Dual-citizen terrorists will be stripped of their Australian passport under a govt plan

[JockPieandBeans]

Always the same one side story.

1.Why those youngsters are so eager to go and risk everything ??? what kind of promises IS is giving them that Aussie government can not ...??

This goes a lot deeper than merely what can IS offer someone over a Government.

This clown was found guilty yesterday. This is what he allegedly had to say.

An examination of his phone revealed recorded conversations with two friends who had allegedly gone to Syria earlier last year, the court heard.

'Martyrdom'

In them, Ashiq talked to Ali Kalantar and Mohammed Ismail about his journey through Europe.

Ashiq asked his friends for help getting into Syria, saying the second he got the chance he would do "Ishtishadi [martyrdom] against any ... all these people', the jury heard.

Zakariya Ashiq was so desperate to reach Syria, he claimed he would risk his life swimming the English Channel to leave the land he hated. His own words reflect the story of others that have been played out in different cities

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-32883230

I believe that there is a lot of mileage in this. It is obvious to anyone who wishes to look.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Aus, at this time, does not have the problems that the UK has. Stamp on it now before you get to the point of no return.

Any Australians that has Tony Abbott on speed dial, please phone him on my behalf and ask him to pass these measures to David Cameron, to be implemented as soon as possible.

[Thorgal]

It is well known fact that it's good to be a criminal in Australia as the government will avail the wrong doers with state sponsored and funded, non limit free legal advise, not to mention the many organizations that somehow elect them selves as the protectors of the under dog and will also master funds and legal aids to such people, to top it all up, are the Aussie

judges, a bunch of softies and merciful lot that will rather err on the side of caution and give a ridicules penalties and in most case repeat offenders are being sent home on a ' good behavior ' promise. so good luck to Australia enforcing the stripping and jailing ISIS combatants.....

Revoking the Oz citizenship of dual nationals will be a Ministerial decision, not the remit of the Courts

Quote from OP link - Immigration Minister of Australia:

"To give to the minister - without any court adjudication - the power to take away dual citizenship is simply not on," he told AAP."

[simple1]

It is well known fact that it's good to be a criminal in Australia as the government will avail the wrong doers with state sponsored and funded, non limit free legal advise, not to mention the many organizations that somehow elect them selves as the protectors of the under dog and will also master funds and legal aids to such people, to top it all up, are the Aussie

judges, a bunch of softies and merciful lot that will rather err on the side of caution and give a ridicules penalties and in most case repeat offenders are being sent home on a ' good behavior ' promise. so good luck to Australia enforcing the stripping and jailing ISIS combatants.....

Revoking the Oz citizenship of dual nationals will be a Ministerial decision, not the remit of the Courts

Quote from OP link - Immigration Minister of Australia:

"To give to the minister - without any court adjudication - the power to take away dual citizenship is simply not on," he told AAP."

From media reports the Foreign and Communications Ministers are not happy. The proposed legislation, as it stands, is getting push back by some within Cabinet; have to wait to see the final Cabinet approved proposed legislation. Don't believe Abbott would get away with a 'captains decision' in this matter.

Edited May 27, 2015 by simple1

[F4UCorsair]

Amendment to my post above.

The 'Australian' terrorist whose family wants to return to Australia is Khaled Sharrouf, not Mohammed Elomar. Sharrouf just married his 14 year old daughter off to Elomar.

[Thorgal]

Quote from OP link :

"If a person had been charged in Australia, tried by a court and found guilty of a terrorist act there may be a case for that person to then face another court at the end of their sentence to decide whether it is appropriate for them to lose their dual citizenship, Mr O'Gorman said."

Australian High Court, Federal Courts and others have only jurisdiction for crimes committed on Australian territory. Australia has no overseas judicial authority except under UN regulations.

Dual souvereignty concept can only be applied in the country where the crimes have been committed in conjunction with a separate International court.

