Chinese elevate to status of ‘quality tourists’

[h90]

Guess no surprise that tourism minister's definition of 'quality' tourist is how much they spend.

Always was that way....

Some academic after finish university coming to Thailand with the backpack because he want to learn about the culture, nature and language: low quality tourist, because low budget.

Some fat ugly always drunk sex tourist who only know Pattaya, who shout because the western food doesn't taste the same as in his favorite restaurant at home, but spending lots of money every day: quality tourist....

[phoenixdoglover]

A previous post presented some data from the UNWTO, which is the UN organization responsible for tracking and developing international tourism.

I looked at the 2014 report from UNWTO to see what they had to say about Southeast Asia and Thailand.

Regrettably, not much.

For Southeast Asia, the tourism outlook for 2015 was described as "flat", and growth was projected in other parts of Asia.

For Thailand, there is exactly one mention in the entire report; confirming that Thailand is a member of UNWTO. No programs, events, or achievements, while other Asian countries get multiple mentions.

This reinforces the impression I have that Thai government functions like the Ministry of Tourism tend to be insular and "home grown". This is particularly troubling for tourism. I think Thai officials need to get out in the world more, learn, adapt, and apply some new ideas.

One of the things that is preventing this is the frequent disruption of the national governance. So many areas of development require a strategic outlook, and a multi-year plan of execution. How can this possibly happen in Thailand when the government gets "scrapped" and restarted every few years?

I get the growing sense that Thailand is at a critical juncture over the next few years. Political stability, AND acceptance on the international stage, is essential. That way, governance and development have a fighting chance.

The alternative is to be slowly relegated to "has been" status.

Every region has its "drama queen"; full of talent, vibrant, exciting, and a self-defeating mess. Sure, we love her; but will she ever get her act together?

[Bung]

The amount of times i see chinese complaining and argueing a restaurant bill after stuffing their faces i doubt they are keen to spend any money here!

Then the ones that push their way to the front of the line to board an aircraft that is boarding by row numbers only to have to struggle past them in the front of the plane as they complain about their seat allocation and an old lady comlaining about how cold it is, making childlike noises and gestures of being cold and demanding blankets immediately to put in their hand luggage.

Quality..

[Praematura]

The elites that run the luxury stores these Chinese shop do make money no doubt. Dear leader gets political coverage by showing tourism didn't take a hit after he took over, another win.

The losers are the majority of the population that typically rely on tourism revenue in the classic sense.

A few examples: My condo at view talay 5 is virtually empty as the leasing agent says Chinese don't rent or buy condos so no income from them. The restaurants around here in Pattaya are never frequented by Chinese and the ones that did get the tour groups ended up not wanting them as all other tourists stopped eating there as told by my wife's friend that owns a restaurant. I've yet to see a single Chinese rent a motorcycle here, like I do. The bars, girls and associated venues are dying as again Chinese don't shop at anywhere but 7-11. Say what you will about "sex tourists" engaging in these activities but the money spent in part does go up to support the single moms, and by extension the poor folks in Issan so no benefit to them by having the Chinese.

There are offsetting costs too besides driving away other tourists and lost revenue. All these package tourists are overloading the infrastructure and polluting the sea/air. Thousands of busses are constantly on the move spewing diesel fumes. The increased sewage is pumped directly into the water and I've never seen it so fetid.
Even the Thais, not the most conscientious about polluting are tired of the Chinese pollution generated. Look at the pic below:

<link to Phuketwan removed>

Edited May 29, 2015 by Tywais
link to phuketwan removed as per forum rules

[pegman]

Impossible to know how much a tourist spends. The only time I see Chinese spending anything is at the food court at Tesco as the food is so cheap it's almost free. Or at Ko Larn when we witnessed them trying to barter beach chair fees to 20 baht instead of paying the 100.

This article is ridiculous and they must of sample department store purchases of hand bags and extrapolated.

Think again:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101843609

[Praematura]

Impossible to know how much a tourist spends. The only time I see Chinese spending anything is at the food court at Tesco as the food is so cheap it's almost free. Or at Ko Larn when we witnessed them trying to barter beach chair fees to 20 baht instead of paying the 100.

This article is ridiculous and they must of sample department store purchases of hand bags and extrapolated.

Think again:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101843609

Your making my point, an excerpt from your article states:

"

The CITM report didn't delve into the specifics as to what the travelers were spending their cash on, but according to analysts at research house CLSA, hitting the malls and casinos were largely to blame."

[otherstuff1957]

^ So where do these bussloads of Chinese tourists spend their money? One of the main drivers of tourism from China is face. The Chinese love to show off their new affluence by buying gifts for all of their friends and relatives back home, They are also obsessed with Brand Names!

