Minimum wage could only rise: Thai govt

[webfact]

Minimum wage could only rise: govt
ERICH PARPART,
PETCHANET PRATRUANGKRAI
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- THE GOVERNMENT yesterday said any change to the Bt300 daily minimum wage would see it increase, but suggested a more flexible wage policy could be introduced in the future.

Deputy permanent secretary Arrug Phrommanee, the Labour Ministry's spokesman, said reports that the Bt300 minimum wage had been scrapped in favour of floating it were misleading.

"At present, there is no cancellation of the Bt300 minimum wage. Any future adjustment will hinge on Bt300 being the base rate. Under no circumstance will the wage be below Bt300," he said.

Earlier reports stating that the Bt300 minimum wage had been scrapped drew much criticism from academics and labour groups.

The wage was a key election promise implemented by the government of Yingluck Shinawatra, which was ousted last year in the military coup staged by the current junta.

Arrug said no resolution had been reached on the minimum wage and relevant agencies were only discussing options studied by the National Institute of Development Administration and revealed during a seminar last Friday.

He did say, however, that the government viewed as unnecessary keeping a single minimum-wage rate for all the provinces.

A decision on the 2016 minimum-wage adjustments will be made in October, he said.

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday that the "lump-sum wage rate" was not feasible because there would be "no money" to pay for it and employers would refrain from hiring people.

"Now, where will the money come from to pay for a wage [increase]? We should allow time for [businesses] to build their strength," he said.

"As I have said, whoever wants to raise their wage must go to the Labour Ministry to test their [skill] qualifications."

Prayut said foreign labourers had reaped most of the benefits from the Bt300 wage policy and any increase would lure more of them because wages in their own countries were lower, with scores of Thais shunning the work. "We are building our strength to persuade more investment. The Bt300 wage is already hard enough" for employers to meet, the prime minister said.

Hugh Vanijprabha, chairman of the Thai European Business Association's Aerospace Committee, said the Bt300 minimum wage had "hardly affected" European investors in the Kingdom as they normally paid more than the minimum to attract quality workers with high skill sets.

European operators pay more

"European operators here pay more than Bt300 anyway and they are not here for cheap labour," he said.

He said it was unclear whether cancelling the Bt300 minimum wage would help the economy and suggested the government should concentrate on increasing the competitiveness of the country's economy in other ways.

He said Thailand should move away from trying to be attractive in terms of labour costs and head towards a value-added and innovative economy. Hugh warned that social problems such as corruption and crime might worsen if the minimum wage were lowered.

Saha Group chairman Boonsithi Chokwatana said consumer purchasing power remained "soft", so the government should maintain the minimum wage and the value-added tax at the current 7 per cent, since any adjustment during an economic slowdown would affect the cost of living.

He said the giant consumer-goods group expected no sales growth this year because of the country's weak economy and poor domestic consumption and would like to see a weaker baht to boost exports.

The company has delayed its investment in Myanmar and shifted to a special economic zone at border city Mae Sot, Boonsithi said.

Leigh Scott-Kemmis, president of the Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce, said the government should tackle the problem of a skilled-labour shortage and try to find ways to move up the manufacturing value chain to create value-added products, as investors were already looking elsewhere for cheap labour.

"The Bt300 minimum-wage policy is never a problem for Australian manufacturers since they are not in the lower end of the manufacturing line and they no longer see Thailand as a low-value production hub any more," he said. "Their main concern is to gain access to skilled labour, not cheaper labour."

Scott-Kemmis said the government should concentrate on improving the skills of employees in the infrastructure sector and praised Thai companies for leading the way to help achieve this by working with local educational institutions.

Sanan Angubolkul, vice chairman of the Board of Trade and the Thai Chamber of Commerce (TCC), said that before any adjustment of the minimum wage was made the matter should be discussed and agreed to by a tripartite committee composed of representatives from the government, employers and employees. Sanan said this would prevent problems reoccurring, as when the cost of labour increased but productivity did not and consumers faced a higher cost of living.

