The truth really does hurt

[xylophone]

Jeez, the OP starts a thread with a subject which seems very reasonable, and I really can't believe the hostility of some people and their replies with their small-mindedness and the assumptions made by some which are so far off the mark as to make one wonder if they have forgotten their medications!

Let's start with the salary he is offering which amounts to 18,000 baht per couple (9000 baht each) along with free accommodation, use of a motorbike and free gasoline, plus TV and Internet and perhaps free electricity (?).

Don't forget this is in the far north where traditionally salaries are lower because of its rural nature, however I will use the example of that salary and compare it to those being paid here in the party town of Patong where things are much more expensive. As an example my ex GF was being paid 9000 baht a month working in a hotel as a qualified accountant (university educated as well) and her best friend, another university qualified accountant was working in another larger hotel and her salary was the same.

They rented a room between them which cost them 3000 baht each, and on top of that they had to pay for electricity and gasoline. However let's say that they were left with 6000 baht each to run their motorcycles, feed themselves and generally live……….now compare that to what Kannot is offering and it amounts to another 50%!!!!!, so to say that the salary is not enough is poppycock.

If you want more examples I will give them to you: – a lady friend here runs a laundry and pays her staff 7000 baht a month, another lady who owns a beauty salon pays her staff likewise and yet another Thai girl I know works nights cleaning up and looking after a nightclub and she gets 10,000 baht a month which includes tips.

I could go on and on with more examples, this especially as the minimum wage in Thailand at the moment equates to 7800 baht per month for a six-day week (which by the way not all employers adhere to) so the following posters really have not got a handle on what is being paid in Thailand at present………..

Quote zeichen: “Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage”.

Quote Varrius: “Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.
Get real”.

Quote Beetlejuice:” It`s 9000 baht per month, no matter even if you try to make it sound more attractive by explaining this as 18000 baht for two persons, which in today`s terms 9000 baht and a free bowl of rice is no big deal for full time employment”.

AND “Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation”.

And I don't know how “soibiker” comes to this conclusion: “If the OP's attitude on here is any indication of the way he is in real life, I'm beginning to understand why nobody wants to work for him for long”. Because IMO the OP has kept his cool very well under difficult circumstances and some quite mind-boggling posts, insults and accusations.

In amongst all the posts there are a few likely reasons as to why he is finding staff difficult to keep, and isolation could be one of them, and the fact that they are expected to work every day when in the rural areas this is not the norm.

Now a suggestion for you Kannot………..I wonder if it would work if you suggested that for every year that the folk worked for you, at the far corner of your land you would give them "X square metres" as their own, and 10 years would see them having a very small plot of land upon which they could build their own house. Of course they would have to work for the full 10 years before you actually "gifted it" fully to them, but maybe that would be worth it? Or indeed that they took control and ownership of the pineapples and anything they could get through selling them, would be theirs?

[kannot]

Jeez, the OP starts a thread with a subject which seems very reasonable, and I really can't believe the hostility of some people and their replies with their small-mindedness and the assumptions made by some which are so far off the mark as to make one wonder if they have forgotten their medications!

Let's start with the salary he is offering which amounts to 18,000 baht per couple (9000 baht each) along with free accommodation, use of a motorbike and free gasoline, plus TV and Internet and perhaps free electricity (?).

Don't forget this is in the far north where traditionally salaries are lower because of its rural nature, however I will use the example of that salary and compare it to those being paid here in the party town of Patong where things are much more expensive. As an example my ex GF was being paid 9000 baht a month working in a hotel as a qualified accountant (university educated as well) and her best friend, another university qualified accountant was working in another larger hotel and her salary was the same.

They rented a room between them which cost them 3000 baht each, and on top of that they had to pay for electricity and gasoline. However let's say that they were left with 6000 baht each to run their motorcycles, feed themselves and generally live……….now compare that to what Kannot is offering and it amounts to another 50%!!!!!, so to say that the salary is not enough is poppycock.

If you want more examples I will give them to you: – a lady friend here runs a laundry and pays her staff 7000 baht a month, another lady who owns a beauty salon pays her staff likewise and yet another Thai girl I know works nights cleaning up and looking after a nightclub and she gets 10,000 baht a month which includes tips.

I could go on and on with more examples, this especially as the minimum wage in Thailand at the moment equates to 7800 baht per month for a six-day week (which by the way not all employers adhere to) so the following posters really have not got a handle on what is being paid in Thailand at present………..

Quote zeichen: “Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage”.

Quote Varrius: “Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real”.

Quote Beetlejuice:” It`s 9000 baht per month, no matter even if you try to make it sound more attractive by explaining this as 18000 baht for two persons, which in today`s terms 9000 baht and a free bowl of rice is no big deal for full time employment”.

AND “Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation”.

And I don't know how “soibiker” comes to this conclusion: “If the OP's attitude on here is any indication of the way he is in real life, I'm beginning to understand why nobody wants to work for him for long”. Because IMO the OP has kept his cool very well under difficult circumstances and some quite mind-boggling posts, insults and accusations.

