Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[sanook1]

I think a possible answer to this will be

1. A work permit

2. 2 visa runs to Cambodia followed by a three month multiple entry tourist visa from Penang, followed by 2 Cambodian (jack golf type) visa runs, Penang tourist visa... and so on...

3. A marriage visa with a external bank account with funds for spending here.

4. An investment visa (3 mil in a government savings bong ac or a brand new condo unit...e.g. View talay project 7 b4 its built)

5. A marriage visa where the wife has the supportive income for you

6.....anybody with any more ideas.

hopefully this helps a little, I'm interested in the Penang tourist visa option, will this work?

Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006

Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said.

The move, which takes effect October 1, would affect tourists from 41 countries including Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US, said Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, the head of the bureau.

Currently, tourists from 41 countries can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days.

They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps.

'Under the current rules, people from those countries can stay in Thailand as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year,' another bureau official said.

The bureau had learned that a growing number of foreigners from the 41 countries worked illegally in Thailand, Suwat said, adding many were employed in bars and restaurants in the popular seaside resort of Pattaya, east of Bangkok.

'Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law. Instead of sightseeing, they are doing business here,' Suwat said.

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

--forbes.com 2006-09-10

I think a possible answer to this will be

1. A work permit

2. 2 visa runs to Cambodia followed by a three month multiple entry tourist visa from Penang, followed by 2 Cambodian (jack golf type) visa runs, Penang tourist visa... and so on...

3. A marriage visa with a external bank account with funds for spending here.

4. An investment visa (3 mil in a government savings bong ac or a brand new condo unit...e.g. View talay project 7 b4 its built)

5. A marriage visa where the wife has the supportive income for you

6.....anybody with any more ideas.

hopefully this helps a little, I'm interested in the Penang tourist visa option, will this work?

[Baan Kiki]

like many of you, these new laws don't affe

[beammeup]

... and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

really? says what authority?

i realize that airlines often DO check to make sure a person can legally enter the destination country, but it's within their rights to accept the passenger's money, deliver them to the immigration checkpoint, and allow them to try to enter.

if the person can't enter, he's still responsible for getting himself home. usually that involves changing the date on his return ticket, but sometimes it involves him staying at an airport or being incarcerated until he arranges transportation.

the fact is, airlines that already try to enforce immigration rules make quite a few mistakes... just last january, a chinese friend of mine residing in the states (visa from china, green card from usa) tried to fly from USA to China to Thailand. the airline in china wouldn't let her board the plane to thailand, because they incorrectly thought she wasn't permitted to go there. well, they took it upon themselves to enforce an immigration rule, and ######ed it up. imagine if all airlines were forced to enforce immigrations rules....!

i can tell you that departing the US, they only make sure you have a passport. they don't care if you're denied entry once they drop you off at the destination. that's your problem. i have had friends denied entry (one just flew from Washington DC to Vancouver, Canada!) to countries after taking a plane to an immigration point, and the airline didn't give them a free ride home.

they're not obligated to worry about the immigration laws of all the countries they fly to.

Your way off on this one I have been refused boarding several times (Vancouver, Egypt, Paris)

for not having a visa and return ticket ( I usually buy my ticket in thailand so the return is to Thailand). The work around is to buy an open one way ticket Bangkok Singapore and then cash it in before it expires or get a visa!! It will be the airlines left with the responsibility to monitor this!!

[zxray]

I think a possible answer to this will be

1. A work permit

2. 2 visa runs to Cambodia followed by a three month multiple entry tourist visa from Penang, followed by 2 Cambodian (jack golf type) visa runs, Penang tourist visa... and so on...

3. A marriage visa with a external bank account with funds for spending here.

4. An investment visa (3 mil in a government savings bong ac or a brand new condo unit...e.g. View talay project 7 b4 its built)

5. A marriage visa where the wife has the supportive income for you

6.....anybody with any more ideas.

hopefully this helps a little, I'm interested in the Penang tourist visa option, will this work?

Immigration confirms the end of border runs from October 1, 2006

Thailand tightens visa rules for tourists to cut illegal workers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten entry regulations for tourists in a bid to crack down on illegal foreign workers, the Immigration Bureau said.

The move, which takes effect October 1, would affect tourists from 41 countries including Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US, said Suwat Thamrongsrisakul, the head of the bureau.

Currently, tourists from 41 countries can enter Thailand without visas and stay in the kingdom for up to 30 days.

They can extend their stay by checking out of the country, mainly by crossing the borders of neighboring Cambodia and Laos, and returning with new entry stamps.

'Under the current rules, people from those countries can stay in Thailand as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year,' another bureau official said.

The bureau had learned that a growing number of foreigners from the 41 countries worked illegally in Thailand, Suwat said, adding many were employed in bars and restaurants in the popular seaside resort of Pattaya, east of Bangkok.

'Tourists are taking advantage of the visa exemption law. Instead of sightseeing, they are doing business here,' Suwat said.

From October, tourists from the designated countries can still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to re-enter Thailand, Suwat said.

--forbes.com 2006-09-10

I think a possible answer to this will be

1. A work permit

2. 2 visa runs to Cambodia followed by a three month multiple entry tourist visa from Penang, followed by 2 Cambodian (jack golf type) visa runs, Penang tourist visa... and so on...

