acceptable 220 v wiring?

[carlyai]

This is my first try at power circuit design and wiring.

I did use to build some analogue and digital electronic circuits some 50 years ago, but never power.

Just need some feedback of what is wrong, for my next project.

I feel the terminal strips are not quite correct as it was difficult to get all the active, neutral and earth wires into the connectors.

I ended up soldering most of them.

[Crossy]

Looks pretty OK to me.

I too would not have used the choc-blocs, there are some nice rugged terminal strips with big contacts and insulated covers available, I'll post a photo later when I get home.

Since it's accessible to turn on/off I would arrange an insulating cover over those live relay terminals to avoid accidents when fumbling in the dark.

[RichCor]

The only issue I would watch for are ANTS taking up residence in the switch contacts.

Curious, did the manufacturer of your RCD Breaker specify that Load/Supply sides are swapable?

Some electricians have reported damaged devices. Probably dependent on design and feature set.

[carlyai]

The only issue I would watch for are ANTS taking up residence in the switch contacts.

Curious, did the manufacturer of your RCD Breaker specify that Load/Supply sides are swapable?

Some electricians have reported damaged devices. Probably dependent on design and feature set.

Yeah, the ants will probably be a problem.

I think the next para refers to the black and grey or black and white being swapped in the RCD.

I'm still not game to change main incoming power over myself, so got the electrician to change the main IC breaker over into a new DIN box

I installed the 3 MOVs in the DIN box and installed some breakers, one to the pump box that I made up the circuit for.

The electrician wired the black to neutral and the grey as active to the pump breaker in the DIN box

I didn't change his wiring around but kept the convention Crossy said as black active and white neutral in my pump box

[RichCor]

Actually, yes it's that circuit but I hadn't caught the color swap at the block.

(If I ever have to live with swapped wires I'll usually place two bands of correct colored tape on the wires in the hope it gives someone else the heads up that something unusual is going on and to take precautions)

But the reversal I'm curious about has to do with the TOP and BOTTOM usage of the RCD.

While many RCD will specify L and N terminals (because N side is physically designed to Make First/Break Last), in addition some RCD will also specify the 'top lugs' reserved for the "Supply Side" (input, always energized) vs the 'bottom lugs' reserved for the "Load Side".

You're using the bottom of the RCD as the input side. While this doesn't make any difference on most DPDT switches, it might on others. Just wondering if the documentation that came with it made any mentions of top vs bottom.

[LindaLovelace]

The only issue I would watch for are ANTS taking up residence in the switch contacts.

Curious, did the manufacturer of your RCD Breaker specify that Load/Supply sides are swapable?

Some electricians have reported damaged devices. Probably dependent on design and feature set.

Don't know if it will work for everybody, but I put some ant power on the inside bottom of the box. I have done the same, with success, with light switches (and a hot water heater) in the house that were invaded by ants.

[carlyai]

Actually, yes it's that circuit but I hadn't caught the color swap at the block.

(If I ever have to live with swapped wires I'll usually place two bands of correct colored tape on the wires in the hope it gives someone else the heads up that something unusual is going on and to take precautions)

But the reversal I'm curious about has to do with the TOP and BOTTOM usage of the RCD.

While many RCD will specify L and N terminals (because N side is physically designed to Make First/Break Last), in addition some RCD will also specify the 'top lugs' reserved for the "Supply Side" (input, always energized) vs the 'bottom lugs' reserved for the "Load Side".

You're using the bottom of the RCD as the input side. While this doesn't make any difference on most DPDT switches, it might on others. Just wondering if the documentation that came with it made any mentions of top vs bottom.

Yes, didn't think of that.

I just looked at the contact set up on the RCD and wired away.

The RCD was left over from the initial building where I put it on the cement mixer. It's 63 A if I remember.

The workers were quite happy to mix the cement in the rain with no earth on the mixer, so I thru in the RCD.

After learning a heap from this forum I would do it differently next time. Swimming pool coming up next year. Couldn't bear it this year.

Will pop out and look at the breaker. Got this really horrible raging flu, or something from Mossie bites, knocked me around this time.

[carlyai]

Actually, yes it's that circuit but I hadn't caught the color swap at the block.

(If I ever have to live with swapped wires I'll usually place two bands of correct colored tape on the wires in the hope it gives someone else the heads up that something unusual is going on and to take precautions)

But the reversal I'm curious about has to do with the TOP and BOTTOM usage of the RCD.

