Thailand to Scrap Nationwide Minimum Wage

[arrowsdawdle]

It really doesn't matter where you are in the world, the wealthy get richer and the poor get poorer.

Sooner or later something will cause a revolt.

The difference in 'civilized' societies is that the poor get poorer by choice, as they opt not to work in favor of receiving entitlement handouts, which is a far cry from indentured servitude.

[dageurreotype]

"The wage is not in line with current labour market situation or inflation rate"

This means the minimum wage will be reviewed. It may go up or it may go down.

The agenda driven would be all over this like white on rice with their illogical baseless arguments proclaiming doom and gloom under the NCPO.

I for one hope it does not go up again as this cost is transferred onto the price of goods and services. If the minimum wage was 1000 baht a day imagine the price of Tom Yum on the street!

Remember what yingluck said when the price of goods and services went up after the last minimum wage increase..."There is no inflation, you are imagining it due to the hot weather and the children returning to school". One word to describe that statement. Contempt. Goodness only knows what the doomers and gloomers reaction would have been if Prayut said that.

Well done to the government for aligning and linking the wage scale to economic conditions instead of a populist knee jerk reaction to win votes and make the price of my wife's Tom Yum go up. This increase negated any wage increase and works still got the same goods and services that they did before the wage hike.

​About time we had some sensible well thought out, planned and economically aligned proposals.

The National Minimum Wage in Singapore is the equivalent of 2,000 per day. I don't remember the food in Singapore being commensurately more expensive than that in Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

Returning happiness to the Thai bosses.....................

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

If all Thai workers were as unproductive and as lazy as you claim, the economy would be in shambles and there would be no manufacturing or provision of services in Thailand.

[dageurreotype]

They have to do something once ASEAN comes into effect Thai wages will be amongst the highest and we all know what that means. The rich will be filling their bags with money while the rest fight over scraps. Once the TPTP comes into effect more factories will be shuttered in America and the carpetbaggers will rush to Asia to set up shop. Cheap labor no pollution or labor laws its a paradise for big business. However the price of their products world wide will stay the same. Its called Capitalism

It's already been happening for at least two decades despite the TPTP. Where you been?

[dageurreotype]

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

If all Thai workers were as unproductive and as lazy as you claim, the economy would be in shambles and there would be no manufacturing or provision of services in Thailand.

I am a great supporter of equal opportunity and a fair living wage. However, even the Thais prefer to hire the Burmese/Khmer as they don't fiddle with their iPhones all day, snack/sleep nor job hop/endless 'mai sabai' days. Plus, the majority are lazy and stupid/ignorant. There are of course exceptions to this rule.

[geriatrickid]

like said by another pster, i would not pay most workers more than 300 thb for what they do. It's not worth it.

Many farangs have unrealistic expectations. Is it any wonder why some domestic staff use the same rag they cleaned the toilet with, to wash the dishes?

If one pays 300 baht per diem for child care, then one should have supplemental children in the pantry.

You know the old saying of getting what you pay for? It applies to Thai labour. Those of us who have knowledge of local skill sets and who understand the local job market know that quality workers are paid significantly more than the minimum. This is because there is a shortage of skilled labour in Thailand. Many employers supplement the basic minimum wages by providing good working conditions, meals, lodging, medical care and extra time off.

[dageurreotype]

It really doesn't matter where you are in the world, the wealthy get richer and the poor get poorer.

Sooner or later something will cause a revolt.

The difference in 'civilized' societies is that the poor get poorer by choice, as they opt not to work in favor of receiving entitlement handouts, which is a far cry from indentured servitude.

Stupid post. I'm supposing you've not heard of the UK's 'zero hours contracts' then?

[dageurreotype]

like said by another pster, i would not pay most workers more than 300 thb for what they do. It's not worth it.

Many farangs have unrealistic expectations. Is it any wonder why some domestic staff use the same rag they cleaned the toilet with, to wash the dishes?

If one pays 300 baht per diem for child care, then one should have supplemental children in the pantry.

You know the old saying of getting what you pay for? It applies to Thai labour. Those of us who have knowledge of local skill sets and who understand the local job market know that quality workers are paid significantly more than the minimum. This is because there is a shortage of skilled labour in Thailand. Many employers supplement the basic minimum wages by providing good working conditions, meals, lodging, medical care and extra time off.

