Israel veterans group alleges Israeli misconduct in Gaza war

[arunsakda]

It is hard to find a good bagel west of the Hudson river. Noah's in California is pretty good. Bagel and Bagel in Japan is ok but if not for the toppings same as frozen.

[Jingthing]

It is hard to find a good bagel west of the Hudson river. Noah's in California is pretty good. Bagel and Bagel in Japan is ok but if not for the toppings same as frozen.

Noah's aren't boiled. Don't get me started!

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[Jingthing]

I wouldn't put much stock in that Zionist propaganda you cite.

I'm aware that you put a lot more stack in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories than actual history.

Bonus points for the ad-hominem attack and deft use of the "anti-Semitic" shield in place of an actual argument.

Really in some cases if the shoe fits.

Anyone pushing the Iranian style Zionist entity garbage is definitely an irrational Israel demonizer. As Pres. Obama recently said and I agree anti Zionism is antisemitism.

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Edited May 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

It is hard to find a good bagel west of the Hudson river. Noah's in California is pretty good. Bagel and Bagel in Japan is ok but if not for the toppings same as frozen.

I'm so far west of the Hudson I think I'm actually east...in any case, the best I can get is the Jalapeno-cheese at Au Bon Pain.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I wouldn't put much stock in that Zionist propaganda you cite.

I'm aware that you put a lot more stack in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories than actual history.

Bonus points for the ad-hominem attack and deft use of the "anti-Semitic" shield in place of an actual argument.

Really in some cases if the shoe fits.

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Another expert in the duck and weave ad-hominem attack and deployment of the Shield (Ben-Hur couldn't have done it better).

[Jingthing]

OMG you're not adding anything of value to these issues except Israel demonization trollish inflammatory cliches. Welcome to my ignore list. Life is too short.

I welcome sincere rational critics of Israel policy for discussion here. I count myself among them.

Blatant obsessive Israel demonization ... that I consider a mental illness.

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Edited May 22, 2015 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

OMG you're not adding anything to these issues except Israel demonization inflammatory cliches. Welcome to my ignore list. Life is too short.

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When I don't want to hear or read unpleasant truths, I close my eyes or put my fingers in my ear too...sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss.

Edited May 22, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

[OMGImInPattaya]

I wouldn't put much stock in that Zionist propaganda you cite.

I'm aware that you put a lot more stack in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories than actual history.

Bonus points for the ad-hominem attack and deft use of the "anti-Semitic" shield in place of an actual argument.

Really in some cases if the shoe fits.

Anyone pushing the Iranian style Zionist entity garbage is definitely an irrational Israel demonizer. As Pres. Obama recently said and I agree anti Zionism is antisemitism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well I put more stock in the opinion of the entire world, as expressed through the United Nations, which declared that Zionism is racism, than some politician looking for votes (in Congress) or money.

[OMGImInPattaya]

OMG you're not adding anything of value to these issues except Israel demonization trollish inflammatory cliches. Welcome to my ignore list. Life is too short.

I welcome sincere rational critics of Israel policy for discussion here. I count myself among them.

Blatant obsessive Israel demonization ... that I consider a mental illness.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The problem with Zionists, like all oppressors, is that they cannot see or diagnosis their own pathology. This is to be expected...it was no different with Apartheid South Africa or in the American south. Therefore, it is up to others to point it out to them and hopefully they will voluntarily change or, if necessary, be compelled to do so.

The Zionist lobby also cannot differentiate between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism (or more likely don't want to) for then it is much more difficult for them to play the victim card. It is a historical and contemporary fact that many Jews in fact were/are anti-Zionists. I guess the stock Zionist answer for these Jews is to demonize them and say they too are anti-Semitic or self-hating Jews (the ad-hominem attack). Zionism is a political ideology...and therefore must be judged as such...it has nothing whatsoever to do with any feelings one may have about people of the Jewish faith.

Edited May 22, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

[The manic]

The only people who obsess about Zionism are lefties, neo nazis, judaphobes and moslems. The last group who blame the whole world for their self imposed problems and refuse to take responsibility for their actions current or historical.

[Jingthing]

The only people who obsess about Zionism are lefties, neo nazis, judaphobes and moslems. The last group who blame the whole world for their self imposed problems and refuse to take responsibility for their actions current or historical.

I generally agree but I think you're wrong putting all Muslims in the same boat.