3. A marriage visa with a external bank account with funds for spending here.

4. An investment visa (3 mil in a government savings bong ac or a brand new condo unit...e.g. View talay project 7 b4 its built)

5. A marriage visa where the wife has the supportive income for you

6.....anybody with any more ideas.

hopefully this helps a little, I'm interested in the Penang tourist visa option, will this work?

If the purpose of the rule changes are what they have claimed, I would be very surprised, if they allow you to easily circumvent, thier intent, by issueing a tourist visa, after back to back border runs. I suspect that they will deny the tourist visa and tell you to come back in 90 days.

It may be, that those people, that do not fit any other long term visa criteria, may be forced to get the elite visa, spend 50% of the year outside the kingdom, or relocate.

Ray

[meowchawpnom]

It would seem to me that the best solution is to make a one year business visa readily available.

China and Vietnam both have this already. It is effectively a Tax on your staying here.

China one year F can be bought in HK for 1100hkd. Vietnam is $50us for 6 months.

Time for Thailand to modernize. I dont mind them making checks adn balances as long as there is a way to deal with it. We shall see what really happens and if this affects their economy.

You can alway lobby your own gov to push for better deal between Thailand and your own country.

Chinadarling, you can get Viet 6 month business visa for USD50 in HK? That's very cheap. They are $140 through agents in PP. Is this price through agents or from the consulate?

[greg1965]

Just had an interesting phone call from a nice lady with the Thailand Elite Card people.

I am still in the USA and she called me at home from Thailand. It must be quite late there. I had sent them an email yesterday and already they are calling me. So I guess they must really want to get the 1 million baht business.

I questioned her about how the process works. She said it takes 2 or 3 weeks to get the card. I can go to Thailand with a VOA, and then apply for the 5 year rolling visa once I get there.

My only concern is if Thailand Elite is run by the TAT and have no authority for issueing visa what happens if the immigration people decide not to give me the visa? I may just be worrying needlessly. I don't know.

Has anyone else done a Thai Elite card? If so I would be very interested to know how soon you got your 5 year visa after receiving the card.

[Big Dogster]

That elite card is a great option, only 5000 clams per year and you get free airport transport

[redewenur]

I came to live in Thailand 10 yrs ago. Being married to a Thai national (and having a minimum of 250,000 baht in a Thai bank), I was able to get a renewable 1yr visa. I have a house here. I have a young son. It's a pleasant life. I was making enough money growing longan fruit to keep things ticking over. Then two things happened: (1) the longan fruit market collapsed - it's worth less now than 10 yrs ago; (2) the minimum bank balance was almost doubled, literally overnight, to 450,000 baht. The financial downturn together with the new regulation meant that I no longer qualified for a 1yr visa. To cut a long story short, I was finally reduced to so called 'border runs' (makes you feel like a criminal on the run, right?). Now, what? At a glance, I guess my family have to abandon our house, land and life here, and become virtual 'refugees' back in the UK, at year zero. Nothing like starting afresh, is there?

I can imagine that there are some reading this and thinking 'Your own damned stupid fault. You took a risk, now your paying the price'. OK, maybe you're right. Faith in human nature has nothing to do with politics.

Edited September 12, 2006 by redewenur

[Big Dogster]

I came to live in Thailand 10 yrs ago. Being married to a Thai national (and having a minimum of 250,000 baht in a Thai bank), I was able to get a renewable 1yr visa. I have a house here. I have a young son. It's a pleasant life. I was making enough money growing longan fruit to keep things ticking over. Then two things happened: (1) the longan fruit market collapsed - it's worth less now than 10 yrs ago; (2) the minimum bank balance was almost doubled, literally overnight, to 450,000 baht. The financial downturn together with the new regulation meant that I no longer qualified for a 1yr visa. To cut a long story short, I was finally reduced to so called 'border runs' (makes you feel like a criminal on the run, right?). Now, what? At a glance, I guess my family have to abandon our house, land and life here, and become virtual 'refugees' back in the UK, at year zero. Nothing like starting afresh, is there?

I can imagine that there are some reading this and thinking 'Your own damned stupid fault. You took a risk, now your paying the price'. OK, maybe you're right. Faith in human nature has nothing to do with politics.

Dude, I feel for you man. I know there's an awful lot of people in your situation and I have true compassion. That is a nightmare. I really despise the jackoff posters who look down on you with their apathetic bullshit attitudes. I hope you can work something out

[Nikkijah]

I came to live in Thailand 10 yrs ago. Being married to a Thai national (and having a minimum of 250,000 baht in a Thai bank), I was able to get a renewable 1yr visa. I have a house here. I have a young son. It's a pleasant life. I was making enough money growing longan fruit to keep things ticking over. Then two things happened: (1) the longan fruit market collapsed - it's worth less now than 10 yrs ago; (2) the minimum bank balance was almost doubled, literally overnight, to 450,000 baht. The financial downturn together with the new regulation meant that I no longer qualified for a 1yr visa. To cut a long story short, I was finally reduced to so called 'border runs' (makes you feel like a criminal on the run, right?). Now, what? At a glance, I guess my family have to abandon our house, land and life here, and become virtual 'refugees' back in the UK, at year zero. Nothing like starting afresh, is there?

