Thai workers still in heavy debt

[Godders]

"The latest survey conducted by the Thai Chamber of Commerce has revealed worrying revelations that 94% of Thai workers remain in heavy debt and of these 60% are unofficial loans."

So pay them wages above and beyond subsistence levels.

You are surely not seriously suggesting that 94 per cent of Thais live on wages which are below subsistence level? This is patently absurd. While there are large numbers of people in this unhappy situation, many are not yet remain up to their necks in debt.

These individuals have enough money for their everyday needs, but not for what were once called the luxuries of life. They make a deliberate choice to live beyond their means by buying the objects of desire - on credit.

In years gone by, when savers were regarded as the backbone of a nation rather than a necessary evil, working people expected to save up for expensive items on their wish list. Today, it seems luxuries - from smart phones and designer goods to cars and even homes - have somehow become indispensible components of Thai "lifestyle", to be acquired immediately whatever the consequences.

This cavalier attitude seems particularly incongruous in the case of a country where the national religion recommends the avoidance of desire as a stepping stone towards a happier life.

Admittedly, material temptation is everywhere, from the luxury shopping malls springing up across the country and TV commercials to the Internet. As I write, an advertisement has popped up on the computer offering me the chance to borrow up to a million baht - without even a joining fee to pay.

Clearly many Thais find such specious offers difficult to resist. Fair enough. But, having irresponsibly sunk into the red to buy their new toys, why should they expect the government to bail them out by raising the minimum wage? This would simply enable these gizmo junkies to borrow even more on the strength of their increased earnings - and saddle the rest of us with having to subsidise their irresponsibility through higher taxes and inflated consumer prices.

If the current administration is serious about reforming Thai society, it needs to impose much stricter legal limits on borrowing and eliminate loan-sharking. The educational curriculum should be revised to inculcate a growing consumer generation with the timeless virtues of old-fashioned thrift and adherence to the Buddhist teachings on the destructive consequences of desire.

With these measures in place, the Kingdom might yet escape death spiral of debt slavery which is destroying so many other nations..

[kimamey]

Nobody with little education can be blamed for not knowing or understanding the rules when borrowing money.

The loaning institutions should have the obligation to have the borrower understand the rules.

Unfortunately they care less, they make money, and make the figures look good.

The loan institutions are to be held responsible for the resulting problems Thailand is in now.

Every loan should be accompanied by a small booklet or folder explaining the rules in a simple way and not some fine print on the contract.

That's partly true but if the loan institutions refuse them they go and get an unofficial loan which is what a lot of these seem to be.

Certainly better education would be a start plus making sure that wages are at a reasonable level.

[kimamey]

The min wage is now 300 baht per day.

Most jobs require the worker to work a 12 hour day to earn that 300 baht.

That comes to 25 baht per hour.......that's about $0.70 usd. / hour

Even if the min wage were to jump to the mentioned 491 baht per day, that would only be about 40 baht per hour.

That's $1.10 usd / hour

Can anyone be expected to live on those wages?

Is is any wonder why so many go into debt, just to survive?

"The min wage is now 300 baht per day."

That's part of the problem right there. Many countries, including my own have minimum wage rules but all that I know of are based on hourly rates not daily. What if you need someone to come into a restaurant for a couple of hours to cover a busy period? Are you going to pay them 300 baht?

The PTP plan to raise the minimum wage was fine and much needed. Unfortunately it looks more like a bribe because of the way it was done. 300 baht sound much better than whatever the hourly rate would have been. It can be got round by just requiring more hours to partly cover the increase. It was also raised too quickly instead of a long term plan to raise wages in a sustainable way. I doubt it was ever intended to make much if any effort to enforce it. It just looked like 'vote for us and you'll get a big rise to 300 baht.' You can't really blame people for wanting that. Of course a sudden rise of that amount will fuel inflation so it gets eroded.

What's needed is a long term plan to raise the minimum wage on an hourly basis and apply it to all workers instead of just Thais so they can't be undercut. Then educate people in as many ways as possible so they understand the consequences of debt. You'll still get problems the same as anywhere else but it should reduce it.

[khunJeroen]

Is this so much different than other countries? How many people in the US drown in debt, buying cars they can not afford and take up study loans never the intention to study since can't go to banks.

