luckyman Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 RIP. Water and domestic electrics worldwide isnt a very god mix but water and Thai electrical installation standards = accident waiting to happen. I am not Thai bashing, it is a sad truth that Thai Electrical Installation Standards are not very high. so you are blaming the Thais for this rather than blaming someone who was likely meddling with something he was not qualified to do, maybe a phone call to an electrician might have been the correct course of action - and I am electrically qualified and know the dangers RIP I think he is pointing to the fact a trip switch should be installed, might be true. But you can't deny the appalling state of education and level of certification for local electricians, plumbers etc. etc. though, can you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yup ^^^. And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious.... Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible. Its the amps that kill you not the volts, if it was voltage, tasers would be killing everyone You are dead wrong. It is the voltage that drives the current, measured in amperes. 220 V. is twice the voltage of 110 V. and more likely to drive a larger current through you to ground. 550 V. can kill you even if there is no load (and so no amperage) on the line. Just touch a live 550 v. buss and. if you are gorunded, it grabs you, forces all your muscles to spasm, so you can't breathe, until you die and relax and let go. A TASER is DC and extremely high voltage in order to give you a shock, not a current like the Frenchman had going through his body. TASERS do kill people. It is not the voltage or lack of that kills it is the psychotic cops who get off on repeatedly shocking a person who is drunk of out of control - so his heart gives out, or he falls and dies from banging his head on something while unable to react normally because of the shock. Spark plug wires do the same thing - high voltage, tiny current - give you a shock. Not the same as a 110 or 220/230v. AC source, which even with low amperage can electrocute you - different process, same result. Your heart takes a big hit. Oh dear go back to school dear boy its the amps that kills not the volts, in fact 100 to 200 mA is enough to be fatal, there have been industrial cases of fatal electrocution with a 42v supply cos the person we as zapped with currents in excess of 100mA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad. I doubt it, a ground (under your feet) shock is usually not a killer - holding the pipes while touching a live connection is and is usually across the chest stopping the heart They use plastic pipes in Thailand. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabC Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 You are dead wrong. It is the voltage that drives the current, measured in amperes. 220 V. is twice the voltage of 110 V. and more likely to drive a larger current through you to ground. 550 V. can kill you even if there is no load (and so no amperage) on the line. Just touch a live 550 v. buss and. if you are gorunded, it grabs you, forces all your muscles to spasm, so you can't breathe, until you die and relax and let go. A TASER is DC and extremely high voltage in order to give you a shock, not a current like the Frenchman had going through his body. TASERS do kill people. It is not the voltage or lack of that kills it is the psychotic cops who get off on repeatedly shocking a person who is drunk of out of control - so his heart gives out, or he falls and dies from banging his head on something while unable to react normally because of the shock. Spark plug wires do the same thing - high voltage, tiny current - give you a shock. Not the same as a 110 or 220/230v. AC source, which even with low amperage can electrocute you - different process, same result. Your heart takes a big hit. Oh dear go back to school dear boy its the amps that kills not the volts, in fact 100 to 200 mA is enough to be fatal, there have been industrial cases of fatal electrocution with a 42v supply cos the person we as zapped with currents in excess of 100mA Soutpeel It would be contrary to all electrical safety to back you up by describing how as an apprentice I was taught to check for phases on 440V with a wet finger tip, but I am still here to tell the tale, Volts has bugger all to do with electrocution. It wasn't clever but it taught me respect for electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 To the fellow who shut off his circuit breakers, worked on equipment and then found that the equipment worked on was live anyway: do you like living? Do you not have a multi-meter? Before I work on anything electric, I take my multi-meter and stick the pins into a plug-in socket I know is live to test that the meter is working and set up properly. Then I shut off the breaker to the equipment I am working on. Then I test to see if said equipment is live with the multi-meter. I test it at least twice, ensuring good contact with the pins. Only then do I work on that equipment. Another common mistake I see is someone shutting off a control switch instead of the circuit breaker and then considering the equipment is isolated. That is not sufficient. Countless Thai "electricians" will wire the switch so that it switches the neutral wire instead of the load or hot wire. That means that the equipment will not run but it will be hot. Be very careful out there. A multimeter may be more dangerous in the hands of the average, electrically challenged. Get a test screwdriver instead. Insulated blade with only the tip exposed and a neon light built into the handle that 'grounds' through your hand via the brass cap on the end of the handle. They sell them at Amorn. Or as suggested earlier, the simple 2-pin plug wired to a light socket with a bulb in it.... TEST THE BULB FIRST!