In amongst all the posts there are a few likely reasons as to why he is finding staff difficult to keep, and isolation could be one of them, and the fact that they are expected to work every day when in the rural areas this is not the norm.

Now a suggestion for you Kannot………..I wonder if it would work if you suggested that for every year that the folk worked for you, at the far corner of your land you would give them "X square metres" as their own, and 10 years would see them having a very small plot of land upon which they could build their own house. Of course they would have to work for the full 10 years before you actually "gifted it" fully to them, but maybe that would be worth it? Or indeed that they took control and ownership of the pineapples and anything they could get through selling them, would be theirs?

Dont worry the last few stragglers on the post have failed to read or comprehend whats preceeded their posts and assume a load of old cobblers.

I dont think giving them land would achieve anything and personally I wouldnt want to do it anyway for a myriad of reasons.

It appears you either get them lazy or not, how much money you give them is irrelevant they dont suddenly become hard working.

Ive had a couple of good workers as mentioned the first couple stayed 6 months left without warning then 2 months later asked to come back but didnt then called us again asking to come back but didnt so who knows what was going on there. The last two were good and the girl wanted to stay but the boy said the work was too hard although he told us he was a security guard before on the bts for 18k a month but he said the work was too long.

Both were good but alas didnt stay, main problem being they dont tell you why they go the agent usually tells us later, what they tell us is " father sick"

So out of about 14 people id say 4 were ok though the best "couple" were the last, stayed 6 weeks never said the work was too hard and always did it but again with the hard work i always did it with them, everyday stuff fish feeding weeding hedgecutting they did alone but pipe laying tree planting gravel shovelling I did half with them.

We tell them they will get more each year and a 1 month bonus, none have lasted a year.

[kannot]

Jeez, the OP starts a thread with a subject which seems very reasonable, and I really can't believe the hostility of some people and their replies with their small-mindedness and the assumptions made by some which are so far off the mark as to make one wonder if they have forgotten their medications!

Let's start with the salary he is offering which amounts to 18,000 baht per couple (9000 baht each) along with free accommodation, use of a motorbike and free gasoline, plus TV and Internet and perhaps free electricity (?).

Don't forget this is in the far north where traditionally salaries are lower because of its rural nature, however I will use the example of that salary and compare it to those being paid here in the party town of Patong where things are much more expensive. As an example my ex GF was being paid 9000 baht a month working in a hotel as a qualified accountant (university educated as well) and her best friend, another university qualified accountant was working in another larger hotel and her salary was the same.

They rented a room between them which cost them 3000 baht each, and on top of that they had to pay for electricity and gasoline. However let's say that they were left with 6000 baht each to run their motorcycles, feed themselves and generally live……….now compare that to what Kannot is offering and it amounts to another 50%!!!!!, so to say that the salary is not enough is poppycock.

If you want more examples I will give them to you: – a lady friend here runs a laundry and pays her staff 7000 baht a month, another lady who owns a beauty salon pays her staff likewise and yet another Thai girl I know works nights cleaning up and looking after a nightclub and she gets 10,000 baht a month which includes tips.

I could go on and on with more examples, this especially as the minimum wage in Thailand at the moment equates to 7800 baht per month for a six-day week (which by the way not all employers adhere to) so the following posters really have not got a handle on what is being paid in Thailand at present………..

Quote zeichen: “Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage”.

Quote Varrius: “Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real”.

Quote Beetlejuice:” It`s 9000 baht per month, no matter even if you try to make it sound more attractive by explaining this as 18000 baht for two persons, which in today`s terms 9000 baht and a free bowl of rice is no big deal for full time employment”.

AND “Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation”.

And I don't know how “soibiker” comes to this conclusion: “If the OP's attitude on here is any indication of the way he is in real life, I'm beginning to understand why nobody wants to work for him for long”. Because IMO the OP has kept his cool very well under difficult circumstances and some quite mind-boggling posts, insults and accusations.

In amongst all the posts there are a few likely reasons as to why he is finding staff difficult to keep, and isolation could be one of them, and the fact that they are expected to work every day when in the rural areas this is not the norm.

Now a suggestion for you Kannot………..I wonder if it would work if you suggested that for every year that the folk worked for you, at the far corner of your land you would give them "X square metres" as their own, and 10 years would see them having a very small plot of land upon which they could build their own house. Of course they would have to work for the full 10 years before you actually "gifted it" fully to them, but maybe that would be worth it? Or indeed that they took control and ownership of the pineapples and anything they could get through selling them, would be theirs?

Forgot we also mentioned if they took care of the pineapples well they could have 20% of the money which is about 120k per crop so about 24k to them.................again no interest, by taking care all they had to do was weed them only, locals cut and take them to the factory.

Edited May 24, 2015 by kannot

[kannot]

Anyway, my guess is that they resent farangs that come here and circumvent laws and build a cushy life on the backs of poor thais.

They probably also resent being offered the absolute minimum, by the rich farang who loves to lord it over them and order them around all day.

Think about it, if say; a rich Indian came to your country and did that.

L

Wanted you to live and work on the property24/7, no identity or life of your own, for absolute minimum wage

Most would tell him to f#ck off and then dob him in to immigration for good measure id guess

Why not try not "guessing"

[kannot]

kannot = cannot, and most of the above seem to understand why.