To measure the opinions of Chamber of Commerce members from each region, he said the TCC had distributed a questionnaire to enterprises nationwide, as wages and living costs varied and the matter should be considered carefully.

He said the minimum wage should be based on the productivity of labourers and the living costs in each province.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Minimum-wage-could-only-rise-govt-30261906.html


-- The Nation 2015-06-09

[ezzra]

Sure, go on and raise the minimum wage to the point that employers will not be able to afford

the salary any more without raising production cost and pass the raise on to the consumers,

As it is now, Thailand is no longer comparative wage wise with the surrounding labor markets,

raising the minimum wage further will only make a bad situation worse.... what more, even if the

minimum wage will be at 500 baht, it will be still, not enough to people who has no idea

how to save or manage their money, and Thai people are not known for either be frugal in

saving or blowing their earnings on frivolous things...

[baboon]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

[geriatrickid]

Too funny. Now it embarks on a desperate attempt to backpedal. It could have said this at the start if that was really its intention.

Old saying: Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself. The General and his entourage are learning as they go along.

[tbthailand]

"As I have said, whoever wants to raise their wage must go to the Labour Ministry to test their [skill] qualifications."

OK, so now the General has made it clear that he doesn't understand why the minimum wage exists...

[tbthailand]

Too funny. Now it embarks on a desperate attempt to backpedal. It could have said this at the start if that was really its intention.

Old saying: Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself. The General and his entourage are learning as they go along.

backpedaling seems to be the only possible explanation for the jumbled statements in the OP...

[rubl]

So, it would seem posters are not happy. Well, so what?

What is a pity is that the minimum wage setting of 300 Baht / day was not accompanied with subsidies encouraging companies to improve, to raise productivity. SME seem to count for 60% of the lower level workforce, but government assistance is aimed at larger companies mostly. That was so before, that does not seem to have changed.

BTW is 300 Baht / day enforced?

[JAG]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

Outstanding simile. ☺ Edited June 9, 2015 by JAG

[mikemac]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

And what would you do babs ? You seem pretty good at criticizing the government for their actions/inactions so you must have a better plan.

Personally, I don't think a Military government in any country could organize a chook raffle, (they cannot even run or control their own people in the army/navy/air force) but at least I have what I consider a constructive plan regarding the minimum wage issue.

After seeing first hand what the crazy high wages did to Australia I would not let it go above 300 baht for now for a number of reasons.

The main one being that the cost of essentials like food would rise, and the wage rise would be used as an excuse even if it did not apply.

What happens then is that a lot of people who don't benefit from a pay increase are forced to pay more for food at the market.

Another reason is the fact that a lot of people will miss out on the 300 baht minimum wage simply because the employers just won't pay it. The rice farming sector is a classic example. A lot of people are still only getting 200 baht a day because that is all the farmers will pay, take it or leave it.

Also foreign investment can be lost to neighboring countries which means a loss of jobs etc.

[h90]

Sure, go on and raise the minimum wage to the point that employers will not be able to afford

the salary any more without raising production cost and pass the raise on to the consumers,

As it is now, Thailand is no longer comparative wage wise with the surrounding labor markets,

raising the minimum wage further will only make a bad situation worse.... what more, even if the

minimum wage will be at 500 baht, it will be still, not enough to people who has no idea

how to save or manage their money, and Thai people are not known for either be frugal in

saving or blowing their earnings on frivolous things...

well you can rise the minimum wage and at the same time devalue the Baht. Will keep the companies the same competitive as now, but will make imports more expensive. Basically taking money from the wealthy.

[baboon]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

And what would you do babs ? You seem pretty good at criticizing the government for their actions/inactions so you must have a better plan.

Personally, I don't think a Military government in any country could organize a chook raffle, (they cannot even run or control their own people in the army/navy/air force) but at least I have what I consider a constructive plan regarding the minimum wage issue.

After seeing first hand what the crazy high wages did to Australia I would not let it go above 300 baht for now for a number of reasons.

The main one being that the cost of essentials like food would rise, and the wage rise would be used as an excuse even if it did not apply.

