What documents will I need?

[Rob Roy]

This message is for Ubonjoe

I am from Scotland my age is 61 years old and i have been to Thailand twice last year 2014 and in 2015 on tourist visas. I have taken your advice I already have my own Kasikorn bank account in TRAT in my own name. It was opened with the help of my Thai girlfriend 1 year ago (We are not married) just live together for now. Next month June, I will go to Glasgow Royal Thai Consulate to try and get a Non Immigrant O Visa based on retirement (90 days) before the end of my first month in Thailand I will transfer approx 1 million baht into my bank account. Q. Will i have to have a Savings account first to get a 1 year extension based on retirement? Do I have to be over 65 and collecting the UK State pension to qualify? Q. What docs will I need to take to Laem Gnop Police Immigration office other than a letter from bank manager, an up to date bank book showing I have 800k in my account for 2 months in first year then (for 3 mths in 2nd yr). My 10 yr UK Passport, I will also take my Thai driving licence I obtained last Nov 2014 in Trat. Ubonjoe is there anything else I will need proof or document wise please? Later in the year I will transfer several millions more when the Thai baht weakens again which it has started to do now, but at present this is now what the Thai government wants because a strong Thai baht has definately harmed Thailand's ability to trade overseas and in the international money markets. You are the main person I would trust to give me accurate visa advice. Kind Regards. I decided not to go down the nightmare route of applying for a 1 yr Non OA Long stay visa. This would mean a 1000 mile round trip to London fm Scotland to get this visa as it is the only place to this type of visa from the Thai Embassy and then they said I had to 1. Go to my doctor and get a medical Cert. 2. A criminal check certificate. 3. My local bank manager letter show funds over 800,000 THB Equivalent in the UK not in a Thai bank as I was advised before. I would have to pay for overnight stay in a hotel as it takes more than 1day to get this visa. Q. Will I be able to get a Non Imm O Visa in Glasgow with only my Passport and other identification + passport photos? Ubonjoe if I can obtain my first 1 year extension based on retirement and reporting every 90 days to my local Police Imm office. This will be no problem in person or online as the office is only 25 klms away. At the end of my 1st year extn 12 mths? Or 1 yr + my first 90 day visa = 15 ths or is it only a total of 12 mths? Also before my first 1 year extn is ended how long before must I go back in person to re-apply for my 2nd 1 yr extension? If I am able to get a non imm o visa with 90 day reporting. I valve your advice and I await your replies. Thank You Kindly. My girlfriend has just had a major operation in Dec 2014 she was diagnosed in Chanthaburi hospital with abnormal blood cells in her cervix and she was advised to have her womb and both ovaries removed to give her the best chance for the cancer not to return. My GF is to return to hospital now 6 mths later which is tomorrow Tues 19th May for an Endoscopy we are both hoping she will have good luck. For now is my only option to get a triple tourist visa in Glasgow Thai consulate or is it possible to change to a non immigrant o visa in Thailand after my 800K has been weathered in my Kasikorn bank for 60 days? Or is this not possible unless I am married first? Kind Regards.

[ubonjoe]

You only have to be 50 or over to apply for an extension.m The 65 or over and on OAP is only to a get a multiple entry non-o visa in the UK.

You will just need proof of having 800k baht in a Thai bank for 60 days by way of a letter from the bank and copies of your updated bank book. Copies of your passport port and a TM7 application form. You may also be asked for proof of residence.

You will apply for your 2nd extension during the last 30 days of the permit to stay you get from your first one.

After you get the extension you will make 90 day reports. By the time you need to do your first report you should be able to it online.

If you are here on a tourist visa you could do a change of visa status to get a non immigrant visa at Bangkok immigration but it will require 2 trips 15 day apart. For those not living in or near Bangkok it is best to make a trip to a nearby embassy or consulate to get a single entry non-o visa.

