British tourist reportedly raped in Kanchanaburi

[lemonjelly]

You're saying that teaching young girls to avoid these situations is not an essential part of parenting ? Are you mad?

So telling girls "you have a vagina and you have to be careful of retards with penises "just because"" is better than telling boys "do not take out your penis and show it to people without them wanting to see it and never ever touch a girl who doesn't want to be touched oh and raping girls is bad. Very bad mmmmkaaay"?

Maybe time to update your archaic views and realize that girls are equal to men and men have no rights whatsoever to control women (once again excluding many muslim nations).

Of course, telling young men to respect women is also an essential part of parenting, but no right minded parent of a daughter is going to stop teaching their daughters how to avoid these situations on the premise that all the other parents have taught their sons how to behave properly and those sons will comply. Again, another 'PC' poster living in a fantasy whose ideas would put a young girl at risk.

[boomerangutang]

Poor lass, so drunk that she lost her common sense. Of course, getting a lift with some random Thai teenagers in that state was really daft; is she to blame?... yes.

It may not be a 'PC' thing to say, but if being 'PC' means not being able to tell your daughters that it's bloody stupid to go out, get drunk and then get a lift with some random guy then I'll happily be non 'PC' on this one.

Make you feel good coming out with the piece of foulness does it?

So you think a young lass getting drunk and then getting a lift with a random guy, especially in Thailand, isn't being stupid? Get real.

People get drunk and stupid every day, in thousands of places ww. That is not an excuse to rape. If someone gives you the finger in a bar, does that justify you taking a ball peen hammer and crushing the guy's skull?

Among other things, the girl getting raped shows that parts of Thailand are not safe. It shows there are predator men out there. The result: less people will come to vacation here, and people will act less carefree. It will become more like Syria, where danger lurks around every corner, and no one even ventures to dance or sing, trust or frolic.

[SoiBiker]

Thailand is turning into Syria?

Best overreaction ever.

[Yunla]

Walking around alone at night anywhere in the world carries certain risks, you might get attacked if you are male or female. This is common sense and people know this. The question is not "should somebody walk around alone at night after a few beers" but how can a government make areas safer, especially around popular tourist resorts, where people are on holiday ; definition they are relaxing and letting their guard down along with their hair. The danger of all this "she should know better" stuff is that we are ceding control of those areas to criminals, we are accepting the tourist-friendly areas are 'no-go zones' at 1 a.m. or if you are alone or had a few beers etc.

While there will always be gang-controlled slum areas allover the world, which are accepted as no-go for tourists, there should not be no-go zones in tourist areas where there are convenience stores that encourage late-night tourist business. In England for example, in recent years there have been moves to make pavement areas more brightly lit, the police will now stop and check groups of young men who hang around at night, and request that they move on to a club or go home. The idea behind that is to make the streets brighter, clearer and safer for people to walk to the 7-11 or walk to the taxi areas. The point is that it is the task of government to work hard to keep the main public or tourist areas safe for law-abiding citizens, if those citizens have had a few drinks or not. Increased lighting, increased police presence, and most importantly properly-trained officers who dutifully follow the same laws they're paid to enforce.

This is the kind of practical government action that is needed, not this wikipedia links tennis match, with random partisan academics saying that rape isn't an act of violence. Those are the same academic bracket who have tried to normalise the idea of rape as an extension of natural behaviour, and to say that rapists are just too manly and just need counselling and to meet the right kind of wife etc. I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with any of those quackademics any day or night, I can offer large empirical data, direct research on real events and real interviews with unrepentant rapists who will never stop and they do it because they like to hurt women. The only way to stop them is lock them up, and to stop ceding control of popular citizen-areas to lawless brutes.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Yunla

[impulse]

Walking around alone at night anywhere in the world carries certain risks, you might get attacked if you are male or female. This is common sense and people know this. The question is not "should somebody walk around alone at night after a few beers" but how can a government make areas safer, especially around popular tourist resorts, where people are on holiday ; definition they are relaxing and letting their guard down along with their hair. The danger of all this "she should know better" stuff is that we are ceding control of those areas to criminals, we are accepting the tourist-friendly areas are 'no-go zones' at 1 a.m. or if you are alone or had a few beers etc.

