nabbie Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Hi, I am quite the idiot with water pumping issues so can anyone kindly advise me on this enquiry? Due to the recent city water problem, I usually fill the water in the bath tube as emergency use. It is quite content and the enhanced water tank with large water pump is not necessary for a small house. The shower is the problem. It is obviously affected by the low supply water supply from city water - sometimes no water or a very little water. Hence, how can I pump the water from the bath tube to the shower unit about 5 feet height? Do I need the water pump? If so, what type of it should I seek for? Any suggestions will be most welcome. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Unless you are actually your avatar and do not mind dirty water it might be best to buy a storage tank and water pump as most homes use to obtain adequate pressure. Or take the normal Thai ladel shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Unless you are actually your avatar and do not mind dirty water it might be best to buy a storage tank and water pump as most homes use to obtain adequate pressure. Or take the normal Thai ladel shower. Sorry, I prefer the shower unit with hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 All the more reason to have tank/pump - hot water heaters do not work well with most public water pressure range service. The storage tank does not have to be large but there must be one - and the pump does not have to be powerful - the most inexpensive unit should work well for single level small home. But yes you could just pump from your tub if willing to shower elsewhere in room and don't mind a serious electric death potential in your bathroom - but you then have to refill all the time - a small tank/float valve extra would be out of sight and take care of everything and all of house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 All the more reason to have tank/pump - hot water heaters do not work well with most public water pressure range service. The storage tank does not have to be large but there must be one - and the pump does not have to be powerful - the most inexpensive unit should work well for single level small home. But yes you could just pump from your tub if willing to shower elsewhere in room and don't mind a serious electric death potential in your bathroom - but you then have to refill all the time - a small tank/float valve extra would be out of sight and take care of everything and all of house. You are very helpful but unfortunately it does not reach my solution yet. In the most common sense, I absolutely agree your explanation especially safety concern. In further details, you can see the attachment showing the water meter is covered surrounding the cement. It would require the huge mess to break the cement and the water tank will have to be located at the opposite side. I have no water problems with kitchen & toilets using the "emergency" water from bath tube except only one shower that needed to be pumped. City water supply is always resumed from mid-night to 6am whenever there is a shortage of the water daily (this usually happen in April/May). It does not make the sense to have both the new tank & the new water pump just to solve one shower issue. The bath tube and the shower unit is about 5 to 7 feet apart. Hence, the inexpensive pump would therefore be better off if the safety can be dealt. What I need is to improvise how to make it safely and to find out what type/model of the water pump with suitable pressure. Thai assistants might not understand this situation so the unexpected tips from this forum might be good start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Actually it is amazingly easy for locals to dig up a water line - but one option might be a 12v DC powered bailing pump - that could be run on either battery or transformer (mounted high) and would be safer in bathroom than electric pump. Not sure how well they would as they are not designed for much pumping height. But really believe you would love the extra water pressure for house and especially any washing machine (would work much faster) with a real house pump/tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Actually it is amazingly easy for locals to dig up a water line - but one option might be a 12v DC powered bailing pump - that could be run on either battery or transformer (mounted high) and would be safer in bathroom than electric pump. Not sure how well they would as they are not designed for much pumping height. But really believe you would love the extra water pressure for house and especially any washing machine (would work much faster) with a real house pump/tank. Yes, I am aware that locals have their amazing hands to get a water line but my water piping is somewhat badly located. It can upset the metal gate, the grind cement slope entrance, the tiles (even the electric post as well) leading to the unforeseen complication if digging up. A 12v DC powered bailing pump is definitely give me something to chew in my mind and I will do my research. Much appreciated your time & have a very good evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Well it seems our OP has already decided upon his solution and is unwilling to heed alternative advice so:- Get the cheapest self-priming, pressure operated water pump you can. Place it outside the bathroom (for electrical safety). Punch a hole through the wall for pickup pipe into your 'bath tube' (whatever that is), run a hose from the pump outlet to your water heater inlet and presto, you're showering. Not elegant but effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLovelace Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 All the more reason to have tank/pump - hot water heaters do not work well with most public water pressure range service. The storage tank does not have to be large but there must be one - and the pump does not have to be powerful - the most inexpensive unit should work well for single level small home. But yes you could just pump from your tub if willing to shower elsewhere in room and don't mind a serious electric death potential in your bathroom - but you then have to refill all the time - a small tank/float valve extra would be out of sight and take care of everything and all of house. You are very helpful but unfortunately it does not reach my solution yet. In the most common sense, I absolutely agree your explanation especially safety concern. In further details, you can see the attachment showing the water meter is covered surrounding the cement. It would require the huge mess to break the cement and the water tank will have to be located at the opposite side. I have no water problems with kitchen & toilets using the "emergency" water from bath tube except only one shower that needed to be pumped. City water supply is always resumed from mid-night to 6am whenever there is a shortage of the water daily (this usually happen in April/May). It does not make the sense to have both the new tank & the new water pump just to solve one shower issue. The bath tube and the shower unit is about 5 to 7 feet