Sale of lottery tickets above Bt80 to be taxed

[Lite Beer]

Sale of lottery tickets above Bt80 to be taxed
Bunchoo Sritraiphob
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- PRASONG Poontaneat, the director-general of Revenue Department, said yesterday that the department will join hands with the Government Lottery Office to investigate lottery retailers who sell lottery tickets priced at above Bt80 and the department will collect revenue tax on the amount exceeding Bt80 per ticket.

"We will send our staff to collaborate with the Government Lottery Office staff who will survey and investigate the lottery retailers nationwide. This is a part of the measure to force retailers to do business as per the law," he said.

He added that when they sell lottery tickets priced at more than Bt80 per ticket, they would have to pay tax on the amount exceeding Bt80. This is the way to pay back to the society.

For example, if they sell at Bt90 per ticket, then Bt10 will be assessed for income tax, he said.

Meanwhile, vendors of government lottery tickets have voiced concerns over the Bt80 ticket price controlled by the Prayut Chan-o-cha government, saying the per-ticket profit of Bt9.60 are too little for them.

When tickets were priced illegally at Bt100, or even Bt120 for much-wanted numbers, vendors enjoyed profits of Bt15 to Bt20 per ticket, said Preecha Kamongkhol, chairman of the Loei-based government lottery vendors' network.

Preecha said he would lead a rally to call for a meeting with the Loei governor to ask for a greater quota, from 1,000 ticket booklets every 15-day draw to 1,500, to all 14,760 vendors registered with the network.

The Loei provincial authorities, like in all other provinces where the governors are instructed to take charge of the price-control policy and directly regulate quotas, allocated only 10,000 booklets to 2,000 registered vendors on June 3.

Preecha suggested that ticket price be lowered to Bt40 or Bt45 so that buyers would buy more tickets. Alternatively, the Government Lottery Office should lower the pre-sale price to vendors to Bt65, or allot direct quota to vendors instead of through agents who are influential people and have enjoyed a per-draw deduction from the ticket price for decades.

Daungta Onchaisakul, a vendor, said hawking vendors face a bigger problem with the controlled price at Bt80 compared to stall dealers, as hawking vendors also shoulder extra expenses on food and accommodation, along with extra labour roaming around to sell the tickets on foot, or on bicycle.

She said the controlled price of Bt80 had a direct impact on vendors who do it as a career.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Sale-of-lottery-tickets-above-Bt80-to-be-taxed-30261732.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-06

[thesetat2013]

Shouldn't they also collect the taxes on those so called tips these vendors are asking from people?

[Andreas2]

"This is a part of the measure to force retailers to do business as per the law". To me this means, selling lottery tickets for more than 80 Baht is against the law, right?

If I understand the director-general of Revenue Department correctly, his interpretation of the law means that breaking the law is ok as long as the illegally taken money is taxed - like the profit of a legal business.

Maybe this guy also thinks it's ok if somebody is robbed as long as he gets handed over his tax cut from the robber.

This revenue guy is really a pillar of "the society" he claims to work for.

Don't let him confuse you. With "the society" like in "pay back to the society" he means precisely and exclusively himself and the rest of his fellow tax eaters - Not you or me.

What an honorable man he is.

[Don Mega]

how do they plan on taxing a cash transaction ?

[worgeordie]

So the law is not tough enough,that they have to involve

the tax man.

regards worgeordie

[ChrisY1]

A complete failure...and after so much fanfare and postulating from the top brass......the lottery scam cannot be solved.

So someones going to go around all over Thailand inspecting each seller........sure..that'll work!!

[Chupup]

This guy should be recruited by the T O T to go along with the stupid tourist figures they pump out what an absolute load of <deleted>, if retailers sell at over 80 bht and get caught then revoke their bloody licence, and if 9.60 bht profit on one ticket is not enough ( 9,600 bht ) per 15days get out and find another job, most vendors only do it part time anyway, stop whinging you have had a pretty good run now its over live with it

[Manbing]

Typical Thai legislation.

A week ago it was a clear no lottery tickets to be sold sold over 80bht.