Not quite true, my neighbour paid two Thai women 1500 baht each to clean his condo. He ended up having to do it himself. My 500 4 hour cleaner still hasn't shown up. I'm guessing her poodle's sick. Again.

[paulchiangmai]

Returning happiness to the Thai bosses.....................

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

Any boss that allows that to happen needs to downgrade his status and appoint a real boss who knows how to manage and delegate staff properly.

quote

And what will we do with the countless thousands that currently work in all the Big C's, Tesco's, Homepro's etc, etc, etc at a ratio of five being paid to every one working or even needed?

[LannaGuy]

kick in the teeth by the Jackboot of the elite

[DLock]

Guy's they are not scrapping the minimum wage ( there has been minimum wage since 1972) they are scrapping the national part and making it by province ( same as it was before Yingluck)

It may actually lead to a higher minimum in higher cost areas! And probably lower in lower cost areas.

Also any one else notice the Permanent guys name Silpa-Archer. One of slippery eels family!!!!

That's the way I read it.

When the 300 baht minimum wage was introduced, people in Bangkok were already at least at 300 baht per day, so they saw no increase in their daily wage, but people in the outer provinces suddenly received 50% or more increases. Bonus.

...and when prices inevitably went up, the provinces did ok, but Bangkokians, with higher cost of living lost out by comparison.

This rethink is probably a good thing. One size does not fit all.

After all, it was just a knee-jerk populist policy aimed at the masses to buy votes...

hey dlock, actually, the wording is a bit odd, what it says is that in 2013, the min wage in BKK was 300B/day...

That is because BKK and a few other provinces had their min wage increase first.

No where was the min-wage 300B/day before the new law...

You are correct.

I just know that we were paying well above 300baht before the minimum wage increase, but I do recall the MW was less than 300.

But BKK certainly didn't see the % raise that the provinces saw...and some who were already above 300 baht saw no increase, but suffered the rise in prices.

[georgehale]

Wages should be set by the market as should the price of rice or any commodity or service. Anytime a government attempts to regulate any segment of the economy things go badly. Government involvement is usually always an appeal or appeasement to gain favor or votes, buts ends up disrupting the smooth working of a free market driven economy, the rice scheme being a prime example.

Edited June 7, 2015 by georgehale

[Credo]

Maybe the minimum wage should be set by the market place, but this is a country where the marketplace includes people who are abducted and sold as slaves. It's not really a level playing field.

[rijit]

bullshit were talking what ide call not far short of slave labour rates. the free market historicaly abuses this end of the labour market. it strugles for help. why do u think a lot of corruption stems? poor wages people strugling to support their families on shit wages

[casualbiker]

like said by another pster, i would not pay most workers more than 300 thb for what they do. It's not worth it.

Many farangs have unrealistic expectations. Is it any wonder why some domestic staff use the same rag they cleaned the toilet with, to wash the dishes?

If one pays 300 baht per diem for child care, then one should have supplemental children in the pantry.

You know the old saying of getting what you pay for? It applies to Thai labour. Those of us who have knowledge of local skill sets and who understand the local job market know that quality workers are paid significantly more than the minimum. This is because there is a shortage of skilled labour in Thailand. Many employers supplement the basic minimum wages by providing good working conditions, meals, lodging, medical care and extra time off.

How many staff do you employ? As you state you have knowledge of the market and know that quality workers are paid more!

Off course skilled and semi skilled workers are paid more.. The daily wage rate is for unskilled workers!

[Praematura]

Issue should be earning a living wage because these people work 7 days a week 10-12 hours a day. Not a lot of extra time to get a 2nd job to make ends meet. With the gross income inequality the government must implement some kind of regulation.

Eventually those sitting fat with their trusts funds, investment accounts and other non-salaried income streams paying virtually no tax will squeeze the masses too much and the system will snap.

