Yingluck misses date with NACC, claims 'urgent business'

[halloween]

I don't dismiss them.

So-called well documented irregularities. The Opposition will have every opportunity to convince the electorate.

The electorate will dismiss if they are invalid, or turf the bums if they are valid.

Comes down to faith in a Democratic system, without prejudice to the electoral majority.

Not complicated.

The opposition shouldn't have to convince the electorate years down the track. Regulatory bodies are present in western democracies to PREVENT abuse of office from occurring and punish those who attempt to do so.

What is "so-called" about PTP MPs being paid, Thaksin being allowed access to cabinet meetings, and blatant conflicts of interest? In western democracies MPs are jailed for accepting one-off payments, even gifts, insider trading is a serious crime, and recusal is mandatory in conflict issues.

[zaphod reborn]

Doesn't the NACC know that posting pictures of tending to her mushrooms on facebook is more urgent than answering to charges of corruption?

[mikemac]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

Maybe another reason why reforms are needed so badly, this agency was obviously obstructed from doing their job

Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption.

Whether that helped or obstructed would be up to you to decide.

Robby, your sarcasm is getting better and better every day !

[Nickymaster]

Before you start equating the last "democratic government" here to western democracies, ask yourself in how many of those MPs are

allowed to accept regular and substantial payments to vote to the order of a fugitive criminal,

how many allow the same criminal access to cabinet meetings and to dictate policy, and how many will propose legislation with

blatant conflicts of interest without a single recusal.

Then you might consider what the check and balance regulatory bodies in those western democracies would do should such a situation develop. If your answer is wait for the next election, you are deluding yourself, or worse.

A clear example of what I referenced.....characterizing electoral Opposition rhetoric as gospel.

Waiting for the next election is not delusional....It is trust in a Democratic, electoral approach...as messy as that might be. Alternatives are worse.

Erdogan in Turkey found that out.....The wisdom of the electorate was good to see. Considering the Thai electorate any less is unfair to Thailand and its people.

Elections and vote buying are just a ticket to wealth for some. Mislead and buy the underprivileged masses in order to get their votes is a common practice among the corrupt in this world. But..even Blatter didn't survive this game. This should have been a wake up call.

But why you never mention corruption, conflict of interest, nepotism, getting rid of checks and balances, no transparency and a parliament that is used as a rubber stamp for corruption? Do you know that when puppet Yingluck was 'leading' Thailand she answered 2 out of 122 questions the opposition had asked her....?

These ARE the reasons the Shin clan is slowly being kicked out of Thailand.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Nickymaster

[Robby nz]

I accept that this is fact, if it is...No problem...Doesn't invalidate my post at all....My point is that agencies with the power to depose Govts. and Prime Ministers with no accountability to the electorate is undemocratic...Who are they accountable to is my concern.

I am not surprised that an elected Govt. will seek to reduce such powers, on behalf of the electorate.....Perhaps it was part of their election platform, and they are obliged to carry out such actions when elected on such a platform.

Your post is completely wrong.

The NACC (and others) is beholden to the law and is in place to keep a check on those who would subvert the law.

According to you the courts would also be undemocratic because they were not subject to an election.

The NACC as the name suggests has a duty to investigate corruption and it also has a branch specifically for dealing with corruption by political office holders.

Politicians are also answerable to the law and should they break any law whether it is through corruption or anything else the fact that they are elected is no defense.

How on earth can curbing the powers of an organization that is tasked with investigating corruption by reducing their budget help to combat corruption.

In order to combat corruption a Govt must use the expertise of the groups that are in place for that job not attempt to prevent them doing their job.

Unless of course that Govt itself is corrupt then it has an interest in preventing investigation.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The amount paid out by the former government in these cases is kind of suspicious...

The former minister also defended the amount - Bt7 million - paid to the families of each person killed as not being too high as human life is priceless.

Really, life is priceless in Thailand??? Not when people killed in car crashes and similar circs seem to usually get not more than a couple hundred thousand to 500,000 baht in insurance or at fault party compensation to their survivors....

7 million baht / $212,000 U.S. compensation for being a Thai killed in Thailand is a pretty darned high amount, compared to what is normally handed out.