While there will always be gang-controlled slum areas allover the world, which are accepted as no-go for tourists, there should not be no-go zones in tourist areas where there are convenience stores that encourage late-night tourist business. In England for example, in recent years there have been moves to make pavement areas more brightly lit, the police will now stop and check groups of young men who hang around at night, and request that they move on to a club or go home. The idea behind that is to make the streets brighter, clearer and safer for people to walk to the 7-11 or walk to the taxi areas. The point is that it is the task of government to work hard to keep the main public or tourist areas safe for law-abiding citizens, if those citizens have had a few drinks or not. Increased lighting, increased police presence, and most importantly properly-trained officers who dutifully follow the same laws they're paid to enforce.

This is the kind of practical government action that is needed, not this wikipedia links tennis match, with random partisan academics saying that rape isn't an act of violence. Those are the same academic bracket who have tried to normalise the idea of rape as an extension of natural behaviour, and to say that rapists are just too manly and just need counselling and to meet the right kind of wife etc. I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with any of those quackademics any day or night, I can offer large empirical data, direct research on real events and real interviews with unrepentant rapists who will never stop and they do it because they like to hurt women. The only way to stop them is lock them up, and to stop ceding control of popular citizen-areas to lawless brutes.

As a courtesy, I left your entire post here. Most of it, I agree.

I only disagree in that nobody has conceded K-Buri's tourist strip as a no-go zone after 1:00 AM. Lots of people enjoy that area in the wee hours.

But the buddy system is always a prudent policy in any unfamiliar territory, 24 hours a day. There is some validity to the old fashioned safety in numbers. (And the reason I contend it's more dangerous at night is because many good people who would normally be keeping an eye on their neighborhood- are sleeping. So the numbers aren't as good at night)

[Neeranam]

Is it really more dangerous here than where they live?

There is a lot higher crime in Edinburgh than here.

A particular nasty crime was committed which gets the guys in Nana plaza falling off their bar stools whilst abusing poor uneducated desperate farm girls from Isarn. It kinda raises their self-esteem to shout at the rapists.

Oh aye, gun carrying and crime a plenty in drizzly Edinburgh eh! Can hire a neighbour or tech college acquaintance any time of the day and cheaply to bump of the <deleted> shagging your wife an all! People going missing all the time due to pissing off the wrong person etc etc. Loss of face = loss of life on a regular and random basis. Nevermind the violence and rapes that go unreported every day of the week across the country for obvious reasons.

A bunch of drunks kicking the <deleted> out of each other at the weekend does not come close to what goes on in Thailand in any way, shape or form mate.

I guarantee you that Thailand is much safer to walk the streets at any time of day than where I come from. Nothing to do with the weather and less of the 'mate'

In over 20 years, with many years walking the streets late at night I've seen very little violence, compared to the everyday violence and drugs in Edinburgh and Leith.

You sound like an Englishman - try walking into a pub in Leith by yourself. Any other foreigner would get a hard time but especially someone with your attitude.

[hawker9000]

Is it really more dangerous here than where they live?

There is a lot higher crime in Edinburgh than here.

A particular nasty crime was committed which gets the guys in Nana plaza falling off their bar stools whilst abusing poor uneducated desperate farm girls from Isarn. It kinda raises their self-esteem to shout at the rapists.

Oh aye, gun carrying and crime a plenty in drizzly Edinburgh eh! Can hire a neighbour or tech college acquaintance any time of the day and cheaply to bump of the <deleted> shagging your wife an all! People going missing all the time due to pissing off the wrong person etc etc. Loss of face = loss of life on a regular and random basis. Nevermind the violence and rapes that go unreported every day of the week across the country for obvious reasons.

A bunch of drunks kicking the <deleted> out of each other at the weekend does not come close to what goes on in Thailand in any way, shape or form mate.

I guarantee you that Thailand is much safer to walk the streets at any time of day than where I come from. Nothing to do with the weather and less of the 'mate'

In over 20 years, with many years walking the streets late at night I've seen very little violence, compared to the everyday violence and drugs in Edinburgh and Leith.

You sound like an Englishman - try walking into a pub in Leith by yourself. Any other foreigner would get a hard time but especially someone with your attitude.

And this is even remotely relevant how? Is anyone here planning a vacation (or retirement) to Leith? Anyone? No? I didn't think so. I guess they're all busy at leithvisa.com. Edited May 31, 2015 by hawker9000

[Asheron]

You're saying that teaching young girls to avoid these situations is not an essential part of parenting ? Are you mad?

So telling girls "you have a vagina and you have to be careful of retards with penises "just because"" is better than telling boys "do not take out your penis and show it to people without them wanting to see it and never ever touch a girl who doesn't want to be touched oh and raping girls is bad. Very bad mmmmkaaay"?

Maybe time to update your archaic views and realize that girls are equal to men and men have no rights whatsoever to control women (once again excluding many muslim nations).