One defendant can not be charged 'more' based on their civil status for the same crime than others. This to explain the loophole between dual-citizenship and single-citizenship.

Moreover, you will only be able to provide remote, not detailed witnesses...

Edited May 27, 2015 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

It is well known fact that it's good to be a criminal in Australia as the government will avail the wrong doers with state sponsored and funded, non limit free legal advise, not to mention the many organizations that somehow elect them selves as the protectors of the under dog and will also master funds and legal aids to such people, to top it all up, are the Aussie

judges, a bunch of softies and merciful lot that will rather err on the side of caution and give a ridicules penalties and in most case repeat offenders are being sent home on a ' good behavior ' promise. so good luck to Australia enforcing the stripping and jailing ISIS combatants.....

Revoking the Oz citizenship of dual nationals will be a Ministerial decision, not the remit of the Courts

Quote from OP link - Immigration Minister of Australia:

"To give to the minister - without any court adjudication - the power to take away dual citizenship is simply not on," he told AAP."

From media reports the Foreign and Communications Ministers are not happy. The proposed legislation, as it stands, is getting push back by some within Cabinet; have to wait to see the final Cabinet approved proposed legislation. Don't believe Abbott would get away with a 'captains decision' in this matter.

Jihadi's can revoke, renounce or abort themselves - before re-entering Australia- their foreign citizenship...and they can never be under single-Australian citizenship made stateless afterwards under International Law...

Foreign citizenship is not legally linked to Australian citizenship.

You need to arrest them outside Australian territory under Syrian and/or Iraqi or any other foreign judicial Court system. In Australia they have more rights.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

It will be interesting to see how many people this law actually affects. Politicians sometimes spend a lot of time and effort to do something which has very little outcome.

I know some countries already make travel to Iraq illegal. It's clearly stated in the passport. I believe both the Philippines and the USA passports are invalid in Iraq.

Scott,

I do not know where you are getting your info from.

USA passports are not invalid in Iraq. There are a large number of Americans working in Iraq in a number of various vocations, all have to get MOI approval, just like everyone else. This is done through the Company that they work for.

Likewise with the Philippines. There are a large number of them too. I doubt any of them snuck into Iraq illegally and gained illegal employment.

Check your sources please.

It's correct for US passport holders without invitation letter from Iraqi Ministery of Interior.

Iraq Embassy does not currently offer travel visas to US citizens.

Phillipines changed in 2013...

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/asia-pacific/philippines-lifts-9-year-ban-on-sending-workers-to-iraq

Edited May 27, 2015 by Thorgal

[Scott]

I got my information from the Consul officer for the Consulate in Istanbul who validated my passport for travel to Iraq.

[JockPieandBeans]

I got my information from the Consul officer for the Consulate in Istanbul who validated my passport for travel to Iraq.

Scott

Did you fly into Kurdistan ? Different rules for the rest of Iraq.

Unless of course, you have something along the lines of a Diplomatic Passport.

[ABCer]

There is so much crap and so little common sense in most of the posts here IMHO.

* Tony Abbott is right, - at least this time!... No, he is not.

* Put the terrorists on a boat pointing to PNG!... Why? What do you have against PNG?

* We are creating a second grade citizens!... No, we do not. We are acknowledging their existence.

* We should apply harsher penalties for terrorism - like long term or life jail - as a deterrent.... No, we do not. And it is no deterrent!

* We will all lose our rights, our liberties and be living under the watchful eye of the Big Brother! ... Not at all.

* etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum!

It makes one think that the problem has no solution. Wrong! There are many solutions!

The solutions are right there, - obvious and on the surface.

The problem is - we do not like them! They are going against our beliefs! How typical of all people!

Yet we do not hesitate to condemn the inhuman terrorists for acting on their beliefs! How typical of all people!

Edited May 28, 2015 by ABCer

[Scott]

I got my information from the Consul officer for the Consulate in Istanbul who validated my passport for travel to Iraq.

