Subaru BRZ vs VW Scirocco - Input appreciated

[Pdaz]

My dilemma.

Subaru recently reduced the price of the BRZ. Now around 2mil.

200 HP, RWD and manual available. Interior not that special and chassis could really do with more power.

VW Scirocco 'old model - pre minor chance' available 'new' with red plate and 0 % finance ( not needed but a good option )

190 HP FWD DSG. Good quality interior, bit softer and less 'sporty' driving - but more practical and spacious.

Both suffer higher depreciation than usual Thai fav's ( not really a huge consideration , don't care about fuel economy either ) neither has dealer/service in Pattaya.

Hmmmm which to choose ?

In reality I'd prefer a 2 door Golf GTi - rare beast here as I think only available as grey import or a Golf R - 4 mil ( wonderful but can't justify price premium over regular GTi here )

Real wish list item is Cayman S ... More saving required

Any thoughts ? ( If you don't know why someone would spend 2-5 mil on a car you r in wrong forum, yes I know cars are cheaper in UK, Europe and US.... I don't live there...)

Thanks PDaz

[DavisH]

Just from what I've seen / read - the brz looks great, but they really skimped with the interior. Check out the radio that is illuminated green, against the orange of the other dials. Looks yucky. The exhaust sounds great - very meaty especially with an aftermarket exhaust. It doesn't seem all that fast though, maybe 0-100 in 9 seconds or so, and needs to be wound out to get the performance. It would be a tough choice and you'd need to drive both. Nice to have the money to have this choice:)

[Pdaz]

Yes the interior is pretty dated looking despite use of leather and alcantara. I saw the lighting colour issue on YouTube. Lots of reviews for it, mostly good and saying how well it drives. It's light too. Funny how 200hp doesn't seem enough. In the 80's a160hp Capri 2.8i was seen as a powerful car. 911's were 220-240hp and even up until quite recently only super saloons and real sports cars had upwards of 200hp.. But alas compared to an M3, Golf R or a bunch of other hot hatches from Renault, Seat etc it just doesn't sound a lot. My current TT has around 260hp but is heavier. Midrange torque is far stronger too.. Hmmmm. 2 mil is a lot in western terms ( new Cayman GT4 is around 3mil in USA ) for such moderate performance but there is little on the market here ( ignoring mods and engine swapped saloons )

It seems you need 6 mil before things get interesting and even then you can only find autos..

Pretty sure a Camry or Accord isn't much cheaper than the BRZ.

[frankphuket]

Not sure it helps much, as I don't have either, but I do have a 2 door GTI, bought 3 years ago. Had some DSG issues in the beginning, it was leaking, so this you might want to check up, understand that those DSGs are having issues. With a little remap it goes up to 250-260 hp and it does have good power. Overall it is a nice daily driver, still comfy, practical but when you want can be quiet a riot.

Hard to see anything else out there right now....although I wish it would be manual, therefore I am considering a Subaru WRX 2015 manual, but are a bit scared about interior, harsh ride and possibly service here.

thought the BRZ is a bit of a show car, but not sure if I would be happy with it for long....than I haven't driven it yet.

[DavisH]

I don't know how good a sirocco sounds, but..

The brz has a manual too. Maybe there will be less issues as it's non-turbo (heard about some problems with the wrx). There are supercharger/ turbo kits available for this car in LoS anyway. http://www.hksthailand.com/Vehicle/TOYOTA_SUBARU/86_BRZ/8

[casualbiker]

Arn't there some factory power kits available?

[casualbiker]

Litchfield performance.. Test drive review.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-brz-litchfield-first-drive-2013-10-16

[casualbiker]

Cosworth..

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/think-2015-subaru-brz-needs-more-power-cosworth-has-230-hp-solution-video

[WarpSpeed]

I don't know how good a sirocco sounds, but..

