UK Settlement Visa

[nerjaron]

This is my first post to the Forum so I hope other users will be patient with me! I have searched Thaivisa for answers to the following questions to no avail and I hope your very knowledgeable community will be able to help me. My questions concern the process of getting my wife to England and the requirements upon us thereafter. We have already compiled a comprehensive portfolio of information with photographs covering the past 7 years. Just for information I am a 66 year old retired UK civil servant and my Thai wife is a 52 year old civil servant who will retire in September and move to the UK in October.

1. A1 English Test. The forum talks about "pass" and "fail" of the 2 elements speaking and listening. My wife took the test 2 weeks ago in Bangkok and her statement of results shows "good" for speaking and "weak" for listening. She will not get a certificate for some weeks and we want to apply for a settlement visa for her to fly to the UK in October. Can I assume that these provisional results (and the "borderline" assessment for reading and writing) constitute a "pass"? Her overall mark was 58/100 which I interpret as a pass at A1 level, but is this correct?

2. Visits home. I anticipate that my wife should have no difficulty in obtaining the settlement visa, we have been a couple for the past 7 years during which time I have visited Bangkok 12 times and lived with my wife for periods of up to 6 weeks, and she has visited the UK 3 times. We have travelled to many countries together, we married in December 2014 in Bangkok. What we want to know is, if she is granted the (30 month?) visa, will she be able to visit her family in Thailand twice a year for periods of up to 1 month and return to the UK without difficulty?

3. NHS Surcharge. I was shocked whilst looking for the above answers to come across information on this charge. It appears to be something new, and the article states that for our situation my wife will have to pay £200 a year towards the NHS whether she uses it or not. There was an online calculator to work out how much she would have to pay as a settlement visa applicant and the sum of £600 was displayed. This has me totally confused, can anyone throw any light on this levy?

Sorry this is so long winded and inevitably I will have further questions, but for now I thank you all in anticipation of your help. Regards,

Ron Nelson (nerjaron)

[7by7]

1) When did she take the test and with whom?

The list of approved providers changed w.e.f. 6/4/15, but she can still use a pass from a provider on the old list provided she took the test before 5/4/15 and applies for her visa before 5/11/15.

See this topic for more details.

If she took her test with the new provider, IELTS, then no documents are required with her application, but she will need to provide her SELT unique reference number on her application form. This can be found on her TRF displayed as UKVI number.

I'm afraid that I don't know whether "good" for speaking and "weak" for listening constitute an A1 pass and can only suggest that your await the certificate, if she gets one, or check with her test provider.

2) Yes, she will be allowed out of the UK during the 30 months residence it takes to qualify for Further Leave to Remain and the following 30 months residence it takes to qualify for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

There is no set maximum time allowed out of the UK during this 5 years, but when applying for FLR and then ILR she will need to show she is a UK resident and has been for the whole period. Difficult to do if one has spent more time out of the UK than in, but I see no problems with 2 visits to Thailand a year of up to 1 month each.

3) The NHS surcharge is £200 p.a., but payable up front for the period of validity of the visa applied for, rounded up to the next 6 months. Her initial grant of entrance will be valid for 33 months, so that is rounded up to 36 months, 3 years; 3 x 200 = 600.

In addition to this, like the visa fee itself UKVI will insist that she pays it in USD at an exchange rate very favourable to them; so the actual Sterling cost will be even higher than this!

See this topic and this one.

When she applies for FLR she will have to pay this surcharge again, but as she will be applying for 30 months she will pay for 30 months, 2.5 years; 2.5 x 200 = £500. As FLR is applied and paid for in the UK, this, like the FLR application fee, will be paid in Sterling.

Edited April 24, 2015 by 7by7

[bigyin]

By the sound of what you say I think she might have taken the KET at Vantage Siam. Is that right? But they stopped doing those before 6 April which is more than 2 weeks before your post. If it was then 58 is A1 and weak and above are acceptable levels for speaking and listening. It is not actually a pass of the test itself but is A1 which is all you care about. You presumably downloaded the statement of results from the internet showing this. The certificate itself is of no real help (if the KET) because it only shows the overall score and not the breakdown between the 4 disciplines. The UKVI website says that they check online with Cambridge School of English as to your results and in the application you need to supply all the information to enable them to check the results but I also sent them the originals plus copies of the statement of results and the certificate. If it was not the KET then like 7by7 I await information as to the test taken.