Now they retract and the situation is back to its original position. I can just see all those mobile vendors eclaring their taxable income too.

Pure lunacy, this attitude is endemic to the culture.

[BarnicaleBob]

Sounds like someone got paid off.

[ronaldo0]

The price was to be 80 bht!!! Now they are saying they have no problems with people charging more if they pay tax on it??

Then the final result if that happens will be the vendors will charge even more than before to cover their tax!!

[peterjackson]

In the UK a vendor is given a commission of 5% on Gross lottery sales. That's just one of the reasons to push for 'automation' of the system. The Thai sellers are saying 12% isn't enough. In Florida USA, the vendors get even less for selling the tickets.

[Lupatria]

The problem with this country is that every Tom, Dick and Harry makes his own interpretation of what should be a L A W!

[Lupatria]

It is rather sad to see that those in charge of the administration of a country, don't even have the skills and expertise to implement and run a simple lottery system while there are sooo many out there to copy from...

Even worse, it seems to be the same problem with the creation of a proper health and education system.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Lupatria

[LennyW]

This guy should be recruited by the T O T to go along with the stupid tourist figures they pump out what an absolute load of <deleted>, if retailers sell at over 80 bht and get caught then revoke their bloody licence, and if 9.60 bht profit on one ticket is not enough ( 9,600 bht ) per 15days get out and find another job, most vendors only do it part time anyway, stop whinging you have had a pretty good run now its over live with it

What has the telephone company got to do with it?

[shaurene]

What a stupid idea. The cost to do this will out way the tax collection. Typical brains.

[Anthony5]

The whole OP translated in one single line.

After a lot of poohaa by Mr Fixit and cohorts we still can't get a decades old simple law enforced.

[tracker1]

God help us ! they cant resolve a lottery issue what hope is there to solve the countries problems

[paddyjoe41]

My opinion is this,if the vender wants to charge more than the legal amount,SIMPLE DONT BUY.

[steveyinasia]

So they have discounted the sale to the 5 tigers to ensure they still get their cut and now they will try to tax the people that need the small amount of Baht earn from each ticket. Seem that the tigers are too big of a challenge to take on and must be linked to some higher authority. Corruption needs to be addressed before anything can be fixed in Thailand.

[sanuk711]

In the UK a vendor is given a commission of 5% on Gross lottery sales. That's just one of the reasons to push for 'automation' of the system. The Thai sellers are saying 12% isn't enough. In Florida USA, the vendors get even less for selling the tickets.

Do have a link for that peter ?...... not doubting you, (maybe you were a newsagent) just looked all through the Camelot site & got the idea it is a lot--lot less then that. All they seem to talk about is how the marketing of it helps the outlet & (their) figures are that 1 in 10 people come into your shop to buy a lotto ticket (& hopefully something else) also in the UK Camelot pays a prize to the vendor who sold the winning ticket(s) ---but once again do not state amounts.

Your right about the USA it varies --Texas gets 6%

Your also right that the Thai sellers are getting way above other countries--but it does seem to be always the same story here, some shopping centers sellers are getting a 50% mark up.....All governments allowed this before----but as soon as this Army government move to do something about this or anything, floods of letters about how stupid they are etc. Sure it will be messy to start with---all these deep routed graft scams are, but at least they are moving on it.

Edited June 6, 2015 by sanuk711

[Praematura]

After doing some research I believe the vendors pay 76 baht per ticket. How can they realistically live off of making 4 baht per sale?

[Ulic]

A great idea, tax the guys that sell, ya ice and yaba as well.

[Srikcir]

"This is a part of the measure to force retailers to do business as per the law". To me this means, selling lottery tickets for more than 80 Baht is against the law, right?

If I understand the director-general of Revenue Department correctly, his interpretation of the law means that breaking the law is ok as long as the illegally taken money is taxed - like the profit of a legal business.

Maybe this guy also thinks it's ok if somebody is robbed as long as he gets handed over his tax cut from the robber.

This revenue guy is really a pillar of "the society" he claims to work for.

Don't let him confuse you. With "the society" like in "pay back to the society" he means precisely and exclusively himself and the rest of his fellow tax eaters - Not you or me.

