Why FARMERS do not try to make more money with ORGANIC vegetables and fruits ?

[thailandforumaddict]

Hello,

In some western countries the smart farmers understood long time ago that standard poisoned fruits and vegs are not good for business, so why all these poors farmers in Thailand do not understand this ?

I guess that it is not so complicated in Thailand to grow organic ? Can a farmer do it on any land or need to "clean" (purify) the soil first ?

Please help me to understand why more farmers are not trying to use their work to make money ?

Maybe they do not know where to sell their expensive vegetables or fruits because they do not have access to rich expat customers ?

Thanks for listening.

[weegee]

Your'e kidding arent you?

[thailandforumaddict]

Not at all ? why ? Sorry if the question is stupid or too impressive ?

:-)

[weegee]

No...your're question is good....But Thais need to make money the quickest way they can...

maybe they are not interested in your'e methods....

This should be in the Farming forum so you can understand what life is about here.....

NO disrespect to anyone.....

[ukrules]

I would imagine that bugs have a lot to do with it. Hungry crop eating bugs.

[NeverSure]

OP, You say that in the West it is common. Believe me, by far most produce is grown with chemicals. The organic farmer is a specialist and usually on a small scale.

All soil improvement has to be organic which is usually done with compost. That is also the fertilizer. It is very hard to get the same yields with organic as with "chemical" fertilizer.

The term organic can be misleading. Chemical fertilizers are largely made from oil which is "organic."

Your crap is organic. Don't put that on your garden as it can contain human disease. Don't get all caught up in the term organic. Your pee is organic but don't put it on your vegetables even though it's high in nitrogen which is a chemical and part of the organic pee.

As Ukreles said you have to be prepared to either ward off insects or suffer loss from them.

There are a lot of organic diseases which can kill your plants. Damping off is just one of them. It's an organic fungus. Organic isn't always a good thing. If everyone was strict about growing and eating organic there wouldn't be enough food in this world.

[thailandforumaddict]

Thank you but I am bot asking if organics is good and what are the problems, I guess that I know them, I am asking why farmers don't do it.

And yes, farmers who are less stupid than others do it in Europe and even do direct sale, why Thai couldn't do it ?

Thank you to all.

[NeverSure]

Thank you but I am bot asking if organics is good and what are the problems, I guess that I know them, I am asking why farmers don't do it.

And yes, farmers who are less stupid than others do it in Europe and even do direct sale, why Thai couldn't do it ?

Thank you to all.

Are you sure they are all honest about organic? It's really hard to get a good crop, much less a crop free of disease and insect damage when growing organically.

Most true organic produce is grown in screened buildings. It's either grown via hydroponics or in containers. The soil in the containers is a mix of soil and organic material which has been sterilized by heat to kill disease and insects including unborn insects.

If someone is growing produce outside in a field while calling it organic, be skeptical.

True organic growing is also a strongly held belief system. People believe in it so much they will sacrifice a lot to achieve it. That doesn't mean that they are productive or profitable. What they may gain in price per, they probably lose in volume produced.

[thailandforumaddict]

I am talking from a Thai farmer point of view:

why not cheating all these stupid farang who will pay 50 baht a carrot thinking that it is organic and clean ?

why more farmers don't do it ?

[NeverSure]

I am talking from a Thai farmer point of view:

why not cheating all these stupid farang who will pay 50 baht a carrot thinking that it is organic and clean ?

why more farmers don't do it ?

Why not cheating the farang by telling him it's organic when it's not? That I could believe.

[HooHaa]

I am talking from a Thai farmer point of view:

why not cheating all these stupid farang who will pay 50 baht a carrot thinking that it is organic and clean ?

why more farmers don't do it ?

Why FARMERS do not try to make more money with ORGANIC vegetables and fruits ?

Perhaps with limited EDUCATION and resources they are NOT even aware that organic is an OPTION?