While many RCD will specify L and N terminals (because N side is physically designed to Make First/Break Last), in addition some RCD will also specify the 'top lugs' reserved for the "Supply Side" (input, always energized) vs the 'bottom lugs' reserved for the "Load Side".

You're using the bottom of the RCD as the input side. While this doesn't make any difference on most DPDT switches, it might on others. Just wondering if the documentation that came with it made any mentions of top vs bottom.

Yes, didn't think of that.

I just looked at the contact set up on the RCD and wired away.

The RCD was left over from the initial building where I put it on the cement mixer. It's 63 A if I remember.

The workers were quite happy to mix the cement in the rain with no earth on the mixer, so I thru in the RCD.

After learning a heap from this forum I would do it differently next time. Swimming pool coming up next year. Couldn't bear it this year.

Will pop out and look at the breaker. Got this really horrible raging flu, or something from Mossie bites, knocked me around this time.

The RCD is a ABB FH202AC and another number: 2CSF202006R1250.

Will look it up.

[carlyai]

Actually, yes it's that circuit but I hadn't caught the color swap at the block.

(If I ever have to live with swapped wires I'll usually place two bands of correct colored tape on the wires in the hope it gives someone else the heads up that something unusual is going on and to take precautions)

But the reversal I'm curious about has to do with the TOP and BOTTOM usage of the RCD.

While many RCD will specify L and N terminals (because N side is physically designed to Make First/Break Last), in addition some RCD will also specify the 'top lugs' reserved for the "Supply Side" (input, always energized) vs the 'bottom lugs' reserved for the "Load Side".

You're using the bottom of the RCD as the input side. While this doesn't make any difference on most DPDT switches, it might on others. Just wondering if the documentation that came with it made any mentions of top vs bottom.

Yes, didn't think of that.

I just looked at the contact set up on the RCD and wired away.

The RCD was left over from the initial building where I put it on the cement mixer. It's 63 A if I remember.

The workers were quite happy to mix the cement in the rain with no earth on the mixer, so I thru in the RCD.

After learning a heap from this forum I would do it differently next time. Swimming pool coming up next year. Couldn't bear it this year.

Will pop out and look at the breaker. Got this really horrible raging flu, or something from Mossie bites, knocked me around this time.

The RCD is a ABB FH202AC and another number: 2CSF202006R1250.

Will look it up.

Looked up the ABB web site and pdf for the FH200 series, and it says you can feed the device from either end.

Also the neutral is on the right. Good guess for me on both counts.

The PDF also says that the circuit has to be fused or have a breaker in it.

I wasn't aware of any of this, it's like the phase protection device for the pumps, the circuit drawing on the device is not what is actually in the device, but how it has to be wired.

Thanks for bringing that up as I thought you just bought an RCD and put it in.

[carlyai]

The only issue I would watch for are ANTS taking up residence in the switch contacts.

Curious, did the manufacturer of your RCD Breaker specify that Load/Supply sides are swapable?

Some electricians have reported damaged devices. Probably dependent on design and feature set.

Don't know if it will work for everybody, but I put some ant power on the inside bottom of the box. I have done the same, with success, with light switches (and a hot water heater) in the house that were invaded by ants.

Thanks for that.

We'll put some in all the outside electrical boxes and in the bottom of the meter box as well, so the mrs says.

[IMHO]

Looks pretty OK to me.

I too would not have used the choc-blocs, there are some nice rugged terminal strips with big contacts and insulated covers available, I'll post a photo later when I get home.

Since it's accessible to turn on/off I would arrange an insulating cover over those live relay terminals to avoid accidents when fumbling in the dark.

Let me supply that choc-blocs photo for you

[Crossy]

I was actually thinking of these, rated at 30A, available in all sorts of lengths.

[carlyai]

Looks pretty OK to me.

I too would not have used the choc-blocs, there are some nice rugged terminal strips with big contacts and insulated covers available, I'll post a photo later when I get home.

Since it's accessible to turn on/off I would arrange an insulating cover over those live relay terminals to avoid accidents when fumbling in the dark.

Let me supply that choc-blocs photo for you

IMG_1848.JPG

Thanks for that.

Can you send me a circuit of that set up so I can figure out how it works?

Seems you have two pumps but many contactors.

I will be installing a pool next year, I hope, but an irrigation system this year and would like to try and design my pump control and zone system.

I've wondered at those pump control boxes in the Watsadu etc with 'pump start', 'stop' and switches, and I'm beginning to think they may not be too difficult to design.

