Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[VanZam]

Unbelievable!!..... non-b is now also out!

Are we all now in a reality show “The survivor Thailand”?

Please tune in tomorrow to see….who will be eliminated next!

Did you mix it up with non-immigrant type "I" or is non-immigrant type "B" gone also?

[snakestick]

Unbelievable!!..... non-b is now also out!

Are we all now in a reality show “The survivor Thailand”?

Please tune in tomorrow to see….who will be eliminated next!

Exactly. I've always said NEVER own here just rent. Well........a great deal came along that the 'business man' inside me just couldn't pass up. So I bought a piece of land.....and just finished having fill dirt put in......plans to build in January. Now????

Eye've always told people the exact same thing and they all said eye was nuts

[Soju]

Being this thread was started on 9/11, maybe we should call these new immigration policies Thai 9/11. Just as America's 9/11 had a huge impact on people and how they travel and how they see the world, it's looking like the Thai 9/11 will have a drastic impact on how farangs live in Thailand and view the country.

[jezchesters]

I SEE THE FRENZY CONTINUES TODAY AS WELL

The Bangkok Post and the Forbes articles misquoted the term VOA for US/UK/EU nationalities. A visa is NOT required for citizens from those countries enterting the Kingdom . On arrival you are issued a 30 day permission to stay stamp, which is being called a VOA. Seeing as there is no visa stamped into your passport it's not that at all, it's more a "Permitted To Stay Until" stamp. US/UK/EU are VISA EXEMPT entry countries.

Tourist Visa's, either 30 or 60 day stays, can be had easily in any Asian country bordering Thailand, even w/multiple re-entrys (albeit they are not free, nor is the multiple re-entry). I even believe at Don Muang there is a counter where you can fill out a Tourist Visa application before getting into the line at immigrations, although I could be wrong.

Those same valid Tourist Visas (30 or 60 day) can be extended at Thai Immigrations twice, first for 30 days, then again for an additional 15 days (granted at a cost of 1900B per extension). In theory that would give someone on a 60 Day Tourist Visa a total stay in the Kingdom of 105 days before they'd have to even leave the Kingdom. No border run, no nothing. Once the 105 days have expired you then would have to leave the Kingdom, apply for another Tourist Visa, and do the procedure again.

There has been no mention of curtailing or limiting the number of VALID Tourist Visas in a person's passport, so you should still be able to get them as easily as you can now, and have pages of them in your passport.

The "loophole" on the countries who are visa exempt and issued 30 day "Permitted To Stay" stamps has had the law in place for a while to curtail chronic offenders the endless entries, but not been inforced.

If people switched to VALID 30 or 60 Day Tourist Visas, (again; not to be confused w/Visa Exempt "Permitted to Stay" stamps) I think it would be a work around to the coming changes.

Again, while the new enforcement doesn't affect me I am sympathetic to the many people who's lives are affected.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

If anyone can offer a valid explanation why what I outlined concerning Tourist Visas won't work, please let me know, as I perused the articles closely. I saw nothing mentioned about any other type of Visa aside from the misquoted VOA. (which as I've said are Visa Exempt 30 day "Permitted to Stay" stamps for most "First Worlders").

take care,

tod in Krung Thep

Well done Todd! Finally someone that has calmed down enough to read what has actually been written on the subject!

I had a lot of dealings with the IND whilst managing a language school back in the UK, so have some idea about the terminology involved. From the original article we have quotes such as:

"Currently, tourists from http://www.thaivisa.com/479.0.html can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days. They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps."

"Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law"

OK - first things first - this only applies to people that don't have a visa. It doesn't apply to people with tourist visas.

This has nothing to do with Visa on Arrival. If you are a citizen from anyone of the 41 countries mentioned and you arrive in the Kingdom, you are automatically given 30 days Leave to Remain. This saves you the hassle of applying for a visa if you are coming over for a short holiday. If you are coming for longer, all you have to do is apply for the appropriate visa before coming to Thailand.

Secondly, if you do decide to not apply for a visa, but decide to renew your Leave to Remain by crossing a border and then returning, we have the question of whether we are talking about 90 aggregate days.

Again, look at the original article:

"From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days."