Of course, telling young men to respect women is also an essential part of parenting, but no right minded parent of a daughter is going to stop teaching their daughters how to avoid these situations on the premise that all the other parents have taught their sons how to behave properly and those sons will comply. Again, another 'PC' poster living in a fantasy whose ideas would put a young girl at risk.

No, my post was very much "anti-PC" because i''m actually putting the blame on the part that are doing the rapes and not the victims (as many are in this thread). If i was actually to teach my daughter to avoid "dangerous" situations i would tell her (if we lived in Sweden) to never ever have anything to do with Middle Eastern men as they are way way way overrepresented when it comes to gang rapes or rapes* in Sweden. There is for instance an epidemic in swedish schools where blond girls are called "svennehora" (swedish wh*r*) and you can just by that word figure out who are actually calling blond girls such vile things right?

*about five times according to latest SCB statistics. But they stopped publishing those after outcries of "wwwwhhaaaaaacissm".

[Yunla]

As a courtesy, I left your entire post here. Most of it, I agree.

I only disagree in that nobody has conceded K-Buri's tourist strip as a no-go zone after 1:00 AM. Lots of people enjoy that area in the wee hours.

But the buddy system is always a prudent policy in any unfamiliar territory, 24 hours a day. There is some validity to the old fashioned safety in numbers. (And the reason I contend it's more dangerous at night is because many good people who would normally be keeping an eye on their neighborhood- are sleeping. So the numbers aren't as good at night)

Thankyou for your reply. I agree that some areas are not considered no-go or advertised as such, but clearly if there is a gang-rape attack on a victim who was going to the shop, it would say to me that not enough police were patrolling that area.

I often relate how things are done in England, and this is not because I think Thailand has the same social bedrock in place, but simply as an example of the changing trends in other nations. My experience in the old and new Leeds, 1970s~today, have shown great changes. The newly gentrified city and suburbs, are extremely well lit. I would occasionally go strolling to the shop at night in recent years, and its lit up like the starship enterprise control room. In terms of police presence, I would see police cars every few minutes, and they weren't just driving, they were checking everybody out as they cruised by. I have to say, those streets were both dark and dangerous, and not policed enough, in the 70s~90s. But now I feel safe to walk them alone at night if I need something from the 7-11.

On having a buddy with you, of course it is always safer to be in groups. I question how much safer two girls would be against a gang of young men though. Also maybe you are on holiday alone, you have no buddy with you, and you need something from the local shop. If the area is well-lit and well-policed, you can stroll out there alone and feel much safer doing so.

[Asheron]

Walking around alone at night anywhere in the world carries certain risks, you might get attacked if you are male or female. This is common sense and people know this. The question is not "should somebody walk around alone at night after a few beers" but how can a government make areas safer, especially around popular tourist resorts, where people are on holiday ; definition they are relaxing and letting their guard down along with their hair. The danger of all this "she should know better" stuff is that we are ceding control of those areas to criminals, we are accepting the tourist-friendly areas are 'no-go zones' at 1 a.m. or if you are alone or had a few beers etc.

While there will always be gang-controlled slum areas allover the world, which are accepted as no-go for tourists, there should not be no-go zones in tourist areas where there are convenience stores that encourage late-night tourist business. In England for example, in recent years there have been moves to make pavement areas more brightly lit, the police will now stop and check groups of young men who hang around at night, and request that they move on to a club or go home. The idea behind that is to make the streets brighter, clearer and safer for people to walk to the 7-11 or walk to the taxi areas. The point is that it is the task of government to work hard to keep the main public or tourist areas safe for law-abiding citizens, if those citizens have had a few drinks or not. Increased lighting, increased police presence, and most importantly properly-trained officers who dutifully follow the same laws they're paid to enforce.

This is the kind of practical government action that is needed, not this wikipedia links tennis match, with random partisan academics saying that rape isn't an act of violence. Those are the same academic bracket who have tried to normalise the idea of rape as an extension of natural behaviour, and to say that rapists are just too manly and just need counselling and to meet the right kind of wife etc. I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with any of those quackademics any day or night, I can offer large empirical data, direct research on real events and real interviews with unrepentant rapists who will never stop and they do it because they like to hurt women. The only way to stop them is lock them up, and to stop ceding control of popular citizen-areas to lawless brutes.

The issue i personally have with "police randomly stopping people" is that i do not like the idea of a quasi police state (papieren bitte! comes to mind). Infringements on freedom doesn't happen "overnight", it happens very slowly and gradually.

