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Open-sky policy must continue, say airlines


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Open-sky policy must continue, say airlines
SUCHAT SRITAMA
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- Warn move will tarnish image of country; call for long-term plans

AIRLINES ARE alarmed by the Transport Ministry's move to consider limiting incoming flights by ending the country's long-standing "open sky" policy, warning the move could badly damage Thailand's image.

The airlines also urged the government to draft a long-term plan to solve airspace problems rather than restricting the number of international flights as the open-sky policy had been in force for more than 10 years.

Santisuk Klongchaiya, director of commercial at Thai AirAsia, said numerous airlines operated in and out of Thailand under an open sky agreement - the same as many other countries.

However, he said the open-sky policy may not allow every airline to operate as required due to limitations in airport capacities.

"Despite having an open-sky policy, if an airport has no more space for new airline to get air slots, that means traffic is full and already limited," said Santisuk.

He added that the increase in flights at Suvarnabhumi Airport and Don Mueang Airport was not linked to the current aviation-safety issues facing the sector and the adoption of the open-sky policy.

Transport Minister ACM Prajin Juntong said on Friday that the ministry required the sound management of flight frequencies at airports and air traffic control.

He said Thailand's major airports were too congested and that was compromising safety.

The open-sky policy began in 2001 and was aimed at increasing the number of flights into the country and by extension the number of tourists, and specify the capacity of each airport.

A proposal to move away from that policy is expected to be submitted to the Cabinet for approval by September.

Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Phuket International Airport, the country's second-busiest airport, was designed to handle 20 flights per hour but is servicing 23.

Thailand has also used the open-sky policy to promote the country as an aviation hub for the region. Since 2001, the number of domestic and international flights into the country has risen rapidly.

Suvarnabhumi, Bangkok's main international airport and the country's largest, has exceeded its capacity of 45 million passengers per year.

Piya Yodmani, chief executive officer of Nok Scoot, said airlines were confused by the plan to limit the number of international flights into the country.

Instead of scrapping the open-sky policy, he said "the government should prepare long-term measures to solve this problem".

Piya warned that ending the policy would result in Thailand's image being severely tarnished.

Charamporn Jotikasthira, president of Thai Airways International, refused to comment.

In March, the International Civil Aviation Organisation warned the Civil Aviation Department about its safety standards, which led Japan, South Korea, China and Singapore to restrict some routes for Thai carriers.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Open-sky-policy-must-continue-say-airlines-30260797.html

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-- The Nation 2015-05-24

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so we have the airlines claiming Thailands image will be tarnished - seems the best they can come up with

and the Transport authority is saying safety is already compromised with over capacity

Looks to me like the usual balance of income versus safety has been winning the last 10 years and Thailand are now being told to sort it out and get it under control.

Some Thais seem to think running an airline is like running a mini bus service or a ferry service were as we all know safety is paramount......not

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Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Wow!When an airport is handling 25% more flights than its capacity, I thinlk that is reason to be seriously concerned.

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Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Wow!When an airport is handling 25% more flights than its capacity, I thinlk that is reason to be seriously concerned.

I will be careful with this given how things can go here.

Years ago i was asked to help prepare air traffic controllers at a domestic, now international, airport for an upcoming ICAO English test and they were worried about the fact the examiners would be foreigners and would expect a proper standard.

Out of a class of 20 + only 4 were licensed by the Thai DCA because the rest didn't have the required English language standard but were kept on so they could pass next time around and the DCA did nothing about it. I'm not saying the ' failures ' spoke bad English but they were not up to the laid down standard which just was not enforced.

Other than private airports all ATC personnel are employed by one company which holds the govt's contract.

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I'm not saying the ' failures ' spoke bad English

I live 1Km from Phuket Airport and often eavesdrop on the tower and runway ATC radio channels.

Some ATCS speak good English and some ...er ... do not.

Best not say anymore on that subject.

But thinking again about the overcapacity comments, is there not some international directive that legally-limits the airport from allowing such overcapacity on flights? If the airport is considered to be at full capacity with 600 flights per day, is there not a legal restriction at say 105% capacity?

If not, then it seems to me that an airport can allow as many flights per day over that normal capacity as it sees fit.

There must be some international standard on this? Or perhaps Thailand isn't party to such a standard?

I'd appreciate comment from professionals in the airport/aircraft sector about how overcapacity of flights is controlled at an airport.

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800 "flights". Is that 800 take offs and landings individually, or 1600? LAX in Los Angeles handles 1600 take offs and landings every day making it either the same or twice as busy.

Atlanta, the world's busiest airport handles 2500 take offs and landings.

What's the problem with 800/1600?

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Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Wow!When an airport is handling 25% more flights than its capacity, I thinlk that is reason to be seriously concerned.

I hope you don't panic when I point out that the figure is more than 33%.