In other words, 3 seperate periods of stay in Thailand, not totalling more than 90 days.

eg: 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 20 days - leave Thailand for 10 days - return and get a new 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 3 days - leave Thailand for 1 day - return and get a new 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 15 days - leave Thailand

In all, you would have spent 38 days in Thailand out of 49 days. Follwing this, you would then have to leave Thailand for a minimum of 90 days - but only if the next time you returned, you did so without a visa and wanted to use the 30 day Leave to Remain again. If you returned with a valid visa, this would not apply.

This is because, as mentioned in the article, you would have had your entry stamps renewed twice at most

As mentioned by other posters, I'm guessing that the reason for this is that it encourages people to apply for the appropriate visa if they intend to stay in Thailand for an extended period of time. This serves two purposes: firstly you have to go through the application process at the relevant consulate, thus aiding security; and secondly, the govenment actually makes some money out of your visa fees, rather than some privately owned visa-running company.

Funnily enough, the IND did a very similar thing in the UK when it came to granting Student Visas for non-EU and Commonwealth citizens...

Hope that all made sense!

Jez

[andyc2006]

You're right, they will pull the info right from the computer screen. I'll tell you this too, they won't be counting days as somebuddy suggested, but rather they will look for the 3 entries within 90 days

then it will still be so easy to game the system that there's no point making the changes, or worrying about them.

tourist 1: 3 entries that fail for a person who tries to enter on Dec 29 (by what you described): October 1 - October 3, Nov 1 - 3, Dec 1 - 3.

tourist 2: 3 entries that are ok for a person who tries to enter on Dec 29 (by what you described): Sep 30 - Oct 29, Oct 31 - Nov 29, Nov 30 - Dec 29.

so the real tourist is turned away, because in the prior 90 days, he has 3 entries, even though he has only spent 9 days in thailand.

the visa-running pseudo-tourist who lives in thailand only has 2 entries in the last 90 days, so even though he's been in thailand 88 of those 90 days, he's admitted.

amend your rules... and i'll find another easy way to game them.

unless you count days, ain't no way to do this right (right being defined as allowing "real" tourists into thailand, and forcing the people living there indefinitely on tourist visas to leave).

[jezchesters]

You're right, they will pull the info right from the computer screen. I'll tell you this too, they won't be counting days as somebuddy suggested, but rather they will look for the 3 entries within 90 days

then it will still be so easy to game the system that there's no point making the changes, or worrying about them.

tourist 1: 3 entries that fail for a person who tries to enter on Dec 29 (by what you described): October 1 - October 3, Nov 1 - 3, Dec 1 - 3.

tourist 2: 3 entries that are ok for a person who tries to enter on Dec 29 (by what you described): Sep 30 - Oct 29, Oct 31 - Nov 29, Nov 30 - Dec 29.

so the real tourist is turned away, because in the prior 90 days, he has 3 entries, even though he has only spent 9 days in thailand.

the visa-running pseudo-tourist who lives in thailand only has 2 entries in the last 90 days, so even though he's been in thailand 88 of those 90 days, he's admitted.

amend your rules... and i'll find another easy way to game them.

unless you count days, ain't no way to do this right (right being defined as allowing "real" tourists into thailand, and forcing the people living there indefinitely on tourist visas to leave).

That's what it seems to say in the article...

[BKK90210]

Unbelievable!!..... non-b is now also out!

Are we all now in a reality show “The survivor Thailand”?

Please tune in tomorrow to see….who will be eliminated next!

Did you mix it up with non-immigrant type "I" or is non-immigrant type "B" gone also?

"I" or "B" or whatever that has to do with " the 3 million baht investment visa"

According to Sunbelt Asia that ....

"as of October 1, 2006 the 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available.

This includes bank investments, condominium investments, and bond investments.

Not only will it NOT be issued, but you CANNOT renew your current investment visa on this basis.

The official statement from Thai immigration is expected this week."

If it's for "I" today, Who knows....may be "B" will be the next to go also?

[bakswanna]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

I'm married to a thai, and I have a one year marriage visa, and only had to prove that my husband has a valid bank account (that only had about 7000 baht in it at the time). I guess there are some good things about a non-feminist government, not all the same rules apply...

[Cheeky Farang]

So the answer is to get the "ThaiEliteCard" with all the benefits it brings, I reckon it's Toxin way of getting his projected numbers

Link

SPECIAL VISA PRIVILEGE

All Thailand Elite Members will be granted a special entry visa when applying at any Thai Embassy, Thai Consulate Office, or at the Thai Immigration Office at any point of entry. This special entry visa is a five year multiple entry visa and is renewable when your passport expires or it is replaced. You will not be required to pay any fees since you are a Thailand Elite Member. You are granted a 90 day stay each time you visit Thailand.*

Obtaining a new visa after the first five year visa

All members are welcome to obtain a new special entry visa after the first five year visa has expired, free of charge.

