Thai court grants Koh Tao evidence review for pair accused of Brit murders

[webfact]

Thailand Orders DNA Verification in British Backpacker Murders

A Thai court has ordered independent verification of DNA and other physical evidence that allegedly links Burmese migrant workers to the murder of two British tourists. Lawyers of the suspects say the move could help ensure a fair trial.

A Koh Samui court made the ruling, finding that Thailand’s Central Institute of Forensic Science should be granted permission to retest the DNA samples that allegedly links the suspects to the murders of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge. The institute will also re-examine the physical evidence, which includes a shirt that one of the suspects wore.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/821637-thailand-orders-dna-verification-in-british-backpacker-murders/

[harrycallahan]

We haven't even reliably heard the source of the DNA. Too much blind faith in 'DNA' - look, they match! - leaves the door open for misapplication.

[oneday]

"...in a case that tarnished Thailand's image as a tourist haven..."

...and this is the problem with all this. It's of more concern to the Thai government that its image was TARNISHED, rather than the fact two young people in the prime of their life were brutally murdered.

[IamNoone88]

There will be implications for the BIB should the defense team show that the two ere in fact innocent. How they get will out of that will be interesting as the ramifications internally and then for the search of suspects at large will open up a whole new can of worms.Watch this space.

[RT555]

I don't think the UK police seen any real evidence. By the time they got there, the police had;

1) a paper that says the DNA from the 2 Burmese matches.

2) the Burmese confessed

3) they seen the crime scene

CCTV of headmans son running?

Headmans son not being on campus?

I'm glad I moved from Thailand 2 months ago, what a dump it's becoming.

Just waiting for the economy to crash and take the rest of my cash out.

AND BELIEVE ME IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. The general cannot keep faking it.

Edited May 1, 2015 by RT555

[stephenterry]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

If the original samples are still available they should contain the Caucasian female victim's DNA as well as the Asian perps. That would be difficult to falsify and fool Dr Porntip (who is the named independent verifier of this evidence). Even if there is only a DNA analysis report it should contain enough information to verify two sets of DNA.

What concerns me more is that the RTP are being required to forward their DNA samples - which could have been tampered with - thus it's not necessarily an independent verification from the original source. It really does require an independent and fresh DNA sample from the B2, at the very least.

I'm hoping the defence will insist on this.

[RT555]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

If the original samples are still available they should contain the Caucasian female victim's DNA as well as the Asian perps. That would be difficult to falsify and fool Dr Porntip (who is the named independent verifier of this evidence). Even if there is only a DNA analysis report it should contain enough information to verify two sets of DNA.

What concerns me more is that the RTP are being required to forward their DNA samples - which could have been tampered with - thus it's not necessarily an independent verification from the original source. It really does require an independent and fresh DNA sample from the B2, at the very least.

I'm hoping the defence will insist on this.

Are you kidding? It's a done deal they will be found guilty. Do you think the Thai defense is going to make the Thai prosecutors LOSE FACE?

[ChrisY1]

Is that not standard practice here then ?

Not standard practice.....and probably not a path that Thai lawyers would want to go down.

I think when the police hold the dreaded re-enactment......that goes a long way to show that the defendent is guilty......

[gerry123]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

evening all !!!

[lucky11]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

The UK police (and the victim's families) vindicate my long held thoughts that the 'Burmese' two are, according to the evidence, guilty for the murder and rape of the two victims. They cite strong evidence (obviously the DNA evidence) to implicate them in this heinous crime and I can't wait for the DNA evidence to be re-examined to prove me right!!

[DLang]

Whose original evidence will they be reviewing? the ones that the Thai Police present to them?

This could be absolutely perfect for the authorities. Independent investigators match the accused's DNA to the original DNA taken from the bodies that the Thai authorities gave us to test.

Game.

Set.

Match.

So to speak.

[saminoz]

Could/would the RTP plant DNA into/onto the victims clothes?..is this possible..??

Also will the two youths be able to contest any evidence submitted if they know damn well they're being set-up..?

The RTP planted a bloodied shirt in the luggage of one of the Brits, didn't they?

[lucky11]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

No evidence?

What about the DNA evidence found inside her body. This is ALL that is needed to send these two down!!

In questioning them they incriminated themselves (maybe without realising it). When asked why their DNA was found on the outside of a condom - they freely replied (not under duress or torture) that, and I quote "their DNA couldn't have been found on the condoms as they didn't use them WHEN they violated her"!!

