My Dog Bites People

[grumbleweed]

Dogbreath - how is my study deeply flawed? I gave you accurate statistics of 30 odd years of collecting figures in one semi-rural school. I admit to be being biased and explained this to the students. The homework essay was entitled Dogs, A Man's Best Friend?'. Even the most reluctant writers enjoyed the topic. A number of parents also joined in.

rijit - The National Curriculum welcomes such teacher enthusiasms. If you get someone to help you understand my post, I did not rate students' intelligence by dog ownership, I merely counted up the hands raised and presented the totals to the class; they drew their own conclusions.

The students were then given the opportunity to balance the discussion in their essays.

Another interesting FACT which emerged over the years: our school regularly raised 3000 UKP on big charity days like Red Nose Day. This equated to 2 pounds a YEAR per pupil on average to feed black babies in Africa. Most dog owners were happy to accept their families spent over 10 UKP per WEEK on dog food, Vets bills & the like.

Which neatly brings us back to the OP - dogs that bite children should not live to do it again.

When someone resorts to personal abuse in a discussion ( argument ad hominem ) it means they feel they are losing the argument. " Accurate statistics in one semi-rural school?" Yeah right. Impressionable children exercising rational judgment after you have influenced them? Spare me.

I have difficulty understanding a post which veers off onto charity days, which are good works in themselves. You seem to be suggesting pets should regularly be starved so the money saved can then be donated to charity. No doubt the pets would get a warm glow from their participation.

The relevance of feeding black babies in Africa to a discussion about dog bites man escapes me.

I get the feeling you were bitten by a dog as a child, and never got over it.

With regard to feeding the kids in Africa; I understood straight away that he was making a comparison between the amount people spend on their dogs and the amount they donate to starving children. Then again, I am not a dog owner

[mogandave]

Dogbreath - how is my study deeply flawed? I gave you accurate statistics of 30 odd years of collecting figures in one semi-rural school. I admit to be being biased and explained this to the students. The homework essay was entitled Dogs, A Man's Best Friend?'. Even the most reluctant writers enjoyed the topic. A number of parents also joined in.

rijit - The National Curriculum welcomes such teacher enthusiasms. If you get someone to help you understand my post, I did not rate students' intelligence by dog ownership, I merely counted up the hands raised and presented the totals to the class; they drew their own conclusions.

The students were then given the opportunity to balance the discussion in their essays.

Another interesting FACT which emerged over the years: our school regularly raised 3000 UKP on big charity days like Red Nose Day. This equated to 2 pounds a YEAR per pupil on average to feed black babies in Africa. Most dog owners were happy to accept their families spent over 10 UKP per WEEK on dog food, Vets bills & the like.

Which neatly brings us back to the OP - dogs that bite children should not live to do it again.

When someone resorts to personal abuse in a discussion ( argument ad hominem ) it means they feel they are losing the argument. " Accurate statistics in one semi-rural school?" Yeah right. Impressionable children exercising rational judgment after you have influenced them? Spare me.

I have difficulty understanding a post which veers off onto charity days, which are good works in themselves. You seem to be suggesting pets should regularly be starved so the money saved can then be donated to charity. No doubt the pets would get a warm glow from their participation.

The relevance of feeding black babies in Africa to a discussion about dog bites man escapes me.

I get the feeling you were bitten by a dog as a child, and never got over it.

With regard to feeding the kids in Africa; I understood straight away that he was making a comparison between the amount people spend on their dogs and the amount they donate to starving children. Then again, I am not a dog owner

So did all the kids that were too smart to have a dog donate the extra 520 quid a year to feel the babies?

I would bet the families with pets generally donated more than the families without pets.

[mikebell]

Bazza40 - re personal abuse, I was replying to the following from a student who was certainly never taught by me! - '.anti dog class's for 38 years. wow!!! thank heaven for the national carriculem !!! and he rates peoples intellegence by wether they like dogs or not !! brings to the table are you gonna get a sane let alone balanced discussion, so tbh, i'll give this one a miss.'

'Accurate statistics in one semi-rural school?" They were remarkably accurate for the one school I collected them in where I taught the lesson. The impressionable children were told in advance they would be subjected to a biased one-sided lesson and that they would be given the right to reply.

'You seem to be suggesting pets should regularly be starved so the money saved can then be donated to charity.' I don't know how you drew this conclusion from my added fact. I was attempting to show what value our society places on human life versus dogs' lives.

I was not bitten as a child - my younger brother was. He had 26 stitches inserted in his face. I witnessed the incident as a vulnerable ten year old, not surprisingly I was mentally scarred for life to match my brother's physical scars. You could say I feel strongly about dogs being allowed to roam free biting children.

