Dual-citizen terrorists will be stripped of their Australian passport under a govt plan

[webfact]

Citizenship changes to deal with terrorism

CANBERRA: -- THE federal government will legislate to strip dual citizens involved in terrorism of their Australian citizenship.

PRIME Minister Tony Abbott says the legislation will be introduced to parliament within weeks.

Mr Abbott told reporters in Canberra that any decision to strip a dual national of Australian citizenship will be subject to judicial review.

Full story: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/citizenship-changes-to-deal-with-terrorism/story-fni0xqi4-1227369748773

-- Herald Sun 2015-05-26

[TVGerry]

Yes! Every country should do this. These people aren't real citizens. They crap on their country of citizenship while killing their citizens all the while using the same laws they spit on to protect themselves.

[Thaddeus]

A wake up call.

Good.

[Credo]

Strip them of citizenship and then put them in jail.

I don't know that I want them in another country when they have intimate knowledge of a western country.

[Seastallion]

Sounds like common sense to me. Rush that bit of legislation through real quick.

[Thaddeus]

Strip them of citizenship and then put them in jail.

I don't know that I want them in another country when they have intimate knowledge of a western country.

An exchange program with someone on a boat would do for me.

[Steely Dan]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

[simple1]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

The voice of the far right speaks again; been reading "Dictatorship for Dummies"?

Edited May 26, 2015 by simple1

[NeverSure]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

The voice of the far right speaks again; been reading "Dictatorship for Dummies"?

LOL. Let's not be so uptight that we don't recognize a little sardonic expressiveness.

[BKKBobby]

Makes common sense to strip the second citizenship from terrorists. Should always follow a conviction if some one fight for ISIS or whatever. Stripping citizens of dual citizenship of the passport got because of place of birth (where they are born) I dont agree with though.

If the terrorist is Australian by birth and his birthplace is there then my opinion is to strip him of his foreign nationality.

And he should be prosecuted and sentencted for the crimes he might have commited during his time as terrorist.

Edited May 26, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Steely Dan]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

The voice of the far right speaks again; been reading "Dictatorship for Dummies"?

A dummy should realize that appeasement of a fascist ideology in tandem with allowing mass immigration of its followers will eventually lead to a religious dictatorship. Those who constantly deflect and prevaricate in the face of this threat are actually enabling it.

Good for Tony Abbott, if you are getting flak its a sign of being directly above the target.

http://www.examiner.com/article/aussie-hard-line-on-islamic-jihadists-possible-implemetation-of-sharia-law

Note the next step would be revoking the citizenship of jihaddists with only Australian citizenship. What a bold and necessary step, if no other Country is willing to accept such trash just tow them out to sea in a boat pointed at PNG. Sadly the UK could never entertain such legislation unless freed from the shackles of the E.U and its terrorist defending so called human rights court.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Steely Dan

[simple1]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

The voice of the far right speaks again; been reading "Dictatorship for Dummies"?

LOL. Let's not be so uptight that we don't recognize a little sardonic expressiveness.

I wish I could accept that he's being sardonic, I do not believe that's the case.

[ezzra]

It is well known fact that it's good to be a criminal in Australia as the government will avail the

wrong doers with state sponsored and funded, non limit free legal advise, not to mention

the many organizations that somehow elect them selves as the protectors of the under dog

and will also master funds and legal aids to such people, to top it all up, are the Aussie

judges, a bunch of softies and merciful lot that will rather err on the side of caution and

give a ridicules penalties and in most case repeat offenders are being sent home on a ' good

behavior ' promise. so good luck to Australia enforcing the stripping and jailing ISIS combatants.....

[simple1]

It's a shame the same cant be done for 'citizens' not holding dual nationality, though these should be shot for treason instead. I would also cancel the passports of parents who take legal action against the state somehow blaming it for not stopping their children joining ISIS, the Dutch government is currently being sued due to such circumstances.

The voice of the far right speaks again; been reading "Dictatorship for Dummies"?

A dummy should realize that appeasement of a fascist ideology in tandem with allowing mass immigration of its followers will eventually lead to a religious dictatorship. Those who constantly deflect and prevaricate in the face of this threat are actually enabling it.

