'Tiger Temple' to keep its big cats for now

[thesetat2013]

Oh Goodie!

I can sit with spaced out, drugged out big cats again if I so choose - I'll pass windpfffft..

Here is yet another example of how people don't understand the real issues surrounding the temple.....they seem to obsess with the unproven allegations of drugging, which even if true are only a side issue compared to the breeding, containing and exhibiting of the tigers.

As yet we don't even know for sure that the place will continue to run as if nothing had happened.

Well the way I see it is that nobody cared to test them to know for sure. Imagine the repercussions if it came to light monks were doing that.

I also imagine Siegfried and Roy's tigers. Even after raising them as babies, sleeping with them in their own bed, daily training with them for years and years. They still got attacked by these animals. So how are the monks preventing this from happening?

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

Buddhists, and monks no less, are fighting because they want to keep their "revenue generating" scam going? On how many levels does this go against their core beliefs?

I thought one of the main teaching of Buddha was to do away with worldly possessions and not covet money?

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! As are the leaders of most religions. Scammers and parasites, nothing less.

How much are these agencies getting paid to back down?

[jabis]

Actually I was more worried about a situation that 147 animals were going 'nowhere' than this place where they're at least fed. You can't just release a hundred and fifty cats out into the wild when they're somewhat domesticated - and zilch room in zoos and big cat animal shelters - believe you me it isn't peanuts to feed one of those magnificant animals - neither more than hundred of them.

There aren't enough wildlife sanctuaries here to handle the bulk, so on behalf of those tigers - I consider this a voice of reason - even with the harsh abuse that would need to be addressed.

[Godders]

Yet another nail in the coffin of "Thai-style" Buddhism.

[webfact]

Showdown expected at Tiger Temple today



BANGKOK: -- Showdown is expected today between the Tiger Temple and the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation when the latter announces it will take all the 146 tigers out to new homes for care.

But the abbot of Tiger Temple also declares no tiger will be allowed to be taken out unless a committee is appointed to study whether it will be an advantage or disadvantage for the tigers.

The abbot also dismissed allegation made by some officials that the Tiger Temple or officially called Wat Pa Luang Ta Maha Bua in Kanchanaburi engaged in wildlife trafficking.

He said the temple was not in any way connected to illicit wildlife trade and will be presenting evidence to fight the case after three tigers under its care was reported to go missing and accusation emerging that the temple engaged in wildlife trafficking.

The abbot stated that he would not permit the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation to move the animals from the temple.

But authorities said they have evidence to prove three tigers were missing from the temple care.

The evidence was certification made on February 12 of this year after authorities from the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation accompanied by veterinarian Dr. Somchai Wisetmongkolchai made an inspection of the number of tigers that were under the care at the ‘Tiger Temple’ in Kanchanaburi province.

They discovered that all the 143 tigers were accounted for and the veterinarian had signed the document certifying his approval.

The documents also contained bills for 6,000 Baht/month for food and milk that were signed by Dr. Somchai.

These documents will be the key evidence which attorneys representing the department will be presenting in the case of the missing tigers.

But the temple representative argued that if there was any felony committed then the veterinarian would have knowledge in the matter as all the documents contain his signature.

The deputy chairman of the Wat Pa Luang Ta Maha Bua Foundation stated that the temple has been accused of being involved with illegal wildlife trade but asserted that the three tigers were not missing but still in temple grounds.

Furthermore, he stated that Dr. Somchai was the one who implanted the tracking chips on all the tigers and was also coordinating with the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation authorities. Thus if the three tigers went missing the veterinarian would be the first to know about it.

“If the animals went missing then the vet would be the first suspect as he was directly responsible for the animals,” he said.

But the veterinarian however insists that he had nothing to gain from the missing animals but data from the chips indicate that the animals were nowhere in the temple.