[bazza40]

Bazza40 - re personal abuse, I was replying to the following from a student who was certainly never taught by me! - '.anti dog class's for 38 years. wow!!! thank heaven for the national carriculem !!! and he rates peoples intellegence by wether they like dogs or not !! brings to the table are you gonna get a sane let alone balanced discussion, so tbh, i'll give this one a miss.'

'Accurate statistics in one semi-rural school?" They were remarkably accurate for the one school I collected them in where I taught the lesson. The impressionable children were told in advance they would be subjected to a biased one-sided lesson and that they would be given the right to reply.

'You seem to be suggesting pets should regularly be starved so the money saved can then be donated to charity.' I don't know how you drew this conclusion from my added fact. I was attempting to show what value our society places on human life versus dogs' lives.

I was not bitten as a child - my younger brother was. He had 26 stitches inserted in his face. I witnessed the incident as a vulnerable ten year old, not surprisingly I was mentally scarred for life to match my brother's physical scars. You could say I feel strongly about dogs being allowed to roam free biting children.

Mikebell,

If you refer to my previous posts, you'll find I agree with you - the dog should be put down.

There are some people who are so emotionally involved with their dogs that the dog becomes a surrogate child. They are going to be the hardest to shift in terms of the subject matter.

It's really sad your childhood experience has affected you so badly, because a lot of people ( especially older ones ) get a great deal of comfort and pleasure out of the companionship a dog can provide. So it's not surprising that yes, a human life in Africa can be regarded as less important against a pet in one's living room.

I used to despise cats, because they are death on birds. However, I've come to like them as ultimate individualists. Herding cats is a popular expression for an exercise in futility. Much less demanding than dogs. And they're a joy to see in a playful mood.

It comes back to what I said previously, modified a little - there are no bad pets, only bad owners. Although it's a bit of a stretch to suggest we should put down the owners.

[Cpkt8]

The last time my dogs bit someone, my dad had them put down permanently. It was said once the dogs had tasted blood, they will bite again.

[mikebell]

Bazza40.

In the Dogs' essay many students countered my anti-dog bias by speaking of the therapeutic effects a dog can have. They pointed out that some hospitals allow dogs to aid recovery during a convalescence period. They listed the many valuable jobs dogs perform as 'blind' dogs, sniffer dogs even sheep dogs.

My school was in a sheep farming area & annually students spoke of the mutilation of their families' ewes/new born lambs. Over the years they brought in photos of still born lambs and scarred ewes. Eventually a law came into force that banned dogs from running wild during lambing season on pain of death. Sometimes the photo collection showed the corpse of the culprit.

I have been a cat person since I was 10!

[bazza40]

Bazza40.

In the Dogs' essay many students countered my anti-dog bias by speaking of the therapeutic effects a dog can have. They pointed out that some hospitals allow dogs to aid recovery during a convalescence period. They listed the many valuable jobs dogs perform as 'blind' dogs, sniffer dogs even sheep dogs.

My school was in a sheep farming area & annually students spoke of the mutilation of their families' ewes/new born lambs. Over the years they brought in photos of still born lambs and scarred ewes. Eventually a law came into force that banned dogs from running wild during lambing season on pain of death. Sometimes the photo collection showed the corpse of the culprit.

I have been a cat person since I was 10!

Mikebell,

I've spent a considerable amount of time holidaying on a large sheep station in western New South Wales. 45,000 acres, 15,000 sheep.

Labradors/ Golden Retrievers are notorious sheep killers. In that region, they are shot on sight by station hands.

Kangaroos and wallabies can usually handle a dog attack. Their technique is to drag the dog into a dam and drown it. There's one breed of dog that they can't handle, however - a Scottish deerhound. The deerhound's hunting instinct makes it take off after a kangaroo, again on sight.

Feral cats are lethal to Australian wildlife, and they don't have any predators except man. Difficult to hunt, because at night you only get two glimpses of their eyes. They grow bigger than a domestic cat - I once shot one measuring 1.5 metres from nose to tip of tail. Scary.

I've found a cat for company is a lot less demanding than a dog, although it does take the cat some time to train us properly.

[mogandave]

My dad used to say that everybody that hates cats all have one thing in common...

[WhoWhenWhyWhat]

Factor,

Those are not the only 2 alternatives for a solution you have with regards to your current predicament.

Firstly, I would like to offer you a brief understanding of your breed temperaments. In your case, TBD or the Thai Bangkeaw Dog.

"This is an intelligent, athletic, agile and robust breed. It will be a loyal and protective family companion as well as an excellent watchdog. The Thai Bangkaew Dog a loving, intelligent and alert dog that makes an excellent and devoted family companion as well as a good working and hunting dog... can be aloof with strangers and is very territorial and protective. However, this breed is more likely to threaten than bite and attack... known to be very aggressive towards other dogs. With other animals your dog will get along well if you start socialization from a very young age. This breed is definitely for an experienced owner... is an intelligent breed, but is independent and can be stubborn. Therefore, it's not always easy to train. This breed need consistent and short training with a lot of positive methods like treats or praise... The Thai Bangkaew Dog need a, confident, and experienced owner who can earn the dog’s trust and respect. Socialization must start from a very young age." Source, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Bangkaew_Dog

Apart from the source, there's not much studies being written of the breed in detail.