There is a movement now to reform Islam.

That will probably happen someday but clearly not soon enough.

http://www.amazon.com/Heretic-Why-Islam-Needs-Reformation/dp/0062333933

[OMGImInPattaya]

The only people who obsess about Zionism are lefties, neo nazis, judaphobes and moslems. The last group who blame the whole world for their self imposed problems and refuse to take responsibility for their actions current or historical.

Yes, and "lefties" are the only ones who cared about slavery and Jim Crow in America, Apartheid in South Africa, women's rights around the world, human rights, the environment, gay rights and marriage, economic inequality, public education, climate change, indigenous peoples rights, the list goes on and on. The world would be a much darker and more brutal place if it wasn't for the struggle of the left to bring oppression and injustice to light.

And talk about "blaming the victim." There are many problem in the Middle East to be sure, but historical anti-Semitism (a "civilized" European phenomenon) and "self-imposed problems" are not among them. As anyone qualified on the matter will opine, the problems of the Middle East are a legacy of the colonialism of the European powers (with the Zionist entity the most recent manifestation of this) and the meddling in the area by the United States since WWII for the purpose on controlling the areas hydrocarbon resources.

[dexterm]

Any entry in the Guinness Book of Records for religious majority states is irrelevant when you happen to be the previous Palestinian Muslim and Christian majority who had to get displaced to make way for Israel's bid.

The previous Palestinian Muslim and majority started several wars and LOST. THAT is why they were "replaced." What goes around, comes around.

Just because the bully wins, doesn't mean to say his actions are righteous, or that the victim is wrong for resisting.

If you follow the might is right argument to its logical conclusion, then all that IS do (or any other dictator in history) is justified too. We'd have anarchy. That's why we have international law.

This is the 21st century, and Israel cannot behave like Attila the Hun. Israel has signed and ratified the Fourth Geneva Convention which states:

"Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive. [except as an absolute military necessity because they are in a war zone]...Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased."

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Article 49,paragraph 6, of the Fourth Geneva Convention

http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Article.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=77068F12B8857C4DC12563CD0051BDB0

What Israel has done is unequivocally illegal, and shame on the USA for its complicity.

The same goes for its war crimes in the OP. Israel must end its state of denial, face up to the ugly truth about its history and the behavior of the IDF.

Edited May 23, 2015 by dexterm

[JingerBen]

OMG you're not adding anything of value to these issues except Israel demonization trollish inflammatory cliches. Welcome to my ignore list. Life is too short.

I welcome sincere rational critics of Israel policy for discussion here. I count myself among them.

Blatant obsessive Israel demonization ... that I consider a mental illness.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The problem with Zionists, like all oppressors, is that they cannot see or diagnosis their own pathology. This is to be expected...it was no different with Apartheid South Africa or in the American south. Therefore, it is up to others to point it out to them and hopefully they will voluntarily change or, if necessary, be compelled to do so.

The Zionist lobby also cannot differentiate between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism (or more likely don't want to) for then it is much more difficult for them to play the victim card. It is a historical and contemporary fact that many Jews in fact were/are anti-Zionists. I guess the stock Zionist answer for these Jews is to demonize them and say they too are anti-Semitic or self-hating Jews (the ad-hominem attack). Zionism is a political ideology...and therefore must be judged as such...it has nothing whatsoever to do with any feelings one may have about people of the Jewish faith.

That sounds like a good summary - concise and factual with no personal insults or slanderous accusations of racism against those who disagree with you.

The devious propaganda techniques of radical Zionists defending the indefensible can't prevail against the evidence of Israeli war crimes.

Groups like Breaking the Silence, Peace Now, and other moderate Israelis are trying to take their country back from the Likudniks with their agenda of Eretz Israel.

They are beginning to be heard within their own country, and the howling of bloodthirsty jackals won't silence them.

[Ulysses G.]

Any entry in the Guinness Book of Records for religious majority states is irrelevant when you happen to be the previous Palestinian Muslim and Christian majority who had to get displaced to make way for Israel's bid.

The previous Palestinian Muslim and majority started several wars and LOST. THAT is why they were "replaced." What goes around, comes around.

Just because the bully wins, doesn't mean to say his actions are righteous, or that the victim is wrong for resisting.