[stoli]

Samsung just spent 560 million baht on a new TV factory in Vietnam. The minimum wage in Vietnam is 50% less than the current minimum wage in Thailand. Samsung also just announced they are closing down all TV factories in Thailand, and will now make them in Vietnam. When things like this happen, governments have to respond, before all of the manufacturers leave. Companies, (I know, everyone wants to call them the Rich & Powerful), do have choices of where they build their factories, and provide jobs. If you have never owned a business in your life, using your own money, and just received paychecks all of your life, it is very difficult for you to understand what it takes to make a business successful. It all seems so easy, until it is your own money that you are investing. Living in a world of "us vs them" is self-defeating.

[hocuspocus]

Returning happiness to the Thai bosses.....................

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

Imagine if you were the boss of Home-Pro and you were paying about 100 per store to stand around all day who get under your feet all the time and dissapear when you want some help

Edited June 7, 2015 by hocuspocus

[mikemac]

Guy's they are not scrapping the minimum wage ( there has been minimum wage since 1972) they are scrapping the national part and making it by province ( same as it was before Yingluck)

It may actually lead to a higher minimum in higher cost areas! And probably lower in lower cost areas.

Also any one else notice the Permanent guys name Silpa-Archer. One of slippery eels family!!!!

That's the way I read it.

When the 300 baht minimum wage was introduced, people in Bangkok were already at least at 300 baht per day, so they saw no increase in their daily wage, but people in the outer provinces suddenly received 50% or more increases. Bonus.

...and when prices inevitably went up, the provinces did ok, but Bangkokians, with higher cost of living lost out by comparison.

This rethink is probably a good thing. One size does not fit all.

After all, it was just a knee-jerk populist policy aimed at the masses to buy votes...

The people who work on the rice farms in my wife's village outside of Surin did not receive the payrise, they were told 200 baht a day, take it or leave it, and they took it because they needed it.

I am sure that was the trend throughout Issan.

[mikemac]

Samsung just spent 560 million baht on a new TV factory in Vietnam. The minimum wage in Vietnam is 50% less than the current minimum wage in Thailand. Samsung also just announced they are closing down all TV factories in Thailand, and will now make them in Vietnam. When things like this happen, governments have to respond, before all of the manufacturers leave. Companies, (I know, everyone wants to call them the Rich & Powerful), do have choices of where they build their factories, and provide jobs. If you have never owned a business in your life, using your own money, and just received paychecks all of your life, it is very difficult for you to understand what it takes to make a business successful. It all seems so easy, until it is your own money that you are investing. Living in a world of "us vs them" is self-defeating.

Higher wages do have their downsides. Sometimes it is better to make a lower wage than nothing at all.

In Australia high wages are killing some industries and now we are seeing places like coal mines closing down and the employees offered their jobs back at a lowers wage rate.

This bubble had to burst sooner or later and it was not totally unexpected.

Shame to see Thailand losing lots of investment and jobs to neighboring countries because of a vote raising scheme.

[Srikcir]

“The human dignity, right, liberty and equality of the people shall be protected”:

Draft 2015 Constitution, Article 4

2014 Interim Charter, Article 4

2007 Constitution, Article 4

1997 Constitution, Article 4

EXCEPT when the Junta decides not every Thais will be EQUAL. What’s the point of having the protection of a constitution when the sovereignty of the people belongs solely to the military?

[dageurreotype]

Samsung just spent 560 million baht on a new TV factory in Vietnam. The minimum wage in Vietnam is 50% less than the current minimum wage in Thailand. Samsung also just announced they are closing down all TV factories in Thailand, and will now make them in Vietnam. When things like this happen, governments have to respond, before all of the manufacturers leave. Companies, (I know, everyone wants to call them the Rich & Powerful), do have choices of where they build their factories, and provide jobs. If you have never owned a business in your life, using your own money, and just received paychecks all of your life, it is very difficult for you to understand what it takes to make a business successful. It all seems so easy, until it is your own money that you are investing. Living in a world of "us vs them" is self-defeating.

So where does this end? Tell me. 10 baht per day would make Thailand very 'competitive' (weasel word), whilst the corporations continue to increase their profits.

So let them go exploit the poor sods in Vietnam until their government are forced to implement a living wage or face the inevitable consequences of social unrest and all that will bring.