Scott

Did you fly into Kurdistan ? Different rules for the rest of Iraq.

Unless of course, you have something along the lines of a Diplomatic Passport.

I did have more than one passport, but I was traveling only with a US, non-diplomatic passport. This was quite a few years ago and the Kurdish held area was under a no-fly zone. At that time it was clearly stated in the passport that it was not valid for travel to Iraq -- no mention about Cuba or anywhere else, by the way. Someone can check a new one because the restriction may be lifted. The Philippines passport still has the restriction.

We are going a little off-topic.

[simple1]

I got my information from the Consul officer for the Consulate in Istanbul who validated my passport for travel to Iraq.

Scott

Did you fly into Kurdistan ? Different rules for the rest of Iraq.

Unless of course, you have something along the lines of a Diplomatic Passport.

I did have more than one passport, but I was traveling only with a US, non-diplomatic passport. This was quite a few years ago and the Kurdish held area was under a no-fly zone. At that time it was clearly stated in the passport that it was not valid for travel to Iraq -- no mention about Cuba or anywhere else, by the way. Someone can check a new one because the restriction may be lifted. The Philippines passport still has the restriction.

We are going a little off-topic.

If you go to the State Department's website conditions for US passport holders for Iraq are explained in detail.

Entry, Exit & Visa Requirements

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/iraq.html

[Steely Dan]

Here is an Australian politician very clearly articulating why Multiculturalism has failed. The oath taken by new citizens reflects the values all Australian minorities accept, with of course the exception of those desiring Sharia law.

[otherstuff1957]

While my initial response to this announcement was to give a mental "YESSSS", after consideration I would have to say that this law sounds as though it would give too much power to some random bureaucrats. If this law is enacted, it really should have a built in appeal process and should be subject to judicial oversight.

Remember, not all dual-citizens are Muslims and not all terrorists are with ISIS. Technically, a Thai-Australian citizen could be branded a terrorist by participating in a Redshirt/Yellowshirt demonstration. Or a Russian-Australian could be convicted of terrorism for supporting Pussy Riot!

While I am not even remotely a fan of religious extremism of any sort, this law sounds like a poorly-thought-out knee jerk reaction.

[simple1]

Here is an Australian politician very clearly articulating why Multiculturalism has failed. The oath taken by new citizens reflects the values all Australian minorities accept, with of course the exception of those desiring Sharia law.

he's a known anti Muslim & in cohorts with the two moronic federal politicians, Jacquie Lambie & Cory Bernadi, who have no realistic solutions and just contribute to fracturing Oz society with hate and discord.

Edited May 29, 2015 by simple1

[simple1]

Here is an Australian politician very clearly articulating why Multiculturalism has failed. The oath taken by new citizens reflects the values all Australian minorities accept, with of course the exception of those desiring Sharia law.

he's a known anti Muslim & in cohorts with the two moronic federal politicians, Jacquie Lambie & Cory Bernadi, who have no realistic solutions and just contribute to fracturing Oz society with hate and discord.

Eeeeeeeeeeer, who has the hate and discord...?......You think NOT a certain religion....?

Some Muslims yes, not all. Vilification of the Muslim population in general achieves nothing but damage to the social fabric. Right wing extremism is unfortunately on the rise in Oz, good examples are Reclaim Australia and Australian Defence League who members often indulge in ugly cowardly actions and get oxygen from the politicians referred to above.

The Oz government will get on top of the Islamic extremism issue, the politicians I mentioned only unnecessarily complicate matters.

[Steely Dan]

Eeeeeeeeeeer, who has the hate and discord...?......You think NOT a certain religion....?

Some Muslims yes, not all. Vilification of the Muslim population in general achieves nothing but damage to the social fabric. Right wing extremism is unfortunately on the rise in Oz, good examples are Reclaim Australia and Australian Defence League who members often indulge in ugly cowardly actions and get oxygen from the politicians referred to above.