The only other thing I would say is that settlement visas are not intrinsically difficult to get but they do require a lot of work in terms of gathering all the evidence together for proof of income, accommodation and proof of genuine and subsisting relationship. Also don't forget about the TB certificate (I am sure you haven't) because that hasn't changed.

[nerjaron]

Thank you so much 7by7 and bigyin for this invaluable information. The test was indeed the KET at Vantage Siam on 2nd April just before the change over to the new arrangements (the 2 weeks I quoted was an approximation). The Statement of Results was downloaded and is not very much help! Ning will retire on 30 September and fly back to the UK with me on 13 October. The visa fee seems totally extortionate to me - when I checked recently it was £870, then a few days ago it seemed to have jumped to £945, and if it has to be paid in USD at a rate favourable to them it seems it will cost me the thick end of £1,000. The cost of flights is also a bone of contention, my return flight UK-Bangkok-UK in September/October cost £450, yet Ning's ticket 1 way from Bangkok on the same flight has cost me £570!! This is just a minor rant, the important thing is to get Ning back here to the UK so that we can be together permanently. I think the only thing we need now is the TB certificate which we will arrange when I go across to Bangkok next month. I understand this remains valid for 6 months so will still be in-date on 13 October?

Once again dear friends thank you so much for your help, if there is anything else you can tell me which might make the application process easier to understand I will be happy to hear from you.

[bigyin]

Believe it or not the Statement of Results tells you more than the certificate which only gives the overall score and is really not of any value to the ECO. The Statement of Results is the one which confirms at least weak in speaking and listening. Yes the TB certificate is valid for 6 months and you can apply for the visa within that 6 months. The staff at the TB testing place will tell you that you must travel within 6 months. They are wrong. As long as you apply for the visa within that period you are OK. And yes the airfare going back to the UK is a complete rip off.

[7by7]

And yes the airfare going back to the UK is a complete rip off.

As are the visa fee, the NHS surcharge and the fact they both have to be paid in USD!

Remember, too, that she will have to pay again after 30 months in the UK for her FLR application together with another NHS surcharge.

Then her ILR fee 30 months after that.

These fees are set by the government and are way above the actual cost of processing, and increase each year way above inflation. Don't blame the Tories; Labour started it.

A rip off which most of the electorate know nothing about, and as it doesn't effect them wouldn't care about if they did.

[a99az]

I would advise you take the EU route.

1) It's free

2) they can't say no

3) she will be given residence in the UK as soon as she arrives from the EU with you.

You would have to spend about 12 weeks Sunning your selves in Spain or some other place in the EU could even be in Southern Ireland. Until she gets her residence card there then apply for the family permit (free) to enter UK.

[7by7]

The Surinder Singh route is not quite as simple as the above poster makes out, but it is an option.

An ECJ ruling last year, O and B v The Netherlands, said that not just workers and the self employed but all those exercising any economic treaty right in another EEA state who can benefit from Surinder Singh. This includes those living off independent means such as a pension, so the OP would qualify.

But the UK's regulations still say the British spouse must been a worker or self employed in the other member state!

So, until the UK change their regulations, which they must do eventually, the OP will have to get a job in whatever state they move to for his wife to qualify under the UK's regulations. Unless he fancies engaging in a long battle with the UK government through the courts!

The British government have accepted the other rulings in that judgement, so Surinder Singh applicants now need to show that their British spouse had their primary residence in the other EEA state and that they had transferred the centre of their life there and they and their non EEA national spouse had lived together in that other state for at least three months.

Apply for an EEA family permit, 6. Surinder Singh.

The family permit application and any future permanent residence permit applications are free; but I am not sure about the NHS surcharge.

All the information I can find simply says that all non EEA nationals applying to enter the UK for more than 6 months, or who are in the UK already and are applying to extend their stay, have to pay it. I cannot find anything to say that EEA family permit applicants, which includes Surinder Singh applicants, are exempt; but will be more than happy to discover that they are.