That's the same as accusing somebody of killing someone by saying to them "did you hold the gun in your right hand or left hand"? only for them to reply with "neither, as I killed them with a knife not a gun".

[Linky]

We shouldn't get our hopes up. What are the chances the evidence has been properly preserved? Nil, judging by the RTP performance to date. And any exculpatory evidence will certainly have been "misplaced"

Now this is he reason we should get our hopes up. There is no evidence so none of it has been preserved.

No evidence?

What about the DNA evidence found inside her body. This is ALL that is needed to send these two down!!

In questioning them they incriminated themselves (maybe without realising it). When asked why their DNA was found on the outside of a condom - they freely replied (not under duress or torture) that, and I quote "their DNA couldn't have been found on the condoms as they didn't use them WHEN they violated her"!!

That's the same as accusing somebody of killing someone by saying to them "did you hold the gun in your right hand or left hand"? only for them to reply with "neither, as I killed them with a knife not a gun".

Their quote didnt mention they said they killed them, only that they violated her. So who did wear the condoms? It could have been the condom wearers that killed them.

[wabothai]

Let's just hope the case will be thrown out of court because of some technicality. Nobody will lose face.

Which would mean that he boys cannot be tried again (as far as I know). All the gathered evidence however includes the boys and a new trial will have to include complete new evidence, which there isn't. the family will insist however.

I don't see any reasonable outcome for this case. Certainly the police will not be allowed to be made a laughing stock and major loss of face.

This case is like an octopus and powerful heads will roll.

I wish the boys and their defense strength and succes.

[Linky]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

The UK police (and the victim's families) vindicate my long held thoughts that the 'Burmese' two are, according to the evidence, guilty for the murder and rape of the two victims. They cite strong evidence (obviously the DNA evidence) to implicate them in this heinous crime and I can't wait for the DNA evidence to be re-examined to prove me right!!

Yes proving you right is much more important than anything. Jeez some people...are you 10?

[Lovekorat]

How could they refuse independent analysis?

If they had it would have implicated them firstly in a conspiracy to conceal evidence and secondly that the evidence is not accurate and they knew that. But there may be another reason they so readily agreed to defense analysis.

There are certain rules that apply in most countries with a competent judicial system that refer to the collection, verification and storage of DNA evidence.

It is often verified and then independently verified and stored in a secure location with often more than one example as a safeguard against defence claims of malpractice.

So the question is has that been done?

Or has it been tampered with?

And further is it the actual correct DNA in the first place. These things can be switched for convenience.

For instance in the death of Diana it has been claimed that Henri Paul's blood sample was switched to confirm the claims he was drunk even though CCTV footage showed that he appeared quite normal.

It is interesting to consider that as I understand it the boys DNA had been taken previously and no match found, so the defense question has got to be why?

IF it is shown to be a set up then I wonder what the General will do?

Will he go after those who have fixed evidence?

Will he go after the police who investigated?

Will he go after the guilty parties?

He has to doesn't he?

Arrests and prosecutions everywhere ( and not just of the 'red' variety.)

I don't know if they are innocent or guilty. No one on this forum does.

But there have certainly been some very strange and unusual statements by the police and others and a certain inefficiency in evidence collection techniques that may have rendered that evidence Inadmissable.

IF it is shown to be a set up Anybody who has a had a hand in falsifying evidence, assisting the falsification, knew of any falsification, provided assistance to potentially guilty parties, bore false witness, offered or accepted bribes etc., all guilty of perverting the course of justice or worse.

If so I wonder how far this goes up the chain of command?

I wonder if they will be dealt with.

My personal opinion is that something is wrong. The police know it and the prosecutors know it and the only way this can be solved is for the case to be thrown out on a technicality. Thus avoiding a not guilty verdict and the embarrassment to the police and the judicial system with the blame for the 'administrative' failure allocated somewhere else.

Maybe that is the reason defence inspection of the evidence has been permitted to allow a discrepancy to be shown that cannot be answered, thus forcing the case to be thrown out.

In that instance, the boys are released, the police are not challenged, the judiciary were just doing their job and the real murderers get away with it. No one guilty. Case closed until further evidence is produced, which it won't be. Sorry.

The losers?

The boys who if innocent have spent months in jail and Hannah and a David and their families who see no justice. And Thailand itself of course shown to be a mess of incompetence and a potentially very dangerous place.

The winners? The real murderers and their knowing families who may be free to do it again if they haven't already.

I never did see anything about the UK police's report.