So, they will spend very large amounts of money at Gaysorn, Emporium, Central Embassy, etc.. etc.. and then go eat noodles in some giant, Chinese-Thai owned cafeteria.

I doubt if much of the money spend at 'upscale' brand name shops goes upcountry. In fact, I would be surprised if it all stays in Thailand.

Edited May 29, 2015 by otherstuff1957

[hawker9000]

It could just be appeasement propoganda to create illusion of friendship with the Chinese in stark contrast to cold relations with the United States after the coup and usurping of democracy twice in ten years.

That and the fact that China is expanding it's territory and wants to expand down to Thailand for rice fields and fresh water, both which they won't have enough of in 20 years or so. Pretty much a repeat of Thailand siding with the Japanese in the World War II. It's ok Prayuth, the Chinese will take good care of Thailand just like Tibet.

Somebody should make a Saturday morning cartoon version of Faust for thai tv ...

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chinese-company-sends-12-000-thai-holiday-101651324.html#nNwhFST

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/chinese-company-sends-12-000-thai-holiday-101651324.html#nNwhFST

"A Chinese company is sending more than 12,000 people on a holiday to Thailand, tourism officials said Thursday, with one resort hosting a series of back-to-back banquets catering to thousands of guests at a time."

[itthiphol Kunplome, Pattaya's mayor, confirmed that the first batch of nearly 3,000 employees had begun arriving in his city.

"We are ready to welcome them and ready to facilitate their activities while they are in Pattaya," he told AFP.]

[Fullstop]

Oh so quality is measured by spending power? !

What about the fact that Chinese tourists are...

Ill mannered, push in front, noisy, pick their nose and are uncouth!

At least Thais aren't ill mannered or uncouth ... but there's a Hell of a lot of pushing in front, noise and nose picking going on.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Fullstop

[daveAustin]

Welcome to them, Thailand.

[sambum]

So Quality is only defined by money?

What about the fact that they.....

Will not queue but push to the front, are ill mannered, aggressive, pick their nose, noisy and have no consideration.

Horrible people and the Honk Kong Chinese would agree!

At the end of the day they are better for the economy than penny pinching fat farang pensioners. They come to Thailand, spend money, and leave within 2-3 weeks. This is the sort of crowd Thailand wishes to attract, not farangs who try to put their nose into everything.

Your whole post suggests that you indeed think that quality is indeed defined by money, as English 1 suggests.You are saying that as long as they come to Thailand, spend money, and leave within 2 - 3 weeks, they can behave in the most diabolical way, and it doesn't matter?

And yes, I am one of those fat farang pensioners that you are so critical of, but I and all my friends and acquaintances probably spend more in a week than these Chinese spend in a month, and that is EVERY week of the year - year in year out, so I'm afraid that if you think we are "penny pinchers" you are very much mistaken - plus I don't know of 1 person that would fit this bill:-

"Will not queue but push to the front, are ill mannered, aggressive, pick their nose, noisy and have no consideration."

I am originally from the UK, and we actually invented queuing! Where are you from by the way?

Yes, there are fahrang pensioners who live in Thailand permanently, and who spend money, and don't cause problems.

However, I'm going to say that some fahlang pensioners do cause problems, and are almost penniless and staying in Thailand. These men don't tend to stay in Pattaya, the rent in Pattaya is not so cheap. These men tend to stay away from Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket. These people live on whatever government pension, rent out houses for four or five thousand baht per month, and go out drinking about once a week. They do the rest of their drinking in their own homes, and buy their food from the local supermarket and cook at home. I don't have a problem with such people, but some of them abuse and shout at Thais in the bars they drink in. They speak Thai because they've lived in Thailand for years, but are bitter and angry because they have little money, they are forced to watch tourists turn up and who spend good money. These men can't get retirement visas because their pension/income is not big enough, and must try to get tourist visas, this just causes more anger and bitterness.

These are, surely, 'tourists' or foreigners that Thailand does NOT actually want ? And unfortunately, there seems to be a growing number of them.

So the problem is some "fahlang" pensioners who go out once a week, are bitter and angry that tourists turn up that have more money than they have, and shout at the locals in the bars that they drink in?

If this is the best that you can come up with regarding a problem in Thailand, I would suggest that the PM has done a wonderful job in bringing happiness back to the people!

Every day there are hundreds of farangs that are being attacked, robbed, beaten up, murdered, raped by bitter and angry Thais, and scammed/conned out of their money- sometimes by the very people who are supposed to be there to protect and help them (i.e.the BIB/RTP) and you complain about some pensioners that "abuse and shout at Thais in the bars they drink in."!!! I am sure that the Thais must be more than capable of handling that kind of situation!

