Teaching maths

[MarcelV]

I'm contemplating a move to Thailand. I've been there on holiday four times over the last 16 months, including a two-month one last winter.

Since I don't have the financial freedom to just live the good life in Thailand without working, finding a job should be my first priority.

I am 35 y.o., not a native English speaker, though my command of the language is quite good and studied maths in college. I finished with a BSc degree in the subject. Though I don't have teaching experience in front of a class, I've been a private tutor for years.

How are my chances on the Thai job market, where in the country should I think about looking and how to approach this undertaking?

[aidenai]

I read your profile information. Teaching in Thailand is not for you.

[thesetat2013]

I have seen non native degree holders get jobs teaching for a salary of 25000 baht. Never more than that though and was told it was a good amount in that market. Up to you of you think you could live for that amount. I guess you could without beer and women and travel.

[MarcelV]

For 25k I wouldn't even consider it...

What do all those young non-teaching expats live on? I mean, you cannot expect me to believe that writing a travel blog will earn you much more than that.

Edited April 29, 2015 by MarcelV

[SoilSpoil]

If you're from one of the Western European countries, fluent in English and don't have an 'Allo Allo' accent, and (I hate to say this) are Caucasian, than you will be considered Native Speaker by most schools. Math teachers are very scarce, so you should be able to find an nice paying job (40-50K and up).

Unless you're butt ugly as I am of course, than your helpless and might have to pay contribution.

Edited April 29, 2015 by SoilSpoil

[lostinisaan]

For 25k I wouldn't even consider it...

What do all those young non-teaching expats live on? I mean, you cannot expect me to believe that writing a travel blog will earn you much more than that.

Fools a long time ago, where actually very clever people, who knew how to make people smile and laugh.-

. And got paid a fortune for being a fool.-

That was before your post. Now you're really pretty much shagged.-

[LecheHombre]

In all the schools I have firsthand knowledge of, non-NES Europeans get/got the exact same salary (32,000-35,000 baht) as NES from USA / England / Canada / whatever. Native English Speakers are slightly more likely to get hired, but in general there are lots of jobs out there especially if you aren't tied down to one particular city/town. Schools take what they can get, pretty much.

Very strong accents sometimes limit people to 1 year at a given school, but more often the schools are too apathetic to look for replacements so they can stay on even with "Allo Allo" accents as SoilSpoil put it.

Non-Caucasians (read: black NES or non-NES) face more hurdles/racism in the job hunting stage, but IF they get hired they are generally paid the same amount as everyone else. Only Filipinos get cut-rate salaries, in my experience.

Not saying I agree with or endorse any of those practices in any way, just that they are the way things work here in non-hotspot (ie., outside Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and other places with high farang attractions/populations) Thailand. And 30-35k per month is actually usually a pretty livable wage outside of those same hotspots. Assuming you keep the "shagging Thai bargirls just for fun" to a minimum.

[zeichen]

aedenai is right. your profile and your avatar are a disgrace. Please don't come to teach so you can extend your sexpat holiday. Don't talk about bargirls at work with other teachers. Don't show off your hookers on the back of your motorcycle near where you work. If you are just young and stupid and thought that was funny on your profile is one thing but remember teaching is a respected position here.

If you are actually interested in teaching, then get some actual experience or at the very least a teacher's license in your home country.

In larger cities 30-40k is standard rates for teachers. Less in the rural areas or for government positions. You could probably get positions either in bilingual or english programs. You won't always be paid less as a non native, but will be harder to find positions.

Whoever said that you can easily earn 40-50k is either totally unaware of the Thai system or is a recruiter trying to snare you.

40-50k jobs are rare and usually only for those with experience and or qualifications. Someone fresh off the boat with only a math degree and no real experience will find it hard to get higher paid jobs.

Knowing maths and teaching it are totally different things.

Check out ajarn dot com website for jobs. You can see what they pay. 90% will say native speaker only though.