[BudRight]

Modern farming methods using GM crops are one of the greatest inventions in human history. Using these techniques you can feed more people with fewer pesticides and herbicides. This is like asking why we don't take horses and buggies around town, refrigerate our food with ice from Greenland and communicate by messengers running letters between towns in sandals.

The answer: because it's 2015 and the modern way is better.

[thailandforumaddict]

Sorry but can we move this post to a better section if it exists ? Getting bored to receive only stupid replies from people who have nothing smart to say...

[Beetlejuice]

I am talking from a Thai farmer point of view:

why not cheating all these stupid farang who will pay 50 baht a carrot thinking that it is organic and clean ?

why more farmers don't do it ?

To answer you in layman`s terms, producing organic foods is a slower method and requires more resources, which in turn makes the whole process much more expensive.

We cannot equate the economics of Thailand with the west. Considering that at least two thirds of Thailand`s population are poor and in most cases are living hand to mouth on a day to day basis, means they want foods at the lowest prices possible and for this reason are not too particular how it`s produced.

Producing organic foods in Thailand on a grand scale would not be viable for the farmers who make their living by quantity rather than quality and the costs would be unaffordable for the average working class Thais.

The financial contributions that ex-pats make towards the economy of Thailand is minimal and any farmers that decided to cater for the farang market would soon go out of business unless they could archive a reasonable organic food growth industry mainly dealing with exports.

In Thailand today these products are available in the farang orientated stores such as Rimping and even Makros, but still this line only caters for a very small minority of customers for reasons I have mentioned above.

[NeverSure]

Sorry but can we move this post to a better section if it exists ? Getting bored to receive only stupid replies from people who have nothing smart to say...

Someone who grew up on a 4,000 acre (10,000 rai) farm and ranch tries to tell you something and he's stupid? Others agree and they are all stupid?

[thailandforumaddict]

Thank you for your reply, but I think that you think too much like in the west: of course in Thailand the rules are more relaxed and of course there are enough "rich" expats to buy few farmers products if they were able to sell directly.

But I understand that it's not really possible for a standard farmer here.

I am talking from a Thai farmer point of view:

why not cheating all these stupid farang who will pay 50 baht a carrot thinking that it is organic and clean ?

why more farmers don't do it ?

To answer you in layman`s terms, producing organic foods is a slower method and requires more resources, which in turn makes the whole process much more expensive.

We cannot equate the economics of Thailand with the west. Considering that at least two thirds of Thailand`s population are poor and in most cases are living hand to mouth on a day to day basis, means they want foods at the lowest prices possible and for this reason are not too particular how it`s produced.

Producing organic foods in Thailand on a grand scale would not be viable for the farmers who make their living by quantity rather than quality and the costs would be unaffordable for the average working class Thais.

The financial contributions that ex-pats make towards the economy of Thailand is minimal and any farmers that decided to cater for the farang market would soon go out of business unless they could archive a reasonable organic food growth industry mainly dealing with exports.

In Thailand today these products are available in the farang orientated stores such as Rimping and even Makros, but still this line only caters for a very small minority of customers for reasons I have mentioned above.

[colinneil]

Growing organic veg is not more expensive than growing using chemicals, just the opposite.

Before my accident i was growing organic, have done it for years in UK. Registered organic with the soil association.

Thai people will not grow organic, because my father used chemicals, so i do the same.

Also buying chemicals they get credit from the merchants.

My f.i.l. now grows veg on my plot. I have tried to get him to grow without chemicals, he just will not listen.

Local people used to come our home asking what veg you got, please bring to my home when ready.

All the veg i grew was sold around 2 villages. People wanted organic.

Thai farmers will not change what they have done for years because they are scared people will laugh at them.

[thailandforumaddict]

I do not believe that all farmers are idiots. I am sure that few of them can understand and do better.

Growing organic veg is not more expensive than growing using chemicals, just the opposite.

Before my accident i was growing organic, have done it for years in UK. Registered organic with the soil association.

Thai people will not grow organic, because my father used chemicals, so i do the same.

Also buying chemicals they get credit from the merchants.