[Rob Roy]

First Thank you for your quick reply ubonjoe this is exactly what i needed to know. To recap pls correct me if i am wrong in any part. I can go to Glasgow Thai Consulate apply for a single 90 day entry with a Non Immigrant O Visa based on retirement. I will have proceeds of my house sale in uk go into my Bank of Scotland account ( well in excess of 800,000 THB) . If I am granted this visa I am now 61 yrs old and I have a local govnment pension but for now it is less than the 65,000 thb needed so this route is not an option for me luckily as I hate paperwork. I can easily get a letter from my bank manager in Scotland for financial proof. Q. Will I need to get this notarised by a solicitor first in the uk? Or is this proof not required in the uk or in Thailand to apply for a 1 yr extension based on the 800k in my Thai kasikorn bank account for 2 months. I will transfer about 1 million baht to Thailand within the first month of arriving in Thailand so it will be in my account for 60 days. I will take my Thai gf and most likely my future wife with me to do the talking as no one in the bank can speak any English and I cannot speak any Thai or not yet! I will get kasikorn bank manager letter and stamped and I will take my up to date bank book with me the day before or on the same day as we both go to Laem Gnop police immigration office to apply for the 1 year extn. Q. Can i get the extension in the same day ubinjoe? How long will it take pls. I believe it is only 1900 baht? My main place of residence will be living in her house 9 klms outside of Trat in the countryside. She has a 3 bedroom modern detached bungalow only 2 years old. She will take her house book and her Thai ID Card with her as proof and I can show them a map from Google how to get there. I will take my 10 year uk passport with me and my Thai car driving licence with me. Is this correct? Anything else I will need before I apply in the UK? as the lady in Thai Embassy in London was not helpful, could not get me off the phone quick enough. I am a little worried because she said i cannot get a Non imm O or an OA Visa in the uk because I must be over 65 and i must show that I am in receipt of the Gov old age pension as proof and get proof notarised whether it was for a single trip non o visa or not. I still have to ring Glasgow Thai consulte to see what they say but atleast they are a little more helpful, only 1 lady does all the visas and she has before told me to ring London for immigration answers to Thailand. Doesnt help if London gives incorrect answer? I value your answer ubonjoe from reading many of your other replies to other peoples enquiries, to me you certainly know your stuff when it comes to Visas. I will not go down the triple tourist visa route if I can get a single 90 day non imm o visa in Glasgow i think this will be the far easier route and less costly and time consuming. Q. Would I need to have my name on my gf house book or could I get both our names put onto her utility bills electric or water to help with proof? Is this a good idea or not? What is a yellow house book is this for a foreigner living with his thai girlfriend or would i have to get married first at an amphoe local office (tabien ban) I am just thinking ahead if and when I can get the 1 yr extension. I thank you for taking your valueable time to reply to me in advance. Roy. My timescale is 1. My House sale complete in uk on 1st July and proceeds go into my BOS current account. I will then book a Single Airfare to Bangkok instead of a return ticket next day or very soon after. Upon arriving at Bangkok I will have a 320 klm drive to Trat. 640 klms if I ever have to go to Bangkok to Embassies and overnight. This i will try and avoid but I know when we get married we both will have to go to Bangkok. Sorry I hate large cities. I have learned a lot from reading and being a member of Thai Visa.com I think it is great as long as the posts give accurate information and is very helpful. I count myself very lucky to find people like yourself are prepared to give up your own time to help others with accurate help and advice. Well done. I hope one day sometime in the future we could meet and have a drink and a chat so I could learn a lot more about Thailand hopefully my new home. Cheers.

[ubonjoe]

To get the single non-o visa. You will just need proof of funds from your bank no need for a notary stamp. You will need nothing more than your passport, application form and the fee to apply for it in Glasgow.

You will get the extension on the same day you apply for it. The fee is 1900 baht. Your girl friends house book and ID will serve as proof of residence for the application.

Since you will not be living very far from the immigration office it might be worthwhile to check in with them to find out their exact requirements.

[Rob Roy]

Thank you for your very quick reply that is exactly what I was wishing to hear. I will take your good advice. Bye for now.

[Rob Roy]

Thanks for your replies. Ubonjoe. I have phoned both the Royal Thai Embassy in London. They say in the uk I must travel in person to London to get either a single Non O long stay 1 yr extension / visa and for this I have to be over 50 yrs old and be in receipt of atleast 65,000 thb equivalent in my bank in the uk! Or equiv 800,000 thb in my bank and reporting every 90 days in Thailand. Plus I need a medical certificate, a police criminal check and a letter from my uk bank showing the above amounts or more. She said I had to get them all 3 notarised but I think she was meaning if I was applying for a Multi Non immigrant OA Visa. £125.