apart. Hence, the inexpensive pump would therefore be better off if the safety can be dealt. What I need is to improvise how to make it safely and to find out what type/model of the water pump with suitable pressure. Thai assistants might not understand this situation so the unexpected tips from this forum might be good start with. Well, Lopburi, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well it seems our OP has already decided upon his solution and is unwilling to heed alternative advice so:- Get the cheapest self-priming, pressure operated water pump you can. Place it outside the bathroom (for electrical safety). Punch a hole through the wall for pickup pipe into your 'bath tube' (whatever that is), run a hose from the pump outlet to your water heater inlet and presto, you're showering. Not elegant but effective. LindaLovelace: Lopburi3 did make his heed compromise slightly by providing me the detail of a 12v DC powered bailing pump. So the horse must have licked up the water once or twice. :-) Crossy / Lopburi3: I may have found the perfect solution - see I believe this device called Bilge pump 3500GPH can be obtained at Bewild at Kathu. It does not require the home electric supply but just a small battery box. Does it look great & good for safety as well? Even some funs for Songkran. Oh I forget to mention that the washing machine can be filled with water manually - simply pour the emergency water through the top drawer where the powder is poured down in the case of the water shortage. It works well but need some cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Is there any reason for people to struggle in this day and age with ramshackle set ups in the name of having a hot shower. Reminds me of the diy aircon thread. Edited May 31, 2015 by stoneyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Is there any reason for people to struggle in this day and age with ramshackle set ups in the name of having a hot shower. The crazy thing is that the solutions invariably look bad, function poorly and cost twice as much as the standard solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Is there any reason for people to struggle in this day and age with ramshackle set ups in the name of having a hot shower. The crazy thing is that the solutions invariably look bad, function poorly and cost twice as much as the standard solution. All the while increasing the possibility of causing hurt to yourself or a loved one,we all know the dangers of electrics here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Is there any reason for people to struggle in this day and age with ramshackle set ups in the name of having a hot shower. The crazy thing is that the solutions invariably look bad, function poorly and cost twice as much as the standard solution. All the while increasing the possibility of causing hurt to yourself or a loved one,we all know the dangers of electrics here. And, one can buy a small automatic pump and 500 Litre tank for less than the cost of the bilge pump, battery and battery charger. No need to charge the battery, no danger of the battery being flat when it's time for the weekly shower and it will even fill the washing machine EDIT There is the added advantage that one can use the bath for its intended purpose (storing coal**). ** for Brits only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Actually it is amazingly easy for locals to dig up a water line - but one option might be a 12v DC powered bailing pump - that could be run on either battery or transformer (mounted high) and would be safer in bathroom than electric pump. Not sure how well they would as they are not designed for much pumping height. But really believe you would love the extra water pressure for house and especially any washing machine (would work much faster) with a real house pump/tank. I just bought a 350w Hitachi water pump for a large home. It works wonders and is super quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Why not put a small storage tank i.e. 200 litres complete with float valve in the roof space above the shower, this could be permanently plumbed into your shower, and by using a small 12volt pump you should have enough pressure for a reasonable shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Why not put a small storage tank i.e. 200 litres complete with float valve in the roof space above the shower, this could be permanently plumbed into your shower, and by using a small 12volt pump you should have enough pressure for a reasonable shower. Do you mean a small 12volt pump can pump the city water into the tank from the loft or do I have to buy the separate bigger pump to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 One of these should do the trick,they even have a grease nipple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Why not put a small storage tank i.e. 200 litres complete with float valve in the roof space above the shower, this could be permanently plumbed into your shower, and by using a small 12volt pump you should have enough pressure for a reasonable shower. Do you mean a small 12volt pump can pump the city water into the tank from the loft or do I have to buy the separate bigger pump to do that? The tank in the loft is a storage tank. Normally it will kept full by normal mains water pressure. The float valve is to prevent it overfilling An overflow pipe will be required one size at least larger than the feed pipe. It is probable that you may not be able to get the tank higher than 1 metre above the shower head,in that case you would need a small 12v booster pump on the delivery pipe to the shower. To prevent stale water staying in the tank I would advise ,plumbing into at least one toilet to maintain some flow of water in the tank.Obviously disconnecting that particular toilet from the city mains. This type of system is probably fitted in about 77% of UK homes . A competent diy plumber should be able to accomplish this in a day. Edited June 1, 2015 by sappersrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Google cold water storage tanks uk google images will throw up loads of pics Edited June 1, 2015 by sappersrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But don't forget a full 200L tank weighs about 220kg (200kg for the water). