US calls for speedy inquiry into Thai mass grave

[ThaiUser]

Yet, again US sticking it's nose into other countries activities; enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard....civil unrest, police shootings,unemployment,etc, etc.

Yet again, America-haters missing no opportunities to take a gratuitous swipe. Relax. The U.S. isn't sending troops ...

"enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard"

Would that have been true during WWII and the Holocaust as well? The U.S. had plenty of domestic problems then, including segregation, rural poverty & hunger, and violent gangsterism... Should it have stayed home & kept quiet? I'm sure Hitler would've like that (Churchill not so much).

There's a point to be made, but there's a fine line between sticking the national nose where it doesn't belong and interfering in other countries' internal affairs, and calling out genuine humanitarian outrages. I think this clearly falls into the latter category. Sometimes national governments must speak up & step up; to insist otherwise just isn't realistic and invites atrocities

.

Bringing WWII and the Holocaust into a discussion is always a point made by someone that tries to avoid the real issues.

What happened in Thailand are criminal offences enacted by criminals which the Thai authorities are investigating and trying to solve. The Holocaust was a state sponsored extermination of a race and of opponents of Hitler’s supreme race complex. The guards in and outside the camps dressed in SS uniforms and made clear who was behind the operation, which can not be said about Thailand where the camps had been hidden in the jungle to avoid detection.

Another point is that after the election of Roosevelt in the US and the New Deal policy the economic situation was getting better and the same applied to Europe. The US supplied the allies in Europe with goods required for the war effort based on the Land Lease agreements and only entered the war in Europe as an active force after Hitler declared war on the US, who must have lost his mind completely because one of his armies had just been wiped out and defeated at Stalingrad.

I agree that there is a very fine line when a foreign governments starts to tell another government what to do and what is expected of it. But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how to solve their crimes and how speedy that should be or raise their voice too loud when it comes to human rights issues.

The fact of the matter is that the people entering the south of Thailand left their home countries and went through Malaysian territory to get into our country. They certainly didn’t enter Malaysia on a tourist visa or transit visa and required support from local people in Malaysia to stay hidden from the authorities there. It would also not be too far fetched to assume that their travel through Malaysian country always happens within a day and it might be quite feasible that on the other side of the border camps exists where these unfortunate people stay before being smuggled across the border.

The question I am having is how much do the Malaysian authorities know and what agencies are involved or is that a question that cannot be asked?

[GinBoy2]

Maybe many on this forum rather than their retort to blame to US for all the ills in the world, or the Oh so tiresome deflection of 'look at the US problems', should focus more on; did cleaning up the deck chair issue or taxi mafia really do anything to address the fundamental structural corruption that bedevils this county?

The uncomfortable truth is that all of this has existed for decades, none of the previous or current 'administrations' have addressed it since it's perpetrated by their own internecine clan. Military, Thaksin, Abbhist, Suthep...dream on if you think any of them are different. Different sides of the same coin.

They all have a vested interest in the status quo

[hawker9000]

Yet, again US sticking it's nose into other countries activities; enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard....civil unrest, police shootings,unemployment,etc, etc.

Yet again, America-haters missing no opportunities to take a gratuitous swipe. Relax. The U.S. isn't sending troops ...

"enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard"

Would that have been true during WWII and the Holocaust as well? The U.S. had plenty of domestic problems then, including segregation, rural poverty & hunger, and violent gangsterism... Should it have stayed home & kept quiet? I'm sure Hitler would've like that (Churchill not so much).

There's a point to be made, but there's a fine line between sticking the national nose where it doesn't belong and interfering in other countries' internal affairs, and calling out genuine humanitarian outrages. I think this clearly falls into the latter category. Sometimes national governments must speak up & step up; to insist otherwise just isn't realistic and invites atrocities

.

Bringing WWII and the Holocaust into a discussion is always a point made by someone that tries to avoid the real issues.

What happened in Thailand are criminal offences enacted by criminals which the Thai authorities are investigating and trying to solve. The Holocaust was a state sponsored extermination of a race and of opponents of Hitler’s supreme race complex. The guards in and outside the camps dressed in SS uniforms and made clear who was behind the operation, which can not be said about Thailand where the camps had been hidden in the jungle to avoid detection.

Another point is that after the election of Roosevelt in the US and the New Deal policy the economic situation was getting better and the same applied to Europe. The US supplied the allies in Europe with goods required for the war effort based on the Land Lease agreements and only entered the war in Europe as an active force after Hitler declared war on the US, who must have lost his mind completely because one of his armies had just been wiped out and defeated at Stalingrad.