The Oz government will get on top of the Islamic extremism issue, the politicians I mentioned only unnecessarily complicate matters.

You tell me/us WHY extremism might have come to the fore in Aus or any country..?.....Aussy hats with corks, beer a problem............Or is it folk taken in for a better life that cannot accept the Aussy COUNTRY routes and life...?

I guess the Muslim populations of all Western nations would act like choirboys were it not for the assorted defense leagues which I guess spontaneously arose out of thin air throughout the west with the sole aim of sewing discord. Or could it possibly be due to an upsurge in jihadist ideology, which has led to a familiar pattern of behavior that has scourged the Earth twice before? Strangely enough if you look at Muslim majority nations without a defense league in sight you get the same Sharia sanctioned barbarity leading to a gradual ethnic cleansing of every minority, including even Muslim minority sects.

Sorry the victimization card along with that of hiding Islamic scripture from scrutiny behind the coat tails of the entire Muslim population is wearing a little thin.

[simple1]

he's a known anti Muslim & in cohorts with the two moronic federal politicians, Jacquie Lambie & Cory Bernadi, who have no realistic solutions and just contribute to fracturing Oz society with hate and discord.

Eeeeeeeeeeer, who has the hate and discord...?......You think NOT a certain religion....?

Some Muslims yes, not all. Vilification of the Muslim population in general achieves nothing but damage to the social fabric. Right wing extremism is unfortunately on the rise in Oz, good examples are Reclaim Australia and Australian Defence League who members often indulge in ugly cowardly actions and get oxygen from the politicians referred to above.

The Oz government will get on top of the Islamic extremism issue, the politicians I mentioned only unnecessarily complicate matters.

You tell me/us WHY extremism might have come to the fore in Aus or any country..?.....Aussy hats with corks, beer a problem............Or is it folk taken in for a better life that cannot accept the Aussy COUNTRY routes and life...?

Post removed to enable response.

I already agreed some from the Muslim community cause problems. If you believe vilification and hatred towards all Muslims is justified that your call; I disagree. No point in further exchange.

[simple1]

Eeeeeeeeeeer, who has the hate and discord...?......You think NOT a certain religion....?

Some Muslims yes, not all. Vilification of the Muslim population in general achieves nothing but damage to the social fabric. Right wing extremism is unfortunately on the rise in Oz, good examples are Reclaim Australia and Australian Defence League who members often indulge in ugly cowardly actions and get oxygen from the politicians referred to above.

The Oz government will get on top of the Islamic extremism issue, the politicians I mentioned only unnecessarily complicate matters.

You tell me/us WHY extremism might have come to the fore in Aus or any country..?.....Aussy hats with corks, beer a problem............Or is it folk taken in for a better life that cannot accept the Aussy COUNTRY routes and life...?

I guess the Muslim populations of all Western nations would act like choirboys were it not for the assorted defense leagues which I guess spontaneously arose out of thin air throughout the west with the sole aim of sewing discord. Or could it possibly be due to an upsurge in jihadist ideology, which has led to a familiar pattern of behavior that has scourged the Earth twice before? Strangely enough if you look at Muslim majority nations without a defense league in sight you get the same Sharia sanctioned barbarity leading to a gradual ethnic cleansing of every minority, including even Muslim minority sects.

Sorry the victimization card along with that of hiding Islamic scripture from scrutiny behind the coat tails of the entire Muslim population is wearing a little thin.

blah, blah

[samran]

Eeeeeeeeeeer, who has the hate and discord...?......You think NOT a certain religion....?

Some Muslims yes, not all. Vilification of the Muslim population in general achieves nothing but damage to the social fabric. Right wing extremism is unfortunately on the rise in Oz, good examples are Reclaim Australia and Australian Defence League who members often indulge in ugly cowardly actions and get oxygen from the politicians referred to above.