2 different ladies who admitted they do not have any qualified immigration officers in the embassy. Amazing!! They both advised Because I am not over 65 yrs old and in receipt of atleast 65,000 thb monthly pension with a letter from my pension provider as proof i would not be able to get the latter visa/extension.

In the Glasgow Royal Thai Consulate I was told i cannot get a Non Imm O Visa there, I would have to travel to London from Scotland £900 mile round trip an overnight stay, and bring the above proof and certs.

This trip I prefer not to do, I now believe my best option is simply to get either a single, double or triple tourist visa which would as u know give me the following if I do not manage to get an extension approved in Thailand in Bangkok and return 15 days later if I can get my first 1 year extension. 1900 baht. + 2 passport photos, copy of each page of my uk 10 yr passport (with 9 yrs still to go) + a letter from my kasikorn bank manager in Trat confirming I have more than 800k in my account (in my name only) ubinjoe does my account need to be a deposit savings account? To be honest I do not know what type of account my thai gf help me open. I have a bank book and an atm card. Either before I leave the uk or within 1 or 2nd week on arriving in Trat I will transfer approx 1 million baht for now. Later when I hope the baht weakens ? Maybe in 6 - 9 months time I will transfer the proceeds of my house sale in Scotland over to Thailand if the GBP goes to 55 thb to 1 GBP like it was last March. On Thursday the rate was up from a low of 47.3 to around 51.5 to 1 GBP. My gf will bring her Passport, housebook and her Thai ID Card with her as proof of where I will be living permanently in Thailand. Is this all i would need to obtain a 1 yr extension?

[Mario2008]

The embassy was giving information for the O-A visa, which is specifically for retirement.

Indeed, getting a tourist visa (single will be fine) might be best in your case and convert in Thailand.

Your bank account will be fine. What is not allowed is a savings account with a fixed term, during which term you cannot access the money. Since you have an ATM-card that is not the case here.

Next to the bankbook (updated) you will also need proof that the money came from abroad. (only required for the conversion).

You apply for 2,000 baht and return to BKK-immigration 15 days later. You will than get a permission to stay for 90 days. After 45 or 60 days you can then apply for a 1 year extension at Trat immigration for 1,900 baht. This time you need bankbook and bank letter, but no proof that the money came form abroad.

[OJAS]

OP - as an alternative to a non-O visa conversion in Thailand necessitating 2 trips to Bangkok, you might wish to consider doing a single trip to Vientiane in PDR Laos to obtain a non-O for long-stay retirement from the Royal Thai Embassy there. On the basis of reports on here they would appear to be rather more amenable to issuing non-O visas to prospective retirees than the honorary consulate in Glasgow. For info on the Embassy's requirements click on http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/en/consular/consular_check/

[ubonjoe]

The info I gave you was for getting a single entry non-o visa at the consulate in Glasgow. As I wrote before you cannot get one at the embassy in London.

You were given the same info you got before from the embassy. The embassy will only do the OA visa.

If you get a tourist visa it suggest you make a nice holiday type trip with your girl friend to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa. Just show the 800k baht in the bank when you apply for it. Much better than making two long trips from Trat to Bangkok.

[Rob Roy]

The info I gave you was for getting a single entry non-o visa at the consulate in Glasgow. As I wrote before you cannot get one at the embassy in London.

You were given the same info you got before from the embassy. The embassy will only do the OA visa.

If you get a tourist visa it suggest you make a nice holiday type trip with your girl friend to Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa. Just show the 800k baht in the bank when you apply for it. Much better than making two long trips from Trat to Bangkok.

