"ça Va" And Sawasdee?

[wamberal]

My wife used to work for a Swiss company in Bangkok, and knows a tiny bit of French (I know a bit more, but not much!)

She asked me to explain "ça va", and then postulated that the Thai word "sawasdee" has a similar sound and could possibly be derived from the French.

Any linguists out there?

(Sorry for the typo in the topic heading).

Edited September 8, 2006 by wamberal

[simcity]

My wife used to work for a Swiss company in Bangkok, and knows a tiny bit of French (I know a bit more, but not much!)

She asked me to explain "ça va", and then postulated that the Thai word "sawasdee" has a similar sound and could possibly be derived from the French.

Any linguists out there?

(Sorry for the typo in the topic heading).

Hum , what i can said is in the contest :

how was it done , and if the answer is 'ça vas ' mean it is ' OK '

if you see someone and ask him : ' ça vas ? ' mean ' are you ok ? '

if you said tout someone ' ça vas , ça vas ' mean ' Ok , OK ' in the contest of ' go down one step ' as :

A :i think you pretty rude with this guy

C :ça vas , ça vas, you did not see how he look at me !

i do not see any sawadee in it , but perhaps other will find better

[daveh]

My wife used to work for a Swiss company in Bangkok, and knows a tiny bit of French (I know a bit more, but not much!)

She asked me to explain "ça va", and then postulated that the Thai word "sawasdee" has a similar sound and could possibly be derived from the French.

Any linguists out there?

(Sorry for the typo in the topic heading).

The way I heard it was that sawasdee was from the Sanskrit word for swastika. If you look on Wikipedia for swasitka you can see that it means "good-fortune".

[gpt]

I will have to go back to my poor schoolboy French - "ça va" = "How is it?", "How's it going?"

Sawadee and swaztika do share the same Sanskrit root. Many languages have similar sounding words with completely different meanings. A few examples:-

Rot tit (Thai traffic jam) has nothing to do with either songbirds or breasts.

Yet - sound the same in both Thai and English but not the same meaning.

Bin - Arabic 'son' English 'rubbish container'

[Neeranam]

ca va = wang ngai

Edited September 9, 2006 by Neeranam

[ronw]

The Thai language is derived from Sanskrit....ie from the Indian subcontinent, whereas French,Spanish , Portugese, Italian ,Erse, and Welsh are Romance languages.....which ,as the name suggests ,is from the Romans...ie Latin.

If any two unrelated languages are compared, it will be almost inevitable that some words will be found which mean the same and sound similar.

This is usually sheer coincidence....

Hope that is of use to you..............

[farangsay]

"ça va ?" is a contraction of "comment ça va ?" = "How's it going"

Had a Thai GF visit France/Belgium.

She would pronounce it "Sa wa"

Not too far from "Sawasdee"

[ronw]

"ça va ?" is a contraction of "comment ça va ?" = "How's it going"

Had a Thai GF visit France/Belgium.

She would pronounce it "Sa wa"

Not too far from "Sawasdee"

still only coincidence,even allowing for the mispronunciation by your GF!!!!

[Richard W]

The Thai language is derived from Sanskrit....ie from the Indian subcontinent, whereas French,Spanish , Portugese, Italian ,Erse, and Welsh are Romance languages.....which ,as the name suggests ,is from the Romans...ie Latin.

If any two unrelated languages are compared, it will be almost inevitable that some words will be found which mean the same and sound similar.

It's just the posh and learned part of Thai that comes from Sanskrit/Pali. Latin and Sanskrit are related. English is related to both of them, in addition to the massive portion of English that comes from the Romance languages.

However, the related words are rarely obvious. For example, English tooth, dentist (from Latin dent-) and Thai thantaphaet are all related. In fact, if you think of the Thai word as 'tooth wizard', the two parts of the Thai word are related to the corresponding English words, but neither relationship is obvious whe you hear them. About the most obvious ancient cognates from this connection that you will meet are tho 'two', trii 'three' and raachinii 'queen' (cognate with latin regina). Most are well hidden, like theep 'angel'(?) and divine or phan 'clan' and band. Few of us think of 'Phanthip' in Phanthip Plaza meaning 'divine band', but those are the cognate words (phan <-> band, thip <=> divine).

How many of us know (perhaps few care) that Thai sunak 'dog' is related to English hound and (probably) French chien?