Seems you have a lot to learn, if you read "all " the replies and look at the "likes" youll see most tend to disagree with you.

The salary package is fine the accommodation is fine but most are lazy the last boy spent 5 weeks sitting on his backside doing nothing as can be seen easily by knee high weeds.

Would you like to read "all" the thread instead?

Edited May 24, 2015 by kannot

[kannot]

Anyway, my guess is that they resent farangs that come here and circumvent laws and build a cushy life on the backs of poor thais.

They probably also resent being offered the absolute minimum, by the rich farang who loves to lord it over them and order them around all day.

Think about it, if say; a rich Indian came to your country and did that.

L

Wanted you to live and work on the property24/7, no identity or life of your own, for absolute minimum wage

Most would tell him to f#ck off and then dob him in to immigration for good measure id guess

explain how they are working 24/7?

Explain why they should be calling immigration?

Explain what laws have been circumvented?

Are they really being offered a minimum salary? free house/electric/internet/water/food/rice/fish/ motorbike/fuel/1 day a week off 18k baht a month per couple.

Ask yourself why some Thais are poor? I wonder if they are lazy?

If anyone needs to "think about it" I would suggest its yourself

[Robert24]

@kannot: I really don't know why you haven't been successful hiring someone who stays at your work at those comp levels. As I mentioned previously, you pay more + additional benefits for an easier job than what I hired someone (Thai) for. And I get regular requests from other people who would like that job.

Thais are not generally lazy, that is the wrong conclusion. Some may be, similar to other countries, you will always find people that are lazy. The difference in Thailand is that the government won't help you if you are lazy whereas in many Western countries, the government will feed you if you don't want to work.

Have a look again at your situation why people don't want that job. There must be other reasons. And think again about your pay structure. Recommend a lock in bonus, say after 2 or 3 years. Or you pay out one third of a lock in bonus after year 1, 2, 3.... etc whichever way you want to structure it. Believe me money works wonders everywhere in the world also here.

[NUUM]

kannot = cannot, and most of the above seem to understand why.

Would you like to read "all" the thread instead?

No. It's your thread and your problem, not mine.

[xylophone]

Jeez, the OP starts a thread with a subject which seems very reasonable, and I really can't believe the hostility of some people and their replies with their small-mindedness and the assumptions made by some which are so far off the mark as to make one wonder if they have forgotten their medications!

Let's start with the salary he is offering which amounts to 18,000 baht per couple (9000 baht each) along with free accommodation, use of a motorbike and free gasoline, plus TV and Internet and perhaps free electricity (?).

Don't forget this is in the far north where traditionally salaries are lower because of its rural nature, however I will use the example of that salary and compare it to those being paid here in the party town of Patong where things are much more expensive. As an example my ex GF was being paid 9000 baht a month working in a hotel as a qualified accountant (university educated as well) and her best friend, another university qualified accountant was working in another larger hotel and her salary was the same.

They rented a room between them which cost them 3000 baht each, and on top of that they had to pay for electricity and gasoline. However let's say that they were left with 6000 baht each to run their motorcycles, feed themselves and generally live……….now compare that to what Kannot is offering and it amounts to another 50%!!!!!, so to say that the salary is not enough is poppycock.

If you want more examples I will give them to you: – a lady friend here runs a laundry and pays her staff 7000 baht a month, another lady who owns a beauty salon pays her staff likewise and yet another Thai girl I know works nights cleaning up and looking after a nightclub and she gets 10,000 baht a month which includes tips.

I could go on and on with more examples, this especially as the minimum wage in Thailand at the moment equates to 7800 baht per month for a six-day week (which by the way not all employers adhere to) so the following posters really have not got a handle on what is being paid in Thailand at present………..

Quote zeichen: “Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage”.

Quote Varrius: “Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real”.

Quote Beetlejuice:” It`s 9000 baht per month, no matter even if you try to make it sound more attractive by explaining this as 18000 baht for two persons, which in today`s terms 9000 baht and a free bowl of rice is no big deal for full time employment”.

AND “Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation”.

And I don't know how “soibiker” comes to this conclusion: “If the OP's attitude on here is any indication of the way he is in real life, I'm beginning to understand why nobody wants to work for him for long”. Because IMO the OP has kept his cool very well under difficult circumstances and some quite mind-boggling posts, insults and accusations.

In amongst all the posts there are a few likely reasons as to why he is finding staff difficult to keep, and isolation could be one of them, and the fact that they are expected to work every day when in the rural areas this is not the norm.

Now a suggestion for you Kannot………..I wonder if it would work if you suggested that for every year that the folk worked for you, at the far corner of your land you would give them "X square metres" as their own, and 10 years would see them having a very small plot of land upon which they could build their own house. Of course they would have to work for the full 10 years before you actually "gifted it" fully to them, but maybe that would be worth it? Or indeed that they took control and ownership of the pineapples and anything they could get through selling them, would be theirs?

Dont worry the last few stragglers on the post have failed to read or comprehend whats preceeded their posts and assume a load of old cobblers.

