Thai university students score 7/100 for English test

[Artisi]

Our son educated much of his life in the UK, and now a student in university in Bkk,,is paid to teach English,in his spare time at the university,unbelievable the reason is that his English is better than the teachers

My nearly six Y.O. son is now the translator for the school he attends, he is used to translate for any English exchange students, visitor etc who visit the school -- great experience for him .

[DavisH]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

It all falls on deaf ears until a Thai in a position of power recognises the problem and will take drastic action to rectify things. Not sure it will happen in my life time. Too much money is at stake. Education is big business here. What kids actually learn is secondary.

[Mr Somtam]

Our son educated much of his life in the UK, and now a student in university in Bkk,,is paid to teach English,in his spare time at the university,unbelievable the reason is that his English is better than the teachers

My nearly six Y.O. son is now the translator for the school he attends, he is used to translate for any English exchange students, visitor etc who visit the school -- great experience for him .

Oh my god! A six year old more fluent than all the teachers...

[Oziex1]

“The students nowadays fail because they just don't give a shit about studying and reading and they know that if most of the class fail, the whole class will still pass to the next course and finally graduate. Why? Coz you can't fail students in this country and make them repeat classes,” Wright said in the post.

The problem of the Thai education system in a nutshell.

+ 1.

Nothing will change until there'a complete overall haul of the system and that's not going to happen because it suits everybody the way it is.

A few years after the Asian Economic Community comes into being, Thais will have their eyes opened at how disadvantaged they are (self imposed). Much poorer countries such as Burma, Laos, and Cambodia produce students whose English proficiency should shame Thailand into action. At the moment, they are shielded but when AEC fully kicks in, they will get a rude awakening. I don't think their IQs are especially low but the common Thais are academically lazy. When they are being house boys or maids to educated Indonesians, maybe they will insist their children do better in school. Of course currently, the schools are more day-care than education institutions.

Lot of talk about the upcoming AEC as being something special, sorry I don't have the optimism of my fellow posters on this. It's still South East Asia

And speaking of education Asian students in Australia come exam time try to shower their teachers in gifts with some expectation of a pass.I would like to say it has no effect, however as the education industry for overseas students is a commercial enterprise some poorly qualified are gaining a pass. Allowed by a poorly regulated industry not so much as by individual teachers, this was highlighted on the ABC program Four Corners recently.

To clarify, the Asian students are overseas students studying in Australia not Asian Australians.

[pauleddy]

As someone who worked for a few years at a "famous" university, I agree with 99pc of the negative comments above.

The whole kit and caboodle is an absolute joke. Looking back, I realise that it was a case of get burn-out or find something else to do.

Many people say that ASEAN will "cure" things, although I doubt it. The laziness, arrogance, nepotism and corruption are just too much. It reminds me a bit of the fallacy that "in 30 years, everybody will be speaking Chinese". Another nonsense, according to a friend who teaches in China.

I know of "top" places--and of Rajabhats--which are like London Zoo. The Thai English teachers cannot speak English, let alone teach it. Kids run riot etc. I know of one American guy at a Rajabhat who must have had four nervous breakdowns by now. A friend who once worked in the actual Ministry of Ed. has credible stories of officials who trousered 12 million or 20 million Baht.

Yes, it is very difficult to Fail students, because the exam board that rubberstamps the grades has no Farang Ajarns on it. The Thai ladies just decide the grades, and there is a sort of sliding-scale thing that says 70pc of students must get A or B or B+.

Not many things in life do I allow to beat me. But the Thai Education system was the winner hands down. Bye-bye. I don't need you any more.

Eddy

[Smokemachine]

Remember there was once I saw my wife's sister son doing homework. He is in primary school. The school is teaching them basic English words. I watch him doing a question with pictures of 4 different fruits and they need to fill in the correct answers. ( 4 answers are given and just need to link to the correct picture.) first three answers are done and I saw the last fruit is shown a picture of pineapple. But the answer given is guava. I explained to the small child and told him the picture showing the fruit should be pineapple not guava. I slash off the Guava and ask him write pineapple beside it. After few days I curious asking him how is his homework regarding the fruit question. Teacher tell him pineapple is wrong. Answer is guava ( picture show a pineapple) He got a 0 point for that question. I felt at that point.

-______- WTH.....