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Crossy is correct you will need a tank stand suitably sized, and a hatch cut in your ceiling, mind you thinking about it just copy post 2 with an external storage tank, thats what I am going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This is not the UK. Walls here do not support. As said this would be a huge amount of weight/feeding trough for vermin just waiting to come crashing down. Not to mention that in many areas you do not have enough water pressure to even fill it without a pump and most homes do not have attics so there would not be anyplace to install. He has ruled out a normal small tank/pump in an easy access (outside) so suspect he would not be into building a new home. But I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabbie Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Why not put a small storage tank i.e. 200 litres complete with float valve in the roof space above the shower, this could be permanently plumbed into your shower, and by using a small 12volt pump you should have enough pressure for a reasonable shower. Do you mean a small 12volt pump can pump the city water into the tank from the loft or do I have to buy the separate bigger pump to do that? The tank in the loft is a storage tank. Normally it will kept full by normal mains water pressure. The float valve is to prevent it overfilling An overflow pipe will be required one size at least larger than the feed pipe. It is probable that you may not be able to get the tank higher than 1 metre above the shower head,in that case you would need a small 12v booster pump on the delivery pipe to the shower. To prevent stale water staying in the tank I would advise ,plumbing into at least one toilet to maintain some flow of water in the tank.Obviously disconnecting that particular toilet from the city mains. This type of system is probably fitted in about 77% of UK homes . A competent diy plumber should be able to accomplish this in a day. I find this explanation very helpful and thanks for your kind patience & time. And I am currently reinforcing my understanding on this new water issue. So the competent plumber will be the best to take over my inexperience work and for time being I wonder where to get the contact with fair cost. I do have good large space in the loft (with lots of cobwebs ) and the ceiling is soft. My loft entrance is about 2 feet square. So I will find out if the 200L storage tank can be loaded into that. The tank can be located on between two structured steel. So the requirement must be good if the plumber can agree that. Therefore I hope this will be straightforward to fix within a same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneyboy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Why not put a small storage tank i.e. 200 litres complete with float valve in the roof space above the shower, this could be permanently plumbed into your shower, and by using a small 12volt pump you should have enough pressure for a reasonable shower. Do you mean a small 12volt pump can pump the city water into the tank from the loft or do I have to buy the separate bigger pump to do that? The tank in the loft is a storage tank.Normally it will kept full by normal mains water pressure. The float valve is to prevent it overfilling An overflow pipe will be required one size at least larger than the feed pipe. It is probable that you may not be able to get the tank higher than 1 metre above the shower head,in that case you would need a small 12v booster pump on the delivery pipe to the shower. To prevent stale water staying in the tank I would advise ,plumbing into at least one toilet to maintain some flow of water in the tank.Obviously disconnecting that particular toilet from the city mains. This type of system is probably fitted in about 77% of UK homes . A competent diy plumber should be able to accomplish this in a day. I find this explanation very helpful and thanks for your kind patience & time. And I am currently reinforcing my understanding on this new water issue. So the competent plumber will be the best to take over my inexperience work and for time being I wonder where to get the contact with fair cost. I do have good large space in the loft (with lots of cobwebs ) and the ceiling is soft. My loft entrance is about 2 feet square. So I will find out if the 200L storage tank can be loaded into that. The tank can be located on between two structured steel. So the requirement must be good if the plumber can agree that. Therefore I hope this will be straightforward to fix within a same day. Do let us see the finished job won't you I've been following this thread with baited breath. Some nice photos before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This is not the UK. Walls here do not support. As said this would be a huge amount of weight/feeding trough for vermin just waiting to come crashing down. Not to mention that in many areas you do not have enough water pressure to even fill it without a pump and most homes do not have attics so there would not be anyplace to install. He has ruled out a normal small tank/pump in an easy access (outside) so suspect he would not be into building a new home. But I could be wrong. Whilst I defiantly agree the walls will not be load bearing the steel in the roof is. Much to my consternation my son decided his hot water tank would go in the roof like yourself I said no way,but the builder a well known company did the calcs and got it signed off ok. These calcs were also verified by an independent source. so we all live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) This is not the UK. Walls here do not support. As said this would be a huge amount of weight/feeding trough for vermin just waiting to come crashing down. Not to mention that in many areas you do not have enough water pressure to even fill it without a pump and most homes do not have attics so there would not be anyplace to install. He has ruled out a normal small tank/pump in an easy access (outside) so suspect he would not be into building a new home. But I could be wrong. Edited June 1, 2015 by sappersrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Actually my roof is wood and still have after 40 years but I sure would not be putting extra weight on supports be it wood or steel. Just seems much more work for less. An outside tank/pump could supply the whole house and be easy to access. Putting things in non-walking attic does not make sense to my mind. One leak and the whole house could be flooded. Tanks may require cleaning - how is that to be done? All this for one shower rather than improve the whole house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Actually my roof is wood and still have after 40 years but I sure would not be putting extra weight on supports be it wood or steel. Just seems much more work for less. An outside tank/pump could supply the whole house and be easy to access. Putting things in non-walking attic does not make sense to my mind. One leak and the whole house could be flooded. Tanks may require cleaning - how is that to be done? All this for one shower rather than improve the whole house. I must agree with you I was only try to give the op an alternative that would work as he seems adamant he does not want an outside tank.. I have been pricing up today and a 500 litre emergency tank plus pump about 11k,I live in Sansai in Chaing Mai and after an 8 hour water outage our water pressure has increased greatly, do I get the tank or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Have you had other outages? Is pressure good enough now for good showers? Would the 11k be worth it in reserve? (you can run normal pressure if good and only use pump when low or need to pump from tank). If you have city water it may not be worth the cost - but if you do have dry periods it can be very nice to have some reserve and a place to truck water if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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