Edited June 7, 2015 by dageurreotype

[Andreas2]

Let's assume you have a job to offer, no further skills or experience required, except maybe a little bit of honesty and reliability.
The value of the produced goods, added by this job, rises by 1'000 (whatever currency). You can afford to pay a salary of 900 for the job. With the remaining 100 you pay taxes etc. and end up with a profit of 10. And yes, you also need something to live of and take the risks.

Case 1: Minimum wage 1'000:
If the minimum wage is 1'000 there is no business case in offering this job. End of story. No job created, but at least all advocates of the minimum wage are happy, including you as nobody can call you an exploiter.

Case 2: Minimum wage 900:
Two applicants for the job, one of them also speaks English ("English" is just one example for any particular, not needed skill for your offered job). Even if the skill is actually not needed, maybe it offers interesting options for a later career in your company or your production process.
You will always prefer skilled, educated people as they provide you with options in the future - For free!
The applicant without skills has no way to compete against the skilled one. His only option: Continue looking for another job at 900 - As this is the minimum wage.
Of course, you will have the minimum wage squad all over you, accusing you of exploiting your new employee / colleague even if he has voluntarily taken the job.

Case 3: No minimum wage:
Two applicants, one of them has no "interesting skills", the other one has some, but they are not needed right now.
BUT NOW the "unskilled"/inexperienced applicant has at least one way to compete with the skilled one: He can voluntarily underprice his competitor for the job.
Let's say he offers his service for 850, the skilled one stays at 900. Now you have to decide if you pay the additional 50 for possible options in the future or increase your profit now from 10 to 60.
In this case, at least the "unskilled" applicant can deploy THE ONE tool he has: His/her price.

Conclusion:
To impose minimum wages against unskilled/inexperienced workers is highly counterproductive and immoral. It destroys their jobs - Automation, among other things, comes to mind.
The only way to better the lives of "unskilled" workers is to invite businesses with low qualification requirements. Growing, fierce competition among these businesses will rise the wages. Imposing minimum wages as the solution is completely and utterly counterproductive.

Of course, there would also be another, but longer and sustainable way to reduce the masses of unskilled workers: Improvement of the educational system. The serious problem with this solution: TIT.

I want to close my sermon with a joke.
Most readers here know the "low season" joke about Thai logic: If you cant sell a product or service, increase the price for it.
What the minimum wage crowd fails to see here: This joke is about them.

[DLock]

Let's assume you have a job to offer, no further skills or experience required, except maybe a little bit of honesty and reliability.

The value of the produced goods, added by this job, rises by 1'000 (whatever currency). You can afford to pay a salary of 900 for the job. With the remaining 100 you pay taxes etc. and end up with a profit of 10. And yes, you also need something to live of and take the risks.

Case 1: Minimum wage 1'000:

If the minimum wage is 1'000 there is no business case in offering this job. End of story. No job created, but at least all advocates of the minimum wage are happy, including you as nobody can call you an exploiter.

Case 2: Minimum wage 900:

Two applicants for the job, one of them also speaks English ("English" is just one example for any particular, not needed skill for your offered job). Even if the skill is actually not needed, maybe it offers interesting options for a later career in your company or your production process.

You will always prefer skilled, educated people as they provide you with options in the future - For free!

The applicant without skills has no way to compete against the skilled one. His only option: Continue looking for another job at 900 - As this is the minimum wage.

Of course, you will have the minimum wage squad all over you, accusing you of exploiting your new employee / colleague even if he has voluntarily taken the job.

Case 3: No minimum wage:

Two applicants, one of them has no "interesting skills", the other one has some, but they are not needed right now.

BUT NOW the "unskilled"/inexperienced applicant has at least one way to compete with the skilled one: He can voluntarily underprice his competitor for the job.

Let's say he offers his service for 850, the skilled one stays at 900. Now you have to decide if you pay the additional 50 for possible options in the future or increase your profit now from 10 to 60.

In this case, at least the "unskilled" applicant can deploy THE ONE tool he has: His/her price.

Conclusion:

To impose minimum wages against unskilled/inexperienced workers is highly counterproductive and immoral. It destroys their jobs - Automation, among other things, comes to mind.