What happens then is that a lot of people who don't benefit from a pay increase are forced to pay more for food at the market.

Another reason is the fact that a lot of people will miss out on the 300 baht minimum wage simply because the employers just won't pay it. The rice farming sector is a classic example. A lot of people are still only getting 200 baht a day because that is all the farmers will pay, take it or leave it.

Also foreign investment can be lost to neighboring countries which means a loss of jobs etc.

What would I do? Good question... Probably let things stay the way they are and keep my mouth shut, to be honest.

[TheAppletons]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

And what would you do babs ? You seem pretty good at criticizing the government for their actions/inactions so you must have a better plan.

Personally, I don't think a Military government in any country could organize a chook raffle, (they cannot even run or control their own people in the army/navy/air force) but at least I have what I consider a constructive plan regarding the minimum wage issue.

After seeing first hand what the crazy high wages did to Australia I would not let it go above 300 baht for now for a number of reasons.

The main one being that the cost of essentials like food would rise, and the wage rise would be used as an excuse even if it did not apply.

What happens then is that a lot of people who don't benefit from a pay increase are forced to pay more for food at the market.

Another reason is the fact that a lot of people will miss out on the 300 baht minimum wage simply because the employers just won't pay it. The rice farming sector is a classic example. A lot of people are still only getting 200 baht a day because that is all the farmers will pay, take it or leave it.

Also foreign investment can be lost to neighboring countries which means a loss of jobs etc.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!

On the other hand, if someone has the audacity to disagree with or says something mean about RUISS (Ruler-Until-I-Say-So), then you'd better believe the law will be enforced.

It's about priorities, man!

[h90]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

And what would you do babs ? You seem pretty good at criticizing the government for their actions/inactions so you must have a better plan.

Personally, I don't think a Military government in any country could organize a chook raffle, (they cannot even run or control their own people in the army/navy/air force) but at least I have what I consider a constructive plan regarding the minimum wage issue.

After seeing first hand what the crazy high wages did to Australia I would not let it go above 300 baht for now for a number of reasons.

The main one being that the cost of essentials like food would rise, and the wage rise would be used as an excuse even if it did not apply.

What happens then is that a lot of people who don't benefit from a pay increase are forced to pay more for food at the market.

Another reason is the fact that a lot of people will miss out on the 300 baht minimum wage simply because the employers just won't pay it. The rice farming sector is a classic example. A lot of people are still only getting 200 baht a day because that is all the farmers will pay, take it or leave it.

Also foreign investment can be lost to neighboring countries which means a loss of jobs etc.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!

On the other hand, if someone has the audacity to disagree with or says something mean about RUISS (Ruler-Until-I-Say-So), then you'd better believe the law will be enforced.

It's about priorities, man!

Companies will not pay it by: taking cheaper labor from Cambodia or Myanmar, by replacing labor with machines, by moving to other countries or by just closing down the business.

At the end the lowest labor will get zero Baht instead of 250 Baht.

[mikemac]

Too funny. Now it embarks on a desperate attempt to backpedal. It could have said this at the start if that was really its intention.

Old saying: Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself. The General and his entourage are learning as they go along.

backpedaling seems to be the only possible explanation for the jumbled statements in the OP...

Sorry, but which part did you find "jumbled" ? I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely interested.

Although this statement was translated from Thai to English by someone whose first language was probably Thai I thought it was a lot clearer than some of the insane, rambling statements issued by the government.

And remember this 300 baht egg was laid by Yingluck and co. and the present government inherited it, along with other goodies.

[Scouse123]

So, it would seem posters are not happy. Well, so what?

What is a pity is that the minimum wage setting of 300 Baht / day was not accompanied with subsidies encouraging companies to improve, to raise productivity. SME seem to count for 60% of the lower level workforce, but government assistance is aimed at larger companies mostly. That was so before, that does not seem to have changed.

BTW is 300 Baht / day enforced?

I agree with you on some of the above comments regards productivity and companies as well as those already implementing the 300 baht wage.