Good for Tony Abbott, if you are getting flak its a sign of being directly above the target.

http://www.examiner.com/article/aussie-hard-line-on-islamic-jihadists-possible-implemetation-of-sharia-law

Note the next step would be revoking the citizenship of jihaddists with only Australian citizenship. What a bold and necessary step, if no other Country is willing to accept such trash just tow them out to sea in a boat pointed at PNG. Sadly the UK could never entertain such legislation unless freed from the shackles of the E.U and its terrorist defending so called human rights court.

Think you will find revoking Australian citizenship and thereby making a person stateless will not happen. More likely to follow the UK process with suspension of citizenship.

[simple1]

It is well known fact that it's good to be a criminal in Australia as the government will avail the wrong doers with state sponsored and funded, non limit free legal advise, not to mention the many organizations that somehow elect them selves as the protectors of the under dog and will also master funds and legal aids to such people, to top it all up, are the Aussie

judges, a bunch of softies and merciful lot that will rather err on the side of caution and give a ridicules penalties and in most case repeat offenders are being sent home on a ' good behavior ' promise. so good luck to Australia enforcing the stripping and jailing ISIS combatants.....

Revoking the Oz citizenship of dual nationals will be a Ministerial decision, not the remit of the Courts

[Steely Dan]

And there's more, two more candidates for the order of the boot, Australia needs them like a dose of the clap.

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/sydney-mother-who-abandoned-her-two-children-to-join-the-death-cult-in-syria/story-fni0cx12-1227368923105

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

Edited May 26, 2015 by samran

[Manbing]

Strip them of citizenship and then put them in jail.

I don't know that I want them in another country when they have intimate knowledge of a western country.

An exchange program with someone on a boat would do for me.

Except of course, there are terrorists trying to enter countries unseen using human trafficking facilities.

[Manbing]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

I cannot stand Tony Abbot and consider 99% of his utterances to be retarded monkey speak.

However- on this occasion he makes sense. Those naturalised citizens do make an oath of allegiance, if they break it, their should be consequences.

It should also be noted that radical fundamentalists are often imported into the country. So lets find a way to export terrorists, potential terrorists and their families back to the promised land.

And yes there is a 2 tier citizenship in operation here. It wouldn't be any problem for any law abiding immigrants to the country.

[markt7081]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

Sorry, but thats a load of tosh. Im a dual Brit/Aussie & I certainly dont feel like 2nd tier Australian. I am in fact please that the government is finally enacting something which will protect all Australian citizens, both dual & single alike.

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

I cannot stand Tony Abbot and consider 99% of his utterances to be retarded monkey speak.

However- on this occasion he makes sense. Those naturalised citizens do make an oath of allegiance, if they break it, their should be consequences.

It should also be noted that radical fundamentalists are often imported into the country. So lets find a way to export terrorists, potential terrorists and their families back to the promised land.

And yes there is a 2 tier citizenship in operation here. It wouldn't be any problem for any law abiding immigrants to the country.

I'm not talking about naturalised citizens.

I'm talking about natural born citizens - yes, like me.

My citizenship is my birthright, why would I let it be taken away on a whim by some secretive process and no judicial overview?

Actually, scap that. It is mine for life. It should never be taken away unless I voluntarily renounce it...

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

Sorry, but thats a load of tosh. Im a dual Brit/Aussie & I certainly dont feel like 2nd tier Australian. I am in fact please that the government is finally enacting something which will protect all Australian citizens, both dual & single alike.

I'm glad you don't feel it.

You and I are never going to be terrorists. That isn't the point.

What has happened is it has opened up a channel for future governments to discriminate, and has created a precedence which once made will be hard to recover.

Also a bit strange that you think no judicial oversight to protect your rights as a citizen is 'okay'.

And if you think this is going to protect us, rather than being populist fodder for an unpopular government, then I have a bridge over Sydney harbour to sell you...cheap, I promise.

Edited May 26, 2015 by samran

[TPI]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

I'm, where do you get the idea that I don't like the country or respect the law?

Do you make this sh!t up as you go along or were you born with a low digit IQ?

[shirtless]

Dual citizenship should be abolished , they are fence sitters no commitment to their host country, you come to Australia and become Australian thats really not to much to ask for contribute and enjoy the country.