Stay extension for Member and immediate family

Should any Member and immediate family wish to stay in Thailand beyond the 90 day period,a stay extension is required. Extensions can be obtained at any immigration check point with a fee of THB 1,900.

90 day stay privilege will be extended to your immediate family members

Upon arrival, your immediate family travelling together with you (lawful husband or wife) will get 30 day** stay visa. An extension stay for 90 days may be processed later on. A marriage certificate or a certification letter from your embassy or consulate office is required.

If you are a Muslim, only your lawful spouse and children (according to international law) shall qualify. Please contact our Member Contact Centre three days or more in advance for their extension.

For your unmarried sons or daughters, in order for them to get the same privilege, your son must not be over 20 years of age and your daughter must not be over 22 years of age.

Your parents are also entitled to this privilege by showing proof of your relationship at any Thai Embassy or Thai Consulate Office (birth certificates or a certification letter from your embassy will satisfy this requirement).

You can obtain a stay extension at any immigration office or at any immigration check point throughout Thailand except Don Muang Airport immigration check point. Alternatively, extend your stay at any appointed places stated by Thailand Elite.

GOVERNMENT CONCIERGE

Thailand Elite streamlines the process of dealing with government regulations and processes with our government concierge service. Whether your needs range from immigration processing to exploring investment opportunities, Thailand Elite can assist you in dealing with the proper government channels in the most efficient manner.

Immigration Service

Thailand Elite Members are automatically entitled to a five-year multiple entry visa that is valid for 90 days each trip and can be extended without having to leave the country as many times as needed. This allows a virtually unlimited length of stay within Thailand. Members can apply for extensions at any approved location throughout the country and overseas. For most cases, with all the proper documentation available, processing will normally take only one day.

Driver's License

As Thailand does not accept international driver's licenses from overseas, Members wishing to command their own motor vehicle here will need to have a Thai driver's license. Thailand Elite assists Members to make sure they have all the proper documentation and guides them along with the process. This does not exempt the Member from any requisite testing. For most cases, with all the proper documentation available, processing will normally take only one day.

Work Permit

All foreigners working in Thailand are required to have a work permit. Thailand Elite understands the arduous process that getting a work permit entails and streamlines the procedure with our service. We consult with the Member to make sure that all the requisite documentation is at hand and that they go through the process in only the most efficient manner, dealing with the appropriate government departments.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Cheeky Farang

[libya 115]

As sure as eggs are eggs the next visa to go will be the multiple tourist visa, particularly those issued outside of the visitors home country.

The London Thai embassy, won't issue them, and I emailed them a few years ago asking why not?; they said they don't issue them (at that time 2003 I think) because sic 'we are phasing them out'.

So I suspect they will be next to go; and in future a single entry tourist visa (valid for 3 months) and good for 60 days plus one 30 day extension, then one 15 day extension will be the maximum.

[andyc2006]

A more scary thought is that there will be more restrictions on other visa types... seems that everytime I go away from my computer I come back to find another X thousand of people have been screwed.

or other restrictions.

for example, i have a stamp in my passport that says, "you very bad man. black heart. one time you come thailand, stay 10 days too many. now monitor lizard ghost haunt you. sum num na."

well, i think that's what it says. i can't read thai so maybe it's saying i'm a perfect 10. who knows?

but maybe they'll stop letting those of us with that stamp in our passport enter thailand.

[Oleg_Rus]

Cool !!!

I see whole lot of court cases ... Lotsa money, shame and so. At one moment group of farang will open group case against issuer of such a visa for refunds and compensations.

Truly, one or two couldn't do a thing, but properly organised group case with powers of attorneys , patience and sum back up money will do things just right!

Can't wait to see that!

[andyc2006]

I SEE THE FRENZY CONTINUES TODAY AS WELL

The Bangkok Post and the Forbes articles misquoted the term VOA for US/UK/EU nationalities. A visa is NOT required for citizens from those countries enterting the Kingdom . On arrival you are issued a 30 day permission to stay stamp, which is being called a VOA. Seeing as there is no visa stamped into your passport it's not that at all, it's more a "Permitted To Stay Until" stamp. US/UK/EU are VISA EXEMPT entry countries.