This is further corroborated by closed-circuit TV footage that shows a vehicle arriving at the temple to transport the animals. Investigation has also discovered that several tigers had been disemboweled at an establishment located just 10 kilometers from the temple.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/showdown-expected-at-tiger-temple-today


-- Thai PBS 2015-04-24

[elgenon]

In Thailand money talks louder than anything else

Will never change not matter how much malarky Mr P spews

Same same. The American election is being waged by billionaires. It's not just Thailand.

[cumgranosalum]

In Thailand money talks louder than anything else

Will never change not matter how much malarky Mr P spews

Same same. The American election is being waged by billionaires. It's not just Thailand.

Actually no! if you think that graft, nepotism and corruption is the same as elsewhere one has to conclude that you simply have no idea of how endemic it is in the country and permeates EVERY aspect of life, largely with impunity.

You need to get a new more accurate perspective on how it works in Thailand - it is NOT the same as US or elsewhere.

[fdimike]

This place is just a typical tourist rip off. I along with two friends were cycling in the area and stopped to see the temple. They charge admission even if you just want to visit the temple!! We refused to pay and left. The officials who were blowing all the hot air are just nothing more than useless cowards at best.

[harryfrompattaya]

Buddhists, and monks no less, are fighting because they want to keep their "revenue generating" scam going? On how many levels does this go against their core beliefs?

I thought one of the main teaching of Buddha was to do away with worldly possessions and not covet money?

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! As are the leaders of most religions. Scammers and parasites, nothing less.

How much are these agencies getting paid to back down?

You probably don't practice the religion you were born in

In fact I believe your type just hates all reigions

I will pray for your soul

Amen

[bkkheat]

They do have a point, if they are going to be taken, they need to assure that they will be kept better.

I think most people realise the drugging of the tigers was always just a BS rumor made up by people's eye tests who saw them as tired so "They must be drugged".

The tigers need to be taken care of better, but really do you think any other place will do any better?

If they want to take all the tigers away, they need to have a better process, research how they will look after them better, build a sanctuary or something.

Just taking the tigers and putting them in other zoo's etc is basically doing more harm then good.

[circusman]

And just what do you posters suggest the authorities do with almost one and a half hundred tigers ? Put them in more cages? Who will pay for the meat fed ?

[monkey4u]

The 3 that are missing.....I would hazard a guess they are on an extended holiday in China.

They paid for the Abbots trip to the USA

[cumgranosalum]

Buddhists, and monks no less, are fighting because they want to keep their "revenue generating" scam going? On how many levels does this go against their core beliefs?

I thought one of the main teaching of Buddha was to do away with worldly possessions and not covet money?

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! As are the leaders of most religions. Scammers and parasites, nothing less.

How much are these agencies getting paid to back down?

You probably don't practice the religion you were born in

In fact I believe your type just hates all reigions

I will pray for your soul

Amen

Surely you'd be better off praying for the tigers?

[cumgranosalum]

And just what do you posters suggest the authorities do with almost one and a half hundred tigers ? Put them in more cages? Who will pay for the meat fed ?

these problems have been outlined and discussed if you bother to read up on the place. We are not stupid and are quite aware of the problems surrounding the future of the table. I personally have placed my opinion on the pros and cons of taking on the temple and the tigers....just because you haven't read something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[cumgranosalum]

They do have a point, if they are going to be taken, they need to assure that they will be kept better.

I think most people realise the drugging of the tigers was always just a BS rumor made up by people's eye tests who saw them as tired so "They must be drugged".

The tigers need to be taken care of better, but really do you think any other place will do any better?

If they want to take all the tigers away, they need to have a better process, research how they will look after them better, build a sanctuary or something.

Just taking the tigers and putting them in other zoo's etc is basically doing more harm then good.

whereas i had reservations about moving the tigers - in answer to your question " but really do you think any other place will do any better" - the answer is basically YES - they need to be looked after by those who are expert in the sciences of welfare and conservation - not a bunch of amatuers whose expertise is to say the least laking and clouded by a non-scientific belief system

[lavender19]

What more do you expect from a pathetic country like this.

Now if you just happen to have photo of a bottle beer in your menu it's a different story.You feel the full power of the law.