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 RIP. Short circuit BS. He made the short. A bad installation with bad insulation... But Thailand has no effective health an safety to investigate and prosecute if if they find gross negligence, or wilful actions to be the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) .... Always told when working on live systems... Never have your free hand hold onto any metalwork. In my basic sparkies training way back in the 70's, the rule was to keep your free hand in your pocket. This did lead to one complaint from a customer that, "The young chap looked lazy. Never took his hand out of his pocket all the time he was working." Oh yes, and when working lying on your back under an electrical console or heads down and waist deep inside some HVAC cabinet, keep tapping your foot or moving your legs around lest some passing do-gooder thinks you've been zapped already and calls 999. Edited June 5, 2015 by NanLaew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrypom Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yup ^^^. And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious.... Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible. Its the amps that kill you not the volts, if it was voltage, tasers would be killing everyone It is in fact a combination of the two, without sufficient volts there is not enough pressure to push the Amps through you, this is why they run on 110 volts in some countries, much safer. It is however true the Amps kill you but assisted by the volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 So sad, RIP Man Just a thought, Go buy a meter and check power is off before messing about with any electrical gear. even if you have flipped the main switch still check.. You can make your own meter. All you need is a light socket with 2 pigtails and a light bulb. If the bulb lights up its live. unless the light bulb is blown..they were banned many years ago in Australia for that reason. LOL. That's the Nanny state for you. Nothing easier than banning a basic tester because the user is too dumb to... TEST THE BULB FIRST. But never mind, REAL sparkies still have at least a couple of bulbs-on-a-plug in their toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitti Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Are you trying to say this was not a Thai-built building? Are you seriously suggesting that a Thai electrician would have been able to fix the problem? If you are indeed electrically trained, you will certainly have looked in horror at the incompetently installed electrical systems in most Thai buildings. Well, if he had called pump manufacturer and have them send their technician, he would have much better chance of making it work again. Not sure where you live but you must only have seen some old buildings. All newer buildings built by reputable companies are fine. My houses are perfectly fine. My apartment and condo buildings are fine, tenants never complained about this. I very frequently visit many new housing/building/hotel projects, they are all just fine. Any truly qualified electrician can get this basic job done right. Before jump to conclusion and point fingers at Thai as usual, why not point them at this farang. It was his fault that, obviously, he did not switch off the main. He was about to take shower. He attempted to repair at that moment. He was not careful. I really hate to burst your bubble but go look in the roof/crawl spaces of these wonderfully wired homes/hotels and condos you will see the real truth about the quality of workmanship. In Thailand as ever "Out of sight Out of mind" I can't say anything 100% for sure with the other buildings but believe me all my houses and buildings are absolutely fine. Not only I hired expensive specialized consultants and third party inspections, I also personally inpsected and photographed every step of constructions for all my buildings and homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryAdriaenssens Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Why am I not surprised about things like this? Because anything can happen in this lousy world of us.... and I respectively not refer only to Thailand..... What a world these days, Jesus! Where do we go from here, folks!!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Yup ^^^. And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious.... Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible. Its the amps that kill you not the volts, if it was voltage, tasers would be killing everyone You are dead wrong. It is the voltage that drives the current, measured in amperes. 220 V. is twice the voltage of 110 V. and more likely to drive a larger current through you to ground. 550 V. can kill you even if there is no load (and so no amperage) on the line. Just touch a live 550 v. buss and. if you are gorunded, it grabs you, forces all your muscles to spasm, so you can't breathe, until you die and relax and let go. A TASER is DC and extremely high voltage in order to give you a shock, not a current like the Frenchman had going through his body. TASERS do kill people. It is not the voltage or lack of that kills it is the psychotic cops who get off on repeatedly shocking a person who is drunk of out of control - so his heart gives out, or he falls and dies from banging his head on something while unable to react normally because of the shock. Spark plug wires do the same thing - high voltage, tiny current - give you a shock. Not the same as a 110 or 220/230v. AC source, which even with low amperage can electrocute you - different process, same result. Your heart