Glyphosate for killing woody brush

[Tapster]

Please can someone tell me a Thai brand of glyphosate weed killer suitable for tough, woody brush.

Alternatively, are Western products easy to get? Roundup, perhaps??

Many thanks.

[GaryB1263]

Roundup probably won't work.

[GaryB1263]

Tordon works. Hack and spray works best on woody plants. You can look in Thailand for Picloram. Picloram is the active ingredient in Tordon.

[weegee]

Tapster....found this out by accident, if you want to try....

Get some (pool) chlorine granules and mix up a real strong brew...spray it on or pore it on and it kills everything...and i mean everything.

Previously, I used to swear by common Diesel. That works too..

[Iamemjay]

Go to any farm supplies shop - its available under many different brands - all 48%, same as Roundup, around 450B for 5 litres. Try using it double strength. If that doesn't do the job, make it triple strength, but I must say I've never had to go beyond double.

[samuijimmy]

Roundup is Glyphosate ....or visa versa

It is only absorbed through the green foliage..... So it is a waste of time spraying on the woody stems... It takes a week or two to work, but on larger plants you may have to spray two or three times....over several months ... (spray responsibly and using the recommended amount.... mixing more to make stronger is not better ) ..... four hours rain free after application and it will work by adsorbing to the roots ....

I have ever heard of Tordon, but read this before even considering using it ....

http://www.pesticide.org/get-the-facts/pesticide-factsheets/factsheets/picloram....

I do not agree with the last poster.... double or tripling the amount ...... written while I was posting....

Edited May 9, 2015 by samuijimmy

[drtreelove]

RoundUp is available, (get RoundUp ProMax if you can, the latest formulation from Monsanto), and so is generic Glyphosate 48%, under that label name. It will work on some woody plants, if applied correctly at right concentration. But other posters are correct, there are other herbicides that are more specific to broadleaf plants.

If you don't know a local farm supply store, you can find some limited products at the big super stores in garden section or home pest control section. Read the label carefully and apply accordingly.

I've never used Picloram, and after just reading a fact sheet I'm not sure I would want to. Triclopyr is the active ingredient in some very effective broadleaf, woody plant control products, like Garlon.

Use of herbicides should be carefully considered, along with alternative weed management strategy, for personal/family safety and environmental, crop contamination concerns. Did you know that glyphosate ties up Calcium and other plant nutrients in the soil? Which is kind of a stupid thing to do, because Calcium is a primary plant need, it leaches from the soil anyway with rain and irrigation, and is often deficient.

What is your land use where these woody unwanted plants are growing? Are you going to grow a crop on this land? After you kill the plants, how will you remove the woody stems and root crowns? If you have to dig them out or hire a tractor, why not just go right to that method and save on labor and chemical costs.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/580254-grasses-glyphosate-48-herbicide-and-ammonium-sulphate/

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/roundup-pro-max-p-1346.html

http://www.pesticide.org/get-the-facts/pesticide-factsheets/factsheets/picloram

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/triclogen.pdf

I just read SamuiJimmy's post, we found the same Picloram fact sheet.

Round Up is a brand name from Monsanto, the active ingredient is glyphosate. It went off patent a few years ago and generic glyphosate products are now available in a multitude of brand names.

If you don't have a large area and a lot of weeds, glyphosate can be painted or sprayed directly on the fresh cut surface of wood stems. Use about 25% active ingredient, ha-sip ha-sip with water and the 48%. Ive used it effectively for years on cut stump treatment after tree removal. If you do it right away the herbicide will be drawn into the cut stump and translocated through the entire root system for a complete kill.

Edited May 9, 2015 by drtreelove

[Tapster]

Cool, thanks for the advice.

Just in bed now. I'll post again at greater length in the morning.