300 baht is not a lot of money by any means but they must take into account the price of goods and services produced by their competitors in such as Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos which the Thais just do not seem to understand.

A lot of low skilled jobs being filled now in Thailand are filled by Burmese and Cambodians, not because there is a shortage of Thai labour,that is an urban myth! it's because the Thais are too lazy or think it is beneath them to do it. They would sooner beg, steal and borrow.Why they think this is satisfactory is beyond me.

In Isaarn, they are mostly all well aware of the 300 baht a day minimum wage and love quoting it, they don't seem to be aware of arriving to work on time, putting in a days efforts without stopping every five minutes to eat, smoke, or drink the local white whisky.

I also agree with the poster who mentions 500 baht will nort be enough, it won't until they get the " work ethic and priorities " sorted out. They are lousy savers, lousy at budgeting or living within their means. They prefer ' borrowing ' which also seems to mean in Thai, not giving back.

Labour wise, they need to watch as they are pricing themselves out of the market.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Scouse123

[mikemac]

How can this government claim it has this road map when it is arguing with the wife as it circles a roundabout in a suburb somewhere?

And what would you do babs ? You seem pretty good at criticizing the government for their actions/inactions so you must have a better plan.

Personally, I don't think a Military government in any country could organize a chook raffle, (they cannot even run or control their own people in the army/navy/air force) but at least I have what I consider a constructive plan regarding the minimum wage issue.

After seeing first hand what the crazy high wages did to Australia I would not let it go above 300 baht for now for a number of reasons.

The main one being that the cost of essentials like food would rise, and the wage rise would be used as an excuse even if it did not apply.

What happens then is that a lot of people who don't benefit from a pay increase are forced to pay more for food at the market.

Another reason is the fact that a lot of people will miss out on the 300 baht minimum wage simply because the employers just won't pay it. The rice farming sector is a classic example. A lot of people are still only getting 200 baht a day because that is all the farmers will pay, take it or leave it.

Also foreign investment can be lost to neighboring countries which means a loss of jobs etc.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!

On the other hand, if someone has the audacity to disagree with or says something mean about RUISS (Ruler-Until-I-Say-So), then you'd better believe the law will be enforced.

It's about priorities, man!

........................"Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!"...................

Your pissweak swipe at the government makes you look like the ankle-nipping lap dog that you are.

What government, past or present, do you think is going to enforce the law in Bumf**k, Issan on a rice farm in the middle of nowhere ? Do you really think the Shin regimes would have enforced it ? If so you know nothing about Thailand.

The farmers and contractors out there pay what they like, and you can like it or lump it, because there is always someone else who will work for 200 baht a day.

The rest of your comment is just drivel copied and pasted from the Little Red Drivel Book.

[TheAppletons]

........................"Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!"...................

Your pissweak swipe at the government makes you look like the ankle-nipping lap dog that you are.

What government, past or present, do you think is going to enforce the law in Bumf**k, Issan on a rice farm in the middle of nowhere ? Do you really think the Shin regimes would have enforced it ? If so you know nothing about Thailand.

The farmers and contractors out there pay what they like, and you can like it or lump it, because there is always someone else who will work for 200 baht a day.

The rest of your comment is just drivel copied and pasted from the Little Red Drivel Book.

Ha ha. I love how your posts almost always have to try to categorize people. Either the poster agrees with your bizarre view of the world or the poster is a "red this" or "Shin that."

Try to see the world a little less rigidly there, MacK. May I call you MacK, MacK?

"Ankle-nipping lap dog", lol. If nothing else, MacK, your posts are great for comedic relief on these forums as most of what you write is farcical at best. Keep up the funny stuff, MacK, you're on a roll.

[Thai at Heart]

Wages should be set by the market as should the price of rice or any commodity or service. Anytime a government attempts to regulate any segment of the economy things go badly. Government involvement is usually always an appeal or appeasement to gain favor or votes, buts ends up disrupting the smooth working of a free market driven economy, the rice scheme being a prime example.

And the banking crisis being a prime example of free market consequences.