Anyhow, many higher educated professional Thais at MNCs make after a few years much more / mth, 100-150K is quite common. In case any study loan they can pay it back quickly. The group that makes 10-30K is only the low educated working class and you see these struggling with debts everywhere.

[Praematura]

My wife's niece has been staying with us for about 3 weeks. I found out about a week ago from my wife as we were in Tesco that the kid needed underwear. She only had two pairs of underwear which I found surprising as her mom gave the kids tablet pcs. [emoji52]

[willyumiii]

My wife's niece has been staying with us for about 3 weeks. I found out about a week ago from my wife as we were in Tesco that the kid needed underwear. She only had two pairs of underwear which I found surprising as her mom gave the kids tablet pcs. [emoji52]

Some here maybe interested in your wife's niece's knickers.

But does it have anything to do with the topic?.

Why would your wife's niece not be your niece as well?

Is she a worker who is heavily in debt?

I am confused!

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed.

[heybuz]

Decent wages might eliminate the need for or many to get into debt.

It will certainly take away the inevitability of it happening.

I'M no economist but higher wages inevetibly bring higher prices and the status quo is mantained,the only way i see is price fixing by the government.

[trogers]

Decent wages might eliminate the need for or many to get into debt.

It will certainly take away the inevitability of it happening.

I'M no economist but higher wages inevetibly bring higher prices and the status quo is mantained,the only way i see is price fixing by the government.

Communist Russia tried that many decades ago, and failed.

[trogers]

My wife's niece has been staying with us for about 3 weeks. I found out about a week ago from my wife as we were in Tesco that the kid needed underwear. She only had two pairs of underwear which I found surprising as her mom gave the kids tablet pcs. [emoji52]

Some here maybe interested in your wife's niece's knickers.

But does it have anything to do with the topic?.

Why would your wife's niece not be your niece as well?

Is she a worker who is heavily in debt?

I am confused!

Read between the lines. How is money acquired through debt spent? Money in hand spent on tablets and not knickers, when the latter is desperately needed.

[hawker9000]

Decent wages might eliminate the need for or many to get into debt.

It will certainly take away the inevitability of it happening.

I'M no economist but higher wages inevetibly bring higher prices and the status quo is mantained,the only way i see is price fixing by the government.

It's all about productivity. Higher wages & welfare benefits simply for the sake of higher wages and more public spending, where the productivity doesn't support it, are counterproductive. Handing out more paper solves absolutely nothing in the long run if there isn't a corresponding increase in goods & services to go along with it Europe and the West are finding this out the hard way, and the worst is very much yet to come (oh, and Greece...).

[Asiantravel]

Thais are little different from other nationalities. The whole world is in debt, not just individuals, but the vast majority of governments, too. Most of the major banks are technically insolvent and would go bankrupt without regular injections of computer-generated digital money from the Fed and the rest of the central banks which control the global money supply.

Don't expect your government to bail you out. Politicians rely on donations the big financial institutions and mega corporations to put them in power and, once elected, serve their sponsors' interests rather those of the electorate.

In effect, we are all debt slaves, living on credit at the will of the money masters who have created so much Monopoly money out of thin air that only around three per cent of the paper cash in circulation is backed by a real asset. With their help, the banks who play pass the parcel with the money they borrow at historically low interest rates, have inflated a bubble comprised of derivatives and other dodgy financial instruments estimated at a quadrillion dollars or more.

When this bursts, as it inevitably must when interest rates eventually rise, not just Thailand will go pop!

just because this hasn't happended YET doesnt mean it wont sooner or later............

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/04/thailands-bubble-economy-is-heading-for-a-1997-style-crash/

[trogers]

Thais are little different from other nationalities. The whole world is in debt, not just individuals, but the vast majority of governments, too. Most of the major banks are technically insolvent and would go bankrupt without regular injections of computer-generated digital money from the Fed and the rest of the central banks which control the global money supply.

Don't expect your government to bail you out. Politicians rely on donations the big financial institutions and mega corporations to put them in power and, once elected, serve their sponsors' interests rather those of the electorate.

In effect, we are all debt slaves, living on credit at the will of the money masters who have created so much Monopoly money out of thin air that only around three per cent of the paper cash in circulation is backed by a real asset. With their help, the banks who play pass the parcel with the money they borrow at historically low interest rates, have inflated a bubble comprised of derivatives and other dodgy financial instruments estimated at a quadrillion dollars or more.