I agree that there is a very fine line when a foreign governments starts to tell another government what to do and what is expected of it. But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how to solve their crimes and how speedy that should be or raise their voice too loud when it comes to human rights issues.

The fact of the matter is that the people entering the south of Thailand left their home countries and went through Malaysian territory to get into our country. They certainly didn’t enter Malaysia on a tourist visa or transit visa and required support from local people in Malaysia to stay hidden from the authorities there. It would also not be too far fetched to assume that their travel through Malaysian country always happens within a day and it might be quite feasible that on the other side of the border camps exists where these unfortunate people stay before being smuggled across the border.

The question I am having is how much do the Malaysian authorities know and what agencies are involved or is that a question that cannot be asked?

"But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how ... "

Just a restatement of what eggers had to say.

So that's the real agenda. It's old; it's lame; it's kind o' pathetic where real atrocities have been revealed.

Fact is, decency demands the U.S. step up and do what's appropriate, and not be deterred by simple-minded, knee-jerk, Johnny-one-note America-haters doing what they always do - forever whine & moan about the U.S.

[Nick167]

Boycott all thai seafood products till things really change. This industry preys on the sufferrings of poor thais and migrant workers. Consuming such products brings bad karma and the consumers while supporting such an inhumane industry might get cancer and die slowly and painfully.

[Rod Wallop]

Human trafficking. Thais don't consider those in the mass graves as human

[ThaiUser]

Yet, again US sticking it's nose into other countries activities; enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard....civil unrest, police shootings,unemployment,etc, etc.

Yet again, America-haters missing no opportunities to take a gratuitous swipe. Relax. The U.S. isn't sending troops ...

"enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard"

Would that have been true during WWII and the Holocaust as well? The U.S. had plenty of domestic problems then, including segregation, rural poverty & hunger, and violent gangsterism... Should it have stayed home & kept quiet? I'm sure Hitler would've like that (Churchill not so much).

There's a point to be made, but there's a fine line between sticking the national nose where it doesn't belong and interfering in other countries' internal affairs, and calling out genuine humanitarian outrages. I think this clearly falls into the latter category. Sometimes national governments must speak up & step up; to insist otherwise just isn't realistic and invites atrocities

.

Bringing WWII and the Holocaust into a discussion is always a point made by someone that tries to avoid the real issues.

What happened in Thailand are criminal offences enacted by criminals which the Thai authorities are investigating and trying to solve. The Holocaust was a state sponsored extermination of a race and of opponents of Hitler’s supreme race complex. The guards in and outside the camps dressed in SS uniforms and made clear who was behind the operation, which can not be said about Thailand where the camps had been hidden in the jungle to avoid detection.

Another point is that after the election of Roosevelt in the US and the New Deal policy the economic situation was getting better and the same applied to Europe. The US supplied the allies in Europe with goods required for the war effort based on the Land Lease agreements and only entered the war in Europe as an active force after Hitler declared war on the US, who must have lost his mind completely because one of his armies had just been wiped out and defeated at Stalingrad.

I agree that there is a very fine line when a foreign governments starts to tell another government what to do and what is expected of it. But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how to solve their crimes and how speedy that should be or raise their voice too loud when it comes to human rights issues.

The fact of the matter is that the people entering the south of Thailand left their home countries and went through Malaysian territory to get into our country. They certainly didn’t enter Malaysia on a tourist visa or transit visa and required support from local people in Malaysia to stay hidden from the authorities there. It would also not be too far fetched to assume that their travel through Malaysian country always happens within a day and it might be quite feasible that on the other side of the border camps exists where these unfortunate people stay before being smuggled across the border.

The question I am having is how much do the Malaysian authorities know and what agencies are involved or is that a question that cannot be asked?

"But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how ... "

Just a restatement of what eggers had to say.

So that's the real agenda. It's old; it's lame; it's kind o' pathetic where real atrocities have been revealed.

Fact is, decency demands the U.S. step up and do what's appropriate, and not be deterred by simple-minded, knee-jerk, Johnny-one-note America-haters doing what they always do - forever whine & moan about the U.S.