Get a life, or at the very least find something more important to complain about!

Edited May 29, 2015 by sambum

[tonbridgebrit]

At the end of the day they are better for the economy than penny pinching fat farang pensioners. They come to Thailand, spend money, and leave within 2-3 weeks. This is the sort of crowd Thailand wishes to attract, not farangs who try to put their nose into everything.

Your whole post suggests that you indeed think that quality is indeed defined by money, as English 1 suggests.You are saying that as long as they come to Thailand, spend money, and leave within 2 - 3 weeks, they can behave in the most diabolical way, and it doesn't matter?

And yes, I am one of those fat farang pensioners that you are so critical of, but I and all my friends and acquaintances probably spend more in a week than these Chinese spend in a month, and that is EVERY week of the year - year in year out, so I'm afraid that if you think we are "penny pinchers" you are very much mistaken - plus I don't know of 1 person that would fit this bill:-

"Will not queue but push to the front, are ill mannered, aggressive, pick their nose, noisy and have no consideration."

I am originally from the UK, and we actually invented queuing! Where are you from by the way?

Yes, there are fahrang pensioners who live in Thailand permanently, and who spend money, and don't cause problems.

However, I'm going to say that some fahlang pensioners do cause problems, and are almost penniless and staying in Thailand. These men don't tend to stay in Pattaya, the rent in Pattaya is not so cheap. These men tend to stay away from Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket. These people live on whatever government pension, rent out houses for four or five thousand baht per month, and go out drinking about once a week. They do the rest of their drinking in their own homes, and buy their food from the local supermarket and cook at home. I don't have a problem with such people, but some of them abuse and shout at Thais in the bars they drink in. They speak Thai because they've lived in Thailand for years, but are bitter and angry because they have little money, they are forced to watch tourists turn up and who spend good money. These men can't get retirement visas because their pension/income is not big enough, and must try to get tourist visas, this just causes more anger and bitterness.

These are, surely, 'tourists' or foreigners that Thailand does NOT actually want ? And unfortunately, there seems to be a growing number of them.

So the problem is some "fahlang" pensioners who go out once a week, are bitter and angry that tourists turn up that have more money than they have, and shout at the locals in the bars that they drink in?

If this is the best that you can come up with regarding a problem in Thailand, I would suggest that the PM has done a wonderful job in bringing happiness back to the people!

Every day there are hundreds of farangs that are being attacked, robbed, beaten up, murdered, raped by bitter and angry Thais, and scammed/conned out of their money- sometimes by the very people who are supposed to be there to protect and help them (i.e.the BIB/RTP) and you complain about some pensioners that "abuse and shout at Thais in the bars they drink in."!!! I am sure that the Thais must be more than capable of handling that kind of situation!

Get a life, or at the very least find something more important to complain about!

sambum, I am trying to compare the penniless old men who live permanently in Thailand with the Chinese tourists who go there. Yes, some of the Chinese tourists cause a minor problem, but I think the old men who abuse Thais in bars and other places, well, those people are worse.

You also get other permanent tourists who are not very old, been in Thailand for ages, speak a bit of Thai, and go on and on about how rubbish Thailand is. Again, they walk into bars, and start verbally abusing the Thai staff. Things like looking at the women in the bars, and saying to them in Thai "you are a group of prostitutes, you cannot cheat and steal my money, you are all buffalo sh-t". Yes, these fahlang have learnt how to say this in Thai. The local Thais hate this, and indeed, sometimes, the women in the bar will respond by shouting back at them, tell them to pay up, and leave. And angry foreigner tosses a fifty baht note on the table, and shouts out "you are all buffalo sh-t, I don't want to waste my money here" in Thai, as he walks out of the bar. Remember, the foreigner doesn't even know the people in the bar, he's basically an angry and embittered person, abusing Thais because, because they are Thai.

You know, when I see this, I sometimes want to help and join in with the ladies, and I feel like pushing the hooligan/angry person out of the bar as he walks out. There was once, I noticed a katoey with some Thai bar girls, and the katoey (ladyboy) did actually push the fahlang out as he walked out, and katoey pushed him twice. The katoey was almost daring the angry man "go on, push me back if you've got courage, we'ill see what happens then". Angry man just left. Yes, I bought the katoey a drink after that, and no, I'm not interested in sex with katoeys !

Anyway, I know the bulk of retired men in Thailand are okay, you seem to be an okay man from what you've written. Surely, if you've been in Thailand long enough, you yourself know about some of the fahlang trouble-makers that I'm on about ??