I dont think giving them land would achieve anything and personally I wouldnt want to do it anyway for a myriad of reasons.

It appears you either get them lazy or not, how much money you give them is irrelevant they dont suddenly become hard working.

Ive had a couple of good workers as mentioned the first couple stayed 6 months left without warning then 2 months later asked to come back but didnt then called us again asking to come back but didnt so who knows what was going on there. The last two were good and the girl wanted to stay but the boy said the work was too hard although he told us he was a security guard before on the bts for 18k a month but he said the work was too long.

Both were good but alas didnt stay, main problem being they dont tell you why they go the agent usually tells us later, what they tell us is " father sick"

So out of about 14 people id say 4 were ok though the best "couple" were the last, stayed 6 weeks never said the work was too hard and always did it but again with the hard work i always did it with them, everyday stuff fish feeding weeding hedgecutting they did alone but pipe laying tree planting gravel shovelling I did half with them.

We tell them they will get more each year and a 1 month bonus, none have lasted a year.

Yes I can understand your reluctance to give land to them as an incentive, and reading your following post, it seems you have already offered them a percentage of the successful pineapple harvest.

In light of all it has been said, it would seem to point to the fact that some folk are just lazy and do not want to do the work, this despite the salary and incentives (house etc) appearing to be way above what would be considered a good wage in northern Thailand.

It probably boils down to something I have said earlier in as much as folk in northern Thailand do not want to work on a daily basis, preferring to watch the rice grow (or whatever else grows) from the comfort of their hammock. Having said that, is it at all possible that the work you need doing could be done on a "one off, one on" daily basis so that they in fact work four days a week and get a day off every other day to do what they want to do.

From what you have said, the work is not too labourious and it may be not necessary to work every day to get the result you desire, so this might suit some people however you may have to adjust the salary and benefits you offer............and at the same time this gives them with the opportunity to do what they want with their spare time, whether it be to relax or visit relatives/friends etc?

Just trying to think outside of the square, and some things are just worth trying to see if they can benefit both parties.

[kannot]

kannot = cannot, and most of the above seem to understand why.

Would you like to read "all" the thread instead?

No. It's your thread and your problem, not mine.

In that case get out of it.......simple eh

[kannot]

Jeez, the OP starts a thread with a subject which seems very reasonable, and I really can't believe the hostility of some people and their replies with their small-mindedness and the assumptions made by some which are so far off the mark as to make one wonder if they have forgotten their medications!

Let's start with the salary he is offering which amounts to 18,000 baht per couple (9000 baht each) along with free accommodation, use of a motorbike and free gasoline, plus TV and Internet and perhaps free electricity (?).

Don't forget this is in the far north where traditionally salaries are lower because of its rural nature, however I will use the example of that salary and compare it to those being paid here in the party town of Patong where things are much more expensive. As an example my ex GF was being paid 9000 baht a month working in a hotel as a qualified accountant (university educated as well) and her best friend, another university qualified accountant was working in another larger hotel and her salary was the same.

They rented a room between them which cost them 3000 baht each, and on top of that they had to pay for electricity and gasoline. However let's say that they were left with 6000 baht each to run their motorcycles, feed themselves and generally live……….now compare that to what Kannot is offering and it amounts to another 50%!!!!!, so to say that the salary is not enough is poppycock.

If you want more examples I will give them to you: – a lady friend here runs a laundry and pays her staff 7000 baht a month, another lady who owns a beauty salon pays her staff likewise and yet another Thai girl I know works nights cleaning up and looking after a nightclub and she gets 10,000 baht a month which includes tips.

I could go on and on with more examples, this especially as the minimum wage in Thailand at the moment equates to 7800 baht per month for a six-day week (which by the way not all employers adhere to) so the following posters really have not got a handle on what is being paid in Thailand at present………..

Quote zeichen: “Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage”.

Quote Varrius: “Ok 18,000 for 2 people a month. My sister in law is a police Sgt in Surin and earns 15,000 a month before tax and pension etc. Perhaps you should vet your employees better and employ an overseer to make sure they work.

Get real”.

Quote Beetlejuice:” It`s 9000 baht per month, no matter even if you try to make it sound more attractive by explaining this as 18000 baht for two persons, which in today`s terms 9000 baht and a free bowl of rice is no big deal for full time employment”.

AND “Gone are the days of the subservient Thai workers willing to give their all for a pittance and expected to be grateful for it. Over the years the working conditions and economy have substantially improved in Thailand, most can now stick two fingers up to what the OP is offering, as I would do in that situation”.

And I don't know how “soibiker” comes to this conclusion: “If the OP's attitude on here is any indication of the way he is in real life, I'm beginning to understand why nobody wants to work for him for long”. Because IMO the OP has kept his cool very well under difficult circumstances and some quite mind-boggling posts, insults and accusations.

In amongst all the posts there are a few likely reasons as to why he is finding staff difficult to keep, and isolation could be one of them, and the fact that they are expected to work every day when in the rural areas this is not the norm.