If you want to see real atrocities just cross the border to Vietnam and visit the village of Son My, Sơn Tịnh District in South Vietnam and generally known as Mỹ Lai. Before you start telling me that this was one incident during that war and that the responsible people had been punished for this please read up on it. Mỹ Lai was not a singularity but hundreds of these places are littered all over South Vietnam with people raped and killed without ever brought to the attention of the public outside of Vietnam.

If one looks at American involvements in conflicts during the last few decades there isn’t a thin line but a large, big read thread that anybody that has eyes to see can follow, showing the decency the US showed when following her own business or geo political interests. The people of Guatemala, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Palestine only to mention a few locations, might hold a different view as the one you support.

The simple minded, knee-jerk, Johnny-one-note America-hater you think I am not only remembers what President Carter said when war reparations were discussed for Vietnam – “The destruction was mutual.” Pointing out that the people of Vietnam didn’t deserve anything. She remembers too what G.W. Bush said when asked what happened if Americans would end up in front of the ICC for war crimes (he refused to ratify the treaties) and that he would free them by the use of force with American troops. The second statement he made shows the American governments attitude when dealing with other governments and was displayed when Bush turned to Tony Blair expressing his view what he thought about a political leader that had a different opinion: “I don’t give a f... what he thinks!” The microphone that had not been switched off giving the world an inside what Bush really was thinking instead of the lies he peddled when in public office.

Read up on the actions of the former heads of the CIA and who fostered the Taliban’s and armed them to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan; who supported the guerrillas in Guatemala and their reputation in killing priests, women and children to achieve their political goal; who supported the roots of the terrorists with money and weapons that turned later into ISIS and the list could go on for a long time.

All that hasn’t turned me into an American hater as you so profound express and I still have friends in the US, some of them have been soldiers and junior officers in Vietnam during the conflict others have been involved in two Iraq wars and their stories about their involvement what was expected of them to do in these countries and how they have been treated when returning home makes a sad story. They too love their country but they have realised that not everything is as black and white as US governments prefer to paint it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by ThaiUser

[ThaiUser]

Maybe many on this forum rather than their retort to blame to US for all the ills in the world, or the Oh so tiresome deflection of 'look at the US problems', should focus more on; did cleaning up the deck chair issue or taxi mafia really do anything to address the fundamental structural corruption that bedevils this county?

The uncomfortable truth is that all of this has existed for decades, none of the previous or current 'administrations' have addressed it since it's perpetrated by their own internecine clan. Military, Thaksin, Abbhist, Suthep...dream on if you think any of them are different. Different sides of the same coin.

They all have a vested interest in the status quo

I fully agree with the second part of your comment that refers to the decade of abuse of laws and that previous governments have failed to take action or even acknowledged these problems and that it is time to do something about it.

But the article refers to the US and what her government expects from the Thai government without noticing the double standard they display when ignoring the own failings that too have decades of history attached to them. The US too has a vested interest in the status quo and that means using steps are not different from steps taken by other governments. The difference is when pointing this out the label of American haters or worse is used to silence a correct observation.

[hawker9000]

Yet again, America-haters missing no opportunities to take a gratuitous swipe. Relax. The U.S. isn't sending troops ...

"enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard"

Would that have been true during WWII and the Holocaust as well? The U.S. had plenty of domestic problems then, including segregation, rural poverty & hunger, and violent gangsterism... Should it have stayed home & kept quiet? I'm sure Hitler would've like that (Churchill not so much).

There's a point to be made, but there's a fine line between sticking the national nose where it doesn't belong and interfering in other countries' internal affairs, and calling out genuine humanitarian outrages. I think this clearly falls into the latter category. Sometimes national governments must speak up & step up; to insist otherwise just isn't realistic and invites atrocities

.

Bringing WWII and the Holocaust into a discussion is always a point made by someone that tries to avoid the real issues.

What happened in Thailand are criminal offences enacted by criminals which the Thai authorities are investigating and trying to solve. The Holocaust was a state sponsored extermination of a race and of opponents of Hitler’s supreme race complex. The guards in and outside the camps dressed in SS uniforms and made clear who was behind the operation, which can not be said about Thailand where the camps had been hidden in the jungle to avoid detection.

Another point is that after the election of Roosevelt in the US and the New Deal policy the economic situation was getting better and the same applied to Europe. The US supplied the allies in Europe with goods required for the war effort based on the Land Lease agreements and only entered the war in Europe as an active force after Hitler declared war on the US, who must have lost his mind completely because one of his armies had just been wiped out and defeated at Stalingrad.