I think that it's impossible to eliminate crime and especially the worst crimes such as harming other human beings so my solution for that would be atleast 30 years prison without parole for rape, driving while drunk and killing someone 50 years, driving while drunk and hurting someone 30 years, murder or ordering a murder would be death sentence and so on. Of course all who were sentenced to prison would have to do penal labour (if they refuse an automatic 20 extra years in prison). And a public searchable Internet site where all crimes that lead to prison and a picture of the criminal as well as name, address and so on. Deny the prisoners to vote in elections and a block on them getting a passport up to 5 years after they were released from prison. And a "three strikes and life sentence" wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[MaeJoMTB]

Is it really more dangerous here than where they live?

Sort of depends where they come from,

If they live in my previous Cornish village Yes

If they live in Detroit no

[MaeJoMTB]

No it's not, however what is essential is to tell boys that they treat girls well and leave girls the f*** alone if the girls don't want anything to do with them and never hit nor touch girls inapropriatelly.

The single person in charge of this country says, girls in bikinis deserve all they get.

Generally the BiB seem to feel it's OK to hit a girl, if she deserves it.

So I don't think Thai culture, Thai law and Thai parenting is really gonna help here.

Your culture and the tourists culture and laws don't apply in Thailand,

And if they aren't prepared to adapt to life here, maybe they should just stay in their own country where they can be safe (maybe).

Edited May 31, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Asheron]

No it's not, however what is essential is to tell boys that they treat girls well and leave girls the f*** alone if the girls don't want anything to do with them and never hit nor touch girls inapropriatelly.

The single person in charge of this country says, girls in bikinis deserve all they get.

Generally the BiB seem to feel it's OK to hit a girl, if she deserves it.

So I don't think Thai culture, Thai law and Thai parenting is really gonna help here.

Your culture and the tourists culture and laws don't apply in Thailand,

And if they aren't prepared to adapt to life here, maybe they should just stay in their own country where they can be safe (maybe).

Maybe i'm dreaming in "la-la-land" but it should be a goal for all humanity to embrace the fact that boys and girls are "created" equal and that girls have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as boys. But i realize that it's pretty much a pipe dream... unfortunately.

Some cultures just are superior to other cultures but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

[Luang]

Is it really more dangerous here than where they live?

There is a lot higher crime in Edinburgh than here.

A particular nasty crime was committed which gets the guys in Nana plaza falling off their bar stools whilst abusing poor uneducated desperate farm girls from Isarn. It kinda raises their self-esteem to shout at the rapists.

Oh aye, gun carrying and crime a plenty in drizzly Edinburgh eh! Can hire a neighbour or tech college acquaintance any time of the day and cheaply to bump of the <deleted> shagging your wife an all! People going missing all the time due to pissing off the wrong person etc etc. Loss of face = loss of life on a regular and random basis. Nevermind the violence and rapes that go unreported every day of the week across the country for obvious reasons.

A bunch of drunks kicking the <deleted> out of each other at the weekend does not come close to what goes on in Thailand in any way, shape or form mate.

I guarantee you that Thailand is much safer to walk the streets at any time of day than where I come from. Nothing to do with the weather and less of the 'mate'

In over 20 years, with many years walking the streets late at night I've seen very little violence, compared to the everyday violence and drugs in Edinburgh and Leith.

You sound like an Englishman - try walking into a pub in Leith by yourself. Any other foreigner would get a hard time but especially someone with your attitude.

So mate, you're saying Leith is a racist, drug-filled, alcohol soaked hole? I'll bear that im mind when thinking of my next holiday destination. Cheers!

[MaeJoMTB]

Maybe i'm dreaming in "la-la-land" but it should be a goal for all humanity to embrace the fact that boys and girls are "created" equal and that girls have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as boys. But i realize that it's pretty much a pipe dream... unfortunately.

Some cultures just are superior to other cultures but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

Protestant Christian ideas,

Buddhists and Muslims and Jews and Hindus certainly don't agree that male/female are equal, and they make up most of the world.

Not sure Catholics do either ....... original sin and all that.

Claiming you have the right to choose the aspirations of the rest of humanity, is a little at odds with your posted views.

You can't have it both ways, you're in the minority, but want to tell the majority of humanity what to do, that's a very slippery slope.

Edited May 31, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[gemguy]

OK...and here is some more fuel added to the fire.

The girl has reported that she has been raped.

What is rape? ...such that rape is defined as a particular crime resulting in punishment laid upon the person or persons having perpetrated and committed the alleged rape.

We do not know exactly what she reported to the police.....nor what she reported is not exaggerated or falsified by the girl.