Now a suggestion for you Kannot………..I wonder if it would work if you suggested that for every year that the folk worked for you, at the far corner of your land you would give them "X square metres" as their own, and 10 years would see them having a very small plot of land upon which they could build their own house. Of course they would have to work for the full 10 years before you actually "gifted it" fully to them, but maybe that would be worth it? Or indeed that they took control and ownership of the pineapples and anything they could get through selling them, would be theirs?

Dont worry the last few stragglers on the post have failed to read or comprehend whats preceeded their posts and assume a load of old cobblers.

I dont think giving them land would achieve anything and personally I wouldnt want to do it anyway for a myriad of reasons.

It appears you either get them lazy or not, how much money you give them is irrelevant they dont suddenly become hard working.

Ive had a couple of good workers as mentioned the first couple stayed 6 months left without warning then 2 months later asked to come back but didnt then called us again asking to come back but didnt so who knows what was going on there. The last two were good and the girl wanted to stay but the boy said the work was too hard although he told us he was a security guard before on the bts for 18k a month but he said the work was too long.

Both were good but alas didnt stay, main problem being they dont tell you why they go the agent usually tells us later, what they tell us is " father sick"

So out of about 14 people id say 4 were ok though the best "couple" were the last, stayed 6 weeks never said the work was too hard and always did it but again with the hard work i always did it with them, everyday stuff fish feeding weeding hedgecutting they did alone but pipe laying tree planting gravel shovelling I did half with them.

We tell them they will get more each year and a 1 month bonus, none have lasted a year.

Yes I can understand your reluctance to give land to them as an incentive, and reading your following post, it seems you have already offered them a percentage of the successful pineapple harvest.

In light of all it has been said, it would seem to point to the fact that some folk are just lazy and do not want to do the work, this despite the salary and incentives (house etc) appearing to be way above what would be considered a good wage in northern Thailand.

It probably boils down to something I have said earlier in as much as folk in northern Thailand do not want to work on a daily basis, preferring to watch the rice grow (or whatever else grows) from the comfort of their hammock. Having said that, is it at all possible that the work you need doing could be done on a "one off, one on" daily basis so that they in fact work four days a week and get a day off every other day to do what they want to do.

From what you have said, the work is not too labourious and it may be not necessary to work every day to get the result you desire, so this might suit some people however you may have to adjust the salary and benefits you offer............and at the same time this gives them with the opportunity to do what they want with their spare time, whether it be to relax or visit relatives/friends etc?

Just trying to think outside of the square, and some things are just worth trying to see if they can benefit both parties.

Just to clarify we are near Pranburi which is close to Hua Hin not oooooop north however salaries are about 3-400 a day here for the construction crews however this work is not as hard as construction.

My Wife says they are just young and flit from one job to the next, some however are over 30

[kannot]

@kannot: I really don't know why you haven't been successful hiring someone who stays at your work at those comp levels. As I mentioned previously, you pay more + additional benefits for an easier job than what I hired someone (Thai) for. And I get regular requests from other people who would like that job.

Thais are not generally lazy, that is the wrong conclusion. Some may be, similar to other countries, you will always find people that are lazy. The difference in Thailand is that the government won't help you if you are lazy whereas in many Western countries, the government will feed you if you don't want to work.

Have a look again at your situation why people don't want that job. There must be other reasons. And think again about your pay structure. Recommend a lock in bonus, say after 2 or 3 years. Or you pay out one third of a lock in bonus after year 1, 2, 3.... etc whichever way you want to structure it. Believe me money works wonders everywhere in the world also here.

Tried many ways you have mentioned already even 5 days a week, still don't stay, the lazy ones just get sacked, it doesn't take long to see how they are.

In fact we have told them if theres no weeds and everything is tidy all youll have to do is feed fish and water unless I have some project to do such as bury water pipes, if nothing to do you can do what you like even go out on the bike which one couple did, they went to the sea for the day.

[wabothai]

Don't let anybody tell you you are a cheap charley! I have had builders here doing really heavy work (roofing, welding, block laying, digging, pouring concrete) and they were very happy with 300 baht per day. That's about 6,500 per month for 5 days a week... So for your 20,000 plus extras I could get 3 people working their ass off... People around here would call that job a winning lottery ticket! Watering trees, feeding fish and animals, sounds like a holiday!

lucky you !!

[GOLDBUGGY]

kannot i tend to agree with you,

my father inlaw, will sit in his hamock all day, they work when its rice time, thats it 3 months of the year,

the mother inlaw does a bit grows a bit of veg to sell,

you see it all round the village there isnt many thai men that want to work,(in the villages im talking about)

i wanted some to put some fence posts in for me, i ended up doing them myself, they would come one day then have 2 off spending the monet they earned,

Believe it or not this is one of the reasons I love Thailand. That everyone here is so laid back, so I can to, as nobody cares..

I've done my time working my Buns off, with many Overtime Hours. All that ever got me was 2 Divorces and 2 lost fully paid houses and many lost hours.

So what if it takes a week instead of a day to finish fence posts? Do you have a Heard of Wild Water Buffalo escaping every night? If there is no rush to do this than don't rush. It will get done in it's own time. I know this goes against the grain for most Westerners, but you are living in Thailand. So when in Rome do as the Romans do.

