bankruatsteve Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 One can have a preferred method for connecting wires - sometimes it's in the code, but usually not. The important thing is that the wires are mechanically CONNECTED and protected (preferred method is a box but a lot of tape will also work). So, it doesn't really matter if the connection is twisted, in a wire nut, in a Wago, or whatever - it just needs to be a solid connection and some options just take more work than others to make sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whaleboneman Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wayne. HomePro don't have Wagos There are a few distributors in Thailand including a forum sponsor. As to tinning stranded cable, the jury is still out even after many years, the issue is that the solder can wick up under the insulation and introduce a stress point which can fracture. Personally I don't tin, if there's a possibility of a small cable not getting gripped properly then a bootlace ferrule is the answer (another thing that's difficult to find here). As with many things in Thailand, Ebay is your friend. As for tinning stranded cable: On one installation for speaker every thinned connection corroded, corroded till the wire was only dust. Bad quality obviously but how to know before. incorrect solder used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whaleboneman Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I may have misunderstood the majority of the contributions here as I'm not sure if they are recommending a DIY method. Could I respectfully suggest that no matter what method is used, it should only be carried out by a suitably qualified electrician. I know these can be hard to find but some time "asking round" for a recommended person would be worth it, especially if you can find someone who works to a western standard or has been trained there. It may require digging a bit deeper and handing over a few more sheckles but believe me it will be worth it, 230V is not to be trifled with and the safety of you, and your's is very worth it. As an indication that you should not touch things you don't know about, not many people have mentioned the difference between twisting solid drawn single core cable, and multiple stranded single core cable? The solid drawn single core cable should never be twisted, it is too prone to breaking and connections should be completed by a good quality tunnel connector. Too many times I have seen people give advice for the DIY enthusiast using pictures and diagrams, please don't do this as there is NO substitute for knowledge, training and experience. It may mean cutting back on the grog for a week or two but it's worth paying someone who knows what they are doing... If you don't know the correct way to do a job, then how can you know if the "expert" is doing it right. By the way, I'm from Canada where we always twist the solid wires with marrs or wire nuts. It's in the electrical code here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzachang Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I never had problems with wire nuts(in Alaska) but here, the ones I've used seem weak and corrode easily. A solution to corrosion that we used in Alaska was "dielectric silicone" - came in a tube, easy to use and was nearly always effective. I lived & worked in and around a harbor so we even used this product on all vehicle light sockets, any splices (those butt-connectors were also available with a dielectric already inside them) I have been appalled at the lack of waterproof boxes and connectors and can't seem to find that dielectric silicone anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzachang Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Wayne. HomePro don't have Wagos There are a few distributors in Thailand including a forum sponsor. As to tinning stranded cable, the jury is still out even after many years, the issue is that the solder can wick up under the insulation and introduce a stress point which can fracture. Personally I don't tin, if there's a possibility of a small cable not getting gripped properly then a bootlace ferrule is the answer (another thing that's difficult to find here). As with many things in Thailand, Ebay is your friend. As for tinning stranded cable: On one installation for speaker every thinned connection corroded, corroded till the wire was only dust. Bad quality obviously but how to know before. Tinning is ok IF you can find real rosin core or hi-silver content solder. I've tinned my sport fencing equipment wires( the terminal ends of the "body wires") and if the acid type solder is used - they corrode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzachang Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 These are available from many suppliers in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzachang Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 This is the good stuff - add to decent quality connectors and it will solve many corrosion/water problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh2121 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Would any of the people who say twisting wires together is okay, like to fly on an aircraft whose cable joints are twisted together? Why do you think it is not permitted on aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Would any of the people who say twisting wires together is okay, like to fly on an aircraft whose cable joints are twisted together? Why do you think it is not permitted on aircraft? Well, why don't you just inform us? And then explain where aircraft wiring has any relevance with house wiring. My guess is that aircraft need connectors designed for foolproof