[toybits]

Another sad sad situation is that English Language tutorial schools like (hmmm. better not show here - but you know what I mean) are just money spinners and not really centers of learning. One center has 14 or so levels and each level cost money. I suspect their aim is not to teach Thai students but milk their parents of as much of their hard-earned money as they can before they realize that their children are not really learning. By then it's too late (which by the way sounds like ทุเรศ and has an entirely different meaning).

[Lunchbob]

The majority of people, in any country, are able to learn a language before the age of 9. After 9, it is very difficult.

Most teachers here for these ages do not speak any English and, given an average age of teachers at about 40, have been raised with social values that are dictatorial, authoritarian and exclusive, very focused on social classes, rank, compliance, etc...In this generation, a good teacher was considered, "boran", proper, polite, sedate.

These are not qualities conducive to fostering creativity, passion and excitement in young people.

Wish I knew the statistics of the numbers of young teachers in schools. The terrible economy tends to make these jobs harder to find...

The PM is shaking up the systems that kept growth at bay. Fingers crossed.

There really is just 1 way to get the next generation of Thais broad language skills: young teachers who are creative and passionate and bilingual. Give them space and respect and anything else they need to flourish. Keep those 40 something boran types away Unless they are supportive and most of all, subordinate!

[krdowney]

There is also a sizable amount of bribe-taking among "elite" privately funded American universities that are struggling financially--like many Ivy League Schools excluding Harvard, Yale, Columbia and U Penn who are solvent. Foreign students are seen as a revenue stream, and they are accepted and allowed to graduate regardless of their performance so long as their family will make a voluntary $500,000 donation to a building fund or to an endowment for scholarships (for talented students). This happens across the US.

I spent more than a decade working at a very large big city, state university in the U.S. dealing a lot with our fundraising efforts, which were substantial. And I saw almost none of what you're describing on behalf of our foreign students, of which we had many including a lot of Thais.

The families of our foreign students were already paying full-rate tuition -- not the subsidized rates of our in state students. And at private schools, the annual tuition rates plus living abroad expenses for a foreign student are going to be even higher, easily $50,000 a year altogether.

For most foreign families, the cost of sending their children abroad and paying for all the expenses associated with a 4-year U.S. university degree is going to be a substantial expenditure. The foreign families weren't usually lining up to make big donations on top of their other expenses.

Likewise, my father was a longtime graduate studies professor at several private universities, and we didn't see the practice you're describing there either. What probably happened more was, a foreign student would graduate, go on to become successful, and later return to donate to their alma mater.

What I did see, though, at the private universities, was efforts by foreign students to ingratiate themselves with the professors teaching their classes such as through sometimes quite valuable personal gifts (which I was told was the custom in their native countries).

And, at the private universities, there were varying levels of internal pressure not to simply fail foreign students who were paying $25K or $35K a year in tuition, because those students were indeed seen in part as a needed revenue stream.

Tall Guy. I agree with your point. I understand, I went to a big state school. Really though if you read my comment, I was trying to focus on private institutions without substantial state funding that must find ways of covering costs with a limited endowment. This does not apply to the Cal-Berkeleys or the Michigans or the UT Austins of the university system. What I'm talking about are holes in the system. There is also the less sinister practice of accepting students who can pay full tuition plus foreign student fees with less restrictive requirements. For every 3 or 4 full-tuition paying students a university can extend a full scholarship to a truly gifted (typically domestic) student. So what I was talking about are private schools with internal audits. K

[DavisH]

Our son educated much of his life in the UK, and now a student in university in Bkk,,is paid to teach English,in his spare time at the university,unbelievable the reason is that his English is better than the teachers

I totally believe that. But bear in mind, most of the competent english speaking Thais aren't employed as teachers. Most have been educated overseas and have high positions in universities/government or businesses. There's just no money in it for them to teach english.

[The manic]

It looks an idiotic unreal test of a language but at least genuine marks were given. Students should be doing IELTS or CEFR style skills based tests. The examiners who drew up the test seem to have no idea about accurate language testing.