Meantime the alleged rapists and those persons accused by her as being rapists will argue that it was consensual sex....or no sex at all happened

If there is no physical damage or harm done to her body or face or head, to be recorded or photographed as evidence, then is this a case of rape as defined by law.....or, at the least, physical assault ..as defined by the law.

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

If she says that she said NO, once or repeatedly to the alleged perpetrators of her demise they can easily argue she said nothing of the sort during their brief interlude and for that matter how do we or anyone know that is not the truth.

I have no doubt that something went wrong to the point that the girl needed to go to the police and inform them of what had occurred while police records and photos and hospital records and reports and photos are needed to confirm that rape did occur and needed to sustain the case and bring to justice those that did commit rape ...as defined by the law....and not just allegations.

By no means am I taking sides with any particular party ...but this is the grim reality of what has to be taken into consideration when there are no witnesses or no solid evidence confirming the altercation was indeed a clear case of rape...as defined by law.

If it was rape and can be proven...then I hope the perpetrator(s) spend several years in jail for their opportunistic, poor judgment........ just to get laid and have some deranged sexual fun.

Cheers

Edited May 31, 2015 by gemguy

[impulse]

As a courtesy, I left your entire post here. Most of it, I agree.

I only disagree in that nobody has conceded K-Buri's tourist strip as a no-go zone after 1:00 AM. Lots of people enjoy that area in the wee hours.

But the buddy system is always a prudent policy in any unfamiliar territory, 24 hours a day. There is some validity to the old fashioned safety in numbers. (And the reason I contend it's more dangerous at night is because many good people who would normally be keeping an eye on their neighborhood- are sleeping. So the numbers aren't as good at night)

Thankyou for your reply. I agree that some areas are not considered no-go or advertised as such, but clearly if there is a gang-rape attack on a victim who was going to the shop, it would say to me that not enough police were patrolling that area.

I often relate how things are done in England, and this is not because I think Thailand has the same social bedrock in place, but simply as an example of the changing trends in other nations. My experience in the old and new Leeds, 1970s~today, have shown great changes. The newly gentrified city and suburbs, are extremely well lit. I would occasionally go strolling to the shop at night in recent years, and its lit up like the starship enterprise control room. In terms of police presence, I would see police cars every few minutes, and they weren't just driving, they were checking everybody out as they cruised by. I have to say, those streets were both dark and dangerous, and not policed enough, in the 70s~90s. But now I feel safe to walk them alone at night if I need something from the 7-11.

On having a buddy with you, of course it is always safer to be in groups. I question how much safer two girls would be against a gang of young men though. Also maybe you are on holiday alone, you have no buddy with you, and you need something from the local shop. If the area is well-lit and well-policed, you can stroll out there alone and feel much safer doing so.

If the area is well-lit and well-policed, you can stroll out there alone and feel much safer doing so.

But that's the siren song that lulls tourists into letting their guard down in the very areas they're most at risk. It's well lit. It's popular in the blogs. There's lots of people milling about. They're all having a good time. Surely the cops are here in force, even if I don't see any. I'm on holiday, damn it. It's only 200 meters to the store... And that's where the bag snatchers and pickpockets and muggers and rapists find easy pickings- the anonymity of the crowd, and the natural resistance that people on holiday have to butting into an interaction that looks to them as if it's a domestic squabble. Not to mention the percentage of the crowd that's bombed out of their gourds around that time of night.

Just 'cause you feel safer, doesn't mean you are. Especially if you don't have some personal history in the area.

[MaeJoMTB]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

[Ned]

Slightly off topic I know but I saw a couple of articles in Thai press this week about gun violence against some farang.

A 64 yr old Austrian guy driving in Surat with his wife was shot twice, one in each arm by a motorcyclist. Apparently the farang appeared to be a "hot headed type."

The second victim was an Australian bloke who was eating at a restaurant with a woman. Seems that the woman's ex husband hired a gunman to shoot the farang who ,the article reported was in a serious condition in hospital.

Thai rape victims are often (usually) brutally killed as well.......At least according to the Thai papers which are full of violent crime and accident reports.

[Neeranam]

I guarantee you that Thailand is much safer to walk the streets at any time of day than where I come from. Nothing to do with the weather and less of the 'mate'

Is it really more dangerous here than where they live?

There is a lot higher crime in Edinburgh than here.

A particular nasty crime was committed which gets the guys in Nana plaza falling off their bar stools whilst abusing poor uneducated desperate farm girls from Isarn. It kinda raises their self-esteem to shout at the rapists.