[boomerangutang]

One thing the Shinawatres (former leaders) and coup generals (current leaders) agree on is getting as cozy as possible to China. China has a lot of money. Money is God. Plus most Thai politicians are Chinese descent.

Fact remains, Chinese do not spend much per person when traveling. Comparatively, they're probably on par with Indians. The people running TAT are wrong, as they usually are. They're trying to do everything they can to flatter the Chinese. The self-appointed government is offering up Thai Land (all sorts of big contracts for infrastructure) to China and its banks while concurrently, TAT is brown nosing the Chinese, in part to try and defray the bad publicity Chinese tourists have been generating for themselves.

Get real TAT. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but for the rest of us, your credence quotient has plopped on to the floor.

Someone earlier mentioned $135 billion spent by Chinese travelers ww. Maybe so, but that's cumulative for millions of tourists. What's the average per traveler? I don't care personally, but apparently it's a big deal to brown nosing Chinese-Thais who run TAT.

[Local Drunk]

Well, no one else is coming here in droves are they? I think the journalist that wrote this confused quantity with quality.

[simon43]

Posters on this thread seem to be saying that the average Chinese tourist doesn't spend much money.

I have to politely disagree.

Perhaps 95% of the guests at my Phuket B&B are Chinese, the vast majority coming from mainland China.

They pay a low rate for my guest-room (1,000 baht in low season, 2,500 baht in high season)

They do not buy my beer, but prefer to top up their thermos with hot water for their tea and noodles.

But after they have checked out each day (airport B&B, so stay only 1 night), we have to remove many discarded packaging for top end perfumes.

These guests do not want to spend much on B&B, because it is not a 'face-enhancing' item. But they are willing to spend thousands of baht on brand-name, Western perfumes that they can take back to the village in Sichuan and 'show off' to their friends.

They do spend money here, but they spend it on tangible, hi-so products, not a transient hotel/food service that is finished when they return to China.

Edited May 29, 2015 by simon43

[tonbridgebrit]

Posters on this thread seem to be saying that the average Chinese tourist doesn't spend much money.

I have to politely disagree.

Perhaps 95% of the guests at my Phuket B&B are Chinese, the vast majority coming from mainland China.

They pay a low rate for my guest-room (1,000 baht in low season, 2,500 baht in high season)

They do not buy my beer, but prefer to top up their thermos with hot water for their tea and noodles.

But after they have checked out each day (airport B&B, so stay only 1 night), we have to remove many discarded packaging for top end perfumes.

These guests do not want to spend much on B&B, because it is not a 'face-enhancing' item. But they are willing to spend thousands of baht on brand-name, Western perfumes that they can take back to the village in Sichuan and 'show off' to their friends.

They do spend money here, but they spend it on tangible, hi-so products, not a transient hotel/food service that is finished when they return to China.

Thank you, for the above nice and sensible post !

So, you never get Chinese hooligans and yobs who stay at your place ? Very rare ? They don't get drunk, and vomit onto the pavement outside, at four in the morning ? And none of this drunken fights with other drunken tourists ?

And indeed, they spend good money in the shopping malls. The goods might not be Thai, but, still, it means profit for the big shopping malls in Thailand. And very important, they've paid for their hotel rooms.

There's talk that tourists coming to Thailand might actually double in the next ten or fifteen years. The number of Chinese tourists might double in the next six to ten years. A lot of new hotels are going to have to be built to accomadate all the extra tourists. Hopefully, your hotel will be busy for the next few years ! Bump up the room-rate if the occupancy rate is high, you're entitled to do it !

[lostoday]

Posters on this thread seem to be saying that the average Chinese tourist doesn't spend much money.

I have to politely disagree.

Perhaps 95% of the guests at my Phuket B&B are Chinese, the vast majority coming from mainland China.

They pay a low rate for my guest-room (1,000 baht in low season, 2,500 baht in high season)

They do not buy my beer, but prefer to top up their thermos with hot water for their tea and noodles.

But after they have checked out each day (airport B&B, so stay only 1 night), we have to remove many discarded packaging for top end perfumes.

These guests do not want to spend much on B&B, because it is not a 'face-enhancing' item. But they are willing to spend thousands of baht on brand-name, Western perfumes that they can take back to the village in Sichuan and 'show off' to their friends.

They do spend money here, but they spend it on tangible, hi-so products, not a transient hotel/food service that is finished when they return to China.

Thank you, for the above nice and sensible post !

So, you never get Chinese hooligans and yobs who stay at your place ? Very rare ? They don't get drunk, and vomit onto the pavement outside, at four in the morning ? And none of this drunken fights with other drunken tourists ?