When this bursts, as it inevitably must when interest rates eventually rise, not just Thailand will go pop!

just because this hasn't happended YET doesnt mean it wont sooner or later............

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2013/11/04/thailands-bubble-economy-is-heading-for-a-1997-style-crash/

There is an alternate scenario which has begun. QE and currency devaluation.

[soalbundy]

There are three houses sorry hovels near where I live all with brand spanking new pickups, families eating mama noodles and drinking Lao cao see them at the local shop daily, I cant help thinking possibly their poverty is due to their priorities

Mama noodles ? how dare they display such outrageous opulence and live high on the hog like that !

yeah,and lau kau, turning their noses up at cheap johny walker.

[Bluespunk]

"The latest survey conducted by the Thai Chamber of Commerce has revealed worrying revelations that 94% of Thai workers remain in heavy debt and of these 60% are unofficial loans."

So pay them wages above and beyond subsistence levels.

You are surely not seriously suggesting that 94 per cent of Thais live on wages which are below subsistence level? This is patently absurd. While there are large numbers of people in this unhappy situation, many are not yet remain up to their necks in debt.

These individuals have enough money for their everyday needs, but not for what were once called the luxuries of life. They make a deliberate choice to live beyond their means by buying the objects of desire - on credit.

In years gone by, when savers were regarded as the backbone of a nation rather than a necessary evil, working people expected to save up for expensive items on their wish list. Today, it seems luxuries - from smart phones and designer goods to cars and even homes - have somehow become indispensible components of Thai "lifestyle", to be acquired immediately whatever the consequences.

This cavalier attitude seems particularly incongruous in the case of a country where the national religion recommends the avoidance of desire as a stepping stone towards a happier life.

Admittedly, material temptation is everywhere, from the luxury shopping malls springing up across the country and TV commercials to the Internet. As I write, an advertisement has popped up on the computer offering me the chance to borrow up to a million baht - without even a joining fee to pay.

Clearly many Thais find such specious offers difficult to resist. Fair enough. But, having irresponsibly sunk into the red to buy their new toys, why should they expect the government to bail them out by raising the minimum wage? This would simply enable these gizmo junkies to borrow even more on the strength of their increased earnings - and saddle the rest of us with having to subsidise their irresponsibility through higher taxes and inflated consumer prices.

If the current administration is serious about reforming Thai society, it needs to impose much stricter legal limits on borrowing and eliminate loan-sharking. The educational curriculum should be revised to inculcate a growing consumer generation with the timeless virtues of old-fashioned thrift and adherence to the Buddhist teachings on the destructive consequences of desire.

With these measures in place, the Kingdom might yet escape death spiral of debt slavery which is destroying so many other nations..

The stats are not mine but from the OP and says workers not all Thais, but yes I see your point.

Mine is simply that a lot of those in debt would not be so if wages were at a level way beyond the ones they are at now.

[hawker9000]

"The latest survey conducted by the Thai Chamber of Commerce has revealed worrying revelations that 94% of Thai workers remain in heavy debt and of these 60% are unofficial loans."

So pay them wages above and beyond subsistence levels.

You are surely not seriously suggesting that 94 per cent of Thais live on wages which are below subsistence level? This is patently absurd. While there are large numbers of people in this unhappy situation, many are not yet remain up to their necks in debt.

These individuals have enough money for their everyday needs, but not for what were once called the luxuries of life. They make a deliberate choice to live beyond their means by buying the objects of desire - on credit.

In years gone by, when savers were regarded as the backbone of a nation rather than a necessary evil, working people expected to save up for expensive items on their wish list. Today, it seems luxuries - from smart phones and designer goods to cars and even homes - have somehow become indispensible components of Thai "lifestyle", to be acquired immediately whatever the consequences.

This cavalier attitude seems particularly incongruous in the case of a country where the national religion recommends the avoidance of desire as a stepping stone towards a happier life.

Admittedly, material temptation is everywhere, from the luxury shopping malls springing up across the country and TV commercials to the Internet. As I write, an advertisement has popped up on the computer offering me the chance to borrow up to a million baht - without even a joining fee to pay.

