Prayut urged to ban private hospital collecting charges on emergency patients

[webfact]

Prayut urged to ban private hospital collecting charges on emergency patients



BANGKOK: -- The Thai Medical Error Network yesterday made another call on the prime minister to ban private hospital from collecting advance deposit or from mandating relatives of patients to sign medical bills acceptance from within the first 72 hours after their emergency admissions.

The network, led by Mrs Preeyanan Lorsermvattana, thanked Prime Minister Gen Prayut Chan-o-cha after its first call was quickly responded.

The network on Tuesday filed a petition, signed by 33,000 people, calling on Gen Prayut to impose controls on private hospital’s charging of medical service fees which they said are unreasonably high.

Gen Prayut later instructed the Public Health and Commerce ministries to set median prices for medical care and medicines provided by private hospitals.

In a second statement, the network proposes the government to impose short-term or interim measures within a month which include banning private hospitals from collecting deposit or from mandating relatives of patients to sign agreement to accept responsibility for medical bills within the first 72 hours after emergency admissions.

After the 72-hour period, it proposes that the hospital must transfer the patient to a hospital where his or her healthcare is covered by the universal healthcare scheme.

However, in the situation of no available bed, three agencies which comprises the National Health Security Office (NHSO), Social Security Office and the Comptroller General’s Department must step in to help provide a bed for the patient.

For medium- and long-term proposals, the network called on the prime minister to pass the Medical Malpractice Victim Protection draft law and amend the 1982 Medical Profession Act for better transparency and justice for the public.

It also reiterated its call for the prime minister to execute Section 44 of the interim constitution to dissolve the Medical Council’s elected board and select new board members to avoid conflict of interest.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/prayut-urged-to-ban-private-hospital-collecting-charges-on-emergency-patients


-- Thai PBS 2015-05-18

[EricBerg]

Emergency patients will be the ideal victims for scams. It's more or less "pay or die" when urgently needing hospital care.

That Thai Medical Error Network sounds like a good institution. One doesn't encounter too mazny of those in the Land of Smiles...

[khunianb]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

[NickJ]

Hope it pans out.....The Big 4 of the Bangkok Ivory Towers wont like this one bit...........Esp the one thats is heavily owned by US investment.

[Bluespunk]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

Is that what a patient in a life or death emergency treatment situation is thinking about....I can just see it now

"hmm, which hospital can I con into giving me a better standard of treatment than I can afford, let me think while I bleed to death in this coma I'm in."

Edited May 18, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Your Thainess]

I suppose if you've got a boneheaded idea, now's the time to submit it.

[hgma]

Medics took an oath in the past,didn't they?

Every patient was to be treated.

A private Hospital refusing emergency treatment (72 hours)should be closed.

And if they do a standard compensation paid when patient is not capable of paying the Private pricing.

Back to the old days, i suggest....patient first!

[konying]

I have to say private hospital care has changed in past 7 years.

I always use Bangkok hospital .

Last time I had cordison injection 5 years ago, I was charged 1000 doctor fee plus medication and nursing charge .

3 days ago I was charged 1000 doctor fee, plus 1200 doctor procedure fee.

What the hell was that for ?

1000 to look at me and 1200 to make injection ??? Plus all the rest nursing , and medication fees

[NeverSure]

Even in the US without universal health care no hospital can ask about insurance until a patient is stabilized and able to discuss it. People would die. If a patient can't afford to pay it the hospital will negotiate the price down with a payment schedule that the patient can afford. They can't get blood from a stone. Most people have insurance and the hospitals do OK. A large number of rural hospitals get federal subsidies so that the people will even have a hospital much less one they can afford.

Ripping people off when they are medically vulnerable or refusing to treat them is inhumane.

[brfsa2]

Finally something done with the greedy mafia hospitals. They charge a massive amount of money and pay peanuts to the nurses and nurse assistants.

for example. a simple bill for 1 night stay for 1 patient is the whole month salary for registered nurse. and most of the time nurses are treated like shit by the patients...

[laocowboy2]

Finally something done with the greedy mafia hospitals. They charge a massive amount of money and pay peanuts to the nurses and nurse assistants.

for example. a simple bill for 1 night stay for 1 patient is the whole month salary for registered nurse. and most of the time nurses are treated like shit by the patients...

I know what you me. I had a major op last year at the Bumrungrad and when I was discharged, I went round and tipped all nurses and nurse assistants who had looked after me (excellently). They were astonished - apparently it does not happen often

[circusman]

Finally something done with the greedy mafia hospitals. They charge a massive amount of money and pay peanuts to the nurses and nurse assistants.

for example. a simple bill for 1 night stay for 1 patient is the whole month salary for registered nurse. and most of the time nurses are treated like shit by the patients...