connection as well as disconnection for any maintenance or replacement. A wire connection in a house may never need disconnection and much better to have a solid connection than anything that could come loose. Loose connections end up sparking and causing fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Would any of the people who say twisting wires together is okay, like to fly on an aircraft whose cable joints are twisted together? Why do you think it is not permitted on aircraft? Well, why don't you just inform us? And then explain where aircraft wiring has any relevance with house wiring. My guess is that aircraft need connectors designed for foolproof connection as well as disconnection for any maintenance or replacement. A wire connection in a house may never need disconnection and much better to have a solid connection than anything that could come loose. Loose connections end up sparking and causing fires. Let's not forget that aircraft tend to move around a lot... houses don't, typically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Would any of the people who say twisting wires together is okay, like to fly on an aircraft whose cable joints are twisted together? Why do you think it is not permitted on aircraft? That's a pretty ridiculous comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 Wayne. HomePro don't have Wagos There are a few distributors in Thailand including a forum sponsor. As to tinning stranded cable, the jury is still out even after many years, the issue is that the solder can wick up under the insulation and introduce a stress point which can fracture. Personally I don't tin, if there's a possibility of a small cable not getting gripped properly then a bootlace ferrule is the answer (another thing that's difficult to find here). As with many things in Thailand, Ebay is your friend. As for tinning stranded cable: On one installation for speaker every thinned connection corroded, corroded till the wire was only dust. Bad quality obviously but how to know before. incorrect solder used. I used some solder for electronic, which worked well on all other wires......it might been the flux..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 ^ wagos are my preferred choice by far Moi aussi ^^^, Wagos are the Rolls-Royce of wire connectors. That said, the local wire-nuts do work quite well. You need to twist the wires clockwise, trim the end the wind on the nut, the correct size is important. Some like to add a twist of tape but if you've put the beat on properly there's no real need. Just ordered wagos...they are very cheap on ebay in Germany......Even the Original one. Bought a couple of them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 ^ you can get them here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylophone Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 A question for Crossy or someone who did their electrical apprenticeship after 1969 (when mine ended)........... in those days we used the block or tunnel connecting strips and nothing else and when I came here and saw the nut wire screw connectors I really didn't like the idea of them, however after getting used to them I found them okay and now use them when I do the odd job around the place. The block/tunnel connectors I have seen here seem to be of very poor quality and I think I saw that someone mentioned they were not recommended for use these days, so my question is, is that the case, or if I find some good-quality ones are they still okay to use?. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Nothing wrong with them, as you say if you use good quality ones. FYI. Finished apprenticeship in 1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 ^ you can get them here Where? I worry my ebay purchase will be late.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 A question for Crossy or someone who did their electrical apprenticeship after 1969 (when mine ended)........... in those days we used the block or tunnel connecting strips and nothing else and when I came here and saw the nut wire screw connectors I really didn't like the idea of them, however after getting used to them I found them okay and now use them when I do the odd job around the place. The block/tunnel connectors I have seen here seem to be of very poor quality and I think I saw that someone mentioned they were not recommended for use these days, so my question is, is that the case, or if I find some good-quality ones are they still okay to use?. Thanks in advance. 1969, wow....I wasn't even in production at this time...... these block strips (these with the 2 small screws): I used them partially here.....old fashion but nothing wrong with it (in Europe, here everything is wrong). They all failed 1 After 3-4 years the plastic cracked and fall into powder, just left the metal part. 2 the plastic they used can burn easily, one did 3 the thread easily brakes, also the metal itself sometimes crack. And I have seen some which were initially OK but after 3-4 years the metal cracked and the wires were only loose inside. Installations my grandfather did >30 years in Europe the blocks are still OK. So Thai knowledge is "Blocks no good" which is true unless you import them (or get imported one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I remember a forum sponsor was selling Wago's, bu99ered if I can find them now Anyway, I got mine from:- US POWER DISTRIBUTION CO., LTD.213/6-8 4th Floor K.S. BuildingRatchada-phisek Road, DindaengBangkok 10400 THAILAND.Tel : 662 2763040-44Fax : 662 2763049Email : uspower[at]truemail.co.thThe ones I used are :-773-102773-104 773-106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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