What an honorable man he is.

However, such duplicity is not unknown in other countries, including western democracies.

For example, use of marijuna might be lawful according to local law but against federal law. But the state will still tax the income derived from sales while reserving the right to bring charges for distriution.

[sanuk711]

After doing some research I believe the vendors pay 76 baht per ticket. How can they realistically live off of making 4 baht per sale?

If you are from the USA or the UK....

it seems the vendor would be getting 5% which is what on an 80 baht sale Pramaturua ???

[cracker1]

Now the Tax man is wanting a share of the mark up price the vendors are going to collect ?

What did the Tax man do all those years when the tickets were being sold between 100 and 130 baht ?

[Srikcir]

"the department will collect revenue tax on the amount exceeding Bt80 per ticket."

Just as a small technical matter. Doesn't the NLA have the legislative power to impose taxes, not a government department, not even a ministry? So unless the NLA passes a bill to tax the excess price or the NCPO issues a directive, the Revenue Department would be initiating an illegal law. How is that consistent with reforming Thai laws?

Then there are other minor issues such as identifying excess ticket prices. I'm sure vendors will be willing to produce receipts that every ticket was sold for Bt80. And given the probable low income street vendors derive from all ticket sales, I doubt they would fall into a high enough tax bracket to pay any additional tax.

Revenue Department resources might be better prioritized against wealthy income tax cheats. But I suspect given Prayut's attention to sale of lottery tickets, various government officials want to prove their merit by taking actions, no matter how trivial, to gain Prayut's praise and maybe reward. Such is government leadership under a one-man constituency.

[Basil B]

how do they plan on taxing a cash transaction ?

Guesstimate...

Very simple, estimate the number of tickets sold, by their selling price less 80B.

Could even backdate it a few months or even years...

Great start by the revenue department, how about Taxis not using their meters next.

The revenue department is Thailand's greatest weapon against racketeering and corruption and could be a very lucrative source of revenue for the cash strapped government.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Basil B

[Praematura]

After doing some research I believe the vendors pay 76 baht per ticket. How can they realistically live off of making 4 baht per sale?

If you are from the USA or the UK....

it seems the vendor would be getting 5% which is what on an 80 baht sale Pramaturua ???

I see your point about 5% it's a low margin item but based on the few people I talked to they are lucky to sell at least 25 a day. So that's 100 baht a day regardless of the margin. Let's say they sell twice that it still is only 200 baht or $6-7 a day. I can't imagine they can feed themselves or support a family.

[Basil B]

After doing some research I believe the vendors pay 76 baht per ticket. How can they realistically live off of making 4 baht per sale?

If you are from the USA or the UK....

it seems the vendor would be getting 5% which is what on an 80 baht sale Pramaturua ???

I see your point about 5% it's a low margin item but based on the few people I talked to they are lucky to sell at least 25 a day. So that's 100 baht a day regardless of the margin. Let's say they sell twice that it still is only 200 baht or $6-7 a day. I can't imagine they can feed themselves or support a family.

5% is the commission paid by UK lottery, if ticket sellers can not make enough sales then that means there are too many of them, or more to the point too many of them choosing to sell in the same place.

[BritTim]

As I understand it, registered vendors pay 70.40 baht per ticket. In some cases, they immediately resell them in bulk to unregistered sellers for 75-85 baht per ticket. This allows influential people, who can get large ticket allocations, to turn a quick profit for doing almost nothing.

The article contains a classic example of Thai arithmetic:

... the per-ticket profit of Bt9.60 are too little for them. When tickets were priced illegally at Bt100, or even Bt120 for much-wanted numbers, vendors enjoyed profits of Bt15 to Bt20 per ticket

For registered vendors, a ticket price of 120 baht means a profit of 49.60 baht. The point that selling a ticket for a high price means a higher profit is correct. I am indebted to Khun Preecha for pointing out this counter intuitive fact.

I am curious. The picture in the article suggests that there are actually vendors somewhere who sell tickets at the legal price of 80 baht. Personally, I have never witnessed this. Does anyone know of a vendor anywhere who actually does this?