Oh aye, gun carrying and crime a plenty in drizzly Edinburgh eh! Can hire a neighbour or tech college acquaintance any time of the day and cheaply to bump of the <deleted> shagging your wife an all! People going missing all the time due to pissing off the wrong person etc etc. Loss of face = loss of life on a regular and random basis. Nevermind the violence and rapes that go unreported every day of the week across the country for obvious reasons.

A bunch of drunks kicking the <deleted> out of each other at the weekend does not come close to what goes on in Thailand in any way, shape or form mate.

In over 20 years, with many years walking the streets late at night I've seen very little violence, compared to the everyday violence and drugs in Edinburgh and Leith.

You sound like an Englishman - try walking into a pub in Leith by yourself. Any other foreigner would get a hard time but especially someone with your attitude.

So mate, you're saying Leith is a racist, drug-filled, alcohol soaked hole? I'll bear that im mind when thinking of my next holiday destination. Cheers!

For the second time I am not your 'mate'.

You're welcome re the holiday advice. Yes it is a horrible dangerous place Leith and many parts of Edinburgh but that's not the point - the point is that Thailand is much safer for tourists.

Where are you from? Which part of Thailand do you live and for how long have you lived here? If you're from Melbourne and live in Pattaya, you may have a point.

[Neeranam]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

Really - so when catted up by drunk women one must say no or be a rapist?

[gemguy]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

I do not disagree in principle

However, by definition, if a couple are having sex and it turns very physical and or aggressive then is that occurrence defined as rape ...and or, if during the course of the sexual interlude either party says NO to any particular aspect of the ongoing sexual interlude occurring between the 2 or more consensual adults.

If that be the case then any man could accuse his wife or the wife accuse the husband of non consensual sex if the man or the women did not stop doing what the other person disagreed with or said No to....before or during the sexual interlude....and claim as such that is what happened ....after the sexual interlude.

If that be the case, I guess I should sue my wife multiple times because, by definition, she has raped me many times when I said: "No...not tonight honey"...but she still had her way with me.

Most people envision a brutally forced altercation and very aggressive physical assault upon another person perpetrated by a stranger upon another with the intent of sexual gratification as the end means of the physically violent altercation.

Without the sexual aspect of the altercation then it is considered as common physical assault....and not rape.

Before you answer...as I had said before...you have to define rape while you also have to prove it occurred ...as you state it did occur ( as in sworn testimony ) while the onus to prove it did occur is on the person accusing the alleged perpetrator(s)

Cheers

[Neeranam]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

I do not disagree in principle

However, by definition, if a couple are having sex and it turns very physical and or aggressive then is that occurrence defined as rape ...and or, if during the course of the sexual interlude either party says NO to any particular aspect of the ongoing sexual interlude occurring between the 2 or more consensual adults.

If that be the case then any man could accuse his wife or the wife accuse the husband of non consensual sex if the man or the women did not stop doing what the other person disagreed with or said No to....before or during the sexual interlude....and claim as such that is what happened ....after the sexual interlude.

If that be the case, I guess I should sue my wife multiple times because, by definition, she has raped me many times when I said: "No...not tonight honey"...but she still had her way with me.

Most people envision a brutally forced altercation and very aggressive physical assault upon another person perpetrated by a stranger upon another with the intent of sexual gratification as the end means of the physically violent altercation.

Without the sexual aspect of the altercation then it is considered as common physical assault....and not rape.

Before you answer...as I had said before...you have to define rape while you also have to prove it occurred ...as you state it did occur ( as in sworn testimony ) while the onus to prove it did occur is on the person accusing the alleged perpetrator(s)

Cheers

I wouldn't sue her but seek some professional help. I can understand once and giving her a second chance but MULTIPLE times? I'd get a divorce.

[gemguy]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

I do not disagree in principle

However, by definition, if a couple are having sex and it turns very physical and or aggressive then is that occurrence defined as rape ...and or, if during the course of the sexual interlude either party says NO to any particular aspect of the ongoing sexual interlude occurring between the 2 or more consensual adults.

If that be the case then any man could accuse his wife or the wife accuse the husband of non consensual sex if the man or the women did not stop doing what the other person disagreed with or said No to....before or during the sexual interlude....and claim as such that is what happened ....after the sexual interlude.

If that be the case, I guess I should sue my wife multiple times because, by definition, she has raped me many times when I said: "No...not tonight honey"...but she still had her way with me.

Most people envision a brutally forced altercation and very aggressive physical assault upon another person perpetrated by a stranger upon another with the intent of sexual gratification as the end means of the physically violent altercation.