As for writing travel blogs, very popular ones can earn a very good living even by western standards.

[SheungWan]

Career-wise, 35 years old without an established career is a very dangerous age Cynthia as the saying goes. There is a a short window to sort oneself out before the dreaded 40 descends and employers look upon one as a potential lost cause. The big plus on the OP's side is that he has a maths degree. Are we talking a good grade or an 'average' grade? One pathway out is to get proper teaching certification in the UK where there is always a demand for maths teachers in schools. Get your feet established there and leave Thailand to the occasional holiday, or better still leave it until you hit retirement.

[MarcelV]

I'm from The Netherlands and caucasian. My grades weren't that great, but I did get my bachelor's degree. I doubt any future Thai employer would look at my grades. Most times a bachelor (in whatever subject) should do. Though for teaching maths I think one should at least be a maths graduate. I've read about a Canadian guy who actually teaches maths in Shanghai and frequently travels to Thailand to cycle through the country.

So maybe I should also look at different countries like China. Teaching in the UK is probably impossible since I don't have a teaching license. Note that I don't need to be rich, but hope to earn a little more than just 'survival money'.

And no, I wouldn't need the constant company of (bar) girls. I know holiday-making is not the same as expat-living. Just one or two days of partying per week would be more than sufficient.

On the subject of teaching English as a NNS, I met a Swedish lady in the minibus to Pattaya during my last visit. She was at least my age and had only been working in Minburi as an English teacher for like one year. She had a very thick Swedish accent and still made 40k a month at a prestigious school. So making that kind of money, especially teaching an actual discipline, would be entirely feasible I'd say.

[gk10002000]

teaching "maths"? How about teaching math?. Sorry, but you are starting off on a bad foot with your english. I am an engineer and also hold a MS in Math. While I have contemplated moving to Thailand and teaching, I never found a place, advanced high school, university etc., that offered anything reasonable pay-wise. The majority of what they call Math teaching positions were for elementary level math. I have no desire to work with children <16. I would want to start with serious algebra 2, perhaps basic statistics or some general applied math courses going over polynomials, algebraic equations, trigonometry, etc. I envisioned basic engineering or science preparation stuff, or first or second year college differential and integral calculus. The work conditions just never seemed justifiable. So I am sticking out my engineering contract jobs and just taking longer vacations to Thailand. Ideally I would loved to go there and just tutor and that pays all that I would need and I find it personally very rewarding. But difficult to get proper work permit for that.

[MarcelV]

Maths is proper (British) English, unlike American English 'math'. I know I do have some problems maintaining consistency between one language form or the other, but in Thailand who cares? I'm not planning on teaching college-level English language students anyway.

[zeichen]

She had a very thick Swedish accent and still made 40k a month at a prestigious school. So making that kind of money, especially teaching an actual discipline, would be entirely feasible I'd say.

First of all, she might have a degree in education and many other qualifications that you don't know of. Secondly, How do you know the school is prestigious? 3rd, never trust anyone who tells you what there salary is. No one is fully honest. Most likely she makes 25k and just wanted to brag. In my entire life, I have never disclosed my salary to a stranger in public. I might disclose general salary ranges at my school but just seems strange to talk to a stranger about how much I earn.

The comments about your social life isn't about how much money you spend, it is the fact that you present yourself as a leacherous fool or commonly known as a sexpat. This is not teacher material.

"I doubt any future Thai employer would look at my grades. Most times a bachelor (in whatever subject) should do."

Most schools in Asia require your transcripts. They in fact do care about your GPA and what courses you took. Qualifications, titles, experience is very important. You could be the worst teacher in the world but have a PhD and always get a job.

Without a teacher's license or a degree in education, you have no chance of higher paid jobs in China. Most countries that pay well demand a lot more.