The connection of English 'ma' and 'pa' to Thai mae]/i] and phaw is far more ancient (and some say it is parallel re-invention), and the connection of English 'mare' and Thai maa 'horse' is very circuitous even if it is real.

[Neeranam]

How many of us know (perhaps few care) that Thai sunak 'dog' is related to English hound and (probably) French chien?

Please tell(slowly)how they are related.

I know you are an expert on these matters, are Pali and Sanskrit related, if so how?

[IMA_FARANG]

How many of us know (perhaps few care) that Thai sunak 'dog' is related to English hound and (probably) French chien?

Please tell(slowly)how they are related.

I know you are an expert on these matters, are Pali and Sanskrit related, if so how?

Don't confuse the ancestery of the Thai alphabet and the language as spoken.

Not to be too picky but both Thai and French are considered to be sub-branches of the Indo-European language group. That group probably drives from a root language inwhat is today northern India and Pakistan of probaly at least 3000 to 5000 years ago. The European language group has been modified by the Latin (Romance) languages, but can be traced back to the old Indo-European root tounge from that time. of course all the laguages are very modified by the years of use. But liguists can still find traces of the old root in both Thai and french.

Now the Thai alphabet (the written characters) are from a different source. They are probably derived from Sanskrit and similiar syetems including those brought in from Burma and also Cambodia (Khamer).

The Thais are probably related to a southern Chinese tribe known as the Dai, who migrated south into Thailand at least a thousnd years ago.

Look at the term (as SPOKEN in English),as in Your Majesty. It has the same root MAHA (or Maja) meaning high or highest as the Thai term Pra Maha used for the king, meaning (basically) high father. Praha and Maha, those are sounds from the ancient Indo-European root language, which are used to designate a FAther (Pra) and the high or highest (Maha and Majesty).

[farangsay]

"ça va ?" is a contraction of "comment ça va ?" = "How's it going"

Had a Thai GF visit France/Belgium.

She would pronounce it "Sa wa"

Not too far from "Sawasdee"

still only coincidence,even allowing for the mispronunciation by your GF!!!!

Sorry , wasn't saying there was any relationship , just saying why it might "sound"

the same.

[the scouser]

French,Spanish , Portugese, Italian ,Erse, and Welsh are Romance languages.....

Welsh is a Celtic language and is closely related to Cornish and Breton, but little else.

Scouse.

[allane]

Ce n'est pas la meme chose ! En francais, "ca va ?" est une question. On repond avec "ca va bien". En thailandais, "sawat -di" n'est pas une question, c'est la meme chose que "bonjour".

Ici, nous n'avons pas des accents francais ! Pourquoi?

[Greer]

Ce n'est pas la meme chose ! En francais, "ca va ?" est une question. On repond avec "ca va bien". En thailandais, "sawat -di" n'est pas une question, c'est la meme chose que "bonjour".

Ici, nous n'avons pas des accents francais ! Pourquoi?

Well said...and of course "Sawasdee" is also used when one is leaving or saying goodbye...

[the swagman]

Rot tit (Thai traffic jam) has nothing to do with either songbirds or breasts.

Yet - sound the same in both Thai and English but not the same meaning.

Bin - Arabic 'son' English 'rubbish container'

Excuse my laughter.

Rot tit. I hope you don't pronounce it the way you spell it.

I ususally see it as rot dtit. It is not a 't' sound but a muted 'd' sound.

French and Thai have absolutely no ancesteral linkage.

Ca va and sawadee are nowhere near close.

Sanskrit langauge was the language of the upper class back in the time of Buddha.

Pali was the langauge of the people.

People taught in the Pali langauge to probably reach more of the people.

[gpt]

Rot tit (Thai traffic jam) has nothing to do with either songbirds or breasts.

Yet - sound the same in both Thai and English but not the same meaning.

Bin - Arabic 'son' English 'rubbish container'

Excuse my laughter.

Rot tit. I hope you don't pronounce it the way you spell it.

I ususally see it as rot dtit. It is not a 't' sound but a muted 'd' sound.

French and Thai have absolutely no ancesteral linkage.

Ca va and sawadee are nowhere near close.

Sanskrit langauge was the language of the upper class back in the time of Buddha.

Pali was the langauge of the people.

People taught in the Pali langauge to probably reach more of the people.