The Oz government will get on top of the Islamic extremism issue, the politicians I mentioned only unnecessarily complicate matters.

You tell me/us WHY extremism might have come to the fore in Aus or any country..?.....Aussy hats with corks, beer a problem............Or is it folk taken in for a better life that cannot accept the Aussy COUNTRY routes and life...?

I guess the Muslim populations of all Western nations would act like choirboys were it not for the assorted defense leagues which I guess spontaneously arose out of thin air throughout the west with the sole aim of sewing discord. Or could it possibly be due to an upsurge in jihadist ideology, which has led to a familiar pattern of behavior that has scourged the Earth twice before? Strangely enough if you look at Muslim majority nations without a defense league in sight you get the same Sharia sanctioned barbarity leading to a gradual ethnic cleansing of every minority, including even Muslim minority sects.

Sorry the victimization card along with that of hiding Islamic scripture from scrutiny behind the coat tails of the entire Muslim population is wearing a little thin.

In the australian context, they are just the warmed up left overs of the one nation anti asian mob, who came after jack van tongrens mob in the mid 1980s, who then came after the last defenders of the White Australia policy in the 60s, who came after those who opposed Mediterranean migrants in the 50s onwards, the Jews in the 40s, who came after the anti chinese flat earthers who instituted the White Australia policy in the first place, who came after the anti irish sectarians.

So there you have it. Same bleating fear mongers singing from the same tired song sheet.

Generation after generation.

All the more ironic coming from the migrants to Thailand who refuse to learn a word of Thai.

[NeverSure]

All the more ironic coming from the migrants to Thailand who refuse to learn a word of Thai.

Aren't they terrible? They set off their bombs and behead people in English.

[samran]

All the more ironic coming from the migrants to Thailand who refuse to learn a word of Thai.

Aren't they terrible? They set off their bombs and behead people in English.

A woman a week is murdered as a result of domestic violence in Australia. How many have been by beheading this year?

Anyway, I'm sure you approve of the following behaviour. All part of the defense of all things good I take it....

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/victoria/good-samaritan-assaulted-after-standing-up-for-muslim-women-who-were-abused-on-melbourne-train-20150526-gh9j6x.html

Edited May 29, 2015 by samran

[NeverSure]

All the more ironic coming from the migrants to Thailand who refuse to learn a word of Thai.

Aren't they terrible? They set off their bombs and behead people in English.

A woman a week is murdered as a result of domestic violence in Australia. How many have been by beheading this year?

Anyway, I'm sure you approve of the following behaviour. All part of the defense of all things good I take it....

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/victoria/good-samaritan-assaulted-after-standing-up-for-muslim-women-who-were-abused-on-melbourne-train-20150526-gh9j6x.html

You can go off topic faster than anyone I know. My post above was meant as a stab at that.

Cheers

[simple1]

Hey Simple chap..........Are you a Muslim.....or.....?

If your wife or kids were taken out by the latest Muslim crazy word you clap your hands......?

No. Do you support extreme right wing groups such as Reclaim Australia and ADL?

There are 63 different groups within the Muslim community in Australia ranging through differing ideologies and nationalities. It is utter nonsense, as suggested by some, to claim they are a coordinated group with the same global agenda.

The hysterical fear mongering and hate by some are IMO defeatist and side track / delay efforts by the Oz government get a on top of the Islamic extremism issue at local country level.

Edited May 29, 2015 by simple1

[samran]

All the more ironic coming from the migrants to Thailand who refuse to learn a word of Thai.

Aren't they terrible? They set off their bombs and behead people in English.

A woman a week is murdered as a result of domestic violence in Australia. How many have been by beheading this year?

Anyway, I'm sure you approve of the following behaviour. All part of the defense of all things good I take it....

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/victoria/good-samaritan-assaulted-after-standing-up-for-muslim-women-who-were-abused-on-melbourne-train-20150526-gh9j6x.html

You can go off topic faster than anyone I know. My post above was meant as a stab at that.