I love how you come here and ask a question, get an answer and then debate with us telling us that we are wrong and that you can earn a lot. Please at the very least do a job search on ajarn, or look at the website of any big named school and see for yourself. You have nothing to offer. You have no teaching degree, no experience, no training.

Yes, you will eventually find work, yes you will most likely be fired or quit in less than 1 year, no you will not earn more than 40k baht for your first job.

[gk10002000]

Maths is proper (British) English, unlike American English 'math'. I know I do have some problems maintaining consistency between one language form or the other, but in Thailand who cares? I'm not planning on teaching college-level English language students anyway.

Fair enough.

Thanks

[gk10002000]

For 25k I wouldn't even consider it...

What do all those young non-teaching expats live on? I mean, you cannot expect me to believe that writing a travel blog will earn you much more than that.

You hit the nail on the head. Most probably don't earn enough to live comfortably or even reasonably. I know one or two that very quickly went to what many here call survival mode. Sharing a studio with a room mate. Nothing wrong with that, it can get your rent down to 3000 baht a month or less. But the studios are small They give it a try, spend their savings, then the funds their parents are willing to send them stops. Many are not staying on proper visas. Some turn to not so good means to earn money, drug dealing etc. Some, and I expect many are not maintaining any proper health insurance.

[DavisH]

teaching "maths"? How about teaching math?. Sorry, but you are starting off on a bad foot with your english. I am an engineer and also hold a MS in Math. While I have contemplated moving to Thailand and teaching, I never found a place, advanced high school, university etc., that offered anything reasonable pay-wise. The majority of what they call Math teaching positions were for elementary level math. I have no desire to work with children <16. I would want to start with serious algebra 2, perhaps basic statistics or some general applied math courses going over polynomials, algebraic equations, trigonometry, etc. I envisioned basic engineering or science preparation stuff, or first or second year college differential and integral calculus. The work conditions just never seemed justifiable. So I am sticking out my engineering contract jobs and just taking longer vacations to Thailand. Ideally I would loved to go there and just tutor and that pays all that I would need and I find it personally very rewarding. But difficult to get proper work permit for that.

Demand for math/s teaching positions is high, especially in English Programs, salary generally 40-100K a month or so. Teaching experience and qualifications are looked upon favourably. Look at MUIDS, Assumption, BCC, etc. They usually advertise on ajarn.com and anyone contemplating getting a job at this time of year better pull their finger out. I start back to school next week, and students mid-month. Plenty of high level maths to be taught to the upper grades. Just look at a m4-m6 Thai entrance book, found in all bookshops, for an idea of what is taught.

[zeichen]

"You hit the nail on the head. Most probably don't earn enough to live comfortably or even reasonably. I know one or two that very quickly went to what many here call survival mode."

For someone who has never taught in Thailand, I don't know where you get your 2nd or 3rd hand information but you already have shown yourself as ignorant by posting your math/ maths comment.

Take advice from a troll with caution.

Davis, don't waste your breath giving gk any suggestions. He doesn't care about teaching, he is just trolling.

"I am not looking for better paying jobs in Thailand." he has no interest in finding teaching positions, he just is trolling.

[DavisH]

teaching "maths"? How about teaching math?. Sorry, but you are starting off on a bad foot with your english. I am an engineer and also hold a MS in Math. While I have contemplated moving to Thailand and teaching, I never found a place, advanced high school, university etc., that offered anything reasonable pay-wise. The majority of what they call Math teaching positions were for elementary level math. I have no desire to work with children <16. I would want to start with serious algebra 2, perhaps basic statistics or some general applied math courses going over polynomials, algebraic equations, trigonometry, etc. I envisioned basic engineering or science preparation stuff, or first or second year college differential and integral calculus. The work conditions just never seemed justifiable. So I am sticking out my engineering contract jobs and just taking longer vacations to Thailand. Ideally I would loved to go there and just tutor and that pays all that I would need and I find it personally very rewarding. But difficult to get proper work permit for that.