And indeed, they spend good money in the shopping malls. The goods might not be Thai, but, still, it means profit for the big shopping malls in Thailand. And very important, they've paid for their hotel rooms.

There's talk that tourists coming to Thailand might actually double in the next ten or fifteen years. The number of Chinese tourists might double in the next six to ten years. A lot of new hotels are going to have to be built to accomadate all the extra tourists. Hopefully, your hotel will be busy for the next few years ! Bump up the room-rate if the occupancy rate is high, you're entitled to do it !

Well this is a fine kettle of fish. Who is right and who is wrong?Tonbridgebrit are you a hotel owner too? Or have quiet a bit of experience with Chinese tourists in your hotel?

[tonbridgebrit]

Posters on this thread seem to be saying that the average Chinese tourist doesn't spend much money.

I have to politely disagree.

Perhaps 95% of the guests at my Phuket B&B are Chinese, the vast majority coming from mainland China.

They pay a low rate for my guest-room (1,000 baht in low season, 2,500 baht in high season)

They do not buy my beer, but prefer to top up their thermos with hot water for their tea and noodles.

But after they have checked out each day (airport B&B, so stay only 1 night), we have to remove many discarded packaging for top end perfumes.

These guests do not want to spend much on B&B, because it is not a 'face-enhancing' item. But they are willing to spend thousands of baht on brand-name, Western perfumes that they can take back to the village in Sichuan and 'show off' to their friends.

They do spend money here, but they spend it on tangible, hi-so products, not a transient hotel/food service that is finished when they return to China.

Thank you, for the above nice and sensible post !

So, you never get Chinese hooligans and yobs who stay at your place ? Very rare ? They don't get drunk, and vomit onto the pavement outside, at four in the morning ? And none of this drunken fights with other drunken tourists ?

And indeed, they spend good money in the shopping malls. The goods might not be Thai, but, still, it means profit for the big shopping malls in Thailand. And very important, they've paid for their hotel rooms.

There's talk that tourists coming to Thailand might actually double in the next ten or fifteen years. The number of Chinese tourists might double in the next six to ten years. A lot of new hotels are going to have to be built to accomadate all the extra tourists. Hopefully, your hotel will be busy for the next few years ! Bump up the room-rate if the occupancy rate is high, you're entitled to do it !

Well this is a fine kettle of fish. Who is right and who is wrong?Tonbridgebrit are you a hotel owner too? Or have quiet a bit of experience with Chinese tourists in your hotel?

I'm certainly not a hotel owner !

I'm trying to say that Chinese are not hooligans, they don't usually do things like get into drunken brawls and all the rest. Most tourists don't, most tourists are not hooligans, but a small percentage are.

Unfortunately, a 'disproportionately' large percentage of the hooligans and yobs are from Britain and Australia ! There are British people who are yobs when abroad, I do know, I've been to Spain !

[simon43]

So, you never get Chinese hooligans and yobs who stay at your place?

My hotels are all small/guesthouses. I have never had a problem with a Chinese guest. Generally, they don't drink beer, so don't get drunk. The men occasionally smoke in the rooms which annoys me, but is managable.

The worst aspect is that normal conversation seems to consist of shouting at each other at 2 paces.

If I have 'western' guests, then I give them rooms away from the Chinese.

If all guests are Chinese, then I let them get on with the shouting and I go to bed with a cool beer and (if I'm lucky), a hot woman

But I have heard horror stories about Chinese tour groups. I think the 'rampaging at breakfast' is because they are competing against each other to get to the food - queuing doesn't seem to exist in China - it is every person for themselves.

[JakeSully]

Typical assumption that bargirls are god's gift to men and punters.

Ever given 1000 baht for a 90 baht drink and only gotten 10 baht back with them saying you only gave a 100?

Ever shower after a short time and come back to realize that the money you were going to tip them for a good time has already been snatched from your pants?

Ever have them renegotiate a deal?

These are the things that spawn anger.. like you're there to spend money but not get scammed. And it's worse with women than with ladyboys but it's universal in Thailand.. the %'s may vary. And it's not based on looks either.. I've seen boys 18 year old get enticed with "freebies" that didn't turn out to be so free.

sambum, I am trying to compare the penniless old men who live permanently in Thailand with the Chinese tourists who go there. Yes, some of the Chinese tourists cause a minor problem, but I think the old men who abuse Thais in bars and other places, well, those people are worse.