The Palestinian Arabs started the violence in the first place - when they way outnumbered the Jews - so they are the bullies in the conflict, but considering the number of times they have LOST battles and wars that THEY started, they are not very smart bullies - not very smart at all. In fact, you might say that they have morphed from bullies into crybaby losers, refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. .

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, and "lefties" are the only ones who cared about slavery and Jim Crow in America, Apartheid in South Africa, women's rights around the world, human rights, the environment, gay rights and marriage, economic inequality, public education, climate change, indigenous peoples rights, the list goes on and on.

Please don't try to convince people of such utter stupidity.

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican and the Republican Party was, for a key century, the major American political party that most frequently aligned with the cause of civil rights.

Top Republicans in Congress provided advice, counsel and support that was essential to the development and passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Republicans were much more supportive of the Civil Rights Act than were Democrats. Republican lawmakers gave it 80 percent backing to the democrat's 61 percent.

Most of Israel's most significant peace treaties were the work of right-wing governments.

Apartheid was ended by a conservative government. There are 100s of examples that prove you wrong.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Any entry in the Guinness Book of Records for religious majority states is irrelevant when you happen to be the previous Palestinian Muslim and Christian majority who had to get displaced to make way for Israel's bid.

The previous Palestinian Muslim and majority started several wars and LOST. THAT is why they were "replaced." What goes around, comes around.

Just because the bully wins, doesn't mean to say his actions are righteous, or that the victim is wrong for resisting.

The Palestinian Arabs started the violence in the first place - when they way outnumbered the Jews - so they are the bullies in the conflict, but considering the number of times they have LOST battles and wars that THEY started, they are not very smart bullies - not very smart at all. In fact, you might say that they have morphed from bullies into crybaby losers.

That's because Palestinians had their hands tied by their colonial masters first the Ottomans then the British who killed or exiled Palestinian leaders in the 30s. And Israel now has another big brother ...the USA.

Israel should never have been born, but that's history. Jews are there to stay now.

Best for all concerned if there is compromise acceptable to all sides, so that the next generations can accept the wrongs of the past, look to the future and prosper in peace.

Edited May 23, 2015 by dexterm

[JingerBen]

Any entry in the Guinness Book of Records for religious majority states is irrelevant when you happen to be the previous Palestinian Muslim and Christian majority who had to get displaced to make way for Israel's bid.

The previous Palestinian Muslim and majority started several wars and LOST. THAT is why they were "replaced." What goes around, comes around.

Just because the bully wins, doesn't mean to say his actions are righteous, or that the victim is wrong for resisting.

The Palestinian Arabs started the violence in the first place - when they way outnumbered the Jews - so they are the bullies in the conflict, but considering the number of times they have LOST battles and wars that THEY started, they are not very smart bullies - not very smart at all. In fact, you might say that they have morphed from bullies into crybaby losers.

That's utter nonsense.

The conflict began when Jewish colonists began arriving in Ottoman Palestine, and then British Mandate Palestine in massive numbers.

Land grabs, displacement of the indigenous people, and eventually a campaign of terrorism resulted in the Nakba of 1948.

Since then it has been more or less continual violence turning the whole region into a war zone.

[Ulysses G.]

That's because Palestinians had their hands tied by their colonial masters

Excuses, excuses. The facts are that the Palestinians started the violence and got their asses beat. No one cares what contrived pretext you come up with to excuse it.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Boon Mee]

That's because Palestinians had their hands tied by their colonial masters

Excuses, excuses. The facts are that the Palestinians started the violence and got their asses beat. No one cares what contrived excuses you come up with to excuse it.

That's all the Left has. Excuses for the bad behavior on the part of the Palis.

[Ulysses G.]

The conflict began when Jewish colonists began arriving in Ottoman Palestine

Talk about "nonsense." Learn some history. The conflict began when Jewish colonists began arriving in Ottoman Palestine in very small numbers and Arabs started ATTACKING them. Large numbers of Jews did not begin immigrating until decades later and they were not taking any more crap from Nazis OR Palestinians, who were allies at the time.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Boon Mee]

The conflict began when Jewish colonists began arriving in Ottoman Palestine

Talk about "nonsense." Learn some history. The conflict began when Jewish colonists began arriving in Ottoman Palestine in very small numbers and Arabs started ATTACKING them. Large number of Jews did not begin immigrating until decades later.