Cheers

[BAYBOY]

There is a tree I think called 'Madua', which grows here in Thailand. My wife tells me that the tree, when fully grown has berry fruits which birds like. After eating the fruit they pass the seed as they fly about. The tree grows very fast and if cut back to the trunk it shoots away quickly. I was forever cutting them back and had a friend visiting who has an orchard in New Zealand . I told him the problem and he suggested cutting the tree back to a low stump, make holes in the top of the stump and pour in 50 % roundup with 50% water. Works a treat, the tree dies and no regrowth, after a year the stump is dried and rotten and can be removed easily.

BAYBOY

[drtreelove]

BayBoy: Yes but clarify the 50-50 is if you are starting with at least 40% glyphosate a.i. Some RoundUp products are already formulated as a grass killer at 2% , which won't be effective on cut stumps at all.

And you don't need to drill the holes. Believe me, I've used this successfully for over 30 years, including with trees that are very strong re-sprouters, eucalyptus, redwoods, live oaks, etc. Paint it or spray (I use hand held ironing spray bottle with the solution) around the outer circumference (growing layer, sapwood) of the cut stump. No need to spray the entire cut surface of a large tree. But the sooner the better, mix and have solution on hand before you start up the chainsaw.

If you can't do this right away, then wait for it to re-sprout and spray the new foliage; this may take repeated applications until it stops sprouting.

Be careful, as glyphosate may translocate through root grafts to nearby trees of the same species that you may not intend to kill.

Triclopyr-ester products like Garlon IV Ultra is also systemic, but won't translocate to other trees. This can be sprayed on the bark of standing trees or on the cut surface and above-ground bark on the sides of a cut stump.

Readers please always consider other options to chemical use, like manual digging out of unwanted trees and shrubs instead of always going for the chemicals. You get more exercise that way too.

Edited May 9, 2015 by drtreelove

[cooked]

Go to any farm supplies shop - its available under many different brands - all 48%, same as Roundup, around 450B for 5 litres. Try using it double strength. If that doesn't do the job, make it triple strength, but I must say I've never had to go beyond double.

I have been using Glphosate for many years professionally and never used double strength (that is to say, 4%). However here in Thailand during the dry season when things grow very slowly I have found that 4% is necessary for many woody weeds. After a year or two things look under control now and I do indeed take a pick axe to the ones that have the temerity to raise their ugly heads most of the time.

Monsanto withheld information about Roundup and that is part of the reason why it has now a bad name. Reports about it causing cancer are doubtless at least partly true, but virtually everything you spray, eat, drink or smoke causes cancer these days, so a twice a year routine with the dreaded Glyph won't kill you although I do keep the cows away from newly sprayed areas.

[LindaLovelace]

Glyphosate, as I am sure you know, is a systemic killer; it typically enters through the foliage and kills the entire plant. It is most effective strong sunlight.

But here is a trick I learned from a Thai. I get these woody, half bush, half vine (it seems to grow both ways) plant. Very prolific and covered with nasty thorns. I was having trouble killing the ones that had gotten away from me (big). The big ones have a high wood to leaf ratio. This guy told me to take a machete and cut it down. Wait for the new growth and then spray that after it was a couple feet high. It worked.

[cooked]

Glyphosate, as I am sure you know, is a systemic killer; it typically enters through the foliage and kills the entire plant. It is most effective strong sunlight.

But here is a trick I learned from a Thai. I get these woody, half bush, half vine (it seems to grow both ways) plant. Very prolific and covered with nasty thorns. I was having trouble killing the ones that had gotten away from me (big). The big ones have a high wood to leaf ratio. This guy told me to take a machete and cut it down. Wait for the new growth and then spray that after it was a couple feet high. It worked.

Good comment. However things stop growing entirely here for months at a time so I could only do mas you suggest during the rainy season.

[Tapster]

@drtreelove

1.) I love your name!

2.) in reply to your quote:

What is your land use where these woody unwanted plants are growing? Are you going to grow a crop on this land? After you kill the plants, how will you remove the woody stems and root crowns? If you have to dig them out or hire a tractor, why not just go right to that method and save on labor and chemical costs.

I'm a very small landowner......one house!