My f.i.l. now grows veg on my plot. I have tried to get him to grow without chemicals, he just will not listen.

Local people used to come our home asking what veg you got, please bring to my home when ready.

All the veg i grew was sold around 2 villages. People wanted organic.

Thai farmers will not change what they have done for years because they are scared people will laugh at them.

[IMA_FARANG]

Most poor farmers in Thailand are trapped in the debt cycle of being "lent" money to buy fertilizers, pesticides, etc.

The average poor farmer can not get out of that cycle of "borrowing" money to raise a crop to repay his or her debts which must be repaid with interest on the "loan".

They also do not have access to farmers marketing organizations that can market their produce directly for them. Often they have to go through middle-men who offer low prices for their produce which keeps the poor farmers on a continuous "debt" condition which means they can't make a profit even if they happen to have a good year..... first they have to pay of the "loans" they got and the interest that these "loans' demand.

Many poor farmers get into that cycle of having to work very hard just to repay what they owe for the previous years crop, and have to simply borrow more money just to start a crop to get enough to repay their debts.

Once you are caught in that cycle of borrow and repay with interest, it is very difficult to get out of such a cycle.

Once you are poor the system works to keep you poor and always earning money for those who loan you money.

And once you are poor, all it takes is one bad crop year to push you into debt you find it hard to get out of.

People in the cities assume that being a farmer is "easy..... food just pops up from the ground ....but the reality is very different.

Especially if your poor it is very hard to break out of the borrowing/debt/poverty cycle because it seems no matter how hard you work you still owe money for everything you need to repay what you already owe for other loans.

[thailandforumaddict]

Thank you, I didn't know about this loan thing, but I do not agree that they all are hard workers, it seems that many work when they do not forget to do it...

Most poor farmers in Thailand are trapped in the debt cycle of being "lent" money to buy fertilizers, pesticides, etc.

The average poor farmer can not get out of that cycle of "borrowing" money to raise a crop to repay his or her debts which must be repaid with interest on the "loan".

They also do not have access to farmers marketing organizations that can market their produce directly for them. Often they have to go through middle-men who offer low prices for their produce which keeps the poor farmers on a continuous "debt" condition which means they can't make a profit even if they happen to have a good year..... first they have to pay of the "loans" they got and the interest that these "loans' demand.

Many poor farmers get into that cycle of having to work very hard just to repay what they owe for the previous years crop, and have to simply borrow more money just to start a crop to get enough to repay their debts.

Once you are caught in that cycle of borrow and repay with interest, it is very difficult to get out of such a cycle.

Once you are poor the system works to keep you poor and always earning money for those who loan you money.

And once you are poor, all it takes is one bad crop year to push you into debt you find it hard to get out of.

People in the cities assume that being a farmer is "easy..... food just pops up from the ground ....but the reality is very different.

Especially if your poor it is very hard to break out of the borrowing/debt/poverty cycle because it seems no matter how hard you work you still owe money for everything you need to repay what you already owe for other loans.

[canopy]

Let me explain as I live in rural Thailand. In the country, folks do not follow sets of strict and complex rules which is required for organic. There is a spec. You must read it. You must understand all of it completely. You must follow all of it with no deviation. You must be tested to verify you meet the spec for certification. Not going to happen. Just look at some other areas for reference. When they drive, they just do what they want on the road rather than follow the rules of the road book. Most never get a legitimate license. Or how about when they make a house--it's just ad-hoc junk with no building codes observed. Have you ever heard of a decent brick layer? Or electrician? I haven't. And when farming, here again they just do whatever they want. So there is indiscriminate burning, chemicals, poisons, and erosion even though these can carry significant disadvantages such as lower profitability or be detrimental to the environment and population. So in summary: they don't care. They do what they want rather than following someone else's rules.

[maidee]

what makes sence in the west, does not make sence here

[FireMedic]

They have grown, traded, and sold rice here for the last thousand years here. That's what they know how to do. You can't expect them to change to organic anything anytime soon. Doing everything truly organic takes time, money, and initiative....and we know rural/farming Thais don't have any of those.