I can also see from your pic that I should have used my crimping tool for better connections.

[carlyai]

I was actually thinking of these, rated at 30A, available in all sorts of lengths.

SAM_2745.JPG

Thanks.

Using that terminal strip would have been a lot easier, and it has a perspex cover as well.

I could also have used crimping, which would have made it easier.

[LindaLovelace]

Actually, yes it's that circuit but I hadn't caught the color swap at the block.

(If I ever have to live with swapped wires I'll usually place two bands of correct colored tape on the wires in the hope it gives someone else the heads up that something unusual is going on and to take precautions)

But the reversal I'm curious about has to do with the TOP and BOTTOM usage of the RCD.

While many RCD will specify L and N terminals (because N side is physically designed to Make First/Break Last), in addition some RCD will also specify the 'top lugs' reserved for the "Supply Side" (input, always energized) vs the 'bottom lugs' reserved for the "Load Side".

You're using the bottom of the RCD as the input side. While this doesn't make any difference on most DPDT switches, it might on others. Just wondering if the documentation that came with it made any mentions of top vs bottom.

Yes, didn't think of that.

I just looked at the contact set up on the RCD and wired away.

The RCD was left over from the initial building where I put it on the cement mixer. It's 63 A if I remember.

The workers were quite happy to mix the cement in the rain with no earth on the mixer, so I thru in the RCD.

After learning a heap from this forum I would do it differently next time. Swimming pool coming up next year. Couldn't bear it this year.

Will pop out and look at the breaker. Got this really horrible raging flu, or something from Mossie bites, knocked me around this time.

Nothing like a little cement in the water to make it super conductive. During a rain last year, there was a cement mixer cord plug connection lying in some cement water near the mixer. I just picked it up by the cord about two feet from the plug to move it to higher ground, and wham!

[IMHO]

Looks pretty OK to me.

I too would not have used the choc-blocs, there are some nice rugged terminal strips with big contacts and insulated covers available, I'll post a photo later when I get home.

Since it's accessible to turn on/off I would arrange an insulating cover over those live relay terminals to avoid accidents when fumbling in the dark.

Let me supply that choc-blocs photo for you

IMG_1848.JPG

Thanks for that.

Can you send me a circuit of that set up so I can figure out how it works?

Seems you have two pumps but many contactors.

I will be installing a pool next year, I hope, but an irrigation system this year and would like to try and design my pump control and zone system.

I've wondered at those pump control boxes in the Watsadu etc with 'pump start', 'stop' and switches, and I'm beginning to think they may not be too difficult to design.

I can also see from your pic that I should have used my crimping tool for better connections.

This control box was actually built by the pool contractor, so I don't have a ready-made circuit diagram for it. I could probably draw one up if I wasn't so lazy though

There's actually 3 pumps (pool, waterfall & jacuzzi), but only 2 of them have timers. There's also a remote control receiver tucked in the left side, which controls the waterfall, jacuzzi and pool lights. The transformer you see on the right side is for the lights (12VAC).

[carlyai]

Looks pretty OK to me.

I too would not have used the choc-blocs, there are some nice rugged terminal strips with big contacts and insulated covers available, I'll post a photo later when I get home.

Since it's accessible to turn on/off I would arrange an insulating cover over those live relay terminals to avoid accidents when fumbling in the dark.

Let me supply that choc-blocs photo for you

IMG_1848.JPG

Thanks for that.

Can you send me a circuit of that set up so I can figure out how it works?

Seems you have two pumps but many contactors.

I will be installing a pool next year, I hope, but an irrigation system this year and would like to try and design my pump control and zone system.

I've wondered at those pump control boxes in the Watsadu etc with 'pump start', 'stop' and switches, and I'm beginning to think they may not be too difficult to design.

I can also see from your pic that I should have used my crimping tool for better connections.

This control box was actually built by the pool contractor, so I don't have a ready-made circuit diagram for it. I could probably draw one up if I wasn't so lazy though

There's actually 3 pumps (pool, waterfall & jacuzzi), but only 2 of them have timers. There's also a remote control receiver tucked in the left side, which controls the waterfall, jacuzzi and pool lights. The transformer you see on the right side is for the lights (12VAC).

Sounds very romantic.

Sitting there in a big chair, sipping on something and watching the nymphs play while the waterfall changes colours!

Back to reality. You have one phase protector and 3 contacTORS for the 3 pumps?