Between my boundary wall and next door's is a 50 cm corridor of no-man's-land, hard to access and full of a woody plant which I need to eradicate, permanently if possible. The maximum diameter of the woody stems is no more than 25mm. They have new shoots, up to 2 metres in height and green all the way. I imagine they become woody in time.

Naturally, I have no plans to plant crops.

And I thought I'd probably leave the dead plants where they were, to discourage people from making a path between the houses.

........................................................................

@Everyone

My researches, and most of the answers here, suggest that glyphosate is the most effective/least toxic chemical to use.

My understanding is that you can use Glyphosate on green shoots/leaves or on recently-cut stems.

By the sound of it, Glyphosate won't be difficult to find. The only English I need on the container is the name and the percentage.

Now, the issue is what concentration do I need?

Is 48% a concentrate which needs to be diluted according to the job in hand?

What % Glyphosate do I need to spray these plants to their doom, please?

Can I just spray the long green shoots? I suppose the chemical won't penetrate the woody stems.

Or, must I cut down the plants and nuke the cut stems?

Thanks in advance.

[drtreelove]

4% ai (active ingredient) sprayed on green foliage of broadleaf/woody plants will probably do it. 2% is standard for grasses. 7% is highest label rate for foliar application, only needed for the toughest stuff. 25% is for cut stump treatment.

Glyphosate will usually not penetrate brown woody stems unless cut to expose sapwood. It will penetrate green stems of herbaceous plants.

Starting with a 48% glyphosate product:

5 oz per gallon of water gives you approximately 4% ai,

9 oz per gallon gives you a 7% solution.

These are American measurements. You can convert to metric if needed.

I'm not promoting or defending the use of glyphosate, but I personally consider it a useful, low toxicity tool for selective landscape applications, not for growing edible crops where soil chemistry will be altered. It sounds like your weeds are small enough and such a small area, why not dig em out, get some exercise and reduce pesticide use. Getting tired, sweaty and even a little bloody is very invigorating if you can get into it. OK, maybe I'm a strange old dude, but I like physical work and I think it keeps me healthy.

And here's for that drunken ex-hippie, this isn't necessary conclusive, but an interesting article: http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2015/03/glyphosate-and-cancer-what-does-the-data-say/

[drtreelove]

Tapster, as far as leaving dead plants that close to your house , be sure to consider potential fire hazard .

[Anthony5]

How about paraquat?

I need to kill weeds near my perimeter wall at streetside. I have both Glyphosate and Paraquat. Which one is advised?

[cooked]

4% ai (active ingredient) sprayed on green foliage of broadleaf/woody plants will probably do it. 2% is standard for grasses. 7% is highest label rate for foliar application, only needed for the toughest stuff. 25% is for cut stump treatment.

Glyphosate will usually not penetrate brown woody stems unless cut to expose sapwood. It will penetrate green stems of herbaceous plants.

Starting with a 48% glyphosate product:

5 oz per gallon of water gives you approximately 4% ai,

9 oz per gallon gives you a 7% solution.

These are American measurements. You can convert to metric if needed.

I'm not promoting or defending the use of glyphosate, but I personally consider it a useful, low toxicity tool for selective landscape applications, not for growing edible crops where soil chemistry will be altered. It sounds like your weeds are small enough and such a small area, why not dig em out, get some exercise and reduce pesticide use. Getting tired, sweaty and even a little bloody is very invigorating if you can get into it. OK, maybe I'm a strange old dude, but I like physical work and I think it keeps me healthy.

And here's for that drunken ex-hippie, this isn't necessary conclusive, but an interesting article: http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2015/03/glyphosate-and-cancer-what-does-the-data-say/

Start again. I remember years ago reading an article that beer drinkers live longer because they have less heart problems. A week later, same publication, beer drinkers die earlier because of colon cancer. That was the day I said 'screw it'.

I had read the original of the above mentioned report, and in view of the many scares that I have seen in 40 years in horticulture I still say, so what? I am not going to read an article that calls us weed control freaks, probably written by some guy that was never confronted with a 2 metre high thorn patch or a property bigger than 100 M2.