Edited May 21, 2015 by The manic

[robertson468]

My Thai Wife, who majored in Thai Language and Culture, but has a reasonable grasp of English, having studied Journalism in Australia in English, was asked to teach University Students Philosophy in English at our local University. She pointed out that she had no formal qualifications either in English Language or Philosophy, but was given the "mai-pen-rai" and offered a salary for working one term. She was given the Philosophy Notes, in Thai, which she had to translate in to English, which we did together and boy that was a chore in itself! She duly tutored the students until the end of the first term, but complained consistently how poor their English Language was and had serious doubts if they would pass the Exam. Sure enough, after the exam, my Wife had to mark the papers, which resulted in the expected 99% failure, but was then instructed by the Principal to add something like 40% of marks based on attendance, which surprise, surprise gave all the students a pass mark for the term. My Wife was paid about 24,000 baht for her part time Lecturer Appointment for the term and the 33+ students paid about over 10,000 baht each for the course. So folks, ask yourselves again why the University was so keen to run the course - sadly no degree in mathematics offered for the right answer.

I have also associated with some Thai Teachers who teach English in the local Schools and I am not surprised that Thais have such a low level of English comprehension. Even the teachers say things like "Electric City" for electricity!

Edited May 21, 2015 by robertson468

[zeichen]

I am sorry but I absolutely blame the teacher and not the students nor the system. This is the worst test ever made. This guy has no business being an educator at all. Being bilingual doesn't mean that you actually know how or what to teach.

Shame on you for using profanity also and posted student's work publicly.

[FangFerang]

I see the problem, as being one of having no motivation to learn English. Uni students getting degrees in English typically teach grammar and NS teach pronunciation and listening(which is nearly impossible unless one speaks both the L1 and L2). A good tyeacher I spoke with said this was not the scenario ten years ago -- she said students could and did fail. Add to all that the bizarre mindset that "if the student fails it is the teacher's fault", especially in private schools, you have the turd sandwich currently being served.

If they had scholarships for high TOEIC or ELTS scores, or provided tuition reimbursement for accomplishment (or anything that translated to a reward system), many students would be motivated.

There is no reward for this.

I believe it is a case of asking for work without any promise of pay.

[retarius]

Sad but true. I sponsor a family member at a Thai university, paying tuition and lodging fees. The student is very diligent, hopes to become an English teacher and was top of the class at English in high school...but, cannot speak hardly a word of English, let alone hold a conversation.

[krdowney]

I am sorry but I absolutely blame the teacher and not the students nor the system. This is the worst test ever made. This guy has no business being an educator at all. Being bilingual doesn't mean that you actually know how or what to teach.

Shame on you for using profanity also and posted student's work publicly.

Have you ever taught? I'm not sure you've been in front of a classroom here. Criticizing the teacher is your fair opinion. But absolving Thai students of blame is completely unrealistic.

[fred Kubasa]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

Well, I've only been here for 11 years, am married to a Thai woman, ( with the usual 437 relatives), & she has 2 daughters both graduates of the Thai educational system, one was # 2 in her class and neither can speak even broken English which is still better then the other 435, who speak none ! # 2 works stocking shelves at Tesco.In these 11 years, being quite gregarious/outgoing/easy to meet, I've tried to engage in conversation with many, many Thai people, of all ages/educational levels and not met even one of those with "the perfect English" of which you boast ! Pray tell where one can find one of this very rare species or, are they all in the US or UK ?

[Time Traveller]

This is not just in thailand.

I remember seeing a lot of non-English speaking Asians at graduation day with their new Bachelor of Engineering degree who were the same ones who consistently got 20% or 30% in tests. Unfortunately, nowdays many western universities themselves are happy to pass failing Asian students who pay the big bucks for tuition.

[krdowney]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

Well, I've only been here for 11 years, am married to a Thai woman, ( with the usual 437 relatives), & she has 2 daughters both graduates of the Thai educational system, one was # 2 in her class and neither can speak even broken English which is still better then the other 435, who speak none ! # 2 works stocking shelves at Tesco.In these 11 years, being quite gregarious/outgoing/easy to meet, I've tried to engage in conversation with many, many Thai people, of all ages/educational levels and not met even one of those with "the perfect English" of which you boast ! Pray tell where one can find one of this very rare species or, are they all in the US or UK ?

Highly proficient Thai national English speakers do exist here, but they are uncommon. 7.5 to 8.5 on the IELTS is not unheard of. None get that from Government schools alone. They need after school programs or International Schools and a year overseas in the US, UK or Aus/NZ. Money helps.

[ThaiUser]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

Well, I've only been here for 11 years, am married to a Thai woman, ( with the usual 437 relatives), & she has 2 daughters both graduates of the Thai educational system, one was # 2 in her class and neither can speak even broken English which is still better then the other 435, who speak none ! # 2 works stocking shelves at Tesco.In these 11 years, being quite gregarious/outgoing/easy to meet, I've tried to engage in conversation with many, many Thai people, of all ages/educational levels and not met even one of those with "the perfect English" of which you boast ! Pray tell where one can find one of this very rare species or, are they all in the US or UK ?