Are those little white boxes contracTORS as well? What for?

I thought the transformer would be for the lights. How have the lights been working?

In the past, the pools I've seen seem to leak around the lights and eventually the lights don't work.

[IMHO]

Sounds very romantic.

Sitting there in a big chair, sipping on something and watching the nymphs play while the waterfall changes colours!

Back to reality. You have one phase protector and 3 contacTORS for the 3 pumps?

Are those little white boxes contracTORS as well? What for?

I thought the transformer would be for the lights. How have the lights been working?

In the past, the pools I've seen seem to leak around the lights and eventually the lights don't work.

The 3 white boxes you see the the right of the phase protector are "non reversing motor starters" with overload protection - one for each of the pumps. Bear in mind these are 1 and 2HP pool pumps, not household pumps

The lights have been running nightly for over 16 months now, no issues. They are surface mounted LED's - the only hole through the pool sidewall is the cable itself, and 2x screws that hold the bracket. A single screw on the lamp housing is all it takes to remove them from the bracket, and the contractors left enough slack on the wires so they can be completely lifted out of the pool while still connected (the excess cable gets coiled up behind the fitting)... If/when they fail, it should be a fairly straight forward (and dry) job to replace them.

Edited June 4, 2015 by IMHO

[carlyai]

Sounds very romantic.

Sitting there in a big chair, sipping on something and watching the nymphs play while the waterfall changes colours!

Back to reality. You have one phase protector and 3 contacTORS for the 3 pumps?

Are those little white boxes contracTORS as well? What for?

I thought the transformer would be for the lights. How have the lights been working?

In the past, the pools I've seen seem to leak around the lights and eventually the lights don't work.

The 3 white boxes you see the the right of the phase protector are "non reversing motor starters" with overload protection - one for each of the pumps. Bear in mind these are 1 and 2HP pool pumps, not household pumps

The lights have been running nightly for over 16 months now, no issues. They are surface mounted LED's - the only hole through the pool sidewall is the cable itself, and 2x screws that hold the bracket. A single screw on the lamp housing is all it takes to remove them from the bracket, and the contractors left enough slack on the wires so they can be completely lifted out of the pool while still connected (the excess cable gets coiled up behind the fitting)... If/when they fail, it should be a fairly straight forward (and dry) job to replace them.

I tried to google ' nrms' but didn't seem to get me anywhere much.

So when you have larger motor installations, do you need ' nrms' or not

Do they limit the starting current to the motors and save power or why do you use them

If I put in an irrigation system for the house and use a two hp pump would IJ need one

Sorry worJIng in the dark at eh the moment

\

[IMHO]

Sounds very romantic.

Sitting there in a big chair, sipping on something and watching the nymphs play while the waterfall changes colours!

Back to reality. You have one phase protector and 3 contacTORS for the 3 pumps?

Are those little white boxes contracTORS as well? What for?

I thought the transformer would be for the lights. How have the lights been working?

In the past, the pools I've seen seem to leak around the lights and eventually the lights don't work.

The 3 white boxes you see the the right of the phase protector are "non reversing motor starters" with overload protection - one for each of the pumps. Bear in mind these are 1 and 2HP pool pumps, not household pumps

The lights have been running nightly for over 16 months now, no issues. They are surface mounted LED's - the only hole through the pool sidewall is the cable itself, and 2x screws that hold the bracket. A single screw on the lamp housing is all it takes to remove them from the bracket, and the contractors left enough slack on the wires so they can be completely lifted out of the pool while still connected (the excess cable gets coiled up behind the fitting)... If/when they fail, it should be a fairly straight forward (and dry) job to replace them.

I tried to google ' nrms' but didn't seem to get me anywhere much.

So when you have larger motor installations, do you need ' nrms' or not

Do they limit the starting current to the motors and save power or why do you use them

If I put in an irrigation system for the house and use a two hp pump would IJ need one

Sorry worJIng in the dark at eh the moment

\

For the actual units I use, google for: Mitsubishi MSO-T10

The way I understand it, these devices have 3 basic functions:

1. Insure the motor starts turning the right direction

2. Provide a soft-start for the motor (torque limiting)

3. Provide overload protection for the motor

Crossy might be able to provide a more detailed explanation

[carlyai]

Sounds very romantic.

Sitting there in a big chair, sipping on something and watching the nymphs play while the waterfall changes colours!

Back to reality. You have one phase protector and 3 contacTORS for the 3 pumps?

Are those little white boxes contracTORS as well? What for?