Now it is my turn to laugh! Those words were used as an illustration of how similar sounding words mean different things in different languages and is not meant as a pronunciation guide.

As a earlier poster said, his girlfriend's pronunciation of 'ca va' sounds like 'sa wa', he never suggested any linguistic connection.

It is ridiculous to suggest that one set of people use two languages - Sanskrit for the upper class and Pali for the commoners! Pāli cannot be considered a direct descendant of either Classical Sanskrit or of the older Vedic dialect. (Source - Wikipedia)

[meadish_sweetball]

I can't believe how much disinformation floats around when it comes to languages... check your statements before posting please.

Thai is not an Indo-European language. It does however contain loans from Sanskrit and Pali, which ARE Indo-European languages. These loans were absorbed through Indic influence in South-East Asia.

Thai is part of the Tai-Kadai http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai-Kadai_languages group, and is by some linguists included in the group Austro-Tai (but this division is disputed).

As for the original question, ca va (can't get the cedille right) and sawad dii are not related, it is a coincidence that the initial sounds are similar.

The basic meaning of ca is "it" and "va" means "go".

Ca va? = "It goes?" i.e. "How's it going?"

Oui, ca va. = "Yes, it goes." i.e. "Fine."

[moonoi]

I would say that ca va and sabaai dii mai are probably closer to the same meaning?

Can people stop quoting Wikipedia and try and find a reputable source? Its full of nonsense and a great deal of it is incredibily inaccurate, even its founder says so! Have a look here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/15/wi...ge_your_grades/

carry one

Edited September 11, 2006 by moonoi

[meadish_sweetball]

Wikipedia is fine to use as a general reference but for hard facts it should not be relied on.

The above summary of Tai-Kadai languages corresponds in all essential parts with the source books we used at Uni when studying Thai, including what parts are commonly accepted and which ones are not.

[moonoi]

Wikipedia is fine to use as a general reference but for hard facts it should not be relied on.

The above summary of Tai-Kadai languages corresponds in all essential parts with the source books we used at Uni when studying Thai, including what parts are commonly accepted and which ones are not.

Ahh well as I trust your judgement on knowing something about languages more than me then ok!

I personally wouldn't trust it even for a general referance......in my own field (IT and Finance) there are some incredible inaccuracies The problem I think is more that you google your query and the wiki is always at the top of the search list...and it looks so nice and professional so it must be correct right?.........

[the scouser]

Ici, nous n'avons pas des accents francais ! Pourquoi?

Parce que c'est une conspiration anglaise...

Scouse.

[ronw]

Welsh is a Celtic language and is closely related to Cornish and Breton, but little else.

Scouse.

what a load of codswallop....welsh, cornish, bretonetc ARE romance languages...and share many root words still recognisable....probably even by you

eg...window {E} fenystr {W} fenetre{F} fenestra{IT}

bridge {E} pont {W F IT}

horse{E} cefyl {W} cheval{F}l

and there are very many more...

[the swagman]

Rot tit (Thai traffic jam) has nothing to do with either songbirds or breasts.

Yet - sound the same in both Thai and English but not the same meaning.

Bin - Arabic 'son' English 'rubbish container'

Excuse my laughter.

Rot tit. I hope you don't pronounce it the way you spell it.

I ususally see it as rot dtit. It is not a 't' sound but a muted 'd' sound.

French and Thai have absolutely no ancesteral linkage.

Ca va and sawadee are nowhere near close.

Sanskrit langauge was the language of the upper class back in the time of Buddha.

Pali was the langauge of the people.

People taught in the Pali langauge to probably reach more of the people.

Now it is my turn to laugh! Those words were used as an illustration of how similar sounding words mean different things in different languages and is not meant as a pronunciation guide.

As a earlier poster said, his girlfriend's pronunciation of 'ca va' sounds like 'sa wa', he never suggested any linguistic connection.

It is ridiculous to suggest that one set of people use two languages - Sanskrit for the upper class and Pali for the commoners! Pāli cannot be considered a direct descendant of either Classical Sanskrit or of the older Vedic dialect. (Source - Wikipedia)

Lets take a look, shall we?

PALI SANSKRIT

tipitaka tripitaka

abhidhamma abhidharma

dhamma dharma

sati smrti

Four that spring to mind.

