Immigration Confirms The End Of Border Runs From Oct 1, 2006

[John K]

Big time reality check for the Thais.

[keekwai]

Big time reality check for the Thais.

Its just human nature. Its rife .. world wide. There are heaps of people too unimaginative to form thier own opinions so they just "parrot" the opinions of others.

Person "A" reads some unsupported crap in a daily rag .. thinks" Oh that must be rught ..its in the paper. I'll think that way too"

Person "A" repeats the crap to person/s "B", "C", "D" ... they in turn repeat to others too. The crap opinion spreads expotentially.

It happens in forums a lot too.

[Huckenfell]

Well this is my first post and I will let you in on what I have found. A friend of mine stopped in today. He is on a 60 day tourist visa that he gets from the Thai consulate in Savannakhet. When he went to the consulate today, they told him that the consulate could no longer issue more than 2 60 day tourist visas per year . When he asked what he should do they told him that he should just go to any Immigration office for an extention. (You can normally get 2 one month extensions to a 60 day visa if you are over 50.) He was told by the consular official and the Immigration officer upon his return to Mukdahan that he would be allowed multiple (basically unlimited) extensions of the 60 day visa at any Immigration office. Of course this is to the tune of 1900 baht per extension.

Seems to me everybody gains a little from this. Thailand will gain a boatload of money in fees that they didn't get before. They get to vet everyone on a monthly basis. The farang will no longer be faced with trips to Laos and Cambodia that are just as costly as the fee. The money will stay in Thailand and the government looks good in the process... Win win eh? It is a way to recoup lost tax money and still create long term stay possibilities.

Sounds ok by me , just as long as the goal posts are not moved !

[KhunRut]

Well this is my first post and I will let you in on what I have found. A friend of mine stopped in today. He is on a 60 day tourist visa that he gets from the Thai consulate in Savannakhet. When he went to the consulate today, they told him that the consulate could no longer issue more than 2 60 day tourist visas per year . When he asked what he should do they told him that he should just go to any Immigration office for an extention. (You can normally get 2 one month extensions to a 60 day visa if you are over 50.) He was told by the consular official and the Immigration officer upon his return to Mukdahan that he would be allowed multiple (basically unlimited) extensions of the 60 day visa at any Immigration office. Of course this is to the tune of 1900 baht per extension.

Seems to me everybody gains a little from this. Thailand will gain a boatload of money in fees that they didn't get before. They get to vet everyone on a monthly basis. The farang will no longer be faced with trips to Laos and Cambodia that are just as costly as the fee. The money will stay in Thailand and the government looks good in the process... Win win eh? It is a way to recoup lost tax money and still create long term stay possibilities.

Sounds ok by me , just as long as the goal posts are not moved !

thats why they got wheels

[frankrimmer]

Thanks for the Elite links, just had a read, but it's only 90 day visas, so not much use for me.

My personal gripe with Immigration are:-

1) RETIREMENT PENSION

I am retired early but since I am only in my 40's can't get a retirement pension even though I meet every other criteria

2) INVESTMENT

Sounds fine, but from my investigations that leaves 3 options.

a) FIXED DEPOSIT WITH GOVERNMENT BANK - virtually no interest at all

GOVERNMENT/STATE INDUSTRY BONDS - Would love to buy them, but have you tried! IF ANYONE HAS AN EASY PROCESS FOR THIS PLEASE POST NOW!

c) CONDO PURCHASE - IMHO not a particularly good investment at this time (prices doubled/tripled in last few years and heading for a crash or at least price freeze in the very near future). Also the idea of buying to rent here is a joke if you try to do it legally. LEGALLY you are liable for a lot of tax on both rent, property, as well as when buying and selling. Yes there are ways to avoid paying some of this, but do you really want to risk the implications of being caught?

Having worked here LEGALLY for many years in the past

(but never 3 consecutive years) I find myself (and I think many are the same) in the situation that my life, home, friends etc. are here, and the easiest way to deal with staying here recently has been multiple entry tourist visas.

I do not share other's interpretations that multiple entry visa's will be exempt from this declaration. At the very least, I see problems getting 2 consecutive multiple entry visas as a consulate, and worse case scenario, I can see people being told that after doing a same day border crossing, that they can't come back for another 90 days!