To use or not to use Glphosate is always a moderately important decision for me but as I get older I find that my scythe (the only one in Thailand) remains increasingly in the workshop and the glyph gets used more.

[samuijimmy]

How about paraquat?

I need to kill weeds near my perimeter wall at streetside. I have both Glyphosate and Paraquat. Which one is advised?

Paraquat is for annual weeds, it will kill back annual plants "overnight" usually..... Banned in most countries as very poisonous.... (deadly in most cases ... and no antidote)

A case of knowing and being able to tell the difference between perennial and annuals weeds .... a waste of time on perennial plants as it does not kill the roots.... even though the perennial weeds (or plants) might look dead ..... Glyphosate will kill the roots.... but takes about ten days... dis-colouration takes about three or four days ..... make sure to cut off seed heads before using or they will seed and start the cycle again !

I used some Glyphosate the other day, and it rained unexpectedly about an hour later.... they say 4 hours needed, but today the grass sprayed, is turning yellow!

Some good info from Dr Treelove ! ^

[cooked]

Hang on there. Paraquat just burns off everything that is green, like a flame thrower, perennials will grow back.

Glyphosate can take up to three weeks to be deemed to have done its job. But the treated plants need to be growing for it to work.

[samuijimmy]

Hang on there. Paraquat just burns off everything that is green, like a flame thrower, perennials will grow back.

Glyphosate can take up to three weeks to be deemed to have done its job. But the treated plants need to be growing for it to work.

yes my point was exactly that.... it will not kill the roots of perennial weeds (except possible very young ones!) Time of actual death of perennial weeds may vary, the point is not to disturb roots until the job is done, so yes perhaps woodier plants it would be better to leave three weeks... In my experience a couple of weeks will do it in most situations ..

I tried it on Bamboo once, that took three hits of Round up, over nearly a year!

Edited May 12, 2015 by samuijimmy

[GaryB1263]

How about paraquat?

I need to kill weeds near my perimeter wall at streetside. I have both Glyphosate and Paraquat. Which one is advised?

Both will work. You will need to plant something there after or the weeds will find the bare ground real soon. And by plant I mean seeds underground if the Paraquat is used. You can broadcast within weeks of the Glyphosate application.

[Tapster]

Hi,

Just returning, a bit late, to say many thanks for the advice, especially to Dr Treelove.

Cheers!!

[NeverSure]

Tapster....found this out by accident, if you want to try....

Get some (pool) chlorine granules and mix up a real strong brew...spray it on or pore it on and it kills everything...and i mean everything.

Previously, I used to swear by common Diesel. That works too..

You can mix your roundup in diesel at the same proportions as water and see certain death. Some plants have waxy leaves and repel water and therefore roundup and the diesel defeats that. This is what I would use for a brush killer. Oh wait. That's what I do use, LOL.

As far as drilling holes in a stump, It's a great idea but fill the holes and saturate the entire stump with diesel and set it on fire. Drill two holes in each spot - one straight down (deep) and another at an angle to intersect the first one near the bottom. That makes a fire and an intake chimney - a mini stove. Do a few of those per stump depending on stump size.

Now pour everything full of diesel and wait a couple of days for it to soak in. Then set it on fire and watch it burn all the way to the roots. The intense heat will dry the wood as it burns providing new fuel all the way down.

Cheers

[samuijimmy]

Just happened to get some Paraquat and Roundup the other day...

Here is a pic of each bottle .... I have seen Roundup under different "brand name" so bottle is not same same!

This came via a link the other day.... a good read for anyone wishing to read it!!!! .... about Glyphosate.... (Canadian research)

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pest/part/consultations/_prvd2015-01/prvd2015-01-eng.php

[BHW]

Does anybody know if Grazon or Starane can be bought in Surin or for that matter anywhere in Thailand, also Tordon.

Thanks in advance

[sipi]

I have found using one herbicide for everything just doesn't work effectively (as a banana farmer). In Australia I have 3 separate knapsack sprayers. One for woody weeds/ lantana, one for glyphosate, and another for soft weed spray. In Thailand we just dig or cut them down.