I know what you me. I had a major op last year at the Bumrungrad and when I was discharged, I went round and tipped all nurses and nurse assistants who had looked after me (excellently). They were astonished - apparently it does not happen often

I imagine they took their 20 baht right to the bank for safe keeping. Just joking. You did good.

[wvavin]

I reckon its a free-for-all way happening in all the private hospitals in Bangkok. Looks like rumours are too real that they are charging higher fees than the safer & more respectable Singapore private hospitals!

[mathias67]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

I have no problem paying reasonable fees but when 7 years ago I needed a hernia op I was quoted 50,000Bt at Pattaya Memorial Hospital but on the advice of friends went to Sattahip and had they same op 4 days later for 7,800Bt that was a 42,200Bt saving. How can Pattaya Memorial justify such a high charge

[Johnny S]

Medics took an oath in the past,didn't they?

Every patient was to be treated.

A private Hospital refusing emergency treatment (72 hours)should be closed.

And if they do a standard compensation paid when patient is not capable of paying the Private pricing.

Back to the old days, i suggest....patient first!

Think the policeofficers take an oath too ... nuff said

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

No there was an agreement between government and private hospitals that incase of an emergency the private hospitals will take in patients at government rates until they can be transfered to a government hospital (72 hours). The greedy hospitals have gone back on their agreement.

[Bob12345]

Finally something done with the greedy mafia hospitals. They charge a massive amount of money and pay peanuts to the nurses and nurse assistants.

for example. a simple bill for 1 night stay for 1 patient is the whole month salary for registered nurse. and most of the time nurses are treated like shit by the patients...

So now you want the government to regulate not only the profits of private companies but also the salaries of all their employees?

That idea worked out so well in other communist countries in the past.

Nurses are paid more in private hospitals than in public hospitals. The work is also more demanding in public hospitals plus patients treat them worse. So maybe start there?

[Bob12345]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

No there was an agreement between government and private hospitals that incase of an emergency the private hospitals will take in patients at government rates until they can be transfered to a government hospital (72 hours). The greedy hospitals have gone back on their agreement.

That makes it sound like a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it. So 72 hours of 1st class care for no extra costs?

I just checked with an emergency doctor from a private hospital and she indicated they treat patients with emergency cases before discussing the bills. If the patients is "back" the option is given to stay and pay or not pay and be transferred.

To me that sounds fair.

P.s. interesting question would be to how many people this 2nd request will apply. This is nowhere mentioned, why not? First estimate of the doctor i talked to: much less than 100 people yearly.

[Equalizer]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

I have no problem paying reasonable fees but when 7 years ago I needed a hernia op I was quoted 50,000Bt at Pattaya Memorial Hospital but on the advice of friends went to Sattahip and had they same op 4 days later for 7,800Bt that was a 42,200Bt saving. How can Pattaya Memorial justify such a high charge

Because the memorial hospital is a working mafia set up. All the staff are grounded on how to extract the maximum amount of money from emergency admittance. It is very close and it also back hands the volunteer ambulance workers. The doctors are crooks in my experience. They wrongly diagnose just to get you in there. No mention of insurance is voiced unless you ask first. Then you get the bill plus Ambulance fees to take you to a hospital that accepts insurance. That place is one dodgy dive.

[razer]

The moral obligation of any hospital private or public, is to save lives and administer emergency care. I think after the emergency care and the patient is stable, a private hospital has the right to continue care or send the patient to another hospital. The USA is not a good example of government morality and the USA medical system, ranked around 17 in quality of care, is morally bankrupt. Human lives are not a business.

[Ulic]

If this goes through the private hospitals will just close down there emergency rooms

and focus on the other areas of the hospital. That said I am sure some accommodation

will be reached. As I have said before, all hospitals private and public should have the

charges displayed so Thais, expats, and tourists can make an informed decision

on where they will go. From cosmetic surgery to non elective surgery, the total rates

and a breakdown should be available for everyone to view,

[wowfactor10]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

I have no problem paying reasonable fees but when 7 years ago I needed a hernia op I was quoted 50,000Bt at Pattaya Memorial Hospital but on the advice of friends went to Sattahip and had they same op 4 days later for 7,800Bt that was a 42,200Bt saving. How can Pattaya Memorial justify such a high charge

Okay here is how the managers from Pattaya memorial Hospital justify it ::

Farang-Tourist-Pattaya = means try squeeze as much money out of this person as possible so then u get your 50,000 bht. (Its a standard procedure by most hopitals especially in tourists spots!