...and bear in mind, Thailand does not allow calculators in their entrance exams. So kids have to be able to do the work without them. Mind you, I work in an EP so I don't give a rats about their Thai entrance exams. If they want to study for those, they can do it outside of school hours (which many do, anyway). I use calculators and teach more in line with what would be taught in regular western school, while following the Thai curriculum (which is ok, in my opinion). Because I don't use calculators, I don't teach 'calculation based' work. Kids here seem to spend an inordinate amount of time doing calculations which are much more easily done on a calculator. Unfortunately, the Thai mindset is that doing calculations IS mathematics, which it is not.

[aidenai]

I'm from The Netherlands and caucasian. My grades weren't that great, but I did get my bachelor's degree.

If your degree is not from one of the universities below you won't be able to work in basic education schools that fall under The Teachers' Council of Thailand. They follow the accreditation policy from the Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC). I know of Dutch teachers with a bachelor degree from Dutch Higher Education Institutions (HBO-instellingen) and were refused a TCT Provisional Teaching Permit.

COUNTRY_TH COUNTRY_EN INSTITUTE 1 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS DELFT UNIVERSITY OF TECHONLOGY 2 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITEIT VAN AMSTERDAM 3 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS VRIJE UNIVERSITEIT AMSTERDAM 4 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF TWENTE 5 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS WAGENINGEN AGRICULTURAL UNIVERSITY 6 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF NIJMEGEN 7 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF LIMBURG 8 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF GRONINGEN 9 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS TILBURG UNIVERSITY 10 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS LEIDEN UNIVERSITY 11 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF SOCIAL STUDIES, ERASMUS UNIVERSITY ROTTERDAM 12 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS EINDHOVEN UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY 13 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UTRECHT UNIVERSITY 14 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR INFRASTRUCTURAL, HYDRAULIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING 15 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS ERASMUS UNIVERSITY ROTTERDAM 16 เนเธอร์แลนด์ Netherlands Maastricht University 17 เนเธอร์แลนด์ Netherlands International Institute for Aerospace Survey and Earth Observation

Edited April 30, 2015 by aidenai

[SlyAnimal]

Generally, as a Non Native English Speaker you'd probably be stuck in the 25-30k salary bracket, but with a maths degree, you're probably more looking at 25k - 35k, maybe more once you get some more teaching experience (Even getting 35k for your first job would be pretty amazing without prior teaching experience).

[SheungWan]

I'm from The Netherlands and caucasian. My grades weren't that great, but I did get my bachelor's degree. I doubt any future Thai employer would look at my grades. Most times a bachelor (in whatever subject) should do. Though for teaching maths I think one should at least be a maths graduate. I've read about a Canadian guy who actually teaches maths in Shanghai and frequently travels to Thailand to cycle through the country.

So maybe I should also look at different countries like China. Teaching in the UK is probably impossible since I don't have a teaching license. Note that I don't need to be rich, but hope to earn a little more than just 'survival money'.

And no, I wouldn't need the constant company of (bar) girls. I know holiday-making is not the same as expat-living. Just one or two days of partying per week would be more than sufficient.

On the subject of teaching English as a NNS, I met a Swedish lady in the minibus to Pattaya during my last visit. She was at least my age and had only been working in Minburi as an English teacher for like one year. She had a very thick Swedish accent and still made 40k a month at a prestigious school. So making that kind of money, especially teaching an actual discipline, would be entirely feasible I'd say.

My suggestion was for you to go to the UK (or Netherlands would do) to obtain teaching certification. From a career perspective if you only achieved a pass grade in your BA then you should be in CV repair mode and tidy up that poor pass with a decent post-grad qualification followed by maybe a couple of years of teaching experience in either UK or Netherlands. Ideally doing a P/T Masters while you are working might also be a good idea. And maybe learn some Mandarin. In short you should prepare the ground for setting forth suitably armed seeking overseas positions. Just because some Thai institutions might give you a job paying 1000 baht a day is no way to spend the next few years at your age unless you want to climb into a dead-end hole and continue digging.