Trust me, in a country of over 60 million people you will find the odd one out who would be able of having a reasonable conversation with you. Maybe you never met the right person or didn’t search hard enough.

Perfect English is an expression that needs to be defined and looking at some of the comments, I fear, we would have problems to find a common denominator that could be applied to all fractional views here presented.

[tonbridgebrit]

Thailand, don't worry about !

Your neighbours are Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Even if their economies are growing more rapidly than yours, it will still take decades for them to catch up with you, and that's on the GDP per person level !!

[flyingdoc]

Jessi has hit the nail on the head, unfortunately !

[sambum]

Haven't checked all the pages on this topic, but as the subject is about the standard of English:-

Bangkok:- The host of a popular English-teaching TV program “Chris Delivery” has stirred a hot debate on Thailand’s English teaching when he posted a photo of an English test paper that showed a score of 7 out of 100.

"Christ Wright posted the photo on his Facebook wall, saying it was a test paper of a student from a famous university in Thailand whose name was not given."

So is it "Christ Wright" or "Chris Wright"?

[Benbkk26]

I don't know Chris Wright or his work but by the state of his Facebook post I am not surprised Thai students are struggling, his grammar is terrible.

[brewsterbudgen]

Typical Thai bashing thread.

I've employed over 100 graduates here, many with perfect English, some with poorer English.

To say they all "can't give a shit about learning" is absolute nonsense.

There are many very smart people here who would have done well at any school.

Well, I've only been here for 11 years, am married to a Thai woman, ( with the usual 437 relatives), & she has 2 daughters both graduates of the Thai educational system, one was # 2 in her class and neither can speak even broken English which is still better then the other 435, who speak none ! # 2 works stocking shelves at Tesco.In these 11 years, being quite gregarious/outgoing/easy to meet, I've tried to engage in conversation with many, many Thai people, of all ages/educational levels and not met even one of those with "the perfect English" of which you boast ! Pray tell where one can find one of this very rare species or, are they all in the US or UK ?

Highly proficient Thai national English speakers do exist here, but they are uncommon. 7.5 to 8.5 on the IELTS is not unheard of. None get that from Government schools alone. They need after school programs or International Schools and a year overseas in the US, UK or Aus/NZ. Money helps.

Or they can study with me...☺

[Lukecan]

My wifes daughter 13 YO. Wants to be a Doctor???

I have tried to help her to speak a little English even offered to get her private tuition, her response is Why should I learn English? I am Thai, I live in Thailand, NO need to learn English.

I was lost for words, Made me feel like I was just .

She actually has a point.

[MaeJoMTB]

My wifes daughter 13 YO. Wants to be a Doctor???

I have tried to help her to speak a little English even offered to get her private tuition, her response is Why should I learn English? I am Thai, I live in Thailand, NO need to learn English.

I was lost for words, Made me feel like I was just .

She actually has a point.

Thai doctors are now required to speak English.

If she can't speak English, she won't be learning to be a doctor.

[KED]

So how do Thai students go overseas for post-secondary education get in the door of a USA College/University, and yet graduate!

Of course there are many elite Thais who either have English-speaking parents or have gone to western schools for their education. Also, some less reputable schools in the U.S. are also dipoma mills (remember, Yingluck has a U.S. college degree but is far from proficient in English).

Any Thai student who does well in education does it despite their Thai education, not because of it.

[zeichen]

"Thai doctors are now required to speak English."

NO, they are required to pass an English proficiency but speaking isn't a part of the assessment it is a paper test. So many will understand, comprehend but still have poor verbal communication.

But you are right, they need to have the highest English scores just to get accepted into a program. My cousin just graduated from Medical School and he can understand me and is very bright but cannot speak English very fluently. He has good vocabulary just doesn't always know how to formulate the sentence.

[fareastguy]

My wifes daughter 13 YO. Wants to be a Doctor???

I have tried to help her to speak a little English even offered to get her private tuition, her response is Why should I learn English? I am Thai, I live in Thailand, NO need to learn English.

I was lost for words, Made me feel like I was just .

Just explain to her unless she can actually read, write & converse in English she won't get past emptying bed pans !!