[pigeonjake]

im going to put my bit in,

i live in the sticks we dont use chemicals, and the thais look at our veg,, our pigs, chickens, ducks and the eggs, we sell lots of our stuff,

but and its a big but,

they will always have to use chemicals,

1st, after every rain fall you will see people out at that night time catching frogs,( ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE STICKS WILL OF SEAN THIS) they are catching and eating the things that keep the bugs down, so they have to spray,

2nd, like some other poster said, its what there father did and what there neighbour does, so they just follow,

3rd, you cannot tell them how to look after there land, as in taking the frogs away every rain storm, its harder to collect poo and put it on the land as it has to be rotto tiled in, so that would mean more expence having to get the tractor in, as with chemicals they can just do it by hand, ive said to my wife many time they are killing the land,

my wifes cousins land borders ours, and were we have a dyke for the run off water just from 2 pig pens, his sugar cane, just the one row is miles better then the rest of his crop, becouse its feeding from our run off water,

im afraid thailand will, maybe not all, but 90% will always be chemicals,

we try and grow all we need, even pork, duck and chicken,

i had a member on here contact me from bkk asking if i could get eggs to him,, but we have a waiting list for our eggs round here, even though i could get more selling in bkk its the hassle,

im afraid this is one of them subjects that really does mean,, THIS IS THAILAND, and i really dont think we will change them,

jake,, organic farmer,,

look at our place on youtube,, thaifarmlife.com ronald jackson

[CharlieH]

MOVED to Farming

[ronthai]

Who is going to believe the farmer who says: "MY crop is 100% organic, never used any pesticides!"

OP, you do know in which country you live wright (or right) [never figured out which is correct (w)right (not left) ]

[1FinickyOne]

Interesting questionwhich I have thought about in the past. My family mostly farms corn and a small amount of land is given to rice for personal consumption.

Where I am, not in a farang region, the cash crop is corn. My first thought too was diversity. The answer locally is that they are all set up for corn. There are harvesters that come in, the crop is husked and sold to corn drying facilities, and the farmers get paid. The corn drying facilites are local and easily accessed and looking for product that they will sell onward. So, essentially, after planting, applying chemicals & watering, when the corn reaches maturity, their job is over.

So, the simple answer is convenience.

There are small backyard places that do grow produce, organic or not, for local consumption but this involves the extra steps of hand picking and going to market and hopefully selling. It is a good bit more work - I would imagine that the economics of the situation do not bear out as I do not consider the farmers here stupid.

[nongsangcity]

Organic food..........now theres a joke.....in the west its a rip off....no better taste, no better colour no better anything..and you are allowed to use a certain number of chemicals or pesticide......and then you pay top price for ORGANIC...after 30 years in the food industry don't get me stared.......have a nice all....and eat what ever you fancy...

[grumbleweed]

Who is going to believe the farmer who says: "MY crop is 100% organic, never used any pesticides!"

OP, you do know in which country you live wright (or right) [never figured out which is correct (w)right (not left) ]

Judging by his comments I'm not sure he knows which planet he's on, let alone which country he's in.

Farmers that are less stupid??? hmmm

Obviously we must all bow to his superior intelligence. Not Greek by any chance?

ps

It's right, as in "a right Charlie" (not you)

[soalbundy]

Thank you but I am bot asking if organics is good and what are the problems, I guess that I know them, I am asking why farmers don't do it.

And yes, farmers who are less stupid than others do it in Europe and even do direct sale, why Thai couldn't do it ?

Thank you to all.

Thailand is hot with high humidity, good for bugs and fungus, not so good for farmers who need a high yield for low priced farm commodities. I tried to grow water melons in my garden without using pesticides, waste of time, all eaten through. A lot of farmers do use organic fertilizer, my village produces it, chicken droppings burnt with rice husks, works well but you cant do without chemical fertilizer completely so a mix is used. In Thailand green philosophy meets reality.