Without the sexual aspect of the altercation then it is considered as common physical assault....and not rape.

Before you answer...as I had said before...you have to define rape while you also have to prove it occurred ...as you state it did occur ( as in sworn testimony ) while the onus to prove it did occur is on the person accusing the alleged perpetrator(s)

Cheers

I wouldn't sue her but seek some professional help. I can understand once and giving her a second chance but MULTIPLE times? I'd get a divorce.

Ha ha...your funny...but you may not realize it.

The end result of her sexual advances are more than welcome...lol

I was providing an example of a common occurrence between couples world wide where either one of them is in the mood for sex while one of them is not in the mood for sex...but.... they end up having sex anyhow as their sexual based interlude evolves and progresses to the point of copulation.

So next time your Wife or GF or Lover says NO......in any manner...and you do not heed what they said...then you are now considered a rapist...by many peoples definition of what rape is.

First define what rape is...in the utmost legal sense.

Cheers

Edited May 31, 2015 by gemguy

[Sawan Chan 7]

Of course I do not blame the victim, but seriously, why do teenage tourists think getting drunk in a 3rd world country and wandering around like it's Disney World. Most Thai people have little and nothing to lose, they are not governed by the same controls found in the Nanny states. Tourist need to relaize that coming here and getting drunk and stoned and taking chances is not a good idea. I hope the catch the rapist and throw away the key, but of course, they will likely get 3 yrs, and then only if they are over 18.

You just did blame the victim.

Why do holiday makers think they can wear a bikini in when on holiday.

Why did the man have his money in his pocket when he was drinking.

Why did the girl smile and chat with the taxi driver.

It is your attitude that continues to give excuses to violent behaviour.

She is on holiday. She went out for drinks. She walked back to her hotel. She chatted to some friendly motorcycle guys. As you chat with friendly girls.

Maybe they offered her a ride back to the hotel.

She did nothing wrong.

This government needs to step up punishment of offences against foreigners.especially crimes of rape and violence. Nobody cares about a bag snatch or a scam here and there for a few hundred baht. The violence against foreigners in this country is the worst in the entire world.

Nonsense. It was the girls stupidity that was to blame.

Can you blame a tiger for killing a tourist that walks into its cage?

That is without a shred of doubt the most stupid, insensitive and abhorrent piece of trash I have ever read on a public forum. What nationality are you? I could take an educated guess but of course you haven't the integrity to share that truth. Please, share your beliefs with ALL of your female family members and friends, they deserve to know what you are!

I am English - is that your guess? Don't talk to me about integrity. Just because you disagree there is no need to have this tone.

[Asheron]

Maybe i'm dreaming in "la-la-land" but it should be a goal for all humanity to embrace the fact that boys and girls are "created" equal and that girls have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as boys. But i realize that it's pretty much a pipe dream... unfortunately.

Some cultures just are superior to other cultures but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

Protestant Christian ideas,

Buddhists and Muslims and Jews and Hindus certainly don't agree that male/female are equal, and they make up most of the world.

Not sure Catholics do either ....... original sin and all that.

Claiming you have the right to choose the aspirations of the rest of humanity, is a little at odds with your posted views.

You can't have it both ways, you're in the minority, but want to tell the majority of humanity what to do, that's a very slippery slope.

I never claimed that i have any right to choose anything for the rest of the humanity, i said "should" but i do have the right to wish that people did have other views. If some people want to view women as lesser human beings, "fine", they can do that but they can expect normal humans with normal brains to ridicule them and tell them to stop acting "challenged".

[Bluespunk]

OK...and here is some more fuel added to the fire.

The girl has reported that she has been raped.

What is rape? ...such that rape is defined as a particular crime resulting in punishment laid upon the person or persons having perpetrated and committed the alleged rape.

We do not know exactly what she reported to the police.....nor what she reported is not exaggerated or falsified by the girl.

Meantime the alleged rapists and those persons accused by her as being rapists will argue that it was consensual sex....or no sex at all happened

If there is no physical damage or harm done to her body or face or head, to be recorded or photographed as evidence, then is this a case of rape as defined by law.....or, at the least, physical assault ..as defined by the law.

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

If she says that she said NO, once or repeatedly to the alleged perpetrators of her demise they can easily argue she said nothing of the sort during their brief interlude and for that matter how do we or anyone know that is not the truth.

I have no doubt that something went wrong to the point that the girl needed to go to the police and inform them of what had occurred while police records and photos and hospital records and reports and photos are needed to confirm that rape did occur and needed to sustain the case and bring to justice those that did commit rape ...as defined by the law....and not just allegations.