You also get other permanent tourists who are not very old, been in Thailand for ages, speak a bit of Thai, and go on and on about how rubbish Thailand is. Again, they walk into bars, and start verbally abusing the Thai staff. Things like looking at the women in the bars, and saying to them in Thai "you are a group of prostitutes, you cannot cheat and steal my money, you are all buffalo sh-t". Yes, these fahlang have learnt how to say this in Thai. The local Thais hate this, and indeed, sometimes, the women in the bar will respond by shouting back at them, tell them to pay up, and leave. And angry foreigner tosses a fifty baht note on the table, and shouts out "you are all buffalo sh-t, I don't want to waste my money here" in Thai, as he walks out of the bar. Remember, the foreigner doesn't even know the people in the bar, he's basically an angry and embittered person, abusing Thais because, because they are Thai.

You know, when I see this, I sometimes want to help and join in with the ladies, and I feel like pushing the hooligan/angry person out of the bar as he walks out. There was once, I noticed a katoey with some Thai bar girls, and the katoey (ladyboy) did actually push the fahlang out as he walked out, and katoey pushed him twice. The katoey was almost daring the angry man "go on, push me back if you've got courage, we'ill see what happens then". Angry man just left. Yes, I bought the katoey a drink after that, and no, I'm not interested in sex with katoeys !

Anyway, I know the bulk of retired men in Thailand are okay, you seem to be an okay man from what you've written. Surely, if you've been in Thailand long enough, you yourself know about some of the fahlang trouble-makers that I'm on about ??

Edited May 29, 2015 by JakeSully

[boomerangutang]

I still think the numbers, if they're not out of thin air, are cumulative (for all Chinese tourists) rather than average. If claimed to be average, then that's a whole lot of perfume the Chinese are buying - because the average farang tourist spend a lot daily.

Here's another thing you won't hear from TAT: rip offs, and the manifold hassles which ensue. I used to think Latin and South America were the worst for rip-offs (not counting Africa), but now am not so sure. SE Asia is giving the Latino thieves a lot of competition. Just the other day, I befriended a young Malaysian woman who was traveling solo. She had her wallet ripped off in a bar, and it completely screwed up her vacation. It's not an anomaly. At least half the backpackers I meet - suffer thievery while traveling in Thailand. Not cool. If a thief is caught, the penalty should be high. I've heard about SE Asian thieves being caught, and even if they get some jail time, the time is always shortened - usually by half. Why is that? And there's never a fine or confiscation of the thieves' possessions (phone, motorbike, gold chain, etc.) Is Thailand too easy on convicted thieves? I'd say yes.

[lostoday]

I still think the numbers, if they're not out of thin air, are cumulative (for all Chinese tourists) rather than average. If claimed to be average, then that's a whole lot of perfume the Chinese are buying - because the average farang tourist spend a lot daily.

Here's another thing you won't hear from TAT: rip offs, and the manifold hassles which ensue. I used to think Latin and South America were the worst for rip-offs (not counting Africa), but now am not so sure. SE Asia is giving the Latino thieves a lot of competition. Just the other day, I befriended a young Malaysian woman who was traveling solo. She had her wallet ripped off in a bar, and it completely screwed up her vacation. It's not an anomaly. At least half the backpackers I meet - suffer thievery while traveling in Thailand. Not cool. If a thief is caught, the penalty should be high. I've heard about SE Asian thieves being caught, and even if they get some jail time, the time is always shortened - usually by half. Why is that? And there's never a fine or confiscation of the thieves' possessions (phone, motorbike, gold chain, etc.) Is Thailand too easy on convicted thieves? I'd say yes.

Backpackers wear gold chains a lot do they?

[boomerangutang]

I still think the numbers, if they're not out of thin air, are cumulative (for all Chinese tourists) rather than average. If claimed to be average, then that's a whole lot of perfume the Chinese are buying - because the average farang tourist spend a lot daily.

Here's another thing you won't hear from TAT: rip offs, and the manifold hassles which ensue. I used to think Latin and South America were the worst for rip-offs (not counting Africa), but now am not so sure. SE Asia is giving the Latino thieves a lot of competition. Just the other day, I befriended a young Malaysian woman who was traveling solo. She had her wallet ripped off in a bar, and it completely screwed up her vacation. It's not an anomaly. At least half the backpackers I meet - suffer thievery while traveling in Thailand. Not cool. If a thief is caught, the penalty should be high. I've heard about SE Asian thieves being caught, and even if they get some jail time, the time is always shortened - usually by half. Why is that? And there's never a fine or confiscation of the thieves' possessions (phone, motorbike, gold chain, etc.) Is Thailand too easy on convicted thieves? I'd say yes.

Backpackers wear gold chains a lot do they?

you mis-read my missive (I didn't insinuate backpackers wear gold chains). on a side note: Years ago, a Thai hill triber tried to sell a thick gold chain cheap - to me. I said no and I suspected it was stolen. I probably should have told authorities. What would u have done?