I thought the transformer would be for the lights. How have the lights been working?

In the past, the pools I've seen seem to leak around the lights and eventually the lights don't work.

The 3 white boxes you see the the right of the phase protector are "non reversing motor starters" with overload protection - one for each of the pumps. Bear in mind these are 1 and 2HP pool pumps, not household pumps

The lights have been running nightly for over 16 months now, no issues. They are surface mounted LED's - the only hole through the pool sidewall is the cable itself, and 2x screws that hold the bracket. A single screw on the lamp housing is all it takes to remove them from the bracket, and the contractors left enough slack on the wires so they can be completely lifted out of the pool while still connected (the excess cable gets coiled up behind the fitting)... If/when they fail, it should be a fairly straight forward (and dry) job to replace them.

I tried to google ' nrms' but didn't seem to get me anywhere much.

So when you have larger motor installations, do you need ' nrms' or not

Do they limit the starting current to the motors and save power or why do you use them

If I put in an irrigation system for the house and use a two hp pump would IJ need one

Sorry worJIng in the dark at eh the moment

\

For the actual units I use, google for: Mitsubishi MSO-T10

The way I understand it, these devices have 3 basic functions:

1. Insure the motor starts turning the right direction

2. Provide a soft-start for the motor (torque limiting)

3. Provide overload protection for the motor

Crossy might be able to provide a more detailed explanation

Did some more research and think I've got it. That's if you're using 3 phase motors.

As well as other good things, if you lose a phase (pretty common where I am), your three phase motor doesn't like that much, so the device turns off the motor.

[IMHO]

For the actual units I use, google for: Mitsubishi MSO-T10

The way I understand it, these devices have 3 basic functions:

1. Insure the motor starts turning the right direction

2. Provide a soft-start for the motor (torque limiting)

3. Provide overload protection for the motor

Crossy might be able to provide a more detailed explanation

Did some more research and think I've got it. That's if you're using 3 phase motors.

As well as other good things, if you lose a phase (pretty common where I am), your three phase motor doesn't like that much, so the device turns off the motor.

My pumps are all single phase

The original description I gave was from the brochure..

The major benefits are the controlled-start (otherwise AC motors can draw ~4x nominal current when starting) , and the overload protection (e.g. inlet/outlet closed/blocked, bearings gone etc).

Edited June 5, 2015 by IMHO

[carlyai]

For the actual units I use, google for: Mitsubishi MSO-T10

The way I understand it, these devices have 3 basic functions:

1. Insure the motor starts turning the right direction

2. Provide a soft-start for the motor (torque limiting)

3. Provide overload protection for the motor

Crossy might be able to provide a more detailed explanation

Did some more research and think I've got it. That's if you're using 3 phase motors.

As well as other good things, if you lose a phase (pretty common where I am), your three phase motor doesn't like that much, so the device turns off the motor.

My pumps are all single phase

The original description I gave was from the brochure..

The major benefits are the controlled-start (otherwise AC motors can draw ~4x nominal current when starting) , and the overload protection (e.g. inlet/outlet closed/blocked, bearings gone etc).

Sorry to keep on about this, but I am interested.

So can I say, in general, every pump needs a non-reversing motor starter.

Every pump needs a phase protector., or pumps need a phase protector.

Every bigger pump needs a contacTOR

So if I design my irrigation system, I should keep this in mind.

[IMHO]

For the actual units I use, google for: Mitsubishi MSO-T10

The way I understand it, these devices have 3 basic functions:

1. Insure the motor starts turning the right direction

2. Provide a soft-start for the motor (torque limiting)

3. Provide overload protection for the motor

Crossy might be able to provide a more detailed explanation

Did some more research and think I've got it. That's if you're using 3 phase motors.

As well as other good things, if you lose a phase (pretty common where I am), your three phase motor doesn't like that much, so the device turns off the motor.

My pumps are all single phase

The original description I gave was from the brochure..

The major benefits are the controlled-start (otherwise AC motors can draw ~4x nominal current when starting) , and the overload protection (e.g. inlet/outlet closed/blocked, bearings gone etc).

Sorry to keep on about this, but I am interested.

So can I say, in general, every pump needs a non-reversing motor starter.

Every pump needs a phase protector., or pumps need a phase protector.

Every bigger pump needs a contacTOR

So if I design my irrigation system, I should keep this in mind.

I guess you could say that

Unless you're using solar pumps - in which case all this gets thrown out