If they are found to be irrevocably guilty with sound verified evidence in an impartial trial then let the weight of the law be applied to them.

We will see.

[godden]

Would you or i want our life decided by a Thai court, i don't think so.

[Surasak]

What has me worries about the 'evidence' of the DNA results, was the very short time it took to verify the match. I am not very well versed in these matters but was it not the case that the results were verified within 24hours? If I am wrong please correct me, I was always under the impression it can take betwenn 48 and 72 hours to confirm a match? However, good to see the court is at last allowing the defence access to the 'evidence', if of course it is not contaminated!

[CockneyGit]

There will be implications for the BIB should the defense team show that the two ere in fact innocent. How they get will out of that will be interesting as the ramifications internally and then for the search of suspects at large will open up a whole new can of worms.Watch this space.

Won't happen. If the BiB say you're guilty, the you're guilty!

End of, thanks for coming, nothing to see here, move along now!

[lucky11]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

The UK police (and the victim's families) vindicate my long held thoughts that the 'Burmese' two are, according to the evidence, guilty for the murder and rape of the two victims. They cite strong evidence (obviously the DNA evidence) to implicate them in this heinous crime and I can't wait for the DNA evidence to be re-examined to prove me right!!

Yes proving you right is much more important than anything. Jeez some people...are you 10?

It is not a case of proving myself to be right - I just want justice to be served and if they are guilty then they must face the consequences. Down to the courts to decide now.

ON the matter of whether I am a 10 or not, I can't tell you as I have never asked my wife this!!!

[hawksway]

It would appear that the British Police have leaked their findings to the Victims Families which is unfortunate in that it prejudges the findings against the accused.

[Docno]

I like the fact the family are sure there is a strong case against the boys (Not that they have ever said this). And yet the British police did nothing.

So do they really believe what the Thai police are telling them ? My guess would be not. But when did the Thai ever let a lie get in the way of the truth.

Quote from the Miller family: “From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.”

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html)

[spidermike007]

Good news, well not for the Koh Tao head family thugs

Nobody likes anybody who is above the law. Those clowns on Dark Tao answer to nobody. They are up to no-good.

[Docno]

It would appear that the British Police have leaked their findings to the Victims Families which is unfortunate in that it prejudges the findings against the accused.

Only if you believe that a Thai judge will be influenced by the beliefs of a British family. Having seen a murder investigation close up (friend killed by his wife), I can tell you that this is not uncommon. It's not considered leakage. Just think about it. In the pre-trial 'discovery' process in the west, both sides have to exchange information and evidence, so a defendant and his family will know what evidence is ranged against him (apparently not standard practice in Thailand). So if a defendant and his family gets to know the evidence, you don't think the victim's family should also?

[DLang]

The newbs have far too much faith in the Thai police and judicial system.

There is no police force or judicial system. Only bought power and rule, to decide the outcome that they desire.

[lucky11]

It would appear that the British Police have leaked their findings to the Victims Families which is unfortunate in that it prejudges the findings against the accused.

No it doesn't!! How on earth can their findings (these are the independent investigators that you lot were insisting on, don't forget) relaying to the families that their is strong evidence from what they see to implicate the two Burmese in the murders and rape prejudice the case in any way.

All they have done is confirm that from the evidence they have seen that it does look likely that they are responsible for these killings. Both families now agree with the police's conclusions that there is strong evidence of their guilt.

The families and the UK detectives are not involved in the case at all as they (the police) were there purely as observers. Well, they came, they observed and they concluded that the likelihood of the 2 Burmese being guilty is strong based on the evidence they have seen. We all know about the 'accusations' of torture (as that is all it is) and the RTP botch ups are indisputable - but despite any of this, one thing and one thing only matters and that is that the perpetrators of these crimes are bought to justice and punished accordingly!!

[jackanapes]

this case is getting more farcical every time it is aired allowing reporters to trample all over a murder scene was incomprehensible and it was obvious the police were totally inept in all aspects of this case lets hope justice is seen to be done.

[Muirton]

"I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this—who will count the votes, and how." Said in 1923, quoted in The Memoirs of Stalin's Former Secretary (1992) by Boris Bazhanov

The situation in Thailand is similar. There is "DNA" and then there is "Thai DNA". Who is in charge of Thai DNA produces or manufactures the official DNA "evidence".

[kiwikeith]

And what did the UK police have to say ??

Exactly! what did they see ,or examine ect.

The evidence to be independently examined is probably contaminated.

Would not like to be in those poor boys shoes.