If anyone has a link to the EXACT Thai version of the statement (and English translation if there is one), please post it.

Once again, if anyone has an easy way to buy the Governemt bonds (which give about 4-5% return from my research, please post (I have tried TISCO and they have been pretty useless).

FWIW interest rates were raised recently and may be better at govm't banks. Dunno for sure but worth a look. (I know they were miserable before).

I note government banks mentioned several times...which ones are the government banks exactly? I have been with Bangkok Bank for ten years..is that a government bank??

cheers

[Artisan]

Its just human nature. Its rife .. world wide. There are heaps of people too unimaginative to form thier own opinions so they just "parrot" the opinions of others.

Person "A" reads some unsupported crap in a daily rag .. thinks" Oh that must be rught ..its in the paper. I'll think that way too"

Person "A" repeats the crap to person/s "B", "C", "D" ... they in turn repeat to others too. The crap opinion spreads expotentially.

It happens in forums a lot too.

A bit like "Chinese Whispers", do you think?

"Send reinforcements, we're going to advance".....becomes, "Send Three and Fourpence, we're going to a dance"

[kozi]

On reading the views in this forum it appears that the imposed immigration visa ACTS are having the desired affect and clearing out lots of the dross.

They can try dregging off to Thailand’s neighbouring countries, but will discover they don’t want them either.

My advice is, if anyone is considering residing long term in Thailand, survey first prior to coming over or even better, stay here for a short time to see if Thailand is for you.

Ensure that you can comply with all the imposed immigration requirements and consider what your financial situation may be in the long-term future. Can’t live up to the immigration requirements, you’re history, it’s that simple.

Don’t think about living here if you have serious health problems, no NHS here and medical care can be expensive.

Thailand is by no means a multi racial society, a Farang is viewed as a glorified tourist by the authorities and the Thai general public, whether married to a Thai or not.

Laws and policies are becoming more severe for foreigners, mostly because Thailand is facing pressure from the West to stiffen up it’s relaxed immigration polices as anti terrorist measures.

Before coming to Thailand, study the facts about living here.

No point in griping afterwards when it all goes arse about face.

For those honest long term residents on non-immigrant visas who can fulfil Thai immigration requirements and abide Thailand’s laws, will succeed here, receive courteous help from the immigration department and win the respect of the Thai people and their Farang peers living here.

[Bhanja]

I'm married to a Thai but so what. It doesn't get you much does it. I mean you can get a 90 visa from the get go extended for one month thereafter but then what?

if married you can get a years visa and extend one more year each time ... a multiple reentry stamp can be applied for which enables to go and come back any time within your valid one year permit ... actually very easy

[Tornado]

This thread is killing the "rain" thread. Most popular thread ever?

[Steph1012]

I agree we need a clear out.

Most of us are paying taxes, fees, accountants and employing thai staff (or paying their taxes!!). This legal route exposes us (as we are registered and visible to all Thai Authorities) to periodic checks usually resulting in small fines. We also comply with regulations that many would find it hard to believe exist. Espescially health and hygene ones.

Many here avoid all these costs and as as a result compete unfairly against us and are never checked as they are invisible on the system, only coming to light if they appear on the radar by annoying somebody. These people are also the ones who gloat about how clever they are and how their contacts will look after them should the worst happen.

We meet falang developers, real estate agents, time share salesmen and incredibly!!!! taxi drivers offering lifts to airports, ferries etc. If that isn't a death wish, I really don't know what is.

I do my three monthly hops listening to this crap. listening to Real Estate Agents loudly conducting deals on the phone. Totally taking the piss out of the system. I've had the "why bother with all that shit... This is Thailand" stuff and the knowledgeble nods for the past 4 years since I put my house in order. Back then, those of us who were sober more than 1 day every month, saw the writing on the wall.

All these posters making oh so clever "what about a person who...." posts that may apply to 0.001% of cases, are hypothesising about people who stay more than 6 months of the year (if not, why bother with the calculation). Surely these are not tourists, and this line statistical bombardment will get you exactly nowhere with Thai Immigration, clever or not.