Cheers

I call it pointing out hypocracy. Not accusing you of this, but plenty of the others in the hang them high crew are hypocrites par excellence.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. The topic isn't about hypocrisy. Most people are hypocrites in one way or another. Most farangs living in Thailand done refuse to learn a word of Thai, unless they want the tuk-tuk driver to take them to all the silk shops because the Grand Palace is always closed.

Very few people on this board have acquired Thai citizenship other than by birth.

The valid points of the discussion about Australia's current plan are being lost when thread moves off-topic.

Please stay on-topic and keep comparisons about the subject manner rather than the poster.

Thanks.

[Time Traveller]

There is so much crap and so little common sense in most of the posts here IMHO.

* Tony Abbott is right, - at least this time!... No, he is not.

* Put the terrorists on a boat pointing to PNG!... Why? What do you have against PNG?

* We are creating a second grade citizens!... No, we do not. We are acknowledging their existence.

* We should apply harsher penalties for terrorism - like long term or life jail - as a deterrent.... No, we do not. And it is no deterrent!

* We will all lose our rights, our liberties and be living under the watchful eye of the Big Brother! ... Not at all.

* etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum!

It makes one think that the problem has no solution. Wrong! There are many solutions!

The solutions are right there, - obvious and on the surface.

The problem is - we do not like them! They are going against our beliefs! How typical of all people!

Yet we do not hesitate to condemn the inhuman terrorists for acting on their beliefs! How typical of all people!

Islam is exactly the same. They dislike and oppress people against their own beliefs. Except for one important different. Islams kill others and then justify it as allowable by god.

Western countries tolerate idiots like you. Islamic countries don't. That's the fact. But I doubt you'd have the courage to take your gay ways to Islamic nations and see how they "tolerate" you/

Edited May 30, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Time Traveller]

A woman a week is murdered as a result of domestic violence in Australia. How many have been by beheading this year?

Anyway, I'm sure you approve of the following behaviour. All part of the defense of all things good I take it....

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/victoria/good-samaritan-assaulted-after-standing-up-for-muslim-women-who-were-abused-on-melbourne-train-20150526-gh9j6x.html

You can go off topic faster than anyone I know. My post above was meant as a stab at that.

Cheers

I call it pointing out hypocracy. Not accusing you of this, but plenty of the others in the hang them high crew are hypocrites par excellence.

But if you invited someone into your home, and then they murdered your wife and children and then they said you should still let them live in your home after that or else he would also kill you as well, would you let that person continue living in your house ?

I guess you Samran would, because to say otherwise would be hypocritical in light of you comments about this proposed law to kick out terrorists. And remember it's only terrorists - people promoting violence - so I wonder why you seem so outspoken on this issue?

Edited May 30, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Steely Dan]

The trouble is obviously not all Muslims, but the groups and leaders who purport to represent them foster a group feeling of victimhood and grievance. They may not condone or advocate violence, but they facilitate it by the attitudes they express. The statements I have read from the Australian Muslim representatives are an almost perfect parallel to the utterances of CAIR in North America.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/jihadists-not-the-only-problem/story-fni0ffxg-1227113810921?sv=9d476ee02e3fb2e80bd41f1182219211#.VFsI7Amlh_M.facebook

p.s Note that in among the whining about civil liberties being infringed is the plea to constrain other peoples liberties by limiting freedom of speech.

[samuibeachcomber]

muslims who are dobbed extremists are usually the one's that feel marginalised in their adopted society(not all).There will always be such people no matter how much anyone wants to help them.The moderate one's need to get off their backsides and denounce them and excommunicate them from their faith.

Australia could take a leaf out of saudi arabia and ban all religions from being practised in australia other than christian.Personally i am all for the tough stance australia is promoting,the more restrictive the better.This is not a time to be soft,liberal,politically correct,its a time to face up,take seriously, this menace of islamic extremism.