Edited April 30, 2015 by SheungWan

[MarcelV]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I'm from The Netherlands and caucasian. My grades weren't that great, but I did get my bachelor's degree.

If your degree is not from one of the universities below you won't be able to work in basic education schools that fall under The Teachers' Council of Thailand. They follow the accreditation policy from the Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC). I know of Dutch teachers with a bachelor degree from Dutch Higher Education Institutions (HBO-instellingen) and were refused a TCT Provisional Teaching Permit.

COUNTRY_TH COUNTRY_EN INSTITUTE 1 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS DELFT UNIVERSITY OF TECHONLOGY 2 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITEIT VAN AMSTERDAM 3 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS VRIJE UNIVERSITEIT AMSTERDAM 4 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF TWENTE 5 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS WAGENINGEN AGRICULTURAL UNIVERSITY 6 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF NIJMEGEN 7 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF LIMBURG 8 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UNIVERSITY OF GRONINGEN 9 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS TILBURG UNIVERSITY 10 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS LEIDEN UNIVERSITY 11 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF SOCIAL STUDIES, ERASMUS UNIVERSITY ROTTERDAM 12 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS EINDHOVEN UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY 13 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS UTRECHT UNIVERSITY 14 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR INFRASTRUCTURAL, HYDRAULIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING 15 เนเธอร์แลนด์ NETHERLANDS ERASMUS UNIVERSITY ROTTERDAM 16 เนเธอร์แลนด์ Netherlands Maastricht University 17 เนเธอร์แลนด์ Netherlands International Institute for Aerospace Survey and Earth Observation

My degree is from one of the listed universities.

Generally, as a Non Native English Speaker you'd probably be stuck in the 25-30k salary bracket, but with a maths degree, you're probably more looking at 25k - 35k, maybe more once you get some more teaching experience (Even getting 35k for your first job would be pretty amazing without prior teaching experience).

Would it help to know some government officials? I asked friends, high-ranking officials working for the local Thai government in Bangkok and Narathiwat if they knew of any positions and told them I could use their help.

I'm from The Netherlands and caucasian. My grades weren't that great, but I did get my bachelor's degree. I doubt any future Thai employer would look at my grades. Most times a bachelor (in whatever subject) should do. Though for teaching maths I think one should at least be a maths graduate. I've read about a Canadian guy who actually teaches maths in Shanghai and frequently travels to Thailand to cycle through the country.

So maybe I should also look at different countries like China. Teaching in the UK is probably impossible since I don't have a teaching license. Note that I don't need to be rich, but hope to earn a little more than just 'survival money'.

And no, I wouldn't need the constant company of (bar) girls. I know holiday-making is not the same as expat-living. Just one or two days of partying per week would be more than sufficient.

On the subject of teaching English as a NNS, I met a Swedish lady in the minibus to Pattaya during my last visit. She was at least my age and had only been working in Minburi as an English teacher for like one year. She had a very thick Swedish accent and still made 40k a month at a prestigious school. So making that kind of money, especially teaching an actual discipline, would be entirely feasible I'd say.

My suggestion was for you to go to the UK (or Netherlands would do) to obtain teaching certification. From a career perspective if you only achieved a pass grade in your BA then you should be in CV repair mode and tidy up that poor pass with a decent post-grad qualification followed by maybe a couple of years of teaching experience in either UK or Netherlands. Ideally doing a P/T Masters while you are working might also be a good idea. And maybe learn some Mandarin. In short you should prepare the ground for setting forth suitably armed seeking overseas positions. Just because some Thai institutions might give you a job paying 1000 baht a day is no way to spend the next few years at your age unless you want to climb into a dead-end hole and continue digging.