Although all visa and LTR applications are free, one major consideration is, of course, the cost of moving from Thailand to another EEA state and setting up home there, followed by the cost of moving from that state to the UK. This could easily be more expensive than the total cost of a settlement visa, FLR and ILR and moving directly from Thailand to the UK.

As I said at the start of tis post, nerjaron, the Surinder Singh route may very well be a viable option for you; but it is not for everyone and so you need to look at the whole picture and think carefully before deciding whether it is better for you and your wife than the immigration rules route.

N.B. I use 'spouse' throughout this post as that is relevant to the OP; but the rules apply equally to all qualifying family members; for a list see the Apply for an EEA family permit, 6. Surinder Singh UKVI link above..

[nerjaron]

7by7 and a99az I think you may have helped me more than you know!! I had not heard of the "Surinder Singh" route and I would like you to advise me further based on the following information. About 15 years ago I lived in Spain with my former wife and 2 children. We bought a house there, and a couple of years later we bought a second house in another village as a long term restoration project. Unfortunately things went pear shaped with my ex and I returned to the UK with my son, then aged about 9. My daughter (then 16) remained in Spain and moved in with her boyfriend's family. As part of the divorce settlement my ex kept the marital home and I got the second house. Both houses were owned outright by us. The title on both properties was legally changed to reflect that each was owned outright individually by my ex and myself.

My daughter has been resident in Spain for 15 years and now has 2 children of her own with her current partner. I visit Spain 4 or 5 times a year to visit my daughter and her family, and I always live at my own house about 30 miles from my daughter. I am such a frequent visitor that the locals think I live there all year round. It would cost me nothing more than day to day living expenses to live there with Ning for 3 or 4 months to qualify under the Surinder Singh route, EXCEPT that I am a 66 year old retiree and I would not be able to prove work, although I did work in a self employed capacity 15 years ago but I have no documentation to prove this. Ning has visited Spain with me previously and she loves it there especially since the climate is more akin to Thailand (my house is in the hottest part of Spain). In fact we had already discussed living in Spain for 6 months every year over the winter but made no firm plans.

In the light of this new information can you see any way that we could use the Surinder Singh route if I am not working in Spain? I hope I can circumvent the extortionate charges imposed by my own government, this seems to be the perfect solution if we can qualify. As previously stated Ning has already taken the KET test but she has not yet been for the TB examination. Does the Surinder Singh route require these? Thank you again in anticipation of your further help. Ron

Edited April 26, 2015 by nerjaron

[7by7]

The various links in my previous should plus the following should give you most of what you need to know:-

• EEA family permit: EUN02
• especially EUN2.14 Can family members of British citizens qualify for an EEA family permit? (‘Surinder Singh’ cases)
• as amended by this document
• and this Home Office briefing note.

From what you say, it appears that the Surinder Singh route is ideal for you; except that, as can be seen from the above, the British government still, technically illegally, insist that you, the British spouse, need to have been working in Spain prior to your wife submitting the application. That you previously worked in Spain 15 years ago won't effect this; it is your status leading up to the application that counts.

To follow this route you and your wife would need to move to Spain, obtaining whatever visa/residence permit the Spanish require; which would be, as you are an EEA national and not Spanish, free.

Then, once you have lived together there for at least three months your wife applies for a UK EEA Family Permit (see link in my previous) so she can move to the UK with you.

As far as the UK is concerned, following this route means she would not need to pass any English tests nor need a TB certificate; but I don't know about any Spanish requirements.

Also, as said above, when you do move back to the UK, she may still be subject to the NHS surcharge; I'm still looking into that.

I don't wish to pry; but as you have property in Spain and your daughter and grandchildren live there; why not move there instead of to the UK; especially as you say your wife loves it there?