The brz has a manual too. Maybe there will be less issues as it's non-turbo (heard about some problems with the wrx). There are supercharger/ turbo kits available for this car in LoS anyway. http://www.hksthailand.com/Vehicle/TOYOTA_SUBARU/86_BRZ/8

Sorry but there are much better exhaust systems out there then that for this car, the header looks good and well made but if the mufflers are poorly matched and it sounds like it's in a pea can, that engine properly exhausted has a much throatier sound that is just music to one's ears and has a lope to it at idle when properly tuned. Sadly that sounds like 2 scooters tied together. My neighbor has written software to tune these, he does about 4 to 5 cars per week and is making a killing. He holds the regional license for tuning the GT86, BRZ, FRS and just got authorization to tune the WRX. He has a GT86 (AKA Scion FRS) and it;s tuned to over 550hp with intercooled turbo but he and his geeky Toyota buds have been running them for some time now and it has had no issues with the drive train handling that Hp. It terms of package, with a few bucks you can easily make the BRZ a power house and being manual well for me it;d be a no brainer if all things being equal, it's also light. I'm a VW fan but the package including the manual option would be too much for me to pass up. I understand he has virtually tuned a few cars in Asia too.

[Pdaz]

Thanks for your input Frankphuket.. I had also considered the StI but it's so butt ugly and has same interior issues as BRZ.. It boils down to at least it has HP and manual gearbox.. But little else.

There is next to nothing available. Early (bmw) mini's are great but too long in the tooth, Early TT's ( same issue, too old )

Visited a couple of VW showrooms in BKK today.. Was told Sciroccos all sold out, no Golf's either. They are waiting for new stock. No info, no prices and no idea when new cars will arrive.. How the f*** do they run a business ?

Audi at least can order u a new TT ( manusl available ) but 3.9 mil is almost grey inport Porsche money..

Did you purchase your 2 door GTi from VW main dealer or from grey market ?

If u have any contacts for VW I'd appreciate a PM

Cheers

Pdaz

[Pdaz]

well I can cross the BRZ off my list. Just been to Bang Na for a test drive.. They had a manual which was a plus. Good seating position and better interior than I expected. Wasn't able to cane it in the Bang Na traffic but steering and acceleration were acceptable. But no kick, it really didn't grab me... Disapointed as RWD coupe is really my thing. But just too much like a mid 80's Celica ( yes I know it's meant to evoke the Corolla AE86 ) but surely it should be more than just that. I can see why Subaru couldn't shift them at 2.7 mil even 2 mil is going to be a stretch as it just doesn't feel special enough. What a shame. Hate to say it but my 10 yr old Audi is still in a different league.

So looks like my search will continue... Kinda bummed. At thid rate I will be down at Merc looking at the A series AMG. It's a four door with a slush box

[frankphuket]

Thanks for your input Frankphuket.. I had also considered the StI but it's so butt ugly and has same interior issues as BRZ.. It boils down to at least it has HP and manual gearbox.. But little else.

There is next to nothing available. Early (bmw) mini's are great but too long in the tooth, Early TT's ( same issue, too old )

Visited a couple of VW showrooms in BKK today.. Was told Sciroccos all sold out, no Golf's either. They are waiting for new stock. No info, no prices and no idea when new cars will arrive.. How the f*** do they run a business ?

Audi at least can order u a new TT ( manusl available ) but 3.9 mil is almost grey inport Porsche money..

Did you purchase your 2 door GTi from VW main dealer or from grey market ?

If u have any contacts for VW I'd appreciate a PM

Cheers

Pdaz

Hi, bought my GTI grey as local dealers wanted 500k more. (As I am in Phuket could not see the reason as no VW dealer anyhow). Now they have only Caravelles and maybe Amaroks.....indeed no clue how they run business. Time for VW to set up their own thing...but this will still take years, till then I guess nothing much to do. Same with Skoda...just pretty useless importers.

I own also a r53 Mini GP no. 1825/2000, which of course is manual. Thinking of selling it if I can get 1.4m for it, need 4 seats.

Otherwise maybe an idea: saw a Citroen DS3 mAnual on one of the sponsors side here for around 850k? Not too hot, but decent "warm" hatch.

By the way Scirocco would never be manual here either.

Choice of fun manual cars is extremely limited.

Can we all get together and make a bulk order of Ford Fiesta ST and bribe the immigration with one too to get them thru?..

[casualbiker]

^^^^ OMG A Ford.... Noooooo .

Only joking I quite like them!

[Pdaz]

Sounds like we have exactly the same desires Frank. Although I hate autos I've convinced myself that a PDK ( or similar dual clutch ) would be okay at a push.