[rubl]

Must be really urgent business when yesterday the planned date of today must be missed because of it.

Pity Ms. Yingluck's legal council didn't elaborate on it. Maybe we'll get some more on Ms. Yingluck's facebook page? Maybe someone will post a picture of seeing Ms. Yingluck while on urgent business today. what with all mobile phone cameras Ms. Yingluck better stay home for her urgent business.

[rubl]

Some things never change. Still packed up in her box next to Barbie heay.

The only unemployed person with urgent business and with her as an example people wonder why the Red Bull Ferrari driver that killed the policeman was "sick" in Singapore and unable to travel.

When the ex PM sets the example people tend to follow suit.

She was useless when she was PM and she is still useless now.

The Red Bull Heirs little missed encounter with the law, on a pretty clear cut criminal matter, took place sometime before NACC started proceedings against Yingluck, he can hardly be said to be following her example now can he?

The Red Bull Heirs case involves a simple criminal matter. He is, in one of your favourite phrases a "fugitive from justice".This case is brought by a man in a political position who is an avowed enemy of Yingluck, her government, the party she represents and the process by which it came to power. That rather makes it political. That also rather suggests that the verdict is a foregone conclusion. By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial. That I suggest is really why they, and I suspect you, are upset.

"By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial."

She didn't 'not attend', she asked for and was granted permission for delay. As for "show trial", well your words showing your opinion. Personally I wasn't aware the press was invited.

[anon467367354]

how is it that there are no repercussions for disobeying a direct order?

If she does it again she gets another 15 days before anything happens???

[rametindallas]

I accept that this is fact, if it is...No problem...Doesn't invalidate my post at all....My point is that agencies with the power to depose Govts. and Prime Ministers with no accountability to the electorate is undemocratic...Who are they accountable to is my concern.

I am not surprised that an elected Govt. will seek to reduce such powers, on behalf of the electorate.....Perhaps it was part of their election platform, and they are obliged to carry out such actions when elected on such a platform.

My point is that agencies with the power to depose Govts. and Prime Ministers with no accountability to the electorate is undemocratic..

I am not surprised that an elected Govt. will seek to reduce such powers, on behalf of the electorate.

You mean you don't want an independent judiciary and that the courts should rubber stamp any democratically elected government? What country are you from? Russia? North Korea?

Adolph Hitler won 40% of the electorate because his opposition was split. Even though he didn't have the support of 60% of the population, he used his 'democratic' control to stifle ALL checks and balances on his NAZI party. Seems that's what you are advocating.

.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Perhaps she needed to stay at home to catch the discounted long distance calling hours for calls to Dubai??? After all, those are probably pretty LONG phone conversations...

[geriatrickid]

Payment for Thaksin's footsoldiers, nothing more nothing less. Instead of Dr.T using state money for his dead terrorists, if he used his own stash of hidden gadzillions, nobody would be batting an eyelid. Typical Thaksin, his own meanness causing him yet more trouble.

The payments were made to surviving family members, many of whom were not affiliated with the political disturbances. Payments were made to families of people who had no relationship with the UDD. None of the deceased was a convicted criminal.

Can you name one of the deceased people who's family received compensation who was a "foot soldier" or even a criminal?

[catterwell]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

Maybe another reason why reforms are needed so badly, this agency was obviously obstructed from doing their job

Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption.

Whether that helped or obstructed would be up to you to decide.

The NACC budget was cut by 60% from FY2013

[baboon]

Some things never change. Still packed up in her box next to Barbie heay.

The only unemployed person with urgent business and with her as an example people wonder why the Red Bull Ferrari driver that killed the policeman was "sick" in Singapore and unable to travel.

When the ex PM sets the example people tend to follow suit.

She was useless when she was PM and she is still useless now.

The Red Bull Heirs little missed encounter with the law, on a pretty clear cut criminal matter, took place sometime before NACC started proceedings against Yingluck, he can hardly be said to be following her example now can he?

I wouldn't put it past some of the cranks on here to believe a certain family are manipulating history by means of a Tardis. Some of their other views are no less outlandish...