[flyingdoc]

As an example, Bumrungrad have pay desks on every floor, and it is a minimum of 50,000 or even 100, 000 as a deposit even in an emergency before anything is carried out at all !

Almost everything else is extra. This is far more than private hospitals in the U.K., who have now in any case exceeded even their BUPA allocations !

Edited May 18, 2015 by flyingdoc

[jackanapes]

I have remarked on this before not only do hospitals charge high prices but they also keep patients on life support systems till finances run dry this has been a bone of contention for quite some time .

[dageurreotype]

Emergency patients will be the ideal victims for scams. It's more or less "pay or die" when urgently needing hospital care.

That Thai Medical Error Network sounds like a good institution. One doesn't encounter too mazny of those in the Land of Smiles...

From a BP article, this was brought in by the Taksin/Yingluck government and the issue was raised from the Junta administration dead (no pun intended) when someone's Thai granny suffered a heart attack and had to be taken to the nearest hospital who then refused to transfer her to a cheaper government run facility as 'she was still under their care'. The bill exceeded 800k, if memory serves me right and a deal was brokered with the impoverished family whereby the astronomical fee was to be paid at 2000 baht per month. It would take twenty five years to pay off.

Healthcare is the number one priority in any country. In Monaco, for instance, emergency healthcare is free of charge to anyone needing it, even tourists, as I found when travelling with a friend who'd gashed his arm on a spiked fence when attempting to photograph the bay. This free healthcare is funded by the casino. as it should be. Perhaps the obscenely wealthy here, of which there are many, could give up some of their ill gotten gains likewise. Breath. Not. holding.

[dageurreotype]

I know what you me. I had a major op last year at the Bumrungrad and when I was discharged, I went round and tipped all nurses and nurse assistants who had looked after me (excellently). They were astonished - apparently it does not happen often

Wonderful. So now they will all expect to be 'tipped generously' or left in the corridors. Some of you ..

[tajtom]

LOL

It is a scam and my GF tells me she not even pay in her home town.. She pays 30 baht to get her teeth cleaned really.

And hospitals like Bangkok hospital offer fair service but still show signs of being lost. The bill to Falang is not the same as Thais pay. Do not be fooled, we are being robbed... Treated like where at a bar in Walking street.

For falang that are here for long stay with apropiate VISA. We should pay the same.. If you visit another contry we do not charge other people more or less. In fact my country houses 150 different nationalities. And we do not make special names for them such as Falang. What a stupid term from the dark ages. Grow up. The world thinks its silly.

[oneday]

Simply a mechanism to get better quality care without paying for it.

I have no problem paying reasonable fees but when 7 years ago I needed a hernia op I was quoted 50,000Bt at Pattaya Memorial Hospital but on the advice of friends went to Sattahip and had they same op 4 days later for 7,800Bt that was a 42,200Bt saving. How can Pattaya Memorial justify such a high charge

The hospital in Satthip is a well known government hospital, Queen Sirikit Hospital. I've been there a couple times, but I wouldn't go if I needed something quickly because you won't get it quickly there unless it's an emergency, at least I assume emergencies are treated quickly at this hospital.

There has always been a wide gap in pricing between government and private hospitals and there should be to a point. The private hospitals have spent a lot more money on the buildings (even though it does nothing for your health they do need to recoup their costs), they have a ton more staff and because prices are higher the hospital is not crowded so you can generally be seen quickly. I would also assume most modern machines, such as MRI's, have been purchased and the latest in laboratory services are available for diagnoses.

However, it does seem in the last few years the prices at private hospitals have started to skyrocket beyond what I have listed above would seem to justify.

Edited May 18, 2015 by oneday

[nahkit]

Finally something done with the greedy mafia hospitals. They charge a massive amount of money and pay peanuts to the nurses and nurse assistants.

for example. a simple bill for 1 night stay for 1 patient is the whole month salary for registered nurse. and most of the time nurses are treated like shit by the patients...

So now you want the government to regulate not only the profits of private companies but also the salaries of all their employees?

That idea worked out so well in other communist countries in the past.

Nurses are paid more in private hospitals than in public hospitals. The work is also more demanding in public hospitals plus patients treat them worse. So maybe start there?

"The work is also more demanding in public hospitals plus patients treat them worse"

Can you back that up with some facts?

[Nowisee]

Greed?