Can't I make a career in Thailand? I'm still reasonably young and would rather live the rest of my life under the Thai sun than be stuck in the miserable environment at home. Once I'd feel happy in my Thai job, which I probably would, I know I'd be very loyal to my employer and not looking to job-hop every few years. I don't mind starting on a low salary, as long as there are career options upon building my work experience in Thailand.

Also, it is noteworthy that I'm used to having a low income. For the last 6 years my monthly net salary has been below the 1000 euro mark, saving up every last cent for my Thai holidays. A 30-35k income in baht would not feel like being poor. I know Bangkok is expensive, but I could just as easily work and live in Sakon Nakhon or Narathiwat.

Edited April 30, 2015 by MarcelV

[zeichen]

Take the plunge. If it doesn't work out, you can do 99% of other teachers do and just leave.

Personally, I think it would be silly to come to a foreign country with plans to live permanently and do a job permanently without qualifications or experience. You might hate teaching after a few months. Getting an advanced degree in Education first or at the very least a teacher's license and some experience would be advantageous.

"I asked friends, high-ranking officials working for the local Thai government" (cough cough)

Yes, contacts will often aid you in getting a job if they know the right people. Thailand is built on reputations and contacts.

"For 25k I wouldn't even consider it..." "A 30-35k income in baht would not feel like being poor."

So for 5-10k baht more you would consider it. LOL.

". I don't mind starting on a low salary, as long as there are career options upon building my work experience in Thailand."

30-35k isn't a low salary for locals.

The problem is that there won't be advancement for positions though. You could work 10 years and still be around the same income level. Without a degree in education or a teacher's license you will only be able to teach for a few years anyway. You will never be qualified for the better positions nor will be able to move upward. The best you can and will do is work at the same level until you get burnt out.

Salaries for teaching positions are actually 20-30% lower than they were 10 years ago. 40k was the standard rate now it is 30-35k. One job I worked at was paying 45k baht a month for new teachers 15 years ago and last year they start their teachers at 32k with only a 500 baht a month raise per year.

Just come over and look for jobs next year. Bring at least 5k Euros with you for start up and adjustment. Jobs for the new semester are pretty much filled or getting filled the next 2 weeks. You can find jobs in the off times but they are rare. The best time to look is Feb-April. In October positions open up also but not as many.

[crickets]

If u r black u migght have a problem getting a job. If not u will be ok.

[MarcelV]

Only a Filipino/Filipina would use the word "maths" in the singular form. You can teach mathematics or math, but you can't teach "maths."

I'll bet the room 10,000 baht Maricel is a Filipina.

Can you give me the 10,000 baht? I am Dutch, not Philippino, thank you.

[rijb]

Math as an autonomous term for mathematics came first to the United States, in 1890. (Americans were using math. as a standard abbrev. as early as 1818, when War Secretary John C. Calhoun referred to a man named Davies, an “ass. prof. maths.,” in a letter. There is also an entirely different math, from Old English, that refers to mowing.) The British maths cropped up in 1911, and both terms leapt in usage for their respective countries during the second half of the 20th century.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/12/08/math_versus_maths_how_americans_and_brits_deploy_the_collective_noun.html

[Argus Tuft]

Only a Filipino/Filipina would use the word "maths" in the singular form. You can teach mathematics or math, but you can't teach "maths."

I'll bet the room 10,000 baht Maricel is a Filipina.

And I'll bet the room you're from the rough area of North America.

"Maths" is also the usual usage in Australia, UK etc for starters - not 'math'

In the Philippines they would generally use 'math' - as they have a more Americanized english.

The world is bigger than you appear to appreciate.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Argus Tuft

[Water Buffalo]

Your best bet is teaching maths at international school or a school with an English Program. Forget teaching English, if you aren't a native speaker, which is in fashion here, your options are limited.

Since, you have no teaching experience you may have to accept a slightly lesser salary, but it'll be more than you would get teaching English as a non-native speaker.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Water Buffalo