[tifino]

dunno what the current hassle is? A Representative was in attendance, and was she expected to make any Plea (as in:Guilty or No) at this time?

But Yes, she could (Should?) have appeared In Camera/Internet Conference etc

Edited June 10, 2015 by tifino

[Artisi]

This attack on previous Govt. policy and personages by the anti-democrats, along with retroactive impeachment nonsense, seems to garner some support from those originating in countries with solid Democracy traditions.......continues to baffle me.

It totally ignores the Democratic principle of submitting all these so-called sins generated by the previous Parliamentary opposition to the electorate...Turf the bums if all of this has substance.

Taking Opposition mantra's as gospel, and suggesting they are truths that ought to be adopted by the country at large is being sufficient to demonize an elected Govt. to the point of deposing them by means other than an election, is anti-democratic mantra's at the extreme.

Can you imagine taking Canadian, Australian, UK, etc. Parliamentary opposition stuff as being the final arbiter of any elected Govt's legitimacy.

But for some, they think it is OK for Thailand...A double standard if I ever saw one. They espouse the Thai minority Opposition stuff as legitimizing non-electoral measures.

It gets back to my point, that the color differentiation of the political divide in Thailand is not valid anymore....Now it is simply anti-Democrat vs. Democracy.......All political commentary can be slotted into one of those two catagories.

IMHO

Before you start equating the last "democratic government" here to western democracies, ask yourself in how many of those MPs are allowed to accept regular and substantial payments to vote to the order of a fugitive criminal, how many allow the same criminal access to cabinet meetings and to dictate policy, and how many will propose legislation with blatant conflicts of interest without a single recusal.

Then you might consider what the check and balance regulatory bodies in those western democracies would do should such a situation develop. If your answer is wait for the next election, you are deluding yourself, or worse.

Just to note--newbie lashing out----coincidence ?? a replacement ?? just take all the newbies over the last year, the biggest % are anti army--pro Shin

of course entitled to an opinion, but strange about the old Shin guard leaving TVF----and this new lot homing in.

Stands out a mile posters most are well aware of these tactics to try to disrupt difficult Thailand times. The Thai people now are more aware, so you few can carry on the good work in opposition.

I look at facebook her photos of late are Mushrooms----otop shops----buying from local markets----all dressed up to the nines makeovers the lot-----but too busy to attend ha ha ha

You are correct about all the newbies popping up - not unlike born-again-Christians - always promoting the true cause / doctrine / word of the lord and master, except in this case the lord and master is a convicted fugitive criminal.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Artisi

[rametindallas]

Some things never change. Still packed up in her box next to Barbie heay.

The only unemployed person with urgent business and with her as an example people wonder why the Red Bull Ferrari driver that killed the policeman was "sick" in Singapore and unable to travel.

When the ex PM sets the example people tend to follow suit.

She was useless when she was PM and she is still useless now.

The Red Bull Heirs little missed encounter with the law, on a pretty clear cut criminal matter, took place sometime before NACC started proceedings against Yingluck, he can hardly be said to be following her example now can he?

The Red Bull Heirs case involves a simple criminal matter. He is, in one of your favourite phrases a "fugitive from justice".This case is brought by a man in a political position who is an avowed enemy of Yingluck, her government, the party she represents and the process by which it came to power. That rather makes it political. That also rather suggests that the verdict is a foregone conclusion. By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial. That I suggest is really why they, and I suspect you, are upset.

Do you even know what NACC even stands for? It stands for National Anti-Corruption Commission. What has the Red Bull heir case have to do with Nation Corruption? It sounds like you don't have a real argument so you are trying to obfuscate the issue.

According to the NACC, paying huge sums of money to the families of paid terrorists, who died because Thaksin had some of his ill-gotten money confiscated, is not within the purview of the Yingluck government and thusly may be construed as Corruption. That it really is Corruption, under the law, has not been determined in a court yet. It seems Ms Yingluck is in no hurry for justice or to clear her name. Is it because she has no justifiable defense?

That rather makes it political.

By prosecuting corrupt politicians it is easy for you to call it 'political'. That doesn't make their behavior less criminal/illegal.

That also rather suggests that the verdict is a foregone conclusion. By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial. That I suggest is really why they, and I suspect you, are upset.