I can imagine that there are some reading this and thinking 'Your own damned stupid fault. You took a risk, now your paying the price'. OK, maybe you're right. Faith in human nature has nothing to do with politics.

Hi there, you don't need to despair, I have a non-b visa(which should actually be a non-o) on the grounds of having a child with a thai lady, the requirements are quite straight forward, somewhere in this huge thread is the guidelines on how to obtain a non-b, PM me for more details if you need them.

I hope this can help others who are in a similar position and feel that they too are destined to return to the UK, apparently, according to a well informed source on this forum non-o and non-b visas are nothing to do with these new patchy regulations... good luck!

[Koratbob]

As of October 1, 2006 the 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available

It has been brought to the attention of Sunbelt Asia that as of October 1, 2006 the 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available.

This includes bank investments, condominium investments, and bond investments.

Not only will it NOT be issued, but you CANNOT renew your current investment visa on this basis.

The official statement from Thai immigration is expected this week.

source: Sunbelt Asia

[Koratbob]

I inquired to Immigration througt the Phuket Gazzette and here was my answer.

On-arrival visas: 90 days and you’re out!

PHUKET: Phuket’s Immigration Chief has confirmed that Thailand will crack down on foreigners working illegally in the country by ending its policy of issuing an unlimited number of consecutive “visas on arrival” – tourist visas that allow the holder to stay a maximum of 15 or 30 days.

The crackdown is intended to stop foreigners – typically bar owners and other small businessmen without work permits – from using the visas to stay in the country indefinitely while working illegally.

Pol Col Bunphot Kongkrachan, Acting Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette that, from October 1, onward Immigration checkpoints around the country will limit to three the number of consecutive visas on arrival they will grant a single visitor.

After the third consecutive visa on arrival has expired, the passport holder must leave the country and wait 90 days before being allowed back into Thailand on the same type of visa.

The move effectively limits the length of stay for those entering the country using this visa class to 45 or 90 days.

The 41 countries whose citizens qualify for visas on arrival include Thailand’s top sources of tourists, including almost all Western European countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore and many more.

Col Bunphot said that all Immigration chiefs nationwide have been ordered to attend a meeting at Immigration headquarters on September 15, during which the new stricter regulations will be explained in detail.

“I will make a more detailed statement about the new situation within a week of returning from the meeting,” he said.

Suwalai Pinpradab, Director of Tourism Authority of Thailand’s South Region 4 Office in Phuket, downplayed the potential impact of the new rule on Phuket’s all-important tourism industry.

“ I don’t think it will affect tourism revenue in Phuket very much because foreign businessman holding work permits will still be able to work. The only ones who will be affected will be people who are working illegally and prolonging their stays by making visa run after visa run,” she said.

“My concern is about the coming high season. I sympathize with Immigration, which has too few officers. I am afraid that they will be swamped with work and that there will be a slowdown in service [at Immigration checkpoints],” she said.

Executive Visa Run conducts visa runs to Ranong and recently started a service to Penang in Malaysia. A representative there, who requested anonymity, told the Gazette that word of the new regulations had created a great deal of confusion.

“Immigration here in Phuket doesn’t know what going on because they’ve not received any guidelines yet from Bangkok … Yesterday when we made inquiries, nobody there could tell us anything,” he said.

When asked if there were a lot of people making “visa hops” to get new visas on arrival, he said, “Oh, there’s a lot. Really. It’s unbelievable, the amount.”

He added, “I think it will have a huge impact. You listen to all this about how they only want the rich people to stay here. There are a lot of people who stay here on low incomes – and they cause no problems, they just get on with their lives,” he said.

[A_Traveller]

As of October 1, 2006 the 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available

It has been brought to the attention of Sunbelt Asia that as of October 1, 2006 the 3 million baht investment visa will no longer be available.

This includes bank investments, condominium investments, and bond investments.

Not only will it NOT be issued, but you CANNOT renew your current investment visa on this basis.

The official statement from Thai immigration is expected this week.

source: Sunbelt Asia

Please note that this is an out of date post, it has since been confirmed that existing investment visas will be honoured.

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited September 12, 2006 by A_Traveller

[andyc2006]

... and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

really? says what authority?

i realize that airlines often DO check to make sure a person can legally enter the destination country, but it's within their rights to accept the passenger's money, deliver them to the immigration checkpoint, and allow them to try to enter.

if the person can't enter, he's still responsible for getting himself home. usually that involves changing the date on his return ticket, but sometimes it involves him staying at an airport or being incarcerated until he arranges transportation.

the fact is, airlines that already try to enforce immigration rules make quite a few mistakes... just last january, a chinese friend of mine residing in the states (visa from china, green card from usa) tried to fly from USA to China to Thailand. the airline in china wouldn't let her board the plane to thailand, because they incorrectly thought she wasn't permitted to go there. well, they took it upon themselves to enforce an immigration rule, and ######ed it up. imagine if all airlines were forced to enforce immigrations rules....!

i can tell you that departing the US, they only make sure you have a passport. they don't care if you're denied entry once they drop you off at the destination. that's your problem. i have had friends denied entry (one just flew from Washington DC to Vancouver, Canada!) to countries after taking a plane to an immigration point, and the airline didn't give them a free ride home.

they're not obligated to worry about the immigration laws of all the countries they fly to.