This will not affect many people now, and I am sure the Thai Authorities are worried about an explosion of Chinese doing the same thing. Most of you would not like to be mixing with the Chinese criminal element I am sure, and remember, they don't stand out in a crowd like we do so will be harder to stop.

This measure, whilst maybe not stopping them, will at least criminalise them making them subject to immediate deportation.

[opebo]

On reading the views in this forum it appears that the imposed immigration visa ACTS are having the desired affect and clearing out lots of the dross.

They can try dregging off to Thailand’s neighbouring countries, but will discover they don’t want them either.

Presumably by 'dross' you mean men who are in Thailand for sexual purposes. Of course this covers probably around 90% of white males resident in Thailand, kuzi, including no doubt yourself, if you were honest about it.

As for other countries welcoming tourists such as these.. it all depends upon their economic situation. Xenophobia and prudery are luxury items!

[johnwills]

They also made some interesting changes to the Married visa

Oh really? Please tell what changes have been made to the supporting spouse visa. Or, are you just adding more dry dung to the fire?

More Dry Dung I suspect.

[Thaising]

Don’t panic, wait until the waters are clearer to clean the sky.

[chechoie]

On reading the views in this forum it appears that the imposed immigration visa ACTS are having the desired affect and clearing out lots of the dross.

They can try dregging off to Thailand’s neighbouring countries, but will discover they don’t want them either.

My advice is, if anyone is considering residing long term in Thailand, survey first prior to coming over or even better, stay here for a short time to see if Thailand is for you.

Ensure that you can comply with all the imposed immigration requirements and consider what your financial situation may be in the long-term future. Can’t live up to the immigration requirements, you’re history, it’s that simple.

Don’t think about living here if you have serious health problems, no NHS here and medical care can be expensive.

Thailand is by no means a multi racial society, a Farang is viewed as a glorified tourist by the authorities and the Thai general public, whether married to a Thai or not.

Laws and policies are becoming more severe for foreigners, mostly because Thailand is facing pressure from the West to stiffen up it’s relaxed immigration polices as anti terrorist measures.

Before coming to Thailand, study the facts about living here.

No point in griping afterwards when it all goes arse about face.

For those honest long term residents on non-immigrant visas who can fulfil Thai immigration requirements and abide Thailand’s laws, will succeed here, receive courteous help from the immigration department and win the respect of the Thai people and their Farang peers living here.

I have patiently read through this thread and others related to it.

I have to admit, some of the posts from people who are obviously in Thailand illegally where pathetic, especially the “we are the answer to Thailand’s future and what on earth will they do without us” brigade.

I have to agree with the quote above. It’s clear and to the point.

The biggest mistake that a lot of foreigners living illegally in Thailand make is that they think all Thai’s are simple, stupid even.

Don’t mistake tolerance for stupidity.

It may well be that this clampdown will blow over and things will go back to “normal”, but that will happen when and if the Thai’s want it that way, not because they cannot enforce the clampdown.

When all is said and done, this is Thailand, you are a guest in their country, respect their laws, however erratic you perceive them to be.

Really, if you want to live here, what else can you do?

[keekwai]

I'm getting tired of saying this in the various threads on this "Storm in a Tea Cup" So clean your ears out, get your hands off your todgers and listen up! (Better yet .. do a little independant research)

This end to endless back to back free entries with no visa (NOT a VOA) .. will NOT stop anyone from staying in Thailand indefinately. ... BECAUSE ALL PAID VISAS ARE BUSINESS AS USUAL !"

If you are a dedicated "Undesirable, illegally working, teacher ,bar owner, kiddie fiddler, poo ying chasing, yah bah shooting freak" then the only change you will undergo is the neccessity to dig into your pocket and buy a 60 day Tourist Visa .. extend it for 30 days .. bugger off to Penang .. get another "Single Entry Tourist Visa" (No more multiples apparently) and repeat endlessly.

If people would do a little research on the net .. and not use this site and reports from tabloid newspapers as the SOLE source of information .. then these panicked threads would not have gone on for as long as they have. I have checked all the Thai Embassy /Consulate sites that good old Gooooogle can find AND phoned the Sydney Embassy here in Australia. If I was in Thailand at the moment .. I would march into the Immigration office and get it from the "horses mouth" ... Anyone at TV want to volunteer and put an end to this crap? You can't just rely on local tabloid clippings.