I think you are using the term 'show trial' rather loosely. In a true show trial, the defendant would not be out on bail and would not be represented by lawyers of her choosing and she would be taken out and shot immediately after the show trial. Yingluck is simply being held accountable for actions that she doesn't deny. She will also be entitled to endless appeals and will be free on bail in the meantime. The courts will decide if she was within her right or had the authority to make those payments. If the payments were made only to Thaksin's Red Shirt victims terrorists and not the soldiers shot by the Men in Black (see You Tube) or innocent bystanders not involved in the 'protest', she is truly guilty of corruption even if she had authority to make restitution payments otherwise.

Why do you care, anyway? Why are you always defending the evil Shinawatras? Why do you hate Thai people so much you wish the Shinawatras on them?

.

[Robby nz]

dunno what the current hassle is? A Representative was in attendance, and was she expected to make any Plea (as in:Guilty or No) at this time?

But Yes, she could (Should?) have appeared In Camera/Internet Conference etc

The problem apparently is that she was ordered by the court to attend, not to sent someone to say she was busy.

Now if that had been you there would very likely have been a warrant out for your arrest.

As her supporters have said many times there shouldn't be double standards.

[AleG]

I accept that this is fact, if it is...No problem...Doesn't invalidate my post at all....My point is that agencies with the power to depose Govts. and Prime Ministers with no accountability to the electorate is undemocratic...Who are they accountable to is my concern.

I am not surprised that an elected Govt. will seek to reduce such powers, on behalf of the electorate.....Perhaps it was part of their election platform, and they are obliged to carry out such actions when elected on such a platform.

Those agencies are called courts,I don't recall any functional Democracy where elected representatives are above the law.

[AleG]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

Maybe another reason why reforms are needed so badly, this agency was obviously obstructed from doing their job

Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption.

Whether that helped or obstructed would be up to you to decide.

The NACC budget was cut by 60% from FY2013

IIRC it was cut to 60% of the previous budget, so a 40% cut, rather than 60% one.

Still, hardly the actions of a government invested in combating corruption.

[Bakseeda]

Vicha said if Yingluck fails to show up to hear the charges, the anti-graft body will take legal steps against her. Yingluck will have 15 days to defend herself after hearing the charges against her, said Vicha, adding that the focus would be on whether the payments were legally made and in accordance with the letter of the law.

Vicha - Mr. "We all know elections are evil" - you know that your case is just politically motivated against the defendants and vindictive with regard to the victims...

I can't wait to see how your karma sorts this out....

I don't know if your nom de plume is anything to do with that awful disease. But you are bang-on right about..., and I quote you ,

"We all know elections are evil" And especially in Thailand where every election is rigged... real elections would be very good for this nation But alas... will NEVER happen in my lifetime......

[Pimay1]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

Maybe another reason why reforms are needed so badly, this agency was obviously obstructed from doing their job

Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption.

Whether that helped or obstructed would be up to you to decide.

"Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption"

I don't recall if this is true, but it would certainly have reduced corruption against "Democratic, majority rule".

All these Agencies unhinged from the electorate and beholden to heaven knows who, are a blight on representative Democratic rule.

This being the work of one side of the Political divide is evident, when comparing it to mature Democracies...Can you imagine the furor in England, Canada, Australia etc., if unelected bodies can supersede electoral mandates.

It is true.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Budget-bill-constitutional-Court-30216299.html

The panel had decided unilaterally to cut the proposed budget of courts and independent agencies. Originally, the 2014 budget allotted to the courts of justice was Bt18.7 billion, including Bt2.2 billion for the Administrative Court and Bt1.5 billion to the NACC. The committee later altered the figures to Bt14.5 billion, Bt2 billion and Bt1.3 billion respectively.

[Nickymaster]

Payment for Thaksin's footsoldiers, nothing more nothing less. Instead of Dr.T using state money for his dead terrorists, if he used his own stash of hidden gadzillions, nobody would be batting an eyelid. Typical Thaksin, his own meanness causing him yet more trouble.

The payments were made to surviving family members, many of whom were not affiliated with the political disturbances. Payments were made to families of people who had no relationship with the UDD. None of the deceased was a convicted criminal.