I agree that there is a very fine line when a foreign governments starts to tell another government what to do and what is expected of it. But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how to solve their crimes and how speedy that should be or raise their voice too loud when it comes to human rights issues.

The fact of the matter is that the people entering the south of Thailand left their home countries and went through Malaysian territory to get into our country. They certainly didn’t enter Malaysia on a tourist visa or transit visa and required support from local people in Malaysia to stay hidden from the authorities there. It would also not be too far fetched to assume that their travel through Malaysian country always happens within a day and it might be quite feasible that on the other side of the border camps exists where these unfortunate people stay before being smuggled across the border.

The question I am having is how much do the Malaysian authorities know and what agencies are involved or is that a question that cannot be asked?

"But from my point of view the US is the last country that at this moment in time should lecture other governments how ... "

Just a restatement of what eggers had to say.

So that's the real agenda. It's old; it's lame; it's kind o' pathetic where real atrocities have been revealed.

Fact is, decency demands the U.S. step up and do what's appropriate, and not be deterred by simple-minded, knee-jerk, Johnny-one-note America-haters doing what they always do - forever whine & moan about the U.S.

If you want to see real atrocities just cross the border to Vietnam and visit the village of Son My, Sơn Tịnh District in South Vietnam and generally known as Mỹ Lai. Before you start telling me that this was one incident during that war and that the responsible people had been punished for this please read up on it. Mỹ Lai was not a singularity but hundreds of these places are littered all over South Vietnam with people raped and killed without ever brought to the attention of the public outside of Vietnam.

If one looks at American involvements in conflicts during the last few decades there isn’t a thin line but a large, big read thread that anybody that has eyes to see can follow, showing the decency the US showed when following her own business or geo political interests. The people of Guatemala, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and Palestine only to mention a few locations, might hold a different view as the one you support.

The simple minded, knee-jerk, Johnny-one-note America-hater you think I am not only remembers what President Carter said when war reparations were discussed for Vietnam – “The destruction was mutual.” Pointing out that the people of Vietnam didn’t deserve anything. She remembers too what G.W. Bush said when asked what happened if Americans would end up in front of the ICC for war crimes (he refused to ratify the treaties) and that he would free them by the use of force with American troops. The second statement he made shows the American governments attitude when dealing with other governments and was displayed when Bush turned to Tony Blair expressing his view what he thought about a political leader that had a different opinion: “I don’t give a f... what he thinks!” The microphone that had not been switched off giving the world an inside what Bush really was thinking instead of the lies he peddled when in public office.

Read up on the actions of the former heads of the CIA and who fostered the Taliban’s and armed them to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan; who supported the guerrillas in Guatemala and their reputation in killing priests, women and children to achieve their political goal; who supported the roots of the terrorists with money and weapons that turned later into ISIS and the list could go on for a long time.

All that hasn’t turned me into an American hater as you so profound express and I still have friends in the US, some of them have been soldiers and junior officers in Vietnam during the conflict others have been involved in two Iraq wars and their stories about their involvement what was expected of them to do in these countries and how they have been treated when returning home makes a sad story. They too love their country but they have realised that not everything is as black and white as US governments prefer to paint it.

See, you're off on a bender (again) about all the bad things Americans and/or the American government have ever done, when nobody here, NOBODY (!), said the U.S. is guilt-free or close to it!! ..Instead saying only that the U.S., like every other nation on the planet that aspires to decency, despite its own failings & domestic issues, not only has a right, but indeed a certain obligation, to take a position on atrocities such as these mass graves and who might be responsible for them.

But any excuse to take a free shot. What a pathetic little hobby.

[baboon]

5 lengthy posts on this page alone. Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

Edited May 7, 2015 by baboon

[ThaiUser]

Human trafficking. Thais don't consider those in the mass graves as human

I have just returned to Thailand after a few months in the UK and was upset and horrified when the news about the camp (now the second one) was published.

Do you really believe that all Thais have no feelings or empathy for the victims and believe they are not humans?

[nottocus]

Just read that 38 cops involved in it have been transferred to inactive posts.

Joke of a country.....failed state.

[ThaiUser]

hawker9000 #68

See, you're off on a bender (again) about all the bad things Americans and/or the American government have ever done, when nobody here, NOBODY (!), said the U.S. is guilt-free or close to it!! ..Instead saying only that the U.S., like every other nation on the planet that aspires to decency, despite its own failings & domestic issues, not only has a right, but indeed a certain obligation, to take a position on atrocities such as these mass graves and who might be responsible for them.