I own 2 Bangkeaw dogs and have been training, studying and documenting their temperaments, inclinations and most importantly, their receptive level towards retraining and rehabilitation.

I also attack trained GSD's, Belgian Malinois's, and Rottweiler's. On top of training all my other breeds.

Please note, I am not doing it as a professional dog trainer. Rather, a passion with dedicated learning and hands on training.

I wish to also state that being a current owner of 6 Workingline & Showline GSD's, a Rottweiler and a Pitbull .

The Bangkeaw's trumps all of them in terms of property protection, alertness, agility, super-charged energy and fearlessness.

They would make the perfect choice for personal, police or military dogs.

But stymied by their physical size, difficulty to transfer handling, and response to command (Bangkeaw's a one Master dog).

Now, what causes your dog to bite have several contributing factors.

1. An opened gate without him being on lead and under supervision. A cardinal mistake!

2. Provocation and taunts.

3. Pent up frustration.

4. An extension of protection od your property.

It could be No.1, or all 4 factors contributing towards the two incidents.

The Bangkeaw as I had mentioned earlier is a one Master dog. Who is it? You or the Mrs?

I have a few suggestions with regards to your question as an alternatives, other than the 2 you have.

But, it really depends on your commitment whether to rehabilitate him, take measures and be more responsible, place him in to a responsible animal shelter bearing the cost, or to put him down.

I would never choose the former unless, I have exhausted all avenues to no avail.

Giving him away is NOT an option, my friend. That's irresponsible of you and it's in actuality, passing over a problem that would caused an imminent disaster to happen. And it will happened!

Thus, I urged you to seriously to reconsider your choices.

Here's my suggestions:

1. If you are inclined towards rehabilitating him, send me a PM and I'll email you a step-by-step easy to follow three 15 mins daily training guide followed with periodic reinforcements.

2. Perhaps, you can install a pen or fencing within your compound separating the backyard from the main.

A popular belief among dog owners are: A huge area around the house is good for the dogs, so they are free to do as they will as long as, it's walled and gated.

On the contrary, Bangkeaw's as well with many other breeds are territorial. Thus with no set limitations placed on them, an opened gate, off lead, unsupervised, render the area outside as open territories to be claimed.

I don't mean to give you a lecture, but dogs that attacked with/without provocation are unbalanced and mostly, due to the irresponsibility of the owner.

Some unwittingly and got themselves a dog out of their love for the creature called, "man's best friend" but providing food, shelter and love are not enough!

They need guidance, directions, corrections, reinforcements and instructions.

For such an intelligent breed, the Bangkeaw thrives when given the above.

As you said it, "...beautiful, loyal, great with my three year old son, and protective of the property."

That's UNCONDITIONAL LOVE he gave you and your family!

Doesn't that justify for you to make an extra effort and rehabilitate him?

He doesn't understand what he did wrong...he above all needs to be taught, and guided by you.

There are different school of thoughts pertaining to dog training methods. It depends on your inclinations and comfort level to adopt which.

It could work with one but none with the other, even within the same breed.

There were suggestions and opinions made on this thread some with validity @weegee @konying @gr8fldanielle, with humour @smokie36 @surangw, with regret @yankee99, with learned experience @cornishcarlos, uncalled for though with a valid reason to be angry @gumbleweed, with fallacy @neversure, and more...to the downright STUPID.

It's yours to ponder!

Regards

Edited June 6, 2015 by WhoWhenWhyWhat

[FACTOR]

Dear WhoWhenWhyWhat--

Thank you very much for the excellent advice. I've just sent you a PM.

Sorry about the "noise" from NZexpat after your post.

Thanks again.

[WhoWhenWhyWhat]

Dear WhoWhenWhyWhat--

Thank you very much for the excellent advice. I've just sent you a PM.

Sorry about the "noise" from NZexpat after your post.

Thanks again.

Factor,

I will be sending you the email later this evening. You made the right choice, mate!

It'll help for sure.

Cheers

[FACTOR]

Dear WhoWhenWhyWhat--

Thank you very much for the excellent advice. I've just sent you a PM.

Sorry about the "noise" from NZexpat after your post.

Thanks again.

Factor,

I will be sending you the email later this evening. You made the right choice, mate!

It'll help for sure.

Cheers

WhoWh....

Thanks. I look forward to hearing from you.

[theoldgit]

A couple of unhelpful posts removed.