Edited April 26, 2015 by 7by7

[nerjaron]

Thank you 7by7. The main reason I had not considered a permanent move to Spain was that I also have other children (and 1 other grandchild) living here in the UK. In addition Ning has expressed a wish to seek work here - I know from personal experience how difficult it is for a foreigner, even British, to find work in Spain and my wife would have no chance since she doesn't know a word of Spanish and my house is not in a tourist area where such job opportunities would normally be found. Conversely here in NE England there are a number of Thai restaurants where she could work and also for the past 12 months she has studied Thai massage along with her regular job with a view to potentially starting a business here. I am now wondering if, say we did move to Spain and regarded that as our normal country of residence, would Ning be able to accompany me back here for several months at a time or would she need to apply for a visa each time? I will need to look at the residency conditions in Spain, because although I own property, there has never been a requirement for me to become resident but I am registered with the government (land registry etc.) and I have a Spanish NIE number similar to a NI number here. Thank you all again for your help.

[7by7]

If you lived in Spain then she would be able to travel to the UK with you.

But she would need the appropriate entry clearance, which would be an EEA family permit if she qualifies under Surinder Singh; if not then a UK visit visa.

[Richard W]

If you lived in Spain then she would be able to travel to the UK with you.

But she would need the appropriate entry clearance, which would be an EEA family permit if she qualifies under Surinder Singh; if not then a UK visit visa.

Once the McCarthys finally win their case, she will be able to use her Spanish residence card (for a family member of an EEA citizen) instead. I'm confused - news reports imply that they have already won their case. Note that a Spanish *permanent* residence card issued under the EEA regulations will not suffice.

[7by7]

Indeed; for those who may be unaware of the details of this case, see McCarthy and EU family permits.

BritCits have ascertained that the UK is indeed currently reviewing the situation. Unsurprisingly, the UK is taking a very narrow view, as this extract from their correspondence shows:

“The UK is currently considering the implications of this judgment and the case will now return to the High Court for a final determination.

It is important to note that the findings of the CJEU are limited to cases where:

• the EEA national has resided in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and

• the EEA national has exercised Treaty rights in that Member State*, and

• their non-EEA family member has been issued with a residence card under the terms of the Free Movement Directive by that ‘host’ Member State and

• the non-EEA family member is travelling with, or to join, their EEA national relative......."

(*My emphasis, see below)

An important question is whether the UK government will accept that this judgement applies to all non EEA nationals living with an EEA national family member who is exercising a treaty right in a in an EEA state other than that of which the EEA national is a citizen (in this case a Thai living in Spain with her retired British husband); or, as despite the ruling in O and B v The Netherlands they currently do for Surinder Singh applications, only to those whose EEA national family member is employed or self employed in that EEA state.

N.B. The above article is dated 25/1/15, but I can't find anything more recent clarifying the matter.

[nerjaron]

The Surinder Singh route looks more complicated than I first thought. Thank you 7by7 for the link to the McCarthy case, of which I was also unaware. Can you tell me where I could find more information on "Treaty rights" and what indeed are they? As always thanks for your ongoing help and support. I am going to Thailand on Tuesday for 3 weeks and we had considered lodging Ning's application for the visa so that she can return with me on 13 October but now I'm in a quandary - spend an extortionate amount of money now for a visa which may not even be granted, or await the outcome of the EEA national work requirement thing! I know it's a bit early to apply for October but Ning was keen for me to be there to lodge the application with her and after this visit I won't be going again until September, which would be too late. I think she will just have to do it alone - I have already prepared all of the evidence so there really isn't any need for me to be there. Happy days!

[7by7]

Other than the links I have already provided, I can't think of any other which will explain the Surinder Singh judgement, or the McCarthy one, any further; sorry.

Though this article goes into the directive in detail.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of this area can give further advice.

Note that if applying for a UK settlement visa once the visa is issued the holder has 30 days in which to travel to the UK. If they don't, they wont have to start the whole process all over again, but will have to apply, and pay, for a new visa vignette; see this topic.

You can ask in the application that the start date be post dated for up to three months, but should also make this clear in your sponsor's letter as well. If you do this, check the date immediately the passport is received back. This request can be missed, and mistakes cannot be rectified later.

So if planning to move to the UK on 13th October the earliest she should submit her application is 13th June; giving three months for the post dated start, 13th September, plus 30 days max to move to the UK (if my sums are right!).

What the similar system is for a Spanish EEA residence permit, whatever it's called, I don't know.

Edited May 1, 2015 by 7by7