l would like to thank everyone who has been kind enough to reply to my Document and proof information. I have been told I cannot get either a non imm O visa at the Glasgow Thai Consulate so I think I will get a single or a double tourist visa from Glasgow, I will transfer 1 Million Baht from my bank in Hamilton, Scotland over to Thailand just before I travel around 1st July. I will get a letter from my Bank Manager stating my bank balance and that the money is from my uk account that has been sent to Thailand as proof of where my funds came from. Later I intend to transfer a lot larger amount when time is right (better exchange rate) I will also go to my Kasikorn bank in TRAT and obtain a letter from the manager about my bank balance over 800,000 Baht in my account after 2 months in my account. Thanks for the good advice about the type of bank account the money had to be in to qualify for a 1 yr extension. I will take my girlfriend to Vientienne, Where exactly is this place and what in your opinion would be the best way to travel there?? Trat is approx 90 kilometeres from the Cambodian border at Hat Lek. Last year I went to the police immigration office in Laem Gnop to get my 30 day extension 1900 baht then into Cambodia and back into Thailand later the same day using my 2nd Tourist Visa. What time would I need to arrive at the Royal Thai Embassy in Vietenne to submit my application for a 1 year extension. Is this called a NON IMMIGRANT O VISA? then I would do 90 day reporting online or in person at Leam Gnop. If I have picked you up correctly at the end of my 1 year extension inside of 45 days where do I have to go to get another 90 extension? then I apply for another 1 yr non o extension is this correct or am I getting confused. Last year was the very first time I had travelled to Thailand and that was only for 3 months to go and live with my thai girlfriend in her bungalow just outside of Trat. I then returned on 22nd October 2014 until 9th February 2015 again living with my girlfriend. I do not know where any of these other embassy in the neighbouring countries are but I shall look them up on google maps. Trat is 320 klms from Bangkok (640 klms) a long drive there and back and I am sure I think Vientienne would be even further?? Luckily Trat does have its own airport, I think one can only get a flight to Bangkok then connect from there?? approx £178 one way for two adults with Bangkok Airways. Any other route information would be most helpful. I promised that I would take my gf to visit Chian Mai sometime and I would like to visit Phuket or Koh Samui sometime. Which is the better of the two? I am not into places where the age group is 20-30 and too many drunks around who cannot hold their alcohol. We do enjoy a drink and a few dances and the beach or a nice swimming pool in a nice hotel, nice scenery. Suggestions welcome. We have no kids. I would like to live long term in Thailand and make it my new permanent home and most likely get married at some point in the future. QUESTION: When would be the right time to travel to Vietenne to get a Non IMM O Visa then a 1 yr extension. Would I go during my first 15 days of my 30 days extention obtained at Laem Gnop? Thank you in advance for any replies. Kind Regards Roy.

[ubonjoe]

If you get a single entry tourist visa you could go to Vientiane for your non-o visa at any time before your 60 day entry ends.

You need to apply for the visa prior to 11.30 am the morning of one day and then pick it up the next afternoon.

You will only need your bank book showing the 800k bank book to a apply for the non-o visa in Vientiane. No need for any letters from the bank.

After you get the non-o visa you will be able to apply for the extension of stay at immigration during the last 30 days of the 90 day entry you will get from it. You need a letter from your bank confirming the balance and your bank book to prove the money has been in the bank for 60 days.

Google maps show it to be 777 kilometers from Trat city to Vientiane. You could make it a leisurely trip by spending the night along the way. If you did an overnight in Khon Kaen you could get up early the next morning, travel to Nong Khai park the car, cross the bridge to Vientiane and apply for the visa.

By air you would have to go to Bangkok first. You can fly to Udon Thani from Bangkok (dmk) and then from there it is short van ride to the bridge in Nong Khai.

[Rob Roy]

Thanks for your very quick reply. Excellent just what i needed to know. When i go to Vientiane during 60 day period is it correct that i will not need to have my 800k in my bank for 60 days B4 i get my non-o visa? I just show my bank book. Then in my last 30 day extn by that time i will have my money in bank for more than the 60 day period. After i get a 1 yr extension with 90 day reporting will I have to go to Vientiane every year or will this be a one off trip? If i do not have to leave the country every year will I then have to go once to Bangkok immigration to get my 2nd one year extension based on retirement or would i be able to get this from Laem Gnop immigration office?

[Rob Roy]

Kind Regards . Roy.

[ubonjoe]

Thanks for your very quick reply. Excellent just what i needed to know. When i go to Vientiane during 60 day period is it correct that i will not need to have my 800k in my bank for 60 days B4 i get my non-o visa? I just show my bank book. Then in my last 30 day extn by that time i will have my money in bank for more than the 60 day period. After i get a 1 yr extension with 90 day reporting will I have to go to Vientiane every year or will this be a one off trip? If i do not have to leave the country every year will I then have to go once to Bangkok immigration to get my 2nd one year extension based on retirement or would i be able to get this from Laem Gnop immigration office?