Your way off on this one I have been refused boarding several times (Vancouver, Egypt, Paris)

for not having a visa and return ticket ( I usually buy my ticket in thailand so the return is to Thailand). The work around is to buy an open one way ticket Bangkok Singapore and then cash it in before it expires or get a visa!! It will be the airlines left with the responsibility to monitor this!!

your personal examples don't contradict anything that i said -- in fact, i also gave an example of a woman not being able to board the plane because the airline (incorrectly) didn't think she was supposed to go.

airlines ALWAYS have a right to deny a passenger transitt, they don't even need to use visa rules as an excuse.

what i'm saying is that nobody forces them to enforce the visa regulations. who would? there is no international law-making body. each country has different standards and complexities of rules. and with thailand's new rules, the only way the airlines could enforce them would be to have access to thailand's immigration database (which would list each time a visitor came and went).

if you're saying airlines are required to enforce immigration rules, i'm telling you that they rarely do. i flew to canada with a driver's license and not a passport (since 9/11). i almost wasn't allowed entry. i've had friends denied entry for the same reason. people fly overseas from the USA all the time and are denied entry into the destination country. so they turn around and fly home.

if you're saying that airlines sometimes enforce immigration rules by denying boarding, i'm saying, uh, yeah, i pointed that out and it's not relevant to my post.

[A_Traveller]

... and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

really? says what authority?

i realize that airlines often DO check to make sure a person can legally enter the destination country, but it's within their rights to accept the passenger's money, deliver them to the immigration checkpoint, and allow them to try to enter.

if the person can't enter, he's still responsible for getting himself home. usually that involves changing the date on his return ticket, but sometimes it involves him staying at an airport or being incarcerated until he arranges transportation.

the fact is, airlines that already try to enforce immigration rules make quite a few mistakes... just last january, a chinese friend of mine residing in the states (visa from china, green card from usa) tried to fly from USA to China to Thailand. the airline in china wouldn't let her board the plane to thailand, because they incorrectly thought she wasn't permitted to go there. well, they took it upon themselves to enforce an immigration rule, and ######ed it up. imagine if all airlines were forced to enforce immigrations rules....!

i can tell you that departing the US, they only make sure you have a passport. they don't care if you're denied entry once they drop you off at the destination. that's your problem. i have had friends denied entry (one just flew from Washington DC to Vancouver, Canada!) to countries after taking a plane to an immigration point, and the airline didn't give them a free ride home.

they're not obligated to worry about the immigration laws of all the countries they fly to.

Your way off on this one I have been refused boarding several times (Vancouver, Egypt, Paris)

for not having a visa and return ticket ( I usually buy my ticket in thailand so the return is to Thailand). The work around is to buy an open one way ticket Bangkok Singapore and then cash it in before it expires or get a visa!! It will be the airlines left with the responsibility to monitor this!!

your personal examples don't contradict anything that i said -- in fact, i also gave an example of a woman not being able to board the plane because the airline (incorrectly) didn't think she was supposed to go.

airlines ALWAYS have a right to deny a passenger transitt, they don't even need to use visa rules as an excuse.

what i'm saying is that nobody forces them to enforce the visa regulations. who would?

if you're saying that airlines sometimes enforce immigration rules by denying boarding, i'm saying, uh, yeah, i pointed that out and it's not relevant to my post.

The management group for something that the airlines don't do is IATA's Control Authorities Working Group. Originally EU and COUS focused. Much of it's work after 9/11 became very private, however, it is a fact that many countries immigation acts provide for the 'conveyance owner' to be responsible.

As an example in Thailands's case the law provides that a carrier may be required to pay for accomodation, transfers, and other consequent costs not just potential repatriation. Please read the act if you don't beleive me. I presume you are from the US and so may be aware of the Jet Blue data saga, which also had relations into this matter.

If a carrier flys into a country they accept the ability of the country's legal system to apply penalties for the carrier's failure to ensure that a passenger has the correct documentation.

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited September 12, 2006 by A_Traveller

[jezchesters]

From the gazette

On-arrival visas: 90 days and you’re out!

PHUKET: Phuket’s Immigration Chief has confirmed that Thailand will crack down on foreigners working illegally in the country by ending its policy of issuing an unlimited number of consecutive “visas on arrival” – tourist visas that allow the holder to stay a maximum of 15 or 30 days.

The crackdown is intended to stop foreigners – typically bar owners and other small businessmen without work permits – from using the visas to stay in the country indefinitely while working illegally.

Pol Col Bunphot Kongkrachan, Acting Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette that, from October 1, onward Immigration checkpoints around the country will limit to three the number of consecutive visas on arrival they will grant a single visitor.

After the third consecutive visa on arrival has expired, the passport holder must leave the country and wait 90 days before being allowed back into Thailand on the same type of visa.