Tourist Visa's, either 30 or 60 day stays, can be had easily in any Asian country bordering Thailand, even w/multiple re-entrys (albeit they are not free, nor is the multiple re-entry). I even believe at Don Muang there is a counter where you can fill out a Tourist Visa application before getting into the line at immigrations, although I could be wrong.

Those same valid Tourist Visas (30 or 60 day) can be extended at Thai Immigrations twice, first for 30 days, then again for an additional 15 days (granted at a cost of 1900B per extension). In theory that would give someone on a 60 Day Tourist Visa a total stay in the Kingdom of 105 days before they'd have to even leave the Kingdom. No border run, no nothing. Once the 105 days have expired you then would have to leave the Kingdom, apply for another Tourist Visa, and do the procedure again.

There has been no mention of curtailing or limiting the number of VALID Tourist Visas in a person's passport, so you should still be able to get them as easily as you can now, and have pages of them in your passport.

The "loophole" on the countries who are visa exempt and issued 30 day "Permitted To Stay" stamps has had the law in place for a while to curtail chronic offenders the endless entries, but not been inforced.

If people switched to VALID 30 or 60 Day Tourist Visas, (again; not to be confused w/Visa Exempt "Permitted to Stay" stamps) I think it would be a work around to the coming changes.

Again, while the new enforcement doesn't affect me I am sympathetic to the many people who's lives are affected.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

If anyone can offer a valid explanation why what I outlined concerning Tourist Visas won't work, please let me know, as I perused the articles closely. I saw nothing mentioned about any other type of Visa aside from the misquoted VOA. (which as I've said are Visa Exempt 30 day "Permitted to Stay" stamps for most "First Worlders").

take care,

tod in Krung Thep

i'm sure that you're correct when you point out the difference between a tourist visa and a "permit to stay," but it does make me wonder why they keep stamping "visa class" in my passport and scribbling some thai characters after it, when i'm only being granted the "permit to stay."

and in the end, since both the Permit To Stay and Tourist Visa are (ab)used the same way (combined with visa runs to stay indefinitely), i suspect that it's a matter of time before they attempt to "reform" both vehicles.

[Maestro]

After much searching I have finally found the Bangkok Post article.

Forget the Bangkok Post article! That reporter obviously didn’t have a clue what the commissioner was talking about and/or did not know English well enough to report correctly what the commissioner said.

Instead, read the news item in post #1 of this thread and the additional clarification in post #380.

---------------

Maestro

[jezchesters]

I SEE THE FRENZY CONTINUES TODAY AS WELL

The Bangkok Post and the Forbes articles misquoted the term VOA for US/UK/EU nationalities. A visa is NOT required for citizens from those countries enterting the Kingdom . On arrival you are issued a 30 day permission to stay stamp, which is being called a VOA. Seeing as there is no visa stamped into your passport it's not that at all, it's more a "Permitted To Stay Until" stamp. US/UK/EU are VISA EXEMPT entry countries.

Tourist Visa's, either 30 or 60 day stays, can be had easily in any Asian country bordering Thailand, even w/multiple re-entrys (albeit they are not free, nor is the multiple re-entry). I even believe at Don Muang there is a counter where you can fill out a Tourist Visa application before getting into the line at immigrations, although I could be wrong.

Those same valid Tourist Visas (30 or 60 day) can be extended at Thai Immigrations twice, first for 30 days, then again for an additional 15 days (granted at a cost of 1900B per extension). In theory that would give someone on a 60 Day Tourist Visa a total stay in the Kingdom of 105 days before they'd have to even leave the Kingdom. No border run, no nothing. Once the 105 days have expired you then would have to leave the Kingdom, apply for another Tourist Visa, and do the procedure again.

There has been no mention of curtailing or limiting the number of VALID Tourist Visas in a person's passport, so you should still be able to get them as easily as you can now, and have pages of them in your passport.

The "loophole" on the countries who are visa exempt and issued 30 day "Permitted To Stay" stamps has had the law in place for a while to curtail chronic offenders the endless entries, but not been inforced.

If people switched to VALID 30 or 60 Day Tourist Visas, (again; not to be confused w/Visa Exempt "Permitted to Stay" stamps) I think it would be a work around to the coming changes.