Thanks

PS .. If I was the cynical type .. I might think that TV is inciting this panicked riot in order to boost traffic .. but I'm not cynical .. so I won,t think it. (Hey ! just kidding TV Gods above)

Edited September 16, 2006 by keekwai

[Steph1012]

Bombs now in Hat Yai, Visa clampdown, Land Law changed, murder on Phi Phi

I see they are pushing the Thailand Longstay Card again in the midst of this, or is this part of a campaign to save face for the idiots who were going to flog one million of em for one million baht each!! Think they sold 200 and gave away 2,500 the last I saw of it.

Pushing it hard on Pattaya TV this week under a name which I will not reveal as I do not want to direct traffic onto their tragic web site. Co-incidence!

Anyway, anyone with any sense does not come to Thaialnd to retire peacefully. We live here as we love the country even with the quirks that this entails. The ups surmount the downs, though a lot of falangs have abused it and some change was inevitable.

That said, you need hardy folk to live and retire here and cannot be too fussy in this climate. The Muslims have just bombed Hat Yai and threatened Phuket and Bangkok a few weeks ago. The Thai press try to surpress it, but its the age of the internet and all these stories appear on Yahoo, Google, CNN, BBC un Thailand news.

A normal couple will not look for a safe retirement haven, knowing that the rules could change at any minute, giving them major worries in late life at regular intervals. The morning papers arriving with the "Clampdown of the day" headlines would drive any away that were mad enough to come.

Its nationwide pontoon, do I stick with the sex tourists and the money or do I go bust removing them and hoping big spenders will live in this climate of fear!!

Rich people have a better life anywhere in the world by virtue of being rich. We poorer people take the risks as we know life is much better for us here than anywhere else.

[Heng]

I think this is wishful thinking. Sure, there are Thais reading this, but no one of of significance.... unless you think that me, Stevemagnino, or Bambina have more influence than we really do.

Don't underestimate us mate:

Me: direct line to Taksin's driver's chair :-)

Bambina: direct line to the cat of the secretary of K Suriya

You: ????

I dated n'Yaht-thip for a few weeks before handing her off to brother Oak. She might have some sway with sia Maew. Other than that, I can't say I know anyone of any importance.

And no one has been able to give me any data that suggests this will have a remotely significant impact on the economy long term other than hysterical personal 'screw you guys I'm going home' posts.

Without an impact report, there is no point in talking to anyone.

An in the end, that's probably going to be the bottom line. All hysterics and no cogent discussion (and no, googling LOS tourism revenues and saying that they are all going to disappear tomorrow isn't going to fly.... mostly because that's what folks do everytime something "bad" happens here: getting robbed on Beach Road or not being able to return a fridge at Big C, etc.).

[bobtailkitten]

Hey

Im a bit confused about this, is this just for the thirty day entry free visa? what if i go to Laos and get a 90 day visa, is that possible? Is there anyway around this for people who are staying here for along time? I am just studying Muay Thai here and not working. Its a stupid idea.

Arg. Help.

[phuketrichard]

A little bit off topic but still relevant.

I have just heard second hand that ALL of us on retirement visas have to show that our 800,000 bhat has been in the bank 90 days!! This comences Oct first as well.

So if you need to renew your extension Dec 1st you must place have 800,000 in the bank from sept 1st> Has anyone heard this as well? I would assume that they will also apply the same rule to Married extensions need to show 400,000 in the bank for 90 days.

More and more it appears to me they do not want anyone but toursits and people that have 100% legit work permits here.

[Artisan]

A little bit off topic but still relevant.

I have just heard second hand that ALL of us on retirement visas have to show that our 800,000 bhat has been in the bank 90 days!! This comences Oct first as well.

So if you need to renew your extension Dec 1st you must place have 800,000 in the bank from sept 1st> Has anyone heard this as well? I would assume that they will also apply the same rule to Married extensions need to show 400,000 in the bank for 90 days.

More and more it appears to me they do not want anyone but toursits and people that have 100% legit work permits here.