The move effectively limits the length of stay for those entering the country using this visa class to 45 or 90 days.

The 41 countries whose citizens qualify for visas on arrival include Thailand’s top sources of tourists, including almost all Western European countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore and many more.

Col Bunphot said that all Immigration chiefs nationwide have been ordered to attend a meeting at Immigration headquarters on September 15, during which the new stricter regulations will be explained in detail.

“I will make a more detailed statement about the new situation within a week of returning from the meeting,” he said.

Suwalai Pinpradab, Director of Tourism Authority of Thailand’s South Region 4 Office in Phuket, downplayed the potential impact of the new rule on Phuket’s all-important tourism industry.

“ I don’t think it will affect tourism revenue in Phuket very much because foreign businessman holding work permits will still be able to work. The only ones who will be affected will be people who are working illegally and prolonging their stays by making visa run after visa run,” she said.

“My concern is about the coming high season. I sympathize with Immigration, which has too few officers. I am afraid that they will be swamped with work and that there will be a slowdown in service [at Immigration checkpoints],” she said.

Executive Visa Run conducts visa runs to Ranong and recently started a service to Penang in Malaysia. A representative there, who requested anonymity, told the Gazette that word of the new regulations had created a great deal of confusion.

“Immigration here in Phuket doesn’t know what going on because they’ve not received any guidelines yet from Bangkok … Yesterday when we made inquiries, nobody there could tell us anything,” he said.

When asked if there were a lot of people making “visa hops” to get new visas on arrival, he said, “Oh, there’s a lot. Really. It’s unbelievable, the amount.”

He added, “I think it will have a huge impact. You listen to all this about how they only want the rich people to stay here. There are a lot of people who stay here on low incomes – and they cause no problems, they just get on with their lives,” he said.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

17:42 local time (GMT +7)

I'm sorry to say this for the umpteenth time, but as I am someone qualified to comment on this...

VISA ON ARRIVAL DOES NOT APPLY TO CITIZENS OF THE 41 COUNTRIES MENTIONED - LEAVE TO REMAIN DOES!!!

From an immigration point of view, Visa on Arrival is normally recommended for people that would normally be automatically accepted for a visa application in their home country. They can bring the relevant documents to their destination country, and when passing through immigration, ask for a Visa on Arrival.

They will then be taken for a brief interview, and, as long as they posess adequate documentation, be issued with the required visa.

A good example of this is a student from Venezuela who wants to study English in the UK. Venezuelans can enter the UK on a normal Leave to Remain anyway. The student lives nowhere near the UK embassy in Venezuela, and will cost him/her a lot of money to visit. All they have to do, is fly to the UK, present documentation to immigration, and ask a Visa on Arrival - basically asking UK immigration to do what the UK consulate in Caracas would have done...

Now Visa on Arrival is only worth risking if it's a black and white case - otherwise, you may well be turned away...

So, do you now understand the difference between Visa on Arrival and Remain to Leave?

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

simple eh?

Jez

[beammeup]

... and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

really? says what authority?

i realize that airlines often DO check to make sure a person can legally enter the destination country, but it's within their rights to accept the passenger's money, deliver them to the immigration checkpoint, and allow them to try to enter.

if the person can't enter, he's still responsible for getting himself home. usually that involves changing the date on his return ticket, but sometimes it involves him staying at an airport or being incarcerated until he arranges transportation.

the fact is, airlines that already try to enforce immigration rules make quite a few mistakes... just last january, a chinese friend of mine residing in the states (visa from china, green card from usa) tried to fly from USA to China to Thailand. the airline in china wouldn't let her board the plane to thailand, because they incorrectly thought she wasn't permitted to go there. well, they took it upon themselves to enforce an immigration rule, and ######ed it up. imagine if all airlines were forced to enforce immigrations rules....!

i can tell you that departing the US, they only make sure you have a passport. they don't care if you're denied entry once they drop you off at the destination. that's your problem. i have had friends denied entry (one just flew from Washington DC to Vancouver, Canada!) to countries after taking a plane to an immigration point, and the airline didn't give them a free ride home.

they're not obligated to worry about the immigration laws of all the countries they fly to.

Your way off on this one I have been refused boarding several times (Vancouver, Egypt, Paris)

for not having a visa and return ticket ( I usually buy my ticket in thailand so the return is to Thailand). The work around is to buy an open one way ticket Bangkok Singapore and then cash it in before it expires or get a visa!! It will be the airlines left with the responsibility to monitor this!!

your personal examples don't contradict anything that i said -- in fact, i also gave an example of a woman not being able to board the plane because the airline (incorrectly) didn't think she was supposed to go.

airlines ALWAYS have a right to deny a passenger transitt, they don't even need to use visa rules as an excuse.

what i'm saying is that nobody forces them to enforce the visa regulations. who would? there is no international law-making body. each country has different standards and complexities of rules. and with thailand's new rules, the only way the airlines could enforce them would be to have access to thailand's immigration database (which would list each time a visitor came and went).

if you're saying airlines are required to enforce immigration rules, i'm telling you that they rarely do. i flew to canada with a driver's license and not a passport (since 9/11). i almost wasn't allowed entry. i've had friends denied entry for the same reason. people fly overseas from the USA all the time and are denied entry into the destination country. so they turn around and fly home.

if you're saying that airlines sometimes enforce immigration rules by denying boarding, i'm saying, uh, yeah, i pointed that out and it's not relevant to my post.