The only way to better the lives of "unskilled" workers is to invite businesses with low qualification requirements. Growing, fierce competition among these businesses will rise the wages. Imposing minimum wages as the solution is completely and utterly counterproductive.

Of course, there would also be another, but longer and sustainable way to reduce the masses of unskilled workers: Improvement of the educational system. The serious problem with this solution: TIT.

I want to close my sermon with a joke.

Most readers here know the "low season" joke about Thai logic: If you cant sell a product or service, increase the price for it.

What the minimum wage crowd fails to see here: This joke is about them.

Quality post.

You get it...most don't.

[Thai at Heart]

Samsung just spent 560 million baht on a new TV factory in Vietnam. The minimum wage in Vietnam is 50% less than the current minimum wage in Thailand. Samsung also just announced they are closing down all TV factories in Thailand, and will now make them in Vietnam. When things like this happen, governments have to respond, before all of the manufacturers leave. Companies, (I know, everyone wants to call them the Rich & Powerful), do have choices of where they build their factories, and provide jobs. If you have never owned a business in your life, using your own money, and just received paychecks all of your life, it is very difficult for you to understand what it takes to make a business successful. It all seems so easy, until it is your own money that you are investing. Living in a world of "us vs them" is self-defeating.

I

U think the average worker in a Samsung TV factory is earning minimum..?

[buhi]

Returning happiness to the Thai bosses.....................

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

Imagine if you were the boss of Home-Pro and you were paying about 100 per store to stand around all day who get under your feet all the time and dissapear when you want some help

Too true. Back many years ago I used a bank sub branch; one person doing everything. Thailand at least ten people doing nothing. Well my bank now is wholly on line, just reality!

[willyumiii]

Returning happiness to the Thai bosses.....................

Try being a boss and having to pay 9000 for someone to sit around, most of the time sleep and when awake play on phone and see how happy you would be.

Keeping in mind the bad bosses usually have 3-5 of those for the job of one.

If Thai employers had the cajunas to terminate those who did not work, this would not be a problem and all that did work would benefit.

Show up late for work, spend an hour eating your breakfast, take a nap, break for lunch, play on facebook, go home early...your day is done!

Some stupid "face thing"......you would not want to embarrass some deadbeat who is driving cost up and production down.

It is much more comfortable to ignore the problem.

[casualbiker]

“The human dignity, right, liberty and equality of the people shall be protected”:

Draft 2015 Constitution, Article 4

2014 Interim Charter, Article 4

2007 Constitution, Article 4

1997 Constitution, Article 4

EXCEPT when the Junta decides not every Thais will be EQUAL. What’s the point of having the protection of a constitution when the sovereignty of the people belongs solely to the military?

The minimum wage was always subject to different rates in different provinces up until 2013, so all through the other governments under the constitutions it was a different rate in each province.

You're talking rubbish again.. Equality doesn't have to include wages, otherwise everybody would be on exactly the same wage..

Before 2011 Thai people didn't have equality of education until the military interim government extended free education from grade 6 (P6) to grade 9 (M3) and extended the university scholarship scheme, other previous governments didn't care !

[whatawonderfulday]

Well the looney general must be totally delusional if he thinks the "rule by the gun" will put down millions of disenfranchised voters by this proposal to axe the minimum wage. Unfortunately with the economy in a downward spiral due to lack of intelligent government ministers, the perceived persecution of the previous administration's official and now this, the future stability of Thailand looks very bleak. How soon will it be before Burma becomes amore attractive investment and living proposition to Thailand ?

[casualbiker]

Well the looney general must be totally delusional if he thinks the "rule by the gun" will put down millions of disenfranchised voters by this proposal to axe the minimum wage. Unfortunately with the economy in a downward spiral due to lack of intelligent government ministers, the perceived persecution of the previous administration's official and now this, the future stability of Thailand looks very bleak. How soon will it be before Burma becomes amore attractive investment and living proposition to Thailand ?

I wish people would learn to read before they spout!

There is NO proposal to "axe" or cancel the minimum wage.

Only to revert to the original province by province minimum wage that was in place before the national minimum wage ( not unlike the minimum wage in the USA)

FROM other posters it would seem that in reality it never really WAS a national wage anyway!