Spent this arvo watching Caterham 500R's blat through the UK countryside on youtube.. Folliwed by some great reviews of BMW's 1M and the Golf R. Both less than 2 mil baht over there.... Bugger.

[steveromagnino]

hey.

Well your options are not dissimilar to what I was considering a few years back, and the BRZ is IMHO too slow to consider; when a FWD runs circles around it you have to question whether it is worth the money and you need to trash it to get it to accelerate etc.

For maybe similar or less cash, you can get a second hand grey market or authorised manual MINI Cooper S R56 (and there is now the odd F56 kicking around, I know of one F56 slush box Cooper S for 1.9m) or even a GP R56 for around 2.3m or Frankphuket's GP1 R53 for 1.4m - they will keep up with/run circles around the Roc, and most certainly around the BRZ. The F56 supposedly has a much better slush box than the R56 (which was undriveable as an auto).

The Mini is a particularly good FWD also, quite balanced and fun to drive. The Roc there are a few around running more than 300HP here; I am not entirely sure I trust the VW dual clutches if you shunt enough power through them in Thailand's heat, but that's just a personal opinion.

The Benz dual clutch is many steps worse than VW, otherwise I'd suggest an A250 again, 2nd hand ones now available around 1.8m. BMW 116 is too slow, Volvo V40 is quick in a straight line but not as engaging.....so all in all you end up back at a MINI, a Roc (which is 2nd hand and around 1.2m these days), a Golf GTI (basically a Roc with a different body) also 2nd hand.

VW are about to yank the dealership from the current distributor so that's why VW Thailand Thai Yarnyon cannot get stock of much; most are grey market at the moment.

[mike324]

2 Door GTI and Sirocco can be bought in the low 1 million on the 2nd hand market. Both cars are pretty easy to service.

[casualbiker]

So what power SHOULD the BRZ have?

[DavisH]

So what power SHOULD the BRZ have?

Turbo power Costing something like 900K baht in Australia makes it a poor buy here unfortunately. I'd rather dig up a used 3.5 v6 accord....or nissan 370Z for more cash.

[casualbiker]

^^ I meant 220hp, 240hp etc. It currently runs at 200hp to get under the import tax rate.. There are exhaust and chip sets that can boost it to about 230hp for ??? ( I think about 100k)

What else is available?

[wabbitcnx]

Sorry to but in. I have 4 door gti for sale. 3 yes old 31000 km. Take over finance 33000x 24 months and give me 690000. Done bluefin upgrade gives 250+ hp. Msg me if you would like some fotos

[JaseTheBass]

New Mazda MX3 coming soon, but probably only the 1.5L version rather than the 2.0L. Stupid money compared with a proper country though.

[DavisH]

^^ I meant 220hp, 240hp etc. It currently runs at 200hp to get under the import tax rate.. There are exhaust and chip sets that can boost it to about 230hp for ??? ( I think about 100k)

What else is available?

Missed your posting, I think it's also 200HP in other countries like the US. The chassis can certainly handle more power. Maybe they will stick an sti engine in it later?

[fish fingers]

With the Scirocco make sure you go for a later one with the interior update - it has a nicer steering wheel and more modern looking dash.

The BRZ interior is meant to look like that, spartan and no frills. The Subaru is actually a bit posher inside the its Toyota twin. Personally think the Subaru is a bargain, As the market is so flat and the dealers still can't shift them, I reckon they will knock off 100k

[BKKBike09]

OP - finding myself with a similar dilemma. I want to get something a bit more exciting than my CRV (great car in many ways but should be supplied with pipe and slippers). I quite like the Benz CLA 250 AMG; apparently, according to Benz Thonglor, it's now going to be made here and hence price will come down, later this year, to somewhere around 2.4M. But I'm tall and it's pretty cramped, plus also I don't think I could stand to look all day at that dreadful 'afterthought' LCD screen in the centre of the dash ...

I'd really like a manual WRX but 2.64M is a stupid price for it. Why they couldn't / wouldn't drop the price like they did with XV/BRZ I don't know. It's not like it sells well. I think the BRZ looks great but it's just not quick enough in stock.

So currently thinking that I may just go for a 2-3 year old Scirocco 2.0 TSI. There seem to be a reasonable number around and 90% of my driving is in BKK so may be the best/simplest option.