I am not sure what your point is... but I was told each time that if they let me board they could be "fined by the Thai authorities". If... the rule turns out to be back to back only then there is nothing to worry about. But if its 3 30 day stamps in a given year then they only have to count the stamps and say sorry sir would you like to go to singapore instead? ...

[A_Traveller]

From the gazette

On-arrival visas: 90 days and you’re out!

PHUKET: Phuket’s Immigration Chief has confirmed that Thailand will crack down on foreigners working illegally in the country by ending its policy of issuing an unlimited number of consecutive “visas on arrival” – tourist visas that allow the holder to stay a maximum of 15 or 30 days.

The crackdown is intended to stop foreigners – typically bar owners and other small businessmen without work permits – from using the visas to stay in the country indefinitely while working illegally.

Pol Col Bunphot Kongkrachan, Acting Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette that, from October 1, onward Immigration checkpoints around the country will limit to three the number of consecutive visas on arrival they will grant a single visitor.

After the third consecutive visa on arrival has expired, the passport holder must leave the country and wait 90 days before being allowed back into Thailand on the same type of visa.

The move effectively limits the length of stay for those entering the country using this visa class to 45 or 90 days.

The 41 countries whose citizens qualify for visas on arrival include Thailand’s top sources of tourists, including almost all Western European countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore and many more.

Col Bunphot said that all Immigration chiefs nationwide have been ordered to attend a meeting at Immigration headquarters on September 15, during which the new stricter regulations will be explained in detail.

“I will make a more detailed statement about the new situation within a week of returning from the meeting,” he said.

Suwalai Pinpradab, Director of Tourism Authority of Thailand’s South Region 4 Office in Phuket, downplayed the potential impact of the new rule on Phuket’s all-important tourism industry.

“ I don’t think it will affect tourism revenue in Phuket very much because foreign businessman holding work permits will still be able to work. The only ones who will be affected will be people who are working illegally and prolonging their stays by making visa run after visa run,” she said.

“My concern is about the coming high season. I sympathize with Immigration, which has too few officers. I am afraid that they will be swamped with work and that there will be a slowdown in service [at Immigration checkpoints],” she said.

Executive Visa Run conducts visa runs to Ranong and recently started a service to Penang in Malaysia. A representative there, who requested anonymity, told the Gazette that word of the new regulations had created a great deal of confusion.

“Immigration here in Phuket doesn’t know what going on because they’ve not received any guidelines yet from Bangkok … Yesterday when we made inquiries, nobody there could tell us anything,” he said.

When asked if there were a lot of people making “visa hops” to get new visas on arrival, he said, “Oh, there’s a lot. Really. It’s unbelievable, the amount.”

He added, “I think it will have a huge impact. You listen to all this about how they only want the rich people to stay here. There are a lot of people who stay here on low incomes – and they cause no problems, they just get on with their lives,” he said.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

17:42 local time (GMT +7)

I'm sorry to say this for the umpteenth time, but as I am someone qualified to comment on this...

VISA ON ARRIVAL DOES NOT APPLY TO CITIZENS OF THE 41 COUNTRIES MENTIONED - LEAVE TO REMAIN DOES!!!

From an immigration point of view, Visa on Arrival is normally recommended for people that would normally be automatically accepted for a visa application in their home country. They can bring the relevant documents to their destination country, and when passing through immigration, ask for a Visa on Arrival.

They will then be taken for a brief interview, and, as long as they posess adequate documentation, be issued with the required visa.

A good example of this is a student from Venezuela who wants to study English in the UK. Venezuelans can enter the UK on a normal Leave to Remain anyway. The student lives nowhere near the UK embassy in Venezuela, and will cost him/her a lot of money to visit. All they have to do, is fly to the UK, present documentation to immigration, and ask a Visa on Arrival - basically asking UK immigration to do what the UK consulate in Caracas would have done...

Now Visa on Arrival is only worth risking if it's a black and white case - otherwise, you may well be turned away...

So, do you now understand the difference between Visa on Arrival and Remain to Leave?

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

simple eh?

Jez

As I said in another post to one of the zillion threads, the term VOA is, and has been in this discussion, used as a generic term. It should be noted that at some stage the conversation is going to cross the language barrier.

It is abundently clear that the IB is targetting those who have three NON EMBASSY ISSUED 'chops' for want of a better netural term. If an individual goes to an embassy and is provided with a visa then that will not be a matter of contention, but according to all the information to hand, anyone trying, even over a staggered period, to use FOUR Leave to Remain entries will be rejected. Also it appears that a combination of LtR and Visa will also fail, as will repeat visa applications, with advice being given to the embassy staff on this.

Regards

[cclub75]

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

Ah ah ah, you are really our white knight.

We all know the difference. But some people, here and there, use the expression "visa on arrival". It's like a short cut, do you understand ?

Actually, it's a "30 days stamp visa exemption".

And the crack down is on "30 days stamp visa exemption".