[Srikcir]

Corruption not even the Junta is willing to challenge!

[DennisF]

Buddhists, and monks no less, are fighting because they want to keep their "revenue generating" scam going? On how many levels does this go against their core beliefs?

I thought one of the main teaching of Buddha was to do away with worldly possessions and not covet money?

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! As are the leaders of most religions. Scammers and parasites, nothing less.

How much are these agencies getting paid to back down?

You probably don't practice the religion you were born in

In fact I believe your type just hates all reigions

I will pray for your soul

Amen

Nobody is born into a religion.

Thats stupid.

People choose, are converted or are forced into a religion, not born.

[DennisF]

What more do you expect from a pathetic country like this.

Now if you just happen to have photo of a bottle beer in your menu it's a different story.You feel the full power of the law.

Why does someone always have to have an opportunist dig at Thailand on every topic?

Its feeble, Thailand has many problems, including the Tiger Temple, but every country

in the World has its own issues. Let it be, please.

Edited April 24, 2015 by DennisF

[manarak]

I must say, that doesn't come unexpected.

On the other hand, I didn't quite see the need for the government to shut down that tiger zoo.

Maybe common sense will prevail in the end.

Edited April 24, 2015 by manarak

[Suffinator]

he department said today it faces too much resistance to removing the revenue-generating wildlife from the temple and community.

And once again the Thai authorities clearly state that the well-being of animals and indeed humans comes far behind that of making money.

Frankly ANY tourist of person visiting this or other such establishments are devoid of any humanity. This is one industry that the world should boycott.

[englansi]

Buddhists, and monks no less, are fighting because they want to keep their "revenue generating" scam going? On how many levels does this go against their core beliefs?

I thought one of the main teaching of Buddha was to do away with worldly possessions and not covet money?

What a bunch of hypocrites!!! As are the leaders of most religions. Scammers and parasites, nothing less.

How much are these agencies getting paid to back down?

Most religious leaders? By definition it's all of them. Each and every one, even if they don't turn gullibility into coin directly.

On another note, although I agree with your implied assumption that Buddhism is a religion, it's not supposed to be. Thus passes the glory of the world.

And whilst I lament the temple's tigers, bears, birds etc. plight deeply, it is a mere fraction of the other daily cruelties inflicted on animals everywhere.

Lets face it, if you eat them, you're not that far removed from a similar problem.

[Lone Ranger]

This pathetic backdown is a national disgrace actually an International disgrace !

[Local Drunk]

he department said today it faces too much resistance to removing the revenue-generating wildlife from the temple and community.

And once again the Thai authorities clearly state that the well-being of animals and indeed humans comes far behind that of making money.

Frankly ANY tourist of person visiting this or other such establishments are devoid of any humanity. This is one industry that the world should boycott.

We are online world wide all the time... Let's start hitting the travel websites. If you speak Chinese so much the better.

[Local Drunk]

• TIGER TEMPLE TOUR
• Tiger Temple Tour only Tiger Temple Bangkok
• Tiger Temple Tour and Breakfast with Monks
• Tiger Temple Tour and Floating Market
• Tiger Temple Tour and Floating Market and River Kwai Bridge
• Tiger Temple Tour and Erawan Waterfall
• Tiger Temple and Elephant Ride + Elephant Bathe
• Tiger Temple and Elephant riding Plus River Kwai Bridge

Copyright©2013 Tourism Authority of Thailand License TAT 13/01934

http://www.bangkokbesttravel.com/14394096/floating-market-river-kwai-tiger-temple?gclid=CjwKEAjw0-epBRDOp7f7lOG0zl4SJABxJg9qNiRbtxJCVAcQCeZEWqGjbMRR6KC_xcLWnIbEmU9A5BoCckDw_wcB Ok...

This is a TAT promotion. Little wonder that they want it to continue.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Local Drunk

[Local Drunk]

Here is more...

https://www.facebook.com/tigertempletourkanchanaburi

[Local Drunk]

And just what do you posters suggest the authorities do with almost one and a half hundred tigers ? Put them in more cages? Who will pay for the meat fed ?