Again, while the new enforcement doesn't affect me I am sympathetic to the many people who's lives are affected.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

If anyone can offer a valid explanation why what I outlined concerning Tourist Visas won't work, please let me know, as I perused the articles closely. I saw nothing mentioned about any other type of Visa aside from the misquoted VOA. (which as I've said are Visa Exempt 30 day "Permitted to Stay" stamps for most "First Worlders").

take care,

tod in Krung Thep

i'm sure that you're correct when you point out the difference between a tourist visa and a "permit to stay," but it does make me wonder why they keep stamping "visa class" in my passport and scribbling some thai characters after it, when i'm only being granted the "permit to stay."

and in the end, since both the Permit To Stay and Tourist Visa are (ab)used the same way (combined with visa runs to stay indefinitely), i suspect that it's a matter of time before they attempt to "reform" both vehicles.

There should be something written next to "Visa Class" on the stamp in your passport. What does it say? It should indicate the type of visa your stay is based on...

eg: The rectangular date stamp in my passport has VISA CLASS in print, and then Non B in biro next to it. It's not saying that you have "Visa Class", its just a space for them to make a note of what visa class you do have on the date stamp.

[zxray]

Does anyone think they are done, or are they in the proccess of revamping all visa classes?

Ray

[andyc2006]

There should be something written next to "Visa Class" on the stamp in your passport. What does it say? It should indicate the type of visa your stay is based on...

eg: The rectangular date stamp in my passport has VISA CLASS in print, and then Non B in biro next to it. It's not saying that you have "Visa Class", its just a space for them to make a note of what visa class you do have on the date stamp.

it says: two squiggly little things that i'm slightly too buzzed to try to type. not my native tongue though, whatever it's saying.

[tcnofear]

well shiver my timbers I am not a pirate.

I came to the land of smile this time in 23 Feb 06 I have a car, motorbike and a house full of normal living items I leased a home near Pak Kret and have been living on my own money (in overseas accounts ) do not have a Thai Bank Acc. I have a Thai girlfriend and have been help pay for her life needs and wants, I have been doing my "border runs" and I do not work. So I go to Lao or Penang and apply for a 3month tourist visa and then I will look at the retirement visa situation but what I do not understand is do the new "allowed to stay stamps " rule apply after the 1/10/06 ie I will do a "stay stamp run" on the 16th Sept. then my first new rule "stay stamp run " would be done on the 15/10/06 No2 on 14/11/06 No3 would be 13/12/06 leaving the country on the 12/1/07 for a term of 90days or more ARE MY CALCS CORRECT ????????? HELP. ONE NON PIRATE CONFUSED.

tcbangkok

Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006

Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said.

The move, which takes effect October 1, would affect tourists from 41 countries including Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US, said Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, the head of the bureau.

Currently, tourists from 41 countries can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days.

They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps.

'Under the current rules, people from those countries can stay in Thailand as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year,' another bureau official said.

The bureau had learned that a growing number of foreigners from the 41 countries worked illegally in Thailand, Suwat said, adding many were employed in bars and restaurants in the popular seaside resort of Pattaya, east of Bangkok.

'Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law. Instead of sightseeing, they are doing business here,' Suwat said.

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

--forbes.com 2006-09-10

[melonf]

On another tangent...is the proposed raising of the drinking age to 25 related to this set of rule changes designed to rid Thailand of farang riff raff.

It will surely mean that back packers are encouraged to go elsewhere and may do a fair bit to curtail the naughty nightlife too.

[andyc2006]

On another tangent...is the proposed raising of the drinking age to 25 related to this set of rule changes designed to rid Thailand of farang riff raff.

It will surely mean that back packers are encouraged to go elsewhere and may do a fair bit to curtail the naughty nightlife too.

hmm... we must have been reading different articles.

i read that they'll impose both upper and lower bounds on the drinking age.

in the future to drink alcohol in thailand, you'll need to be at least 50 years old but no more than 64 years old.

i think they called it the "TRT: they finally have big money but not big health problems yet" initiative.

[snakestick]

Does anyone think they are done, or are they in the proccess of revamping all visa classes?

Ray

excellent question. this could be a complete overhaul of all visa types. wonder how the high and mighties will feel about potenially being affected as well. That would be justice I suppose to those who thought they were comfy in their visa situations while looking down at those in a predicament over these developments. All i can say is watch your back, you may be next

[zxray]

Does anyone think they are done, or are they in the proccess of revamping all visa classes?