[jezchesters]

This is all very confusing to me, so if I could get a clear answer, I´d be more than happy.

I have been in thailand for over 3 months now, I came with a tourist visa and has been on 2 visa runs after it expired. I´ve planned to stay here until april next year, am not married to a thai and not over 50. Is there something I can do to stay until april, e.g. going to malaysia over and over for new visas, or do I simply have to pack my shit and go back to europe again?

Thanks

Plenty of advice here - please read the posts carefully

[jezchesters]

From the gazette

On-arrival visas: 90 days and you’re out!

PHUKET: Phuket’s Immigration Chief has confirmed that Thailand will crack down on foreigners working illegally in the country by ending its policy of issuing an unlimited number of consecutive “visas on arrival” – tourist visas that allow the holder to stay a maximum of 15 or 30 days.

The crackdown is intended to stop foreigners – typically bar owners and other small businessmen without work permits – from using the visas to stay in the country indefinitely while working illegally.

Pol Col Bunphot Kongkrachan, Acting Superintendent of Phuket Immigration Office, told the Gazette that, from October 1, onward Immigration checkpoints around the country will limit to three the number of consecutive visas on arrival they will grant a single visitor.

After the third consecutive visa on arrival has expired, the passport holder must leave the country and wait 90 days before being allowed back into Thailand on the same type of visa.

The move effectively limits the length of stay for those entering the country using this visa class to 45 or 90 days.

The 41 countries whose citizens qualify for visas on arrival include Thailand’s top sources of tourists, including almost all Western European countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore and many more.

Col Bunphot said that all Immigration chiefs nationwide have been ordered to attend a meeting at Immigration headquarters on September 15, during which the new stricter regulations will be explained in detail.

“I will make a more detailed statement about the new situation within a week of returning from the meeting,” he said.

Suwalai Pinpradab, Director of Tourism Authority of Thailand’s South Region 4 Office in Phuket, downplayed the potential impact of the new rule on Phuket’s all-important tourism industry.

“ I don’t think it will affect tourism revenue in Phuket very much because foreign businessman holding work permits will still be able to work. The only ones who will be affected will be people who are working illegally and prolonging their stays by making visa run after visa run,” she said.

“My concern is about the coming high season. I sympathize with Immigration, which has too few officers. I am afraid that they will be swamped with work and that there will be a slowdown in service [at Immigration checkpoints],” she said.

Executive Visa Run conducts visa runs to Ranong and recently started a service to Penang in Malaysia. A representative there, who requested anonymity, told the Gazette that word of the new regulations had created a great deal of confusion.

“Immigration here in Phuket doesn’t know what going on because they’ve not received any guidelines yet from Bangkok … Yesterday when we made inquiries, nobody there could tell us anything,” he said.

When asked if there were a lot of people making “visa hops” to get new visas on arrival, he said, “Oh, there’s a lot. Really. It’s unbelievable, the amount.”

He added, “I think it will have a huge impact. You listen to all this about how they only want the rich people to stay here. There are a lot of people who stay here on low incomes – and they cause no problems, they just get on with their lives,” he said.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

17:42 local time (GMT +7)

I'm sorry to say this for the umpteenth time, but as I am someone qualified to comment on this...

VISA ON ARRIVAL DOES NOT APPLY TO CITIZENS OF THE 41 COUNTRIES MENTIONED - LEAVE TO REMAIN DOES!!!

From an immigration point of view, Visa on Arrival is normally recommended for people that would normally be automatically accepted for a visa application in their home country. They can bring the relevant documents to their destination country, and when passing through immigration, ask for a Visa on Arrival.

They will then be taken for a brief interview, and, as long as they posess adequate documentation, be issued with the required visa.

A good example of this is a student from Venezuela who wants to study English in the UK. Venezuelans can enter the UK on a normal Leave to Remain anyway. The student lives nowhere near the UK embassy in Venezuela, and will cost him/her a lot of money to visit. All they have to do, is fly to the UK, present documentation to immigration, and ask a Visa on Arrival - basically asking UK immigration to do what the UK consulate in Caracas would have done...

Now Visa on Arrival is only worth risking if it's a black and white case - otherwise, you may well be turned away...

So, do you now understand the difference between Visa on Arrival and Remain to Leave?

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

simple eh?

Jez

As I said in another post to one of the zillion threads, the term VOA is, and has been in this discussion, used as a generic term. It should be noted that at some stage the conversation is going to cross the language barrier.

It is abundently clear that the IB is targetting those who have three NON EMBASSY ISSUED 'chops' for want of a better netural term. If an individual goes to an embassy and is provided with a visa then that will not be a matter of contention, but according to all the information to hand, anyone trying, even over a staggered period, to use FOUR Leave to Remain entries will be rejected. Also it appears that a combination of LtR and Visa will also fail, as will repeat visa applications, with advice being given to the embassy staff on this.

Regards

Absolutely correct!

Sorry to be so pedantic about the terminology - guess I had it hammered into me when I had to liaise with the IND in the UK...