I feel that this is rumour mongering. It's well known that at least one Immigration Office will deposit 800,000 baht in a frozen account, in an applicant's name, in a bank nominated by the Immigration Office for 24 hours for an under-the-table fee of 15,000 baht......just to satisfy the financial criteria for a retirement extension.

If it is true then an applicant is better advised to apply for a retirement extension on a regular monthly income basis.

[Noel]

A little bit off topic but still relevant.

I have just heard second hand that ALL of us on retirement visas have to show that our 800,000 bhat has been in the bank 90 days!! This comences Oct first as well.

So if you need to renew your extension Dec 1st you must place have 800,000 in the bank from sept 1st> Has anyone heard this as well? I would assume that they will also apply the same rule to Married extensions need to show 400,000 in the bank for 90 days.

More and more it appears to me they do not want anyone but toursits and people that have 100% legit work permits here.

Personally, I would take that rumour with a pinch of salt.

It was probably started by a disgruntled 30 day back-to-back border runner...

[phuketrichard]

Not sure it is a rumor as it was from a friend that went to immigration and asked them about the retirement extension..

yea, I have heard the same. In fact the immigration where i apply has told me before that if I dont have the full amount to just borrow it to make sure i have the 800,000.

[libya 115]

A little bit off topic but still relevant.

I have just heard second hand that ALL of us on retirement visas have to show that our 800,000 bhat has been in the bank 90 days!! This comences Oct first as well.

So if you need to renew your extension Dec 1st you must place have 800,000 in the bank from sept 1st> Has anyone heard this as well? I would assume that they will also apply the same rule to Married extensions need to show 400,000 in the bank for 90 days.

More and more it appears to me they do not want anyone but toursits and people that have 100% legit work permits here.

I feel that this is rumour mongering. It's well known that at least one Immigration Office will deposit 800,000 baht in a frozen account, in an applicant's name, in a bank nominated by the Immigration Office for 24 hours for an under-the-table fee of 15,000 baht......just to satisfy the financial criteria for a retirement extension.

If it is true then an applicant is better advised to apply for a retirement extension on a regular monthly income basis.

I have not yet reached the age of 50 (retirement visa). But if/when I do I won't be depositing 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, or whatever the figure will be then. I will pay the 'under the table' going rate for my retirement visa. It was 7,000 baht three years ago when a friend of mine 'arranged' it at immigration. Of course I won't say which office: but it does go on.

[Hermano Lobo]

This will not affect many people now, and I am sure the Thai Authorities are worried about an explosion of Chinese doing the same thing. Most of you would not like to be mixing with the Chinese criminal element I am sure, and remember, they don't stand out in a crowd like we do so will be harder to stop.

This measure, whilst maybe not stopping them, will at least criminalise them making them subject to immediate deportation.

I am surprised more people have not focused on the Chinese. When you look at the rate of economic expansion I would imagine they will soon have designs and ambitions in other areas.

With its rich farmland and other interesting pickings I believe the Chinese have long thought that Thailand is rather a nice cherry to pluck in more ways than one ?

Perhaps the new regulations are not so anti-farang as some of you believe.

Look at the wider picture ?

[libya 115]

double removed

Edited September 18, 2006 by libya 115

[steveromagnino]

I am surprised more people have not focused on the Chinese. When you look at the rate of economic expansion I would imagine they will soon have designs and ambitions in other areas.

With its rich farmland and other interesting pickings I believe the Chinese have long thought that Thailand is rather a nice cherry to pluck in more ways than one ?

Perhaps the new regulations are not so anti-farang as some of you believe.

Look at the wider picture ?[/size]

nice idea, but easier to project all personal problems of working without work permit in a lowly paid job and doing regular visa runs for the last 20 years as the plight of every single tourist in Thailand; and all tourists are farang right?! The mind boggles.

The ones who can be bothered will probably have no difficulty staying, as the IHT said, this is a largely symbolic move.