They seem pretty close to me.

'It is ridiculous to suggest that one set of people use two languages' - Ever been to Scotland, part of Great Britian, maybe Wales?

On another matter, Bill Bryson wrote a book a few years ago called, Mother Tongue'.

A book on languages and their differences and similarities.

The opening sentence, ' More than 300 million people in the world speak English and the rest, it sometimes seems, try to.'

Interesting and funny.

[the scouser]

Welsh is a Celtic language and is closely related to Cornish and Breton, but little else.

Scouse.

what a load of codswallop....welsh, cornish, bretonetc ARE romance languages...and share many root words still recognisable....probably even by you

eg...window {E} fenystr {W} fenetre{F} fenestra{IT}

bridge {E} pont {W F IT}

horse{E} cefyl {W} cheval{F}l

and there are very many more...

That a language uses some words which may appear to be similar in spelling and meaning to a different language does not mean they come from the same family.

English, for example, is a Germanic language but for vocabulary relies heavily on Latin, Greek, French, Arabic, Urdu, Hindi etc.

Therefore, that Welsh uses some words which may be derived from a "Romance" background, does not make it, structurally and grammatically, a Latin language.

Language family tree.

Scouse.

[gpt]

Many countries have two or more official languages. What you suggested was that the upper class spoke one language whilst the commoners spoke another and never the twain shall meet. Welsh is only spoken in small pockets of the Principality by both upper class and commoners, the same applies to Scottish Gaelic.

Swagman, are you setting yourself up as our resident Sanskrit/Pali expert? How conversant are you with both languages? Did your four examples 'spring to mind' or did Google help?

There have always been crossovers between languages and always will be. How many Australian Aboriginal words have crossed over to Australian English?

[the swagman]

Many countries have two or more official languages. What you suggested was that the upper class spoke one language whilst the commoners spoke another and never the twain shall meet. Welsh is only spoken in small pockets of the Principality by both upper class and commoners, the same applies to Scottish Gaelic.

Swagman, are you setting yourself up as our resident Sanskrit/Pali expert? How conversant are you with both languages? Did your four examples 'spring to mind' or did Google help?

There have always been crossovers between languages and always will be. How many Australian Aboriginal words have crossed over to Australian English?

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

In most countries there are many 'levels' of language if you like.

Here in Thailand there are certain words, common words, like to eat, that are used only with the Royal family. There is a 'higher' or 'posh' language that can and is only used for the roylas and there is a certain vocabulary for monks as well.

Remember in Australia many years ago, Dennis Lillee was front page news because as he was introduced to the Queen he asked her, 'How's it going mate?'

Similar.

Please, I am not an expert in the languages. Made examples came from some books I have that I use for my work. Who's Google?

Your point of crossovers is valid. The English langauge is full of words from all over the world, eskimo, indian, dutch, snskrit, aboriginal, maori, everywhere. Tjis is why is is such a rich and diverse language which is a difficult thing to explain to students.

[gpt]

Posh English, Common English - the same language

Royal Thai, Posh Thai, Common Thai - the same language

Pali, Sanskrit - similar but not the same language.

[the swagman]

What you suggested was that the upper class spoke one language whilst the commoners spoke another and never the twain shall meet.

Maybe 'language' was the wrong word, although I can't think of another word to suit.

'Posh English, Common English - the same language

Royal Thai, Posh Thai, Common Thai - the same language'

Of course its the same bl....y language but there are many variations in the wording, the syntex, the tone.

'Pali, Sanskrit - similar but not the same language'

That's what I meant.

[Richard W]

Did your four examples 'spring to mind' or did Google help?

Ratchabandit (i.e. the Royal Institure Dictionary - price 600฿) is a rich source of examples. While Pali does not descend from Sanskrit - the words for 'nest' - ni.d.dha] v. ni:.da and 'six' cha v. .sa.t are pretty good examples of why not - one can usually predict the cognate Pali word from the Sanskrit word. A lot of Thai words seem to be Pali words whose spelling has been remodelled on Sanskrit, so often one cannot say whether a word comes from Pali or Sanskrit - sometimes the pronunication comes from Pali and the spelling from Sanskrit.

Incidentally, I forgot one of the more recognisable Pali/Sanskrit words - /kho:/ 'cow' in Thai, though it's hard to recognise French boeuf in either form.