[Patong2]

Very Interesting thread Kannot

The impressions I have got as a long time visitor led me to the conclusion that staff would be a tremendous problem here and what you are saying seems to bear that out. Logical thinking doesn't solve the problem.

Clearly many of the posters have never employed staff. Some I just wonder if they have ever worked and who was the poor idiot paying them?.

Good luck with it and keep us informed.

[bamukloy]

Anyway, my guess is that they resent farangs that come here and circumvent laws and build a cushy life on the backs of poor thais.

They probably also resent being offered the absolute minimum, by the rich farang who loves to lord it over them and order them around all day.

Think about it, if say; a rich Indian came to your country and did that.

L

Wanted you to live and work on the property24/7, no identity or life of your own, for absolute minimum wage

Most would tell him to f#ck off and then dob him in to immigration for good measure id guess

explain how they are working 24/7?

Explain why they should be calling immigration?

Explain what laws have been circumvented?

Are they really being offered a minimum salary? free house/electric/internet/water/food/rice/fish/ motorbike/fuel/1 day a week off 18k baht a month per couple.

Ask yourself why some Thais are poor? I wonder if they are lazy?

If anyone needs to "think about it" I would suggest its yourself

They might not have to work 24/7, but they have to stay at the place, under the supervision of the bossy old pompous farang.

They dont have to ring immigration but if they happened to ask the question does the farang have citizenship or registered thai company following all tge regulations and paying tax and or have a work permit to perform duties that a thai cab do

And that overall allows him to legally profit off land he doesnt own, then depending on the answer..you could be in deep shjt.

All those illustrious benefits you claim:

Internet: would probably not use anyway as they wouldnt have any computer, laptop. Theyd be flatout owing a decent phone on those wages.

A free fish now and then and a few bowls of rice would hardly have them over the moon either as thais can live on 2bob a week if they want to.

Free accomodation: this is included in nearly all that type of live on premises work, so your not mr wonderful in offerring that as theyd probably prefer to live with their own, and certainly not under the nose of lord muck from turd island!

Edited May 24, 2015 by bamukloy

[kannot]

Anyway, my guess is that they resent farangs that come here and circumvent laws and build a cushy life on the backs of poor thais.

They probably also resent being offered the absolute minimum, by the rich farang who loves to lord it over them and order them around all day.

Think about it, if say; a rich Indian came to your country and did that.

L

Wanted you to live and work on the property24/7, no identity or life of your own, for absolute minimum wage

Most would tell him to f#ck off and then dob him in to immigration for good measure id guess

explain how they are working 24/7?

Explain why they should be calling immigration?

Explain what laws have been circumvented?

Are they really being offered a minimum salary? free house/electric/internet/water/food/rice/fish/ motorbike/fuel/1 day a week off 18k baht a month per couple.

Ask yourself why some Thais are poor? I wonder if they are lazy?

If anyone needs to "think about it" I would suggest its yourself

They might not have to work 24/7, but they have to stay at the place, under the supervision of the bossy old pompous farang.

They dont have to ring immigration but if they happened to ask the question does the farang have citizenship or registered thai company following all tge regulations and paying tax and or have a work permit to perform duties that a thai cab do

And that overall allows him to legally profit off land he doesnt own, then depending on the answer..you could be in deep shjt.

All those illustrious benefits you claim:

Internet: would probably not use anyway as they wouldnt have any computer, laptop. Theyd be flatout owing a decent phone on those wages.

A free fish now and then and a few bowls of rice would hardly have them over the moon either as thais can live on 2bob a week if they want to.

Free accomodation: this is included in nearly all that type of live on premises work, so your not mr wonderful in offerring that as theyd probably prefer to live with their own, and certainly not under the nose of lord muck from turd island!

You have no idea if Im a bossy pompous farang that's your assumption based on nothing but a website and if old is 51 then yes im guilty, your backtracking with your "they might not have to work 24/7"...... explain how Im doing something that I shouldn't immigration have already spoken on what we can/cant do and it was fine to cut your grass maintain your house etc but either way Im still employing someone else to do it, Wife owns the land as well you know farang cannot ,paid for in "her" money yes it was "hers" not mine. It cost her 800k, yes for 15 rai not per rai

They ask for internet you'd be surprised but they ALL have mobile phones often two and they all get the internet through them, a free fish now and then..well let me tell you, they get in there with a net and catch 5-6 a day at about 60cm each, they get sick of it after a week or so and take 2-3 a week after the initial bonanza, free accommodation isn't offered everywhere and to be honest have you ever seen this accommodation when it is free? I have its basically a sh*thole PLUS they have to share that hole with at least 4-5 other folk which according to the last staff boy who left he didn't want.

PS they are about 400 metres from where I live, hardly under your nose, you seem very out of touch with things right now.

Here have a fish supper we had 4000 when they were put in probably double that now the lake is 1 rai and7 metres deep.

PPS the Wife profits off the land, but to be honest it aint much of a profit in fact none the pineapples are there to keep the land tidy more than anything else, by the time its been fertilised and had some other stuff chucked on it would be about 90-100k profit which pays towards the staff cost ,so let me see if she gets 100k and pays the staff 216k a year in salary id call that a pretty big loss, yes you're right im sure the tax folk would be very interested.