takes a big hit. Sorry, but volts or electromotive force is safe and static when sitting there in its wire or battery. But once you become the conductor, the path of least resistance to ground, ie. YOU FORM A CURRENT PATH, it's the current flowing through you that kills. That's why in certain industrial installations where live-working in unavoidable, wearing proper safety clothing and using special tools renders the current flow impossible and you can happily work away at the same high tension voltage your are working on. My highest has only been 480 V AC but that's peanuts to a HVAC worker. Back in my pre-Med days when I was fixing televisions, it was fun to play around with the final anode voltage on a monochrome tube and wire the overwind transformer output to someone pliers on the bench. It was about 15 kV but unregulated so it made you jump but it couldn't kill. Then came color television with around 30 kV on the overwind but it was REGULATED which meant as long as you were the path of least resistance, it kept pumping the volts out. We didn't play with that stuff too much. Just don't take your bloody hand out of your pocket! Edited June 5, 2015 by NanLaew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!! Really ? i switch mine off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Nowadays it occurs frequently that guys work on 300 000 volt lines and even higher, LIVE LINES! Happens a lot in Asia and in Europe. On the national grids. Works out well (most of the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugocnx Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad. I doubt it, a ground (under your feet) shock is usually not a killer - holding the pipes while touching a live connection is and is usually across the chest stopping the heart Holding pipes?? Plastic pipes won't kill you. You evidently don't live in Thailand. Sorry NanLew, didn't see your post befor thinking. Edited June 5, 2015 by hugocnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Very sad for him and also for his pregnant wife. Also very sad that in a one storey house he needed a pump to get pressure for a shower. The water authorities should be under some kind of legal obligation to provide mains water at a decent enough pressure to at least service a one story building. Personaly , in 30 years here I have never had the need for a pump. Provided , I at least have a water supply I really prefer the old fashion way of a tank of water and a plastic ladel . Like standing under a waterfall. As for hot showers......only necessary on the coldest of days ....pretty rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangUSA Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Amazing Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 009.JPG Amazing Thailand not very amazing, you see the same shit all over Japan and all over USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangUSA Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Look up high, Look down low. Guard your head, and guard your toe. Watch to the left, Watch to the right. For the thing that shall smite thee, Will be out of sight. Be safe members and friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farangUSA Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) 009.JPG Amazing Thailand not very amazing, you see the same shit all over Japan and all over USA I have lived in the USA for 50 years and in five states and as a commercial pilot I have traversed a lot of the country but have never seen this. Where can this be found in the USA? Edited June 5, 2015 by farangUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig krup Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) An Electrician in Thailand is more like a Magician. Your never more than a milliamp away from being electocuted in Thailand....Perhaps a pair of rubber flip flops would have saved his life. Sad. "rubber flip flops" as safety shoes..... Two 16 year old kids killed in Bangkok last year in a gated community - my pal knows the family. One touched a gate that was live as he stepped out of the pool, and his pal died trying to help. Edited June 5, 2015 by Craig krup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotpoom Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 A very valuable lesson for me here. I often work on the pump without closing down the electricity. bleeding it of air from time to time, or disconnecting the live wire to shut it down if going away for a few days (if I close off all the electricity at the main switch the fridge would go off) and reconnecting it again when I come home. May this man Rest in Peace plus strength and prayers for all his loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 009.JPG Amazing Thailand not very amazing, you see the same shit all over Japan and all over USA I have lived in the USA for 50 years and in five states and as a commercial pilot I have traversed a lot of the country but have never seen this. Where can this be found in the USA? I have never lived in the USA, and I am not a commercial pilot, but I have traversed the continental US many times., through many years. I have visited the US frequently (many states) through many years, MANY years. And I have always been shocked about the low voltage supply system. It looks like double shit. Massachusets (maybe wrongly spelt) I see a lot of this, Long Island see a lot, lets say the east coast north of New Jersey up to Canada you see plenty of this. DC and surroundings, you will see a lot. (maybe not you, but I will) Coastal California you will see a lot (the drowsy laid back part of the west coast). Man, you find it all over (outside of larger cities), and it has always amazed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connda Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Without