But any excuse to take a free shot. What a pathetic little hobby.

The problem I have with your argument is that I can’t see previous or the current US governments to aspire to decency when looking at the actions they have taken or take when following the path of decency you obviously see. In an article that refers to the US telling another nation what they expect to do, I believe one has a right to point that out however pathetic that might appear to you.

[craigt3365]

Human trafficking. Thais don't consider those in the mass graves as human

I have just returned to Thailand after a few months in the UK and was upset and horrified when the news about the camp (now the second one) was published.

Do you really believe that all Thais have no feelings or empathy for the victims and believe they are not humans?

Well put. As with any nation, you need to separate the government from the people. I can only think of a few countries out of the 87 I've visited where I wasn't happy with the locals. Actually, probably only 1.

Most citizens just want to have a good life and take care of the families.

[ThaiUser]

5 lengthy posts on this page alone. Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address I will forward my replies to you for editing purposes and they might fit into the narrow concept of free speech you seem to have.

[baboon]

5 lengthy posts on this page alone. Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address I will forward my replies to you for editing purposes and they might fit into the narrow concept of free speech you seem to have.

You have lost me with your above comment. What do you mean?

[ThaiUser]

5 lengthy posts on this page alone. Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address I will forward my replies to you for editing purposes and they might fit into the narrow concept of free speech you seem to have.

You have lost me with your above comment. What do you mean?

Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address it will allow you to remove from my comments whatever you deem not fit to be published and when you think the complete comment isn’t worth publishing delete it and you got your question answered.

[Old Man River]

This is a disgrace.....the US, Un and The EEC should immediately downgrade Thailand and impose sanctions! There is thai politicians, government officials and thai police involved according to the thai media. Impose sanctions till things change in that country. Also, boycott all thai seafood prodcuts worldwide....better still boycott all thai prodcuts period. enough of talking and reports......

Thailand is a link in the chain. If you support sanctions for Thailand, then assuredly you have to support sanctions for the other involved countries correct?

[impulse]

Just read that 38 cops involved in it have been transferred to inactive posts.

Joke of a country.....failed state.

And in the USA, cops under investigation are suspended with pay. So they won't interfere with the investigation into their own actions. But a suspended cop has plenty of time on his hands (on our nickel and close to home, no less) to interfere.

A cop transferred to an inactive post still has to clock in... and many miles away from the investigation.

I'm not so sure they don't have it right- as long as the transfer isn't the punishment, but just a procedure to prevent interference while facts are divined and the real punishment is decided.

[baboon]

5 lengthy posts on this page alone. Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address I will forward my replies to you for editing purposes and they might fit into the narrow concept of free speech you seem to have.

You have lost me with your above comment. What do you mean?

Who is silencing you, Thaiuser?

If you provide an email address it will allow you to remove from my comments whatever you deem not fit to be published and when you think the complete comment isnt worth publishing delete it and you got your question answered.

I "deem" that having to repost an entire article time and time and time again, especially when one only wishes to make an issue of one small part of the piece, is bloody tedious for the reader, that is all. No need to get your knickers in a twist over your freedom of speech, especially where I am concerned... Edited May 7, 2015 by baboon

[waxon]

Yet, again US sticking it's nose into other countries activities; enough issues for US to fix in it's own backyard....civil unrest, police shootings,unemployment,etc, etc.

Ha ha. TROLL.

[Johnny S]

There´s gonna be a long line at the "hand zink" to wash their dirty hands

Edited May 10, 2015 by Johnny S

[sambum]

Just read that 38 cops involved in it have been transferred to inactive posts.

Joke of a country.....failed state.

And in the USA, cops under investigation are suspended with pay. So they won't interfere with the investigation into their own actions. But a suspended cop has plenty of time on his hands (on our nickel and close to home, no less) to interfere.

A cop transferred to an inactive post still has to clock in... and many miles away from the investigation.

I'm not so sure they don't have it right- as long as the transfer isn't the punishment, but just a procedure to prevent interference while facts are divined and the real punishment is decided.

We are always hearing this same old story/excuse/official line - "transferred to an inactive post"

Have you EVER read an article saying " Police Sgt/ Lieutenant/Colonel/General (Insert Thai name here) who had been transferred to an inactive post on suspicion of (Insert crime here) was today sentenced to x years in jail"?

In my experience - NEVER!