When you apply for the non-o visa the money does not need to be int the bank for 60 days.

You will only need the money to be in the bank for 60 days on the day you apply for your extension,

After you get your first extension you can keep applying for a new one every year for infinity at your local immigration office,

[Rob Roy]

FANTASTIC I cannot thank you enough everyone who has been kind enough to give up their time to help me and other people. This is just what I was hoping to hear. A good idea for a short holiday with my Thai GF to go to Vientiane for the non-o visa. I did not realise it was quite so far away 770 klms 481 miles i may just fly to Bangkok and then onto Udon Thani. Would we both have to get a LAOS visa? to go to the Thai Consulate if so what docs will I need other than my passport and my bank book please. I am guessing my thai partner will not need a visa. What is the name of the border crossing and name of place? to get into Laos then onto Vientiane. Again many thanks to everyone who has replied to my post. One last thing! I am fairly new to using Thai Visa Forum website is there a guide on how to use the site somewhere? This is a great tool and site for expats as long as you are lucky to talk to the right people who has the correct up to date knowledge especially when it comes to Visas and immigration enquiries. This ti me is a brilliant web site for all topics. Roy. Forgot can I pay for the non-o visa in Laos in Thai Baht 2000? I do not even know what currency is in Laos name?

Can anyone recommend the name of a medium priced hotel with a swimming pool in Vientiane for a couple of nights may be more please.

[ubonjoe]

If your girl friend has a a passport she will get a 30 day visa exempt entry. If not she will need to get a border pass (30 to 50 baht) that will allow her to stay for 3 days in Laos.

You will get a Lao visa on arrival the that will cost $35 or 1500 baht. You will need a photo for the application.

You will just need your passport plus a copy of the photo page, your bank book plus a copy showing at least 800k baht and a completed application form with 2 photos attached to apply for the non-o visa.

Info about the embassy's consular section's location and download of application form can be found here. http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/en/consular/consular_check/ Warning you will find info on the webpage for a Laotian to get a OA long stay visa under the non-o category that does not apply to you.

You could look for info about hotels and etc here for Vientiane. Latest Reports Of Getting A Visa In The Region

[Rob Roy]

Thanks for your valuable information. My gf does have a passport. She used to live in Austria and was married to an Austrian for 11 years in Linz up until 2011. She speaks and writes fluent deutch and some english. I will print out the form and fill it in. Is it in Thai or what language? I have just taken 15 new passport photos in the uk to keep me going for a few years. I probably will need one or 2 photos to extend my 1 yr temporary driving licence into a 5 year licence in Nov 2015. What is the name of the border inmigration check point between Thailand & Laos? Pls. I will ask her to get the 30 day visa exempt entry. Is there any other docs etc she needs to have to get exempt entry. So we can take your good advice and have a little holiday. Have you visited Vientaine for more than 3 days? Is it a nice place to stay for say 7 days? or do you think 3 days will be long enough places to visit? Whilst I am in Scotland we communicate via Skype video so I will tell her we will be going to Laos within my first 60 days. Kind Regards. Roy.

[ubonjoe]

All she needs for entry to Laos is her passport valid for at least 6 months.

The application form is multi lingual with English being one of the languages.

You cross at the friendship bridge in Nong Khai (mentioned in post #11).

It has been several years since I was in Vientiane. My wife enjoyed our trips to Laos but she does speak a bit of Lao being that she is from here in Isaan. The last time there we spent 3 days (4 once in Savannakhet).

[Rob Roy]

Thanks for very quick reply. Where is Isaan? And Savannakhet, names new to me but good to learn sooner than later?

[Lite Beer]

Isaan = A vast area of Thailand. North East of the country.
Savannakhet = Town in Laos not far from Mukdahan in Thailand (Isaan)

[ubonjoe]

Isaan is another name for northeast Thailand.

Savannakhet is across the river from Mukdahan. There is a Thai consulate there but they would not do your non-o.

[Rob Roy]

Today I am a little more knowledgeable about where Isssn is and Savannakhet. I have read these place names in other posts and had no idea where they were now I do. Many thanks to everyone for your replies. This has been very helpful to me as a new comer to Thailand.