[PaPiPuPePo]

The amount of times i see chinese complaining and argueing a restaurant bill after stuffing their faces i doubt they are keen to spend any money here!

Then the ones that push their way to the front of the line to board an aircraft that is boarding by row numbers only to have to struggle past them in the front of the plane as they complain about their seat allocation and an old lady comlaining about how cold it is, making childlike noises and gestures of being cold and demanding blankets immediately to put in their hand luggage.

Quality..

I been going to China on business trips off and on for longer than I care to admit, so have a pretty good idea of the place. First, there are plenty of good people in China, tourists from any country don't really give the best impression--I see some horrendous behaviour from my countrymen/women as well as from other Westerners.

That said, there's a level of selfishness and inconsideration of others there that is beyond what I encounter pretty much anywhere else. One small but telling example: if you take an elevator, say going up, in China, it will often stop at a floor where no one is going up. That's because a lot of people will push both buttons thinking it will speed up their trip without any regard, even if they're well aware of it, how that inconveniences others. If there's one person standing there when the door opens, they'll look at you with a blank look even though they're the one who just made you stop for no reason. I rarely see that kind of childish, selfish behaviour elsewhere. I could go on, and on, but won't....well one more:

I flew BKK-HKG quite recently on Sri Lankan--Sri Lankans are pretty laid-back people, the plan was full of mainlanders, and they were pulling the usual crap--using the restrooms and pulling down their carry-on luggage while the plane descended, then jumping up while it was taxiing. The flight attendants were politely announcing that passengers should remain seated thank you etc, so since I was sitting across from one I told her how to say, not "please sit down," but "sit down!" in Chinese; made it clear that politeness equals weakness. She couldn't quite get the pronunciation, so when the back of the plane all stood up while taxiing and started to rush forward, not wanting to be almost last off the plane (good luck cutting into a line of mainland Chinese), I regretfully stood up, turned around, and yelled in Chinese "SIT DOWN, NOW!" They all stopped their forward motion, and a few even sat down. That's what it takes. You have to shame them or they just don't give a bleep--all most care about it they're own face, so make them lose it in front of others and they'll get in line, literally or figuratively. Usually, anyway.

It helps if you can say some zingers like "are you shameless, or ignorant" or things like that. One good thing compared to Thai men, you can get verbal with most Chinese men and they won't throw down and do their best to stomp you (half) to death joined by every other local guy in sight. Just watch out for people with scalding hot water at hand!

[lostoday]

I still think the numbers, if they're not out of thin air, are cumulative (for all Chinese tourists) rather than average. If claimed to be average, then that's a whole lot of perfume the Chinese are buying - because the average farang tourist spend a lot daily.

Here's another thing you won't hear from TAT: rip offs, and the manifold hassles which ensue. I used to think Latin and South America were the worst for rip-offs (not counting Africa), but now am not so sure. SE Asia is giving the Latino thieves a lot of competition. Just the other day, I befriended a young Malaysian woman who was traveling solo. She had her wallet ripped off in a bar, and it completely screwed up her vacation. It's not an anomaly. At least half the backpackers I meet - suffer thievery while traveling in Thailand. Not cool. If a thief is caught, the penalty should be high. I've heard about SE Asian thieves being caught, and even if they get some jail time, the time is always shortened - usually by half. Why is that? And there's never a fine or confiscation of the thieves' possessions (phone, motorbike, gold chain, etc.) Is Thailand too easy on convicted thieves? I'd say yes.

Backpackers wear gold chains a lot do they?

you mis-read my missive (I didn't insinuate backpackers wear gold chains). on a side note: Years ago, a Thai hill triber tried to sell a thick gold chain cheap - to me. I said no and I suspected it was stolen. I probably should have told authorities. What would u have done?

Thieves who target back packers have to be retarded. What do they steal? Smelly socks or dirty hair ribbons?

I've watched old women try and rip off bus riders and I yelled at them and jumped up and down and flapped my arms and that seemed to scare them away.

I carry a cane with me when I go to dangerous places and will whack a crook if they try and get too close to me. http://www.woodenswords.com/product_p/shillelagh-long.htm

[saakura]

I find it hard to believe the average Chinese tourist spends more than an Aussie tourist.

An Aussie would spill more than a Chinese tourist spent on an average day.

Lot of angry farangs who seem to have lost 'face' reading this report.

[lostoday]

I find it hard to believe the average Chinese tourist spends more than an Aussie tourist.

An Aussie would spill more than a Chinese tourist spent on an average day.