Clearly many Thais find such specious offers difficult to resist. Fair enough. But, having irresponsibly sunk into the red to buy their new toys, why should they expect the government to bail them out by raising the minimum wage? This would simply enable these gizmo junkies to borrow even more on the strength of their increased earnings - and saddle the rest of us with having to subsidise their irresponsibility through higher taxes and inflated consumer prices.

If the current administration is serious about reforming Thai society, it needs to impose much stricter legal limits on borrowing and eliminate loan-sharking. The educational curriculum should be revised to inculcate a growing consumer generation with the timeless virtues of old-fashioned thrift and adherence to the Buddhist teachings on the destructive consequences of desire.

With these measures in place, the Kingdom might yet escape death spiral of debt slavery which is destroying so many other nations..

The stats are not mine but from the OP and says workers not all Thais, but yes I see your point.

Mine is simply that a lot of those in debt would not be so if wages were at a level way beyond the ones they are at now.

Nope. They'd just be even more heavily in debt.

Edited May 4, 2015 by hawker9000

[Bluespunk]

"The latest survey conducted by the Thai Chamber of Commerce has revealed worrying revelations that 94% of Thai workers remain in heavy debt and of these 60% are unofficial loans."

So pay them wages above and beyond subsistence levels.

You are surely not seriously suggesting that 94 per cent of Thais live on wages which are below subsistence level? This is patently absurd. While there are large numbers of people in this unhappy situation, many are not yet remain up to their necks in debt.

These individuals have enough money for their everyday needs, but not for what were once called the luxuries of life. They make a deliberate choice to live beyond their means by buying the objects of desire - on credit.

In years gone by, when savers were regarded as the backbone of a nation rather than a necessary evil, working people expected to save up for expensive items on their wish list. Today, it seems luxuries - from smart phones and designer goods to cars and even homes - have somehow become indispensible components of Thai "lifestyle", to be acquired immediately whatever the consequences.

This cavalier attitude seems particularly incongruous in the case of a country where the national religion recommends the avoidance of desire as a stepping stone towards a happier life.

Admittedly, material temptation is everywhere, from the luxury shopping malls springing up across the country and TV commercials to the Internet. As I write, an advertisement has popped up on the computer offering me the chance to borrow up to a million baht - without even a joining fee to pay.

Clearly many Thais find such specious offers difficult to resist. Fair enough. But, having irresponsibly sunk into the red to buy their new toys, why should they expect the government to bail them out by raising the minimum wage? This would simply enable these gizmo junkies to borrow even more on the strength of their increased earnings - and saddle the rest of us with having to subsidise their irresponsibility through higher taxes and inflated consumer prices.

If the current administration is serious about reforming Thai society, it needs to impose much stricter legal limits on borrowing and eliminate loan-sharking. The educational curriculum should be revised to inculcate a growing consumer generation with the timeless virtues of old-fashioned thrift and adherence to the Buddhist teachings on the destructive consequences of desire.

With these measures in place, the Kingdom might yet escape death spiral of debt slavery which is destroying so many other nations..

The stats are not mine but from the OP and says workers not all Thais, but yes I see your point.

Mine is simply that a lot of those in debt would not be so if wages were at a level way beyond the ones they are at now.

Nope. They'd just be even more heavily in debt.

Think we'll have to disagree there.

[taipeir]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073605/quotes

Mr. Colson: I've seen more of this state's poor cowboys, miners, railroaders and Indians go broke buyin' pickup trucks. The poor people of this state are dope fiends for pickup trucks. As soon's they get ten cents ahead they trade in on a new pickup truck. The families, homesteads, schools, hospitals and happiness of Montana have been sold down the river to buy pickup trucks!... And there's a sickness here worse than alcohol and dope. It is the pickup truck debt! And there's no cure in sight.

[NeverSure]

The stats are not mine but from the OP and says workers not all Thais, but yes I see your point.

Mine is simply that a lot of those in debt would not be so if wages were at a level way beyond the ones they are at now.

Nope. They'd just be even more heavily in debt.

Think we'll have to disagree there.

So, Western countries where people have 10x as much income per capita don't have lot of people heavily in debt for houses, big screen TVs and new SUVs. They pay cash for their smartphones rather than get them on a long term obligated service plan...