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Upgrade the Chiang Mai airport and direct more flights there. Build a new international airport outside of Pattaya (east of highway 7) or at least upgrade U-Tapao and direct more flights there. A new airport near Pattaya (perhaps between Pattaya and Laem Chabang) would probably be the preferred option as it would allow "certain" people to purchase suitable land ahead of time and then resell it for a huge profit. There'd probably be a number of airlines that could make direct flights from (wherever) to Pattaya in the same manner as they do for Phuket. Close to the tollway and regional highways leading to the eastern and north-eastern provinces.

Another option would be to build/expand an airport in Khon Kaen that would service the Isaan region. Problem there would be getting the "direct to" flights that would reduce the air traffic going into Bangkok.

Another scary thought is that traffic is not only exceeding current capacity, but the "planned" expansion, when eventually completed, would only handle the traffic they are currently getting, which means that it would possibly be over-capacity by the time it was finally opened.

In the area around Dubai there are 3 international airports within close proximity. Dubai International Airport (DIA), Dubai World Center (DWC) airport, an almost brand new, but very underused airport about 60 kms (35 miles) away from DIA and on the other side is the Sharjah International Airport (SHJ), about 23 kms (14 miles) from DIA. 3 major international airports within 85 kms (50 miles) of each other.

(By way of comparison, Suvarnabhumi apparently handled around 46 million passengers in 2014, while Dubai International alone handled around 70 million. As for actual aircraft, Suvarnabhumi handled approx 290,000 aircraft movements while Dubai International handled 357,000, despite the slow down in traffic due to a lengthy (8 month) runway resurfacing done that resulted in a lot of traffic being re-routed to the Dubai World Center airport.

Of course TOT and others expect tourist arrivals to continue increasing in the coming years which means obviously heavier traffic at airports which are already stressed and may not be capable of expanding enough (or fast enough) to handle it. Mega projects like airports need to be planned for expectations 30-40 years in advance, not what is currently needed with (perhaps) a 5 year forecast. Sheesh, the first expansion of Suvarnabhumi was expected to take 5 years even though they pretty knew it was needed from the moment they first opened and already had the plans for it.

(IIRC Suvarnabhumi was over capacity within the first year of operations. Planning for the airport had actually started in the 1960s and the land purchased in the early 70s ! They started the land reclamation in 1997 and construction in early 2002 with the doors opening in late 2006.)

The problem is that it will take years of considerations, studies and proposals before anything is approved and budgeted for, then many more years before anything is actually done so they'd better come up with some alternatives to deal with things until then.

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Thailand to Limit Incoming Flights Due to Congestion

14324383021432438436l.jpg

By Khaosod Eng.

BANGKOK (DPA) — Thailand's Transport Ministry is reportedly planning to limit incoming flights, ending its open skies policy.

There are more flights than the airports and other facilities can handle and the situation could compromise aviation safety, according to Transport Minister Prajin Jantong, Thai Rath newspaper reported.

Suvarnabhumi Airport, Bangkok's chief international airport and the country's largest, is currently handling more than 800 flights daily but it was designed to serve 600 per day.

Read More: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1432438302

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800 "flights". Is that 800 take offs and landings individually, or 1600? LAX in Los Angeles handles 1600 take offs and landings every day making it either the same or twice as busy.

Atlanta, the world's busiest airport handles 2500 take offs and landings.

What's the problem with 800/1600?

No problem at all as long as the takeoffs are equal to or greater than the landings.

In all seriousness it is important to know where the overcapacity is.

Is the overcapacity in

runway use..a landing or takeoff requires 2 minutes of time minimum between aircraft (this means at present only 12 hours for the dual runway Suvanapoon.

Control personell...Possibly not enough ATC people with one person handling multiple functions.

Radio and radar facilities

Ground handling and terminal.

Many other variables.

I know for a fact that there are very few if any takeoffs and landings at Suvanapoon between midnight and 6 or 7 am. If that time was used many more aircraft could be handled.

Main weakness I think is an unwillingness for people to increase efficiency (would cut down on time to shop in King Power) and a severe lack of properly trained people including all personel but especially poorly trained ATC lacking English which is the international language for aviation ATC.

Edited by harrry
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Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Wow!When an airport is handling 25% more flights than its capacity, I thinlk that is reason to be seriously concerned.

I thought it was 30%

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I hope you don't panic when I point out that the figure is more than 33%.

Yes, I am panicking because I can't understand how I passed my MSc exam (Satellite Engineering with Higher Maths) all those years ago.

Where's my sliderule?

Edited by simon43
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I hope you don't panic when I point out that the figure is more than 33%.

Yes, I am panicking because I can't understand how I passed my MSc exam (Satellite Engineering with Higher Maths) all those years ago.

Where's my sliderule?

don't know but will a set of napier rods help?