[Rob Roy]

Your info is invalueable to me for the future, I would not have known I could not get a Non O Visa in Savannakhet. My gf has a friend who lives in Udon Thani that i think is also North east Thailand? We may fly to Bangkok from Trat then take a flight to Udon Thani and may be her friend will take us to the border and onto Vientaine. How far is Vientaine from the border check point pls?

[ubonjoe]

You are for all intents and purposes in Vientiane as soon as you cross the bridge. From there into the center of town it is a short taxi or tuk tuk ride.

[Rob Roy]

That is good news. I believe I have all the information i will need to get my Non O Visa and from where and how thanks to you. I can now leave everyone in peace for a while. I will let you know how I get on in Vientaine. Cheers. Roy.

[Lite Beer]

Yes, Udon is in Isaan. Not too far from the border.

[Rob Roy]

Hello again. I have just read over the document/evidence that is required to get a Non Immigrant O Visa Single entry to Thailand. (Long stay based on retirement over age of 50) It is stating like in the UK the following is required.

1. Passport copies+ 2 new size photos 350cm x 450 cm on either a white or cream background.

2. Download and fill out the Application form.

Q. Where it asks for the reason for your stay in Thailand what should my answer be. A. For long stay retirement or to live with my thai gf and future wife or what pls? Q. Upon entering at border Thai - PDR LAOS what reason do I put for entering Laos. To obtain a Non o visa or Tourism? It asks at what address will we be staying at in Laos, Will I have to pre-book a Hotel or a guesthouse first! Before arriving at the border immigration point? I see there is a restaurent guesthouse just across the road from the New Consular address to get the visa. It says one does not go to the Royal Thai Embassy anymore.

3. My main concern. It now says I will need to have all of the following to get a 1 yr long stay non immigrant O Visa in Vientiane Consul.

A. A criminal check or a police cert stating that I have no criminal past.

B. A medical Certificate.

C. A letter stating that I have 800,000 baht in my bank for 3 months.

Q. This looks as if they now may not grant a non o visa single entry unless I have money in bank first. What it does not say is, if this visa docs/proof is for a Multi or a single entry requirement? OMG i think one would need to be an immigration officer to follow all of these different types of visas and exemptions. I will have to take time from the very beginning to learn all about immigration and visas. If it were not for the kindness and good hearted people here on Thai Visa Visa forum I would not have a clue. (Brilliant expat web site in my opinion.

Will I still get a single entry 1 yr long stay with 90 day reporting non o visa in Vientiane? If i do not have my 800k my bank for 2 or 3 mths. I will have my 800k in my bank definately during my 1st 30 extension to my Tourist visa after my 60 days i will get my extn at Laem Gnop. I think I am getting mixed up? I thought I can go to Vientiane and get a single entry non imm o visa pay 2000 baht with my passport & 2 photos and my bank book showing 800k but not! weathered for 2 or 3 mths in Vientiane. I understood if I managed to get this visa I would then go to my kasikorn bank mngr get a letter stating that I have had 800k in my account more than 60 days. Then we both would go to Laem Gnop Police Immigration office and apply there for my 1 year long stay non o visa with 90 day reporting and pay another 2000 baht. Then for first 3 quarterly reporting I can do this online. Then Within my last 45 days I return to Laem Gnop in person with my gf and all docs/proof and an up to day bank book same day or the day before but this time letter needs to say atleast for 3 months 800k in my own seperate account. I also do not need any medical certificate or a police criminal check and then I should get my 1 year non O EXTENSION. I think with your help I have got this correct.

I was just concerned why on Vientiane appl form it is asking for 3 months 800k in bank and these other certs. I await your confirmation that I can ignore what it says on their application I will download from your link I have received. Thanks again in advance for everyones help. It is really appreciated. Kind Regards. Roy.

[Maestro]

...

3. My main concern. It now says I will need to have all of the following to get a 1 yr long stay non immigrant O Visa in Vientiane Consul.

A. A criminal check or a police cert stating that I have no criminal past.

B. A medical Certificate.

C. A letter stating that I have 800,000 baht in my bank for 3 months.

...

It appears you are referring to this web page: http://vientiane.thaiembassy.org/vientiane/en/consular/consular_check/

The "Non–Immigrant "O" For the purpose of long-stay retirement" mentioned on that page is the non-immigrant visa category O-A (long stay), application for which in Vientiane is limited to nationals or permanent residents of Laos. Do you fall into one of these two categories?