Lot of angry farangs who seem to have lost 'face' reading this report.

Chinese tourists to spend more, stay longer than Aussies: MBIE

Have you noticed that too. Face seems to be quite an issue. Dogs too.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/chinese-tourists-spend-more-stay-longer-aussies-mbie-b-172878

[tonbridgebrit]

Typical assumption that bargirls are god's gift to men and punters.

Ever given 1000 baht for a 90 baht drink and only gotten 10 baht back with them saying you only gave a 100?

Ever shower after a short time and come back to realize that the money you were going to tip them for a good time has already been snatched from your pants?

Ever have them renegotiate a deal?

These are the things that spawn anger.. like you're there to spend money but not get scammed. And it's worse with women than with ladyboys but it's universal in Thailand.. the %'s may vary. And it's not based on looks either.. I've seen boys 18 year old get enticed with "freebies" that didn't turn out to be so free.

sambum, I am trying to compare the penniless old men who live permanently in Thailand with the Chinese tourists who go there. Yes, some of the Chinese tourists cause a minor problem, but I think the old men who abuse Thais in bars and other places, well, those people are worse.

You also get other permanent tourists who are not very old, been in Thailand for ages, speak a bit of Thai, and go on and on about how rubbish Thailand is. Again, they walk into bars, and start verbally abusing the Thai staff. Things like looking at the women in the bars, and saying to them in Thai "you are a group of prostitutes, you cannot cheat and steal my money, you are all buffalo sh-t". Yes, these fahlang have learnt how to say this in Thai. The local Thais hate this, and indeed, sometimes, the women in the bar will respond by shouting back at them, tell them to pay up, and leave. And angry foreigner tosses a fifty baht note on the table, and shouts out "you are all buffalo sh-t, I don't want to waste my money here" in Thai, as he walks out of the bar. Remember, the foreigner doesn't even know the people in the bar, he's basically an angry and embittered person, abusing Thais because, because they are Thai.

You know, when I see this, I sometimes want to help and join in with the ladies, and I feel like pushing the hooligan/angry person out of the bar as he walks out. There was once, I noticed a katoey with some Thai bar girls, and the katoey (ladyboy) did actually push the fahlang out as he walked out, and katoey pushed him twice. The katoey was almost daring the angry man "go on, push me back if you've got courage, we'ill see what happens then". Angry man just left. Yes, I bought the katoey a drink after that, and no, I'm not interested in sex with katoeys !

Anyway, I know the bulk of retired men in Thailand are okay, you seem to be an okay man from what you've written. Surely, if you've been in Thailand long enough, you yourself know about some of the fahlang trouble-makers that I'm on about ??

Did I actually say that bargirls are God's gift to men and punters ??

The sex tourists who turn up in Thailand for two or three weeks and then go home, well, those sex tourists are not the type of trouble-maker that I'm going on about. The ones I'm on about are angry men who have lived in Thailand for ages, they've learnt how to speak Thai, they're permanent tourists, they know the scams and rip-offs. They're angry, why ? Yes, some of them have been made penniless because they were cheated out of whatever money by whatever ex-Thai girlfriend (yes, a woman who worked in a bar).

These are men who go on and on about how sh_t Thailand is, and most other foreigners will simply think "look, if you reckon Thailand is so sh_t, well, why don't you just go home to England/Germany/Australia/whatever country you're from". These permanent tourists won't go home though. It might be because they've got nothing to go home to, (try getting your old job back in engineering or computers, after you've been away for two years or more, potential employers will simply see the gap in the cv and not be interested in hiring the man, not on an expected good pay packet anyway). It might be that they're still addicted to Thailand even though they don't like Thailand anymore.

I don't have a problem with penniless permanent tourists, I just don't like the ones who antagonise the local Thais, and they also annoy other foreigners when sitting in the bars and going on and on about why they think Thailand is so sh_t. And they are certainly more than annoying (they are deeply offensive) when they start verbally abusing Thais in the bars. Foreigners who know such individuals who do things like this will avoid that particular bar when that particular vile person is in there. If the fahlang owner of the bar is in the bar, well yes, the owner will tell the angry man '&lt;removed&gt; off, and go and annoy some other people somewhere else'.

Given the choice, I'd much rather tolerate 50 Chinese tourists (so they might spit on the pavement , talk loudly, just walk pass bars and spend no money in the bars, create people congestion, there coach/bus is getting in the way) than one angry fahlang who is annoying other customers and swearing at the women in the bars in Thai. Please note, he doesn't actually know the women in the bars, he's doing it because he's got anger and hatred inside him. And there seems to be more and more such people.

Thanks for reading.