I addressed that your point and many others in a different article regarding the tiger's well being. I'm not going to repeat myself at this time.

[webfact]

Dispute flares over controversial Thai temple tigers
AFP

KANCHANABURI: -- Thai wildlife officials began a headcount Friday of nearly 150 tigers kept by monks at a temple which has become the centre of a dispute over the welfare of the animals.

Wat Pha Luang Ta Bua in Thailand's western Kanchanaburi province -- commonly known as "The Tiger Temple" -- has long proved a hit among tourists who flock there to visit the monks and be photographed next to their huge feline pets.

But the authorities say the temple has been keeping the animals without the proper paperwork and have vowed to seize them, sparking standoffs in recent weeks between officials and angry monks blocking their way.

Thailand's Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) said earlier this week it planned to take the animals away on Friday.

But when officials arrived at the temple Friday morning they contented themselves with counting the tigers, most of whom are microchipped, to ascertain how many there are in the sanctuary.

"We have come to check and scan the tigers to see whether the numbers match what we have or not," DNP official Somsak Poopet told AFP, adding his department said they had been told there should be 147 tigers at the temple.

Asked whether the department would consider seizing the animals he replied: "We have that idea but in our actions so far it has not reached that process yet."

Unlike previous visits, the monks did not object to officials entering the sanctuary, an AFP photographer on the scene said.

The tigers were led out in groups of four and tied to a tree to allow officials to scan their microchips.

The headcount was sparked by allegations from a temple vet earlier this week who complained to police that three tigers had recently disappeared from the sanctuary, sparking fears they may have been sold on.

Local animal rights groups have accused the temple of failing to properly look after the tigers.

In February, wildlife officials said they conducted a raid and discovered dozens of hornbills, jackals and Asian bears that were being kept at the sanctuary without the correct permits.

"I think a lot of the people here are very motivated, I think they really love the animals, but they're doing it absolutely the wrong way," Edwin Wiek, founder of Wildlife Friends Foundation Thailand, which has campaigned to have the tigers removed, told AFP.

"Wildlife management, whether that's in the wild or captivity, comes with a lot of knowledge, a lot of rules, a lot of dos and don'ts. And walking around with adult tigers like this, that could snap their mood at any time, is an accident waiting to happen," he added.

Temple authorities were unavailable for comment Friday. But they insist they are a genuine conservation project and have previously denied allegations that they have failed to look after the animals or illegally traffic in them.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2015-04-24

[HerbalEd]

There is no way they can collect 143 tigers and not be involved in some way with illegal trafficking.

[englansi]

he department said today it faces too much resistance to removing the revenue-generating wildlife from the temple and community.

And once again the Thai authorities clearly state that the well-being of animals and indeed humans comes far behind that of making money.

Frankly ANY tourist of person visiting this or other such establishments are devoid of any humanity. This is one industry that the world should boycott.

quote : the well-being of animals and indeed humans comes far behind that of making money

Well yes, in every country in the world, especially the developed world, if it were not the case, burger restaurants would not dominate and there would be a bit more forest left.

The Greatness of a society and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals - Mahatma Gandhi

Going by his world view, Thailand is on par with the best of them.

If killing or exploiting a tiger is morally reprehensible, then those that die or are exploited by the temple condemns it. But I'd be very keen to know the relationship and scale people use for this judgement, given that a handful of deaths and exploitation in one establishment is considered outrageous by the majority of posters in TV. Yet the far worse, and often deliberately cruel, exploitation of other types of animal is considered by most to be positively beneficial in my experience.

quote: This is one industry that the world should boycott.

I agree, but there are many others, all over the world, of which Europe and North America lead by miles.

Burger anyone?

Suffinator, this is not directed specifically at you and I mean no disrespect at all. I just found your comments a useful platform to address what has hitherto been unstated about many other posters moral outrage. Which seems to me to be disproportionate in the scale of things.

I do share most of your opinion though.