Ray

excellent question. this could be a complete overhaul of all visa types. wonder how the high and mighties will feel about potenially being affected as well. That would be justice I suppose to those who thought they were comfy in their visa situations while looking down at those in a predicament over these developments. All i can say is watch your back, you may be next

First the foriegn corporations, tesco, Big C etc. then the visa runners, now investment visas, Seems that they are rethinking all foreingn involvement in Thailand, could be a busy week, with a lot more changes to come.

[VanZam]

All this and then....

"Thai government confirms attempts of military coup"

Could the last one out turn off the lights...

[george and dragon]

Hi there...

Just to add some information to this topic i have just been in contact with immagration and they have told me this law will only take affect for tourists...

If you are married to a Thai then you have 2 options. option A. you deposit 400,000 baht in to a thai bank and get a 1 year visa or : option B. you go to laos and get a 3 month Non O visa and this will be allowed to be repeated.

The end of border runs as from Oct 1 will apply to tourists only.

Cheers .

George and dragon pub.

Korat.

[mrtoad]

Bendix, It's not quite Nazi Germany - the point I'm trying to make, is that there were a lot of people initially gloating in respect of the fact that they had different types of Visa and that they were okay, so it was tuff luck on the others.

Well, it appears that the plot is slowly unravelling - limits on Visa, property ownership, foreign investment, foreign development etc, etc....

So, one could certainly say there are some similarities in the process.

Anyway, I'm not going to say I'm allright jack, cos the rate this is going that could change to in the next few days.

Where will this end?

[dog412]

the thai consuls in vientiane and phnom penh have already BEEN scrutinizing passports for tourist visas previously issued, and denying issuance of the newly applied for visa.

[VBF]

I SEE THE FRENZY CONTINUES TODAY AS WELL

The Bangkok Post and the Forbes articles misquoted the term VOA for US/UK/EU nationalities. A visa is NOT required for citizens from those countries enterting the Kingdom . On arrival you are issued a 30 day permission to stay stamp, which is being called a VOA. Seeing as there is no visa stamped into your passport it's not that at all, it's more a "Permitted To Stay Until" stamp. US/UK/EU are VISA EXEMPT entry countries.

Tourist Visa's, either 30 or 60 day stays, can be had easily in any Asian country bordering Thailand, even w/multiple re-entrys (albeit they are not free, nor is the multiple re-entry). I even believe at Don Muang there is a counter where you can fill out a Tourist Visa application before getting into the line at immigrations, although I could be wrong.

Those same valid Tourist Visas (30 or 60 day) can be extended at Thai Immigrations twice, first for 30 days, then again for an additional 15 days (granted at a cost of 1900B per extension). In theory that would give someone on a 60 Day Tourist Visa a total stay in the Kingdom of 105 days before they'd have to even leave the Kingdom. No border run, no nothing. Once the 105 days have expired you then would have to leave the Kingdom, apply for another Tourist Visa, and do the procedure again.

There has been no mention of curtailing or limiting the number of VALID Tourist Visas in a person's passport, so you should still be able to get them as easily as you can now, and have pages of them in your passport.

The "loophole" on the countries who are visa exempt and issued 30 day "Permitted To Stay" stamps has had the law in place for a while to curtail chronic offenders the endless entries, but not been inforced.

If people switched to VALID 30 or 60 Day Tourist Visas, (again; not to be confused w/Visa Exempt "Permitted to Stay" stamps) I think it would be a work around to the coming changes.

Again, while the new enforcement doesn't affect me I am sympathetic to the many people who's lives are affected.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

If anyone can offer a valid explanation why what I outlined concerning Tourist Visas won't work, please let me know, as I perused the articles closely. I saw nothing mentioned about any other type of Visa aside from the misquoted VOA. (which as I've said are Visa Exempt 30 day "Permitted to Stay" stamps for most "First Worlders").

take care,

tod in Krung Thep

Well done Todd! Finally someone that has calmed down enough to read what has actually been written on the subject!

I had a lot of dealings with the IND whilst managing a language school back in the UK, so have some idea about the terminology involved. From the original article we have quotes such as:

"Currently, tourists from http://www.thaivisa.com/479.0.html can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days. They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps."

"Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law"

OK - first things first - this only applies to people that don't have a visa. It doesn't apply to people with tourist visas.