[Steely Dan]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

It's a liberal reflex, well meaning no doubt, but a reflex that has allowed metaphorical Trojan horses to be wheeled through the city gates of Western nations. The irony is that talk of two tier citizenship becomes a reality wherever Islam becomes established, everyone else assumes Dhimmi status, I'm not sure you hear many protesting voices about this fact in the Muslim world.

[Berkshire]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

I think his point is that dual-citizens may be unjustly targeted, perhaps without due process, while others are not. From my read of the law, "citizenship stripped even without facing court or being convicted of a crime"...."...laws will apply to people who have committed an act of terrorism, prepared for such an act, raised funds or supported terrorism or even indoctrinated young people into extremism"....man, there is a whole lot of ways that this law can be abused.

Speaking as an American (i.e., no dog in this fight), let's say an Aussie terrorist commits a particularly heinous terrorist act--we're talking hundreds dead--but the guy is not a dual-citizen, he will not lose his citizenship. But a dual-citizen who just happens to be talking to a young person about wars and religion and sacrifice...whatever, he can be "suspected" of trying to indoctrinate a young person and be stripped of his citizenship even without facing court. Fair?

Well you Aussie dudes can decide.

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

I think his point is that dual-citizens may be unjustly targeted, perhaps without due process, while others are not. From my read of the law, "citizenship stripped even without facing court or being convicted of a crime"...."...laws will apply to people who have committed an act of terrorism, prepared for such an act, raised funds or supported terrorism or even indoctrinated young people into extremism"....man, there is a whole lot of ways that this law can be abused.

Speaking as an American (i.e., no dog in this fight), let's say an Aussie terrorist commits a particularly heinous terrorist act--we're talking hundreds dead--but the guy is not a dual-citizen, he will not lose his citizenship. But a dual-citizen who just happens to be talking to a young person about wars and religion and sacrifice...whatever, he can be "suspected" of trying to indoctrinate a young person and be stripped of his citizenship even without facing court. Fair?

Well you Aussie dudes can decide.

Good post.

Due process is lost on this mob.

They profess to be conservatives. The reality is they are wanna be facists who have no trouble steamrolling the fundamentals of rule of law. In fact as we can see here, they cheer it.

A real conservative will be chocking on their weeties with a fragrant disregard for the basic principals of law, checks and balances

[samran]

The new law is crap.

It creates a second tier level of Australian citizenship.

One for those born with Australian citizenship but nothing else.

Thos born with Australian citizenship, who happen to be born with another citizenship or who go out and get another one.

The latter group, which certainly includes me and many of TV erstwhile memberships kids (I'm sure), plus at least 4 million other australians estimated to hold another nationality, are now subject to ministerial whim based on secretive intelligence advisors. No judicial oversight to be seen.

The same advisors who brought us WMD in Iraq.

So we've created a second class tier of citizenship.

Populism at its worst. What is wrong with locking up proven terrorists for life?

What's the problem Mr Samran? If you aren't in Syria or with ISIL you don't have a problem! In the US you can't become President unless you are a natural born citizen, in Oz you can (if naturalised), there are good arguments for both sides!

If you have dual citizenship, good on you! I'm sure you take every advantage of your situation? As a citizen you are required to obey the laws of the land, if you knowingly break the law then, "if you do the crime do the time".

Loosing your Ozy citizenship will be no hardship as you don't like the country anyway and have no respect for the laws.....where's the problem?

It's a liberal reflex, well meaning no doubt, but a reflex that has allowed metaphorical Trojan horses to be wheeled through the city gates of Western nations. The irony is that talk of two tier citizenship becomes a reality wherever Islam becomes established, everyone else assumes Dhimmi status, I'm not sure you hear many protesting voices about this fact in the Muslim world.

We've got misguided conservatives wheeling out the two tier citizenship status. Didn't even need to wait for the jihadists did we? Did it all by yourselves.

Not so different from the zealots then are you?

Edited May 26, 2015 by samran

[Basil B]

Dual citizenship should be scrapped, Everyone has a primary citizenship by birthright, that is the citizenship of the country they have most entailment too and should never be removed, any other citizenship should be a secondary citizenship with lesser rights including it cancellation.