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This is Thainess

Lets get back at those b...ds that targeted our flights to Japan and Korea.....

Oh, we will go out and say we will reconsider the open sky agreement....

like kindergarten children....

if it was me i would slap them....

wai2.gif

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Currently, more than 800 flights operate at Suvarnabhumi Airport per day, higher than its 600-flight capacity.

Wow!When an airport is handling 25% more flights than its capacity, I thinlk that is reason to be seriously concerned.

I will be careful with this given how things can go here.

Years ago i was asked to help prepare air traffic controllers at a domestic, now international, airport for an upcoming ICAO English test and they were worried about the fact the examiners would be foreigners and would expect a proper standard.

Out of a class of 20 + only 4 were licensed by the Thai DCA because the rest didn't have the required English language standard but were kept on so they could pass next time around and the DCA did nothing about it. I'm not saying the ' failures ' spoke bad English but they were not up to the laid down standard which just was not enforced.

Other than private airports all ATC personnel are employed by one company which holds the govt's contract.

I hold a private pilots licence and have to agree about controllers english language ability or lack of it.

I have encoutered some atcos in Thailand who's pronunciation leaves a lot to be desired.

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Surely the capacity issue is to do with infrastructure rather than air space. The likelihood of a bus to and from the plane was very high but has lessened in recent times. Often the " F " gates end of the terminal are not all busy during the evening and arrivals/departures are very limited between midnight and 6.00am.

Ground issues... baggage, immigration, check in, transport services...all stretched during peaks

Maybe winding back on open skies might have something to do with the national carrier being under significant pressure.

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Surely the capacity issue is to do with infrastructure rather than air space. The likelihood of a bus to and from the plane was very high but has lessened in recent times. Often the " F " gates end of the terminal are not all busy during the evening and arrivals/departures are very limited between midnight and 6.00am.

Ground issues... baggage, immigration, check in, transport services...all stretched during peaks

Maybe winding back on open skies might have something to do with the national carrier being under significant pressure.

I thought about the same. Who will benefit and I only can thin of THAI which is linked to the Thai Air Force.

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Surely the capacity issue is to do with infrastructure rather than air space. The likelihood of a bus to and from the plane was very high but has lessened in recent times. Often the " F " gates end of the terminal are not all busy during the evening and arrivals/departures are very limited between midnight and 6.00am.

Ground issues... baggage, immigration, check in, transport services...all stretched during peaks

Maybe winding back on open skies might have something to do with the national carrier being under significant pressure.

Gates are not always a case of them not being available so a bus is used. Many airlines prefer to use the bus as it is considerably cheaper than ramp rent.

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Are "open skies" a part of a multi party agreement? If so it is fair to assume that there may be action to restrict Thai flights elsewhere if this goes ahead or has that already happened and Thailand is just hitting back at the bans that are to possibly be imposed.

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Ok problem solved Every time I fly into Swampy there are at least 20 Thai airlines jets parked at gates Taking up space with another 20 waiting to take those gates. Now according to what I seen they don't need to be at those gates find a place to put them so real airlines can use gates that need to use them. You need to better manage your airport simple fact. And don't get me started on your security here which is the worst I ever seen.

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I'm not saying the ' failures ' spoke bad English

I live 1Km from Phuket Airport and often eavesdrop on the tower and runway ATC radio channels.

Some ATCS speak good English and some ...er ... do not.

Best not say anymore on that subject.

But thinking again about the overcapacity comments, is there not some international directive that legally-limits the airport from allowing such overcapacity on flights? If the airport is considered to be at full capacity with 600 flights per day, is there not a legal restriction at say 105% capacity?

If not, then it seems to me that an airport can allow as many flights per day over that normal capacity as it sees fit.

There must be some international standard on this? Or perhaps Thailand isn't party to such a standard?

I'd appreciate comment from professionals in the airport/aircraft sector about how overcapacity of flights is controlled at an airport.

As you are probably already aware Simon, Thailand does not recognised any international standards....they have their own which is deemed more important albeit, much much lower.

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Thailand to Limit Incoming Flights Due to Congestion

14324383021432438436l.jpg

By Khaosod Eng.

BANGKOK (DPA) — Thailand's Transport Ministry is reportedly planning to limit incoming flights, ending its open skies policy.

There are more flights than the airports and other facilities can handle and the situation could compromise aviation safety, according to Transport Minister Prajin Jantong, Thai Rath newspaper reported.

Suvarnabhumi Airport, Bangkok's chief international airport and the country's largest, is currently handling more than 800 flights daily but it was designed to serve 600 per day.

Read More: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1432438302

currently handling more than 800 flights daily but it was designed to serve 600 per day.

Can somebody please string up the guy who let those 200 extra flights Daily go on without stopping it.......

oh, no that is Accountability!

In Thailand we only do that to our migrant workers.......

TIT

wai2.gif

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