This has nothing to do with Visa on Arrival. If you are a citizen from anyone of the 41 countries mentioned and you arrive in the Kingdom, you are automatically given 30 days Leave to Remain. This saves you the hassle of applying for a visa if you are coming over for a short holiday. If you are coming for longer, all you have to do is apply for the appropriate visa before coming to Thailand.

Secondly, if you do decide to not apply for a visa, but decide to renew your Leave to Remain by crossing a border and then returning, we have the question of whether we are talking about 90 aggregate days.

Again, look at the original article:

"From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days."

In other words, 3 seperate periods of stay in Thailand, not totalling more than 90 days.

eg: 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 20 days - leave Thailand for 10 days - return and get a new 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 3 days - leave Thailand for 1 day - return and get a new 30 day stamp - stay in Thailand for 15 days - leave Thailand

In all, you would have spent 38 days in Thailand out of 49 days. Follwing this, you would then have to leave Thailand for a minimum of 90 days - but only if the next time you returned, you did so without a visa and wanted to use the 30 day Leave to Remain again. If you returned with a valid visa, this would not apply.

This is because, as mentioned in the article, you would have had your entry stamps renewed twice at most

As mentioned by other posters, I'm guessing that the reason for this is that it encourages people to apply for the appropriate visa if they intend to stay in Thailand for an extended period of time. This serves two purposes: firstly you have to go through the application process at the relevant consulate, thus aiding security; and secondly, the govenment actually makes some money out of your visa fees, rather than some privately owned visa-running company.

Funnily enough, the IND did a very similar thing in the UK when it came to granting Student Visas for non-EU and Commonwealth citizens...

Hope that all made sense!

Jez

Hello,

This is my first posting here so if I mess it up - please be nice to me people!

I have been following this thread for 2 days with it open on my PC at work (sorry Boss!) and I'm struck, as are others, by not only the amount of Fear Uncertanty and Doubt but also the facetious replies from some people on what is to many, a serious issue. I have a very good friend in Thailand who is just getting by on his UK pensions, supporting a family in rural Thailand and has no choice but to do monthly visa runs. I don't think he's aware of all this, as he isn't on line - how ever am I to break it to him?

May I also seek an opinion on my personal situation please.

I live in UK and am preparing to retire to Thailand - Under the current rules (!) I will qualify for a retirement visa (by way of age, finance etc.)

MEANWHILE, I like to visit Thailand as often as possible so I get a 2month TOURIST visa from the UK consulate, extend it by 1month in Phuket or Pattaya thus giving me 90 days total in Thailand. In the past IF I wish to stay longer in Thailand, I've then hopped over to Burma for a day with friends and gone back to Thailand getting a 30day permission to stay stamp on entry.

(I realise I can renew for 15 days but have preferred to "go for the 30" as it's more cost-effective.)

This means that I have 90days in Thailand on Tourist Visa+extension and a further 30 days with just the permission to stay.

My question is - will this still be allowed or MUST I get a double-entry tourist visa in UK before I leave?

I haven't seen this asked so far - sorry if adding yet more FUD but I really would like to know.

Mike in UK

[jumpinjiminycricket]

for what it is worth, i just recieved werd from my guy in penang, and he has been told that he is unable to get the double/triple entry visas as of today....single entry only (which could mean two months only, as that third extension is at the discretion of the Imm.Officer...)

any confirmation for this from anyone else?

hmm

[chanchao]

> I have a very good friend in Thailand who is just getting by on his UK

> pensions, supporting a family in rural Thailand and has no choice but to do

> monthly visa runs.

BUZZZZZZZZZ! Incorrect.

From the sound of this, he is retired AND taking care of his (Thai) family. Both are legitimae reasons for a Non-Immigrant visa which can be extended. A transit 'visa free' stay really isn't (and was never) appropriate in such cases.

On your question:

> May I also seek an opinion on my personal situation please.

I think the double (or triple) entry visa is the most convenient way to do it. (Most convenient both before AND in case the alleged new rules materialize; no change)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[sriracha john]

Well, it appears that the plot is slowly unravelling - limits on Visa, property ownership, foreign investment, foreign development etc, etc....

Anyway, I'm not going to say I'm allright jack, cos the rate this is going that could change to in the next few days.

Where will this end?

Koh Samui

Phuket

Koh Samet

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

22 Feb 2007

Predictable News of the Future Department

*edit*

Forget to add in:

"cue lonely crickets chirping in the background"

Edited September 12, 2006 by sriracha john