Indeed, some Fox News watchers need to grasp that an optimal market outcome may not be the socially correct one.

The market might force every one yo work for less than what it costs to feed oneself, but that does not mean that the result is what u want not should have to accept.

Importing millions of foreign labor was happening before 300

[Emster23]

"He said Thailand should move away from trying to be attractive in terms of labour costs and head towards a value-added and innovative economy." (good luck with that one, considering educational standards) " Hugh warned that social problems such as corruption and crime might worsen if the minimum wage were lowered." Wages up, wages down.... one constant is corruption and crime (is there a difference, btw?)

Higher wages passed on as increased cost to consumers. Yes, but hey, higher wages means they can consume more, doesn't it? Enforcement of anti corruption would more than offset any increase in wages. I also like comment about European companies typically paying more than 300 a day.... how do they do it? Good management?

[mikemac]

........................"Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!"...................

Your pissweak swipe at the government makes you look like the ankle-nipping lap dog that you are.

What government, past or present, do you think is going to enforce the law in Bumf**k, Issan on a rice farm in the middle of nowhere ? Do you really think the Shin regimes would have enforced it ? If so you know nothing about Thailand.

The farmers and contractors out there pay what they like, and you can like it or lump it, because there is always someone else who will work for 200 baht a day.

The rest of your comment is just drivel copied and pasted from the Little Red Drivel Book.

Ha ha. I love how your posts almost always have to try to categorize people. Either the poster agrees with your bizarre view of the world or the poster is a "red this" or "Shin that."

Try to see the world a little less rigidly there, MacK. May I call you MacK, MacK?

"Ankle-nipping lap dog", lol. If nothing else, MacK, your posts are great for comedic relief on these forums as most of what you write is farcical at best. Keep up the funny stuff, MacK, you're on a roll.

Congratulations, you managed to type all that dribble without saying one word about your comment that I responded to.

So, what about it ? You stated - ........................"Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!"...................

That was a veiled jibe at the Junta, meaning what ? Do you want to explain that or was it just a gee-up ?

And does anyone who does not agree with you have a bizarre view of the world ?

Actually after reading your last post I don't think you are a red or Shin supporter, just another dime a dozen troll.

[TheAppletons]

Congratulations, you managed to type all that dribble without saying one word about your comment that I responded to.

So, what about it ? You stated - ........................"Yeah, you wouldn't want to enforce the law or anything - that would be crazy!"...................

That was a veiled jibe at the Junta, meaning what ? Do you want to explain that or was it just a gee-up ?

And does anyone who does not agree with you have a bizarre view of the world ?

Actually after reading your last post I don't think you are a red or Shin supporter, just another dime a dozen troll.

I meant this, MacK (but you knew that....you like to play the "obtuse poster" role for comedic effect, I know):

"The National Wage Committee's resolution to float minimum wage beginning next year will be a disadvantage for workers, a research director of labour development of Thailand Development Research Institute (TDRI) Dr Yongyuth Chalamwong said.

The researcher said although floating the minimum wage will clearly define economy of each region, but it will be a disadvantage for workers as at present wage structure remains unclear.

He said what the government should do right now was to quickly solve the problem of workers who still do not receive the 300-baht minimum wage."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/831583-tdri-says-floating-thai-minimum-wage-is-a-disadvantage-for-workers/

(Great post again, though, MacK. Your propensity for name-calling makes your argument so much stronger, MacK. Keep up the good work, MacK!)

[Nobb]

If it does it will be higher than other Asian countries and all will be in the same market. Many Thai companies already hire Mrymar people to work for them at a cheaper wage. How do you raise the wage and lose business. Words only to try to make Thai workers happy. It will not happen soon or even if ever!

[Shiver]

There's that saying of "Economists do not use mathematics in the same way as Physicists or Biologists".

I would say that a free market system would be best (although I concede that truly free markets tend to be volatile, and also there's the migrant sweat shop exploitation issue to consider). Now that a minimum wage has been set then I guess it can't really be undone, and if their goal really is to get skilled labour then the minimum wage would likely not impact that sector at all.