And what once was a desert was turned into a Garden.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Yes, and "lefties" are the only ones who cared about slavery and Jim Crow in America, Apartheid in South Africa, women's rights around the world, human rights, the environment, gay rights and marriage, economic inequality, public education, climate change, indigenous peoples rights, the list goes on and on.

Please don't try to convince people of such utter stupidity.

Abraham Lincoln was a Republican and the Republican Party was, for a key century, the major American political party that most frequently aligned with the cause of civil rights.

Top Republicans in Congress provided advice, counsel and support that was essential to the development and passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Republicans were much more supportive of the Civil Rights Act than were Democrats. Republican lawmakers gave it 80 percent backing to the democrat's 61 percent.

Most of Israel's most significant peace treaties were the work of right-wing governments.

Apartheid was ended by a conservative government. There are 100s of examples that prove you wrong.

Wow, you really had to step into the way back machine to come up with that answer. The Republicon party of today is not your great-grandfather's Republican Party. Trying to equate an erudite and self-made educated man like Lincoln with the likes of the dyslexic Baby Bush and a buffoon like Ted Cruz is risible.

[Ulysses G.]

You are the one who went back to slavery and Jim Crow. I presented you with evidence that you are wrong. A simple apology for such a ridiculous claim - "lefties are the only ones who cared" - is in order.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Pakboong]

Any entry in the Guinness Book of Records for religious majority states is irrelevant when you happen to be the previous Palestinian Muslim and Christian majority who had to get displaced to make way for Israel's bid.

The previous Palestinian Muslim and majority started several wars and LOST. THAT is why they were "replaced." What goes around, comes around.

Just because the bully wins, doesn't mean to say his actions are righteous, or that the victim is wrong for resisting.

If you follow the might is right argument to its logical conclusion, then all that IS do (or any other dictator in history) is justified too. We'd have anarchy. That's why we have international law.

This is the 21st century, and Israel cannot behave like Attila the Hun. Israel has signed and ratified the Fourth Geneva Convention which states:

"Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive. [except as an absolute military necessity because they are in a war zone]...Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased."

"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

Article 49,paragraph 6, of the Fourth Geneva Convention

http://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl.nsf/Article.xsp?action=openDocument&documentId=77068F12B8857C4DC12563CD0051BDB0

What Israel has done is unequivocally illegal, and shame on the USA for its complicity.

The same goes for its war crimes in the OP. Israel must end its state of denial, face up to the ugly truth about its history and the behavior of the IDF.

"let’s be honest with ourselves: there was no evidence that Nasser was going to attack; we decided to attack first. " Prime Minister Menachim Begin at the national war college of Israel in July 1982

[Boon Mee]

To Lefties, racism is the court of last resort. To wit:

In an Obama world, racism is everywhere: Obama is nostalgic for “white” Israel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/22/obama-is-nostalgic-for-white-israel/

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you get back on the topic. Presidents from the 1800's have very little if any relevance to this topic, as does much of what is being spewed.

[Jingthing]

To Lefties, racism is the court of last resort. To wit:

In an Obama world, racism is everywhere: Obama is nostalgic for “white” Israel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/22/obama-is-nostalgic-for-white-israel/

I think your comment doesn't really explain the article, but the article is spot on. It is so true that Israel deals with it's unique challenges and it's worth learning about them to look at what Israel has become fairly.

The key to this boiled down -- Israel is a MIDDLE EASTERN country, success in the Eurovision song contest notwithstanding.

As Walter Russell Mead put it, “Israel isn’t an underachieving Denmark; it would be more accurate to say that it is an overachieving Turkey or a miraculously liberal and tolerant Lebanon.”

Edited May 23, 2015 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

Deflecting yet again

You are the one deflecting. You have no problem going off topic to spew some hatred towards the Jewish state.

The JEWISH state!!!!! So now you are saying that only Jews are entitled to live in Israel??????????

Folks. Ring the big bell. I think we have a WINNER for disingenuous question of the week!

HappyZionism.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state

Majority Christian states don't refer to themselves as Christian states, but unlike the Zionists they don't want to expel all the other religions from their territories.

[thaibeachlovers]

You are the one deflecting. You have no problem going off topic to spew some hatred towards the Jewish state.

The JEWISH state!!!!! So now you are saying that only Jews are entitled to live in Israel??????????

Folks. Ring the big bell. I think we have a WINNER for disingenuous question of the week!

HappyZionism.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state

double post

Edited May 23, 2015 by thaibeachlovers