even reading the article:Electricity 101: Rule number 1: Cut the main breaker switch to the off position.Rule number 2: Use a voltmeter to test the circuit prior to conducting repairs. RIP. Better luck in your next life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADDAT Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yup ^^^. And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him Is there a difference with the voltage here? Many years ago, I was in my father's pool when the pump went off. I opened the box to switch it back on and accidentally hit a live wire as it was late at night. The current grabbed me, but luckily when I fell back, it let me go. Would a GFCI have helped with that??? Or is 120V less "dangerous". Just curious.... Again, RIP to this man and my heart goes out to his wife. How horrible. 120v is more dangerous because it doesn't have enough voltage to cause your muscles to react from the voltage. It just continually shocks you until you can pull away from it. I'm sure many on here will disagree with this as it is counter intuitive, but the person who knows more about electricity and wiring than anyone I have ever met informed me of this. Now obviously if you are talking about much higher voltage than this rule does not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaimike370 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!! Soon after moving to Thailand I switched off the fuse board and found half the lights and sockets were still on. A so called electrician had joined half the house wiring straight onto the incoming mains up in the roof space giving no protection between the house and the power transformer at the other end of the village. I had to change the fuse board from a three way to a twelve way board with breakers. Plus a 2 meter earth stake with a 4 mm earth wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADDAT Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I woke up a few weeks ago to the sound of my water pump whirring. I went outside and water was pouring out of it. I turned off all the electric in the house, put some rubber flip flops on & some rubber gloves on. I still felt a fair bit of trepidation as I pulled the plug out of the socket!!Soon after moving to Thailand I switched off the fuse board and found half the lights and sockets were still on. A so called electrician had joined half the house wiring straight onto the incoming mains up in the roof space giving no protection between the house and the power transformer at the other end of the village. I had to change the fuse board from a three way to a twelve way board with breakers. Plus a 2 meter earth stake with a 4 mm earth wire. IMG_3771.JPG Redneck engineering pales in comparison to Thai seat of the pants engineering. The Thai people are incredibly resourceful and ingenious in many respects, but the lengths they go to to bypass safety precautions and logic is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabra Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 R.I.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussieroaming Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Rip, but people should be more careful doing DIY repairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bignose Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yup ^^^. And a 500 Baht RCBO would likely have saved him EDIT For those interested in how to add an RCBO and other electrical safety issues please have a look here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/693630-how-to-make-your-thai-electrical-system-safe/ Crossy, I'm sorry but I don't know you personally as I would love to speak to you to confirm what is your intent in posting the previous shortcut? Is this as a guide to what to ask for (or expect) when others have a qualified electrician install or modify equipment, or is it a guide on how to complete this works themselves? In spite of this sad and tragic accident (the very thought that this man has been taken while his wife is carrying their child is heartbreaking) I find it totally bewildering that anyone would continue to post advice for the uneducated and untrained to carry out electrical work themselves!!! I believe you (and others on TVF) have an electrical background? Does it not go against everything you were taught to share this kind of electrical information with the electrically untrained person? Genuine apologies if I have misunderstood your post and its intent, it's just that every time an untrained person touches something electrical there is extreme potential for a repeat headline. Please, no matter what you're qualifications or experience, please stop posting information to be used by others. I appreciate there is a huge amount of information available on the internet, but by readily engaging in this kind of technical exchange you are legitimizing or condoning this kind of amateur activity, you're training will/should tell you this is unacceptable. Commiserations and condolences to his wife, family and friends... Bignose, you have no idea what you are writing about. Just visit the link and the electrical forum, take a couple of weeks, and have another think before you post this well intentioned, but highly missinformed crap. On the contrary, Seems Bignose is from a country where electrical safety is taken seriously and electricians are well trained, educated licensed and responsible. Not from the realms of where any so called handyman can do electrical work. If you choose to ignore or bad mouth him then good for you. Eventually someone will pay the price. Couldn't have said it better myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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