By no means am I taking sides with any particular party ...but this is the grim reality of what has to be taken into consideration when there are no witnesses or no solid evidence confirming the altercation was indeed a clear case of rape...as defined by law.

If it was rape and can be proven...then I hope the perpetrator(s) spend several years in jail for their opportunistic, poor judgment........ just to get laid and have some deranged sexual fun.

Cheers

Sickening and vile post. Edited May 31, 2015 by Bluespunk

[duanebigsby]

Can you blame a tiger for killing a tourist that walks into its cage?[/b]

That is without a shred of doubt the most stupid, insensitive and abhorrent piece of trash I have ever read on a public forum. What nationality are you? I could take an educated guess but of course you haven't the integrity to share that truth. Please, share your beliefs with ALL of your female family members and friends, they deserve to know what you are!

I am English - is that your guess? Don't talk to me about integrity. Just because you disagree there is no need to have this tone.

You are a misogynistic piece of work for sure and the tone is appropriate.

I don't care about your nationality, but your "she was asking for it" attitude is totally out of line.

[MaeJoMTB]

Maybe i'm dreaming in "la-la-land" but it should be a goal for all humanity to embrace the fact that boys and girls are "created" equal and that girls have exactly the same rights and responsibilities as boys. But i realize that it's pretty much a pipe dream... unfortunately.

Some cultures just are superior to other cultures but there isn't anything anyone can do about that.

Protestant Christian ideas,

Buddhists and Muslims and Jews and Hindus certainly don't agree that male/female are equal, and they make up most of the world.

Not sure Catholics do either ....... original sin and all that.

Claiming you have the right to choose the aspirations of the rest of humanity, is a little at odds with your posted views.

You can't have it both ways, you're in the minority, but want to tell the majority of humanity what to do, that's a very slippery slope.

I never claimed that i have any right to choose anything for the rest of the humanity, i said "should" but i do have the right to wish that people did have other views. If some people want to view women as lesser human beings, "fine", they can do that but they can expect normal humans with normal brains to ridicule them and tell them to stop acting "challenged".

There you go again,

Normality is judged by the views of the majority.

The majority in the world consider women to be '2nd rate citizens' therefore that must be what is normal (rightly or wrongly).

[Yunla]

Drunken sex that gets out of hand and physically overwhelming is not by definition rape.

Actually it is rape, most western countries insist on informed consent.

If she was drunk, she can't provide that = rape.

Don't matter if she said yes or no.

I do not disagree in principle

However, by definition, if a couple are having sex and it turns very physical and or aggressive then is that occurrence defined as rape ...and or, if during the course of the sexual interlude either party says NO to any particular aspect of the ongoing sexual interlude occurring between the 2 or more consensual adults.

If that be the case then any man could accuse his wife or the wife accuse the husband of non consensual sex if the man or the women did not stop doing what the other person disagreed with or said No to....before or during the sexual interlude....and claim as such that is what happened ....after the sexual interlude.

If that be the case, I guess I should sue my wife multiple times because, by definition, she has raped me many times when I said: "No...not tonight honey"...but she still had her way with me.

Most people envision a brutally forced altercation and very aggressive physical assault upon another person perpetrated by a stranger upon another with the intent of sexual gratification as the end means of the physically violent altercation.

Without the sexual aspect of the altercation then it is considered as common physical assault....and not rape.

Before you answer...as I had said before...you have to define rape while you also have to prove it occurred ...as you state it did occur ( as in sworn testimony ) while the onus to prove it did occur is on the person accusing the alleged perpetrator(s)

Cheers

Your theory relies on one major assumption, which is that she paid cash money for air-tickets and hotels and then she made the extremely long flight over here, and then just as her holiday was getting started, she decided to cancel the whole paradise holiday thing, and instead go about elaborately framing some local lads on a rape charge.

Rape is a life-shattering event, some people are able to slowly rebuild their outgoing persona, but for most people it will change their personality forever, and for some people it destroys their future lives entirely. We should be careful when discussing maybes on this issue.

You are right in one sense, which is that there certainly are false rape allegations, often used for monetary gain when targeting celebrities etc. And that the police do have a tough job deciding on the true story between conflicting accounts of rape/consent. However these type of borderline incidents are more common in date situations, where there is only the couple present, and normal drinking and socialising have occurred in the dating couple scenario prior to the alleged attack. Gang rapes on the street are completely different, the chances of it being consenting are basically nil.