The work ethic here appears not to be the same as some surrounding countries though. A wage rise motivates for a couple of weeks until you find some other 'essential' that you take out a loan on to keep up with the Jones', and pulling a rug from under them will do more damage than good. I'd say keep the minimum wage now that it has already been set, but don't think about increasing it at all for several years to come.

I really think economists (as a generalisation - there are some very insightful ones as well) don't take into account human behaviour. Also, call me a cynic, but Gov't policies the world over seem to be about preserving Gov't rather than genuinely looking after the peoples interests. A small Gov't just to nudge things in the right direction rather than draconian rule would ensure their popularity also, but only for a small group of dedicated Civil Servants, and not for world domination.

[DM07]

Sure, go on and raise the minimum wage to the point that employers will not be able to afford

the salary any more without raising production cost and pass the raise on to the consumers,

As it is now, Thailand is no longer comparative wage wise with the surrounding labor markets,

raising the minimum wage further will only make a bad situation worse.... what more, even if the

minimum wage will be at 500 baht, it will be still, not enough to people who has no idea

how to save or manage their money, and Thai people are not known for either be frugal in

saving or blowing their earnings on frivolous things...

I am sure, that partly, employers can not pay a fair wage to their workers, because they employ an army of airheads with no skills and no ambition, other than playing with their phones or freshening up the make- up, while the few customers are looking for some qualified help!

Replace these mouthbreeders with willing and able employees and pay them a fair wage.

Everybody's happy and the buffoons with no work- ethic will have to actually struggle, for ones in their live and hopefully learn something!

Everybody wins!

[MyFriend You]

There's that saying of "Economists do not use mathematics in the same way as Physicists or Biologists".

I would say that a free market system would be best (although I concede that truly free markets tend to be volatile, and also there's the migrant sweat shop exploitation issue to consider). Now that a minimum wage has been set then I guess it can't really be undone, and if their goal really is to get skilled labour then the minimum wage would likely not impact that sector at all.

The work ethic here appears not to be the same as some surrounding countries though. A wage rise motivates for a couple of weeks until you find some other 'essential' that you take out a loan on to keep up with the Jones', and pulling a rug from under them will do more damage than good. I'd say keep the minimum wage now that it has already been set, but don't think about increasing it at all for several years to come.

I really think economists (as a generalisation - there are some very insightful ones as well) don't take into account human behaviour. Also, call me a cynic, but Gov't policies the world over seem to be about preserving Gov't rather than genuinely looking after the peoples interests. A small Gov't just to nudge things in the right direction rather than draconian rule would ensure their popularity also, but only for a small group of dedicated Civil Servants, and not for world domination.

So you are saying "Figures don't lie, but Liar's Figure.............I once talked to a German resturant owner and he pays his waitresses 200baht a 10 hr shift - 'and puts 100 baht away for them so they have somehing to take with them when they quit. On the books, they get 300 baht a day in reality they only get 200 baht. Ceative Finance at its best.

[khunpa]

This is so funny to read...

We have recently moved our profitable and solid business out of Thailand... Why?

- Poor Educational Skills.

- Poor English Skills.

- Too high salary demands, due to lack of skilled employees within our field.

- Harassment from the government (Revenue Department) because we used foreign staff, because we could not find qualified Thai-staff for the jobs.

So now we are doing business in another nearby country, who actually appreciates us doing business there. No stupid rules regarding foreign ownership, minimum amount of local employees, work permits, visas etc.

Thailands minimim wage will only go one way... DOWN! Because there are so many countries with much lower wages, where people are actually much better educated, skilled and most important of all.... Want and like to work.

[Cake Monster]

Any raise in wages should be linked to increased productivity, as in the developed world.

But TIT

[AleG]

A problem with the flat wage throughout the country is that it removes an incentive to create industries in the more isolated or less developed provinces.

Why would an investor open, let's say a doodah factory in Phayao, if they could do it in Chonburi where they would have much better infrastructure support if the wages to be paid are the same in both places?