Edited May 24, 2015 by kannot

[kannot]

Very Interesting thread Kannot

The impressions I have got as a long time visitor led me to the conclusion that staff would be a tremendous problem here and what you are saying seems to bear that out. Logical thinking doesn't solve the problem.

Clearly many of the posters have never employed staff. Some I just wonder if they have ever worked and who was the poor idiot paying them?.

Good luck with it and keep us informed.

Local shopkeepers have told me the same story, impossible to find decent staff many simply run on using their entire family, I was surprised to learn that these out of the way shops have a very good turnover mainly from selling chemicals for agriculture often making 200k a month profit on sales. One of the shopkeepers showed me her 3 I phones she had as an extra bonus for her sales, not that I agree with the heavy use of some of this stuff.

[redandyellow]

I allege that only people from England use the phrase "Bone Idle"

Thank God I'm not either

But we're all well on our way to that shopworn phrase

more or less

So please stop deluding yourself otherwise

and get on with it

[redandyellow]

"..You have no idea if I'm a bossy pompous farang that's your assumption.."

I never assumed that at all, but now that you mention it..

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire - but only you know you for sure - I'll guess you're firm but fair with the help..

On another note, it's hard to get good help, because the good ones are mostly all working at good jobs, so they stay there..

And sometimes disgruntled help puts poop in the pie, if you recall the Oscar-winning movie "The Help"

Beware of poop in the pie

Best

[kannot]

"..You have no idea if I'm a bossy pompous farang that's your assumption.."

I never assumed that at all, but now that you mention it..

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire - but only you know you for sure - I'll guess you're firm but fair with the help..

On another note, it's hard to get good help, because the good ones are mostly all working at good jobs, so they stay there..

And sometimes disgruntled help puts poop in the pie, if you recall the Oscar-winning movie "The Help"

Beware of poop in the pie

Best

hmmmmmmmmmm I don't know what youre taking but it works well, ps I don't eat pie especially humble

[kannot]

Am I getting this right, you pull up stumps,come to Thailand, flaunt goodness knows how many laws

Then treat the locals like plebs calling them lazy, stupid ect for not wanting to serve his lordship 24/7

For what? About 10 bucks a day. Comon man!

Lucky they are only lazy, stupid ect and not vindictive as they could probably get you shut down quick smart

No.....no you're getting it very very wrong

[kannot]

I know this is meant to be a Thai bashing thread, but I just think it is a little short sighted to blame the locals for all foreigner inability to work with them.

First of all the OP stated that he had the same problem with Hill Tribe and Burmese workers. The problem is a universal problem and not a Thais are lazy problem.

In this day and age when anyone can get a job at Global or some kind of shop earning the same kind of money for working less than 2 hours a day. These shops hire 40 staff members when they have only 20 customers. They get to hang out and talk with their friends all day and are only bothered to work a few hours a day. So why would anyone want to work extremely hard laboring in the hot sun for the same salary.

There isn't a country in the world where younger generations cannot wait to graduate from high school so they can go work on a farm busting their hump all day for a pittance.

Finding good staff is hard, but the problem you are having is keeping them so I suggest you look internally at the problem. The OP is not currently in the country but often foreign managers or bosses tend to do things that either shame their staff or make them feel uncomfortable. I don't know if the OP has ever raised his voice near or at, or criticized a worker but that will get them to leave quickly.

My suggestion for a job like this is to hire a foreman and have him find the workers. Pay him directly and have him deal with hiring and training workers. That way you limit the exposure you have with them. You won't need to house them or offer them anything.

Our gardener was 74 years old when he stopped working. We had him for 10+ years and our parents used him for 35 years. He ran a small crew but when he died they kind of fell apart. Unless you can find people over 50, you will never have the same commitment or humility.

Frankly your salary is just too low to keep people. Others think you spend too much but really in this day and age 2 people earning 9k a month each is min wage.

All of the agriculture is suffering from the same kind of problem.

How simple is it to pull out all weeds, water trees and feed fish? So you think I now need to hire a 3rd person as well? to "train" them...........how hard can it be

Most of them come through an agent, if you want to ask the local other land owners what they pay youll find its a lot lot less and their attitude to staff is to treat them not so well especially if they aren't Thais, some have even told me im too kind and why am I paying so much

I don't need a "crew "to weed and do the other stuff it aint rocket science is it.

You did see the guy who was paying 24k didn't you? they still had to go.