[Hermano Lobo]

Maybe the Thais have read this book? :-

Pacific Nightmare, Simon Winchester, ISBN 1559721367

Pacific Nightmare: How Japan Starts World War III : A Future History. Sidgwick and Jackson: London, 1992. 256 pp. Also published as Pacific Nightmare: A Devastating Account of the Third World War in the Far East. Pan Macmillan: London, 1993. 320 pp. Winchester’s only fiction book deals with the hypothetical idea of Japan reasserting its imperial head after Hong Kong collapses following its handover to China.

From Publishers Weekly

The catalyst for this novel by a Hong Kong-based correspondent for the British newspaper the Guardian is the planned return of that city to Chinese control in 1997. Hong Kong becomes a focal point for southern China's discontent with Beijing's hardline Maoist rulers, and civil war breaks out, plunging the nation into chaos. In 1999, Japan sends in troops to restore "calm and stability." Chinese officers are preparing a retaliatory atomic strike when the U.S. takes a nuclear initiative of its own. Winchester ( Pacific Rising ) establishes a plausible early sequence of events, but then depicts Japan's intervention so sketchily that he fails to convince. By concentrating on crafting small-scale action sequences at the expense of analyzing his future history's diplomatic, political and military developments, he inhibits this disappointing narrative.

Copyright 1992 Reed Business Information

[Martin]

'Hermano Lobo' is right:

"With its rich farmland and other interesting pickings I believe the Chinese have long thought that Thailand is rather a nice cherry to pluck in more ways than one ?"

So many Chinese becoming urban-dwellers who need food imported to feed them is going to make for big geopolitical repercussions.

The Chines are already investing hugely in tying large areas of soya-growing land in South America to them.

Thailand is going to have to keep its wits about it to avoid being dis-benefited by the Chinese domination of the world.

For America it is now probably too late to wake up to the fact that they are too much in debt to China to ever unhook themselves.

And we are not off-topic. We who wish to live in a country in which we are not citizens can expect to get caught out by such geopolitical events causing immigration rules to be changed.

First, they will stop letting people reside here whilst masquerading as tourists (as is beginning to happen now.)

Then they will tighten up on the conditions under which they accept people, who are not Thai citizens, residing at all. (As indicated by the remarks about 'marriages-of-convenience' not being a way to get residence. Which is following in the footsteps of the UK Government nearly twenty years ago.)

All foreigners who hope to reside in Thailand should play it very, very straight, so they continue to be welcome.

It is unwise to get anything 'dodgy' on your record---from bribing immigration officials to setting up bogus companies to own land.

The great mistake made by Westerners is to think Thais are stupid. They are every bit as bright as Westerners, but just have more tolerance and less arrogance. However, their tolerance has its limits.

[Hermano Lobo]

'Hermano Lobo' is right:

And we are not off-topic. We who wish to live in a country in which we are not citizens can expect to get caught out by such geopolitical events causing immigration rules to be changed.

I always look for valid reasons why the Thais are doing it. A bunch of Westerners escaping their boring lives in the West to enjoy the easy style of Thailand is probably only scratching the surface.

I personally believe that as Westerners and I have been just as guilty as anybody else, we try and project our way of thinking onto Thais and then expect them to react in a way a Westerner would. They wont and can't because they are Thais and not Westerners.

The Chinese think in terms of five, ten,fifteen or twenty-five year plans. They are always thinking long term, where we in the West are plagued by short-termism. With our accompanying 30 second attention-span!

[suiging]

'Hermano Lobo' is right:

And we are not off-topic. We who wish to live in a country in which we are not citizens can expect to get caught out by such geopolitical events causing immigration rules to be changed.

I always look for valid reasons why the Thais are doing it. A bunch of Westerners escaping their boring lives in the West to enjoy the easy style of Thailand is probably only scratching the surface.

I personally believe that as Westerners and I have been just as guilty as anybody else, we try and project our way of thinking onto Thais and then expect them to react in a way a Westerner would. They wont and can't because they are Thais and not Westerners.

The Chinese think in terms of five, ten,fifteen or twenty-five year plans. They are always thinking long term, where we in the West are plagued by short-termism. With our accompanying 30 second attention-span!

100% correct. It's not what the Chinese are doing now that you have to worry about, as they planned it five years ago. The Thai's may not be as knee jerk as we think, who are the real targets of this action ?

Edited September 18, 2006 by suiging