The reason why the differentiation between two generic terms are so important in the case is this. The original quotation cited in the Forbes article can be condensed into two facile points:

If you have a visa - you're OK

If you don't - you're OK for a max of 90 days, but then don't come back 'til you've either have left for 90 more days, or have a legit visa...

Visa or not?

People interchanging Visa on Arrival with Leave to Remain is tantamount to confusing having a visa or not having one. VOA - you have a visa. LTR - you don't. Subtle, but very, very different...

[lung]

the "update" can be found here (read slowly

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82975&hl=

and some good news about spend money here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=83033&hl=

[jezchesters]

I haven't once met anyone that has a VOA (please correct me if I'm wrong!), but 100% of people that enter the Kingdom without a visa, enter on a 30 day Leave to Remain. That is the crux. Nobody has to flee Thailand. It will not affect the economy. It will neither affect Khao San hippies, nor Pattaya cruisers. It will merely affect people that can't remember to leave the Kingdom to pick up an O/B/Tourist/Investment etc Visa every 90 days...

Ah ah ah, you are really our white knight.

We all know the difference. But some people, here and there, use the expression "visa on arrival". It's like a short cut, do you understand ?

Actually, it's a "30 days stamp visa exemption".

And the crack down is on "30 days stamp visa exemption".

You are, of course, quite right with your terminology. Leave to Remain covers a much wider scope - eg spouses of refugees in the Uk that don't possess visas, but do possess Indefinite Leave to Remain....

Terminology aside - Visa on Arrival is not l'ike a short cut, do you understand' (your words...)

'Leave to Remain' and '30 day visa exemption' both imply that no visa exists. 'Visa on Arrival' implies you arrive in Thailand, go to the airport, then they hand you a visa (In fact, this is actually possible with the correct documents), so please don't confuse the terminology. If you were awarded a VOA, then (quoting the Forbes article), this wouldn't affect you...

I would shut up if the article talked about generic tourists. It didn't. It mentioned those that don't possess visas. For the less educated on this forum, people rattling on about Visas on Arrival may think that Leave to Remain is the same thing - ie, they don't need to apply for a visa because they will be automatically given one on entering the Kingdom...

Again - sorry to be a pedant - I'm not normally, but having read several hundred posts of people (understanderbly) getting confused about what a visa is, what type of visas or on offer, how can we interpret the article, I thought I could help by clarifying a few things. There are still people thinking after 500 posts that think this applies to Tourist Visas. There are people talking about leaving Thailand and their families. Forgive me for trying to crystalize matters

[andyc2006]

I am not sure what your point is... but I was told each time that if they let me board they could be "fined by the Thai authorities". If... the rule turns out to be back to back only then there is nothing to worry about. But if its 3 30 day stamps in a given year then they only have to count the stamps and say sorry sir would you like to go to singapore instead? ...

my point is that airlines won't care.

if thailand (or any country) places too big of a burden on them to go over visa requirements for their destination, they'll do 2 things:

1) make sure the passenger has an onward ticket with their airline, so that if the passenger is denied entry, the airline just pops him onto a plane to his onward destination without losing too much money (maybe they'll still pull out a profit on that passenger).

2) ignore the possibility of an entry without a visa. when the passenger tries to checkin, the gate attendant will simply say, "can i see your passport, and your visa?" if the passenger hasn't arranged for a visa, the airline isn't going to hold up the line counting all the stamps in a person's passport -- i tried that on my OWN passport last night, and it took me close to 20 minutes... i have lots of stamps over many years, from thailand and other countries -- imagine if airlines had to do that with every passenger, traveling to any country, when each country has a different set of rules (and imagine how many people like me would "lose" their passports every 6 months so that there's no physical record of their travel).

the gate attendants are simply going to say, "sorry, i can't issue you a boarding pass. if you'd read link number 984534 on our website, you'd know that our policy is not to fly passengers to thailand unless they've already arranged for their visa."

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes that is write dude, eye am on a retirement visa. Eye'm 51 years of old butt eye still think the new rules are lousy four reasons eye outlined earlier

Growing up still out of reach ?

[Michael W]

i have a stamp in my passport that says, "you very bad man. black heart. one time you come thailand, stay 10 days too many. now monitor lizard ghost haunt you. sum num na."

Hey, me too!

[sriracha john]

like many of you, these new laws don't affe

affe? mai loo..

dictionary.com's only entry is that it's an acronym for:

AFFE - Airborne Fire Fighting Equipment

[robbie22]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

If you can comply with the requirements, you can extend a Non-Immigrant O visa based on support of a Thai national for a year at a time.

I would appreciate some info on visas reading all the posts has me totally confused. I have moved to bangkok retired but problem for me now is on money requirements of 65000 baht a month i am only getting 57000 baht now till june when my child support ends so just a little short on money requirements. I have a thai girl friend and her daughter that i am supporting considering marriage would that help my cause? Also somebody mentioned visa from other country stay overnight to get what would that be? Any information i can get from you apppreciated greatly starting to panic.

[Scott]

It's beginning to look like all these countries had better arrange flights and boat lifts for all their stranded citizens. A little like Lebanon!

[freefunk]

Would that be the same for holding a workvisa for 3 consecutive years with the same company or does it only apply to Non-B's?

If so what procedure needs to be followed?