From what Ive seen sometimes its a case of they want to do it "their" way its usually a lazy/shoddy way and any other way is snubbed, ( witness many Thai builders work) example pull out weeds right down to the roots, their way just pull the top off leaving the roots, its explained to them by my Wife I say nothing except tell her the way it needs to be done, there is never any shouting in fact Ive learnt to keep a totally blank look when dealing with them giving nothing away.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

For Thai's it's quite an easy fix, if you can get your mind around it. First, pay them exactly 8,900 baht each. The theory is 8,900 is a LUCKY number even is not. it is also less than the minimum wage and will keep their jaws moving complaining to each other about it. This has the same positive work motivation effect on thais as whistling while you work has on a westerner. Secondly, you have to be out of touch with Thai culture not to be sensitive to their national fixation of avoiding black skin. Give them umbrellas and UV 80 sunscreen. Finally, if you really really really want them to actually do the work that you are paying them to do... Hire their friend to round out your two staff limit and make said work FUN. The latter trumps pay and working conditions as thais will stay in a low wage job forever as long as they have friends there and fun.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere

[mercman24]

i think it is the mindset of thais, ok we all get bored but stick at it, thais just walk off the job.i know 2 female friends both 34, chalk and cheese or "A" and "B" -- "A" had her own shop and worked hard for little money, so she jacked in shop, and started to train in a posh hotel, a couple of days, she was bored about to do the "walk" i cajoled her into staying, i said once you have been trained then you can walk into any 4/5 star hotel and get a job.yeah a bit mercenerey, but a lot of the trainees did walk off the job.so now she can mix cocktail do silver service etc. now "B" pretty girl, can speak good english and read it, lives on her phone/facebook all day, gets up at dinnertime. i rang her yesterday, at about 3pm "going back to bed i tired too hot" no interest in working her one aim in life is to snare a "farang" i have sat with her to show her jobs on craiglist etc.she could walk into, but its thanks but no thanks. so no different from the uk realy, except the wasters in the uk get paid for doing jack shit.but if they are happy, who am i to say.

[bamukloy]

i think it is the mindset of thais, ok we all get bored but stick at it, thais just walk off the job.i know 2 female friends both 34, chalk and cheese or "A" and "B" -- "A" had her own shop and worked hard for little money, so she jacked in shop, and started to train in a posh hotel, a couple of days, she was bored about to do the "walk" i cajoled her into staying, i said once you have been trained then you can walk into any 4/5 star hotel and get a job.yeah a bit mercenerey, but a lot of the trainees did walk off the job.so now she can mix cocktail do silver service etc. now "B" pretty girl, can speak good english and read it, lives on her phone/facebook all day, gets up at dinnertime. i rang her yesterday, at about 3pm "going back to bed i tired too hot" no interest in working her one aim in life is to snare a "farang" i have sat with her to show her jobs on craiglist etc.she could walk into, but its thanks but no thanks. so no different from the uk realy, except the wasters in the uk get paid for doing jack shit.but if they are happy, who am i to say.

Your B type is a bigger problem than lazy. Cos they have farang contacts that are retired or well set up and dont have to do much, they think they are entitled to do nothing and rely on the farang.

What they dont consider is that we had to toil for xx years with long hours and real work.that is working without stopping the whole day not sleeping or playing with phones.

But while us farangs keep coming here and doing what we do it will all be same same.

I guess when it gets as expensive here as in the west a lot of farang will go.

wont be able to rely on the white buffalo then!

[kannot]

For Thai's it's quite an easy fix, if you can get your mind around it. First, pay them exactly 8,900 baht each. The theory is 8,900 is a LUCKY number even is not. it is also less than the minimum wage and will keep their jaws moving complaining to each other about it. This has the same positive work motivation effect on thais as whistling while you work has on a westerner. Secondly, you have to be out of touch with Thai culture not to be sensitive to their national fixation of avoiding black skin. Give them umbrellas and UV 80 sunscreen. Finally, if you really really really want them to actually do the work that you are paying them to do... Hire their friend to round out your two staff limit and make said work FUN. The latter trumps pay and working conditions as thais will stay in a low wage job forever as long as they have friends there and fun.

I dont think Ive ever seen them have any friends, we do however give them clothes as well including hats that cover their entire heads down to their shoulder, also footwear is provided free.

Wife suggested one person and then wait and see if they bring another later, I wouldnt really want 3 people. in all honesty one person could do the job, we get the woman to do some cleaning but it only take an hour a day shes really there to "provide" for the man

[bander]

My impression of Thais is: they are a bunch of lazy people who just want to watch Thai soap operas, playing on smart phones, sleep or drink. Only my opinion after living here 15 years.

Edited May 27, 2015 by bander

[Mr Somtam]

My impression of Thais is: they are a bunch of lazy people who just want to watch Thai soap operas, playing on smart phones, sleep or drink. Only my opinion after living here 15 years.

50% work hard and share their money with the 50% watching lakorn in the hammock.

Too greng-jay to just say "get a job you lazy f#ck!"

[kannot]

My impression of Thais is: they are a bunch of lazy people who just want to watch Thai soap operas, playing on smart phones, sleep or drink. Only my opinion after living here 15 years.

50% work hard and share their money with the 50% watching lakorn in the hammock.

Too greng-jay to just say "get a job you lazy f#ck!"

It does appear to be a fantastic system for the lazy ones in the families, I wonder if itll change now Thais are having smaller families?

I think whats needed is a crash in job availability as its very easy for many of the low paid to go straight into another job, job security seems to be not important at all although older staff in office jobs say over 30 try and hang onto jobs as the Thais seem to not like to employ people as they get older.