Can you name one of the deceased people who's family received compensation who was a "foot soldier" or even a criminal?

Payments were made to families of people who had no relationship with the UDD.

Of course many had a relationship with the UDD. They were supporters/members/followers of this movement.

None of the deceased was a convicted criminal.

This is something very difficult for anyone to know and proof. Can YOU proof that none were convicted criminals? You can't, nobody can, so stop asking for proof all the time if you can't proof the opposite yourself. In fact, you haven never proven anything yourself in any of your posts since you are active on TV.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Nickymaster

[catterwell]

so why did the NACC not pursue theses cases until now

Maybe another reason why reforms are needed so badly, this agency was obviously obstructed from doing their job

Well PT did cut the NACC budget in their attempt to combat corruption.

Whether that helped or obstructed would be up to you to decide.

The NACC budget was cut by 60% from FY2013

IIRC it was cut to 60% of the previous budget, so a 40% cut, rather than 60% one.

Still, hardly the actions of a government invested in combating corruption.

Thanks, I stand corrected.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....so much for serving justice....

[JAG]

Some things never change. Still packed up in her box next to Barbie heay.

The only unemployed person with urgent business and with her as an example people wonder why the Red Bull Ferrari driver that killed the policeman was "sick" in Singapore and unable to travel.

When the ex PM sets the example people tend to follow suit.

She was useless when she was PM and she is still useless now.

The Red Bull Heirs little missed encounter with the law, on a pretty clear cut criminal matter, took place sometime before NACC started proceedings against Yingluck, he can hardly be said to be following her example now can he?

The Red Bull Heirs case involves a simple criminal matter. He is, in one of your favourite phrases a "fugitive from justice".This case is brought by a man in a political position who is an avowed enemy of Yingluck, her government, the party she represents and the process by which it came to power. That rather makes it political. That also rather suggests that the verdict is a foregone conclusion. By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial. That I suggest is really why they, and I suspect you, are upset.

"By not attending she has rather spoiled their show trial."

She didn't 'not attend', she asked for and was granted permission for delay. As for "show trial", well your words showing your opinion. Personally I wasn't aware the press was invited.

Indeed Rubl, I have an opinion. It may be considered partisan. As one yourself who often advances opinions, which may also at times be considered partisan, I trust you can permit me this?

[robblok]

Before you start equating the last "democratic government" here to western democracies, ask yourself in how many of those MPs are

allowed to accept regular and substantial payments to vote to the order of a fugitive criminal,

how many allow the same criminal access to cabinet meetings and to dictate policy, and how many will propose legislation with

blatant conflicts of interest without a single recusal.

Then you might consider what the check and balance regulatory bodies in those western democracies would do should such a situation develop. If your answer is wait for the next election, you are deluding yourself, or worse.

A clear example of what I referenced.....characterizing electoral Opposition rhetoric as gospel.

Waiting for the next election is not delusional....It is trust in a Democratic, electoral approach...as messy as that might be. Alternatives are worse.

Erdogan in Turkey found that out.....The wisdom of the electorate was good to see. Considering the Thai electorate any less is unfair to Thailand and its people.

Those red supporters are fun instead of attacking the facts they spew some nonsense.

Now give a clear awnser.. why do you equate western democracies with the Thai one. While if you had a convicted criminal paying out MP's to vote his way in a normal country the MP's would be prosecuted and the party disbanded.

You just can't compare the two.. Thailand was never a real democracy because the players did not stick to the rules of a democracy. So voting is not a solution. Its just a scam. The moment they uphold all democracy principles including not allowing fugatives to rule the country by proxy I will be on your side. Until that time its not a democracy even with voting.

[WhizBang]

This woman has no respect for the law, or for the people of Thailand.

Issue a bench warrant for her immediate arrest and haul her into court NOW.

Enough with this 'urgent business' BS.

[Baerboxer]

This attack on previous Govt. policy and personages by the anti-democrats, along with retroactive impeachment nonsense, seems to garner some support from those originating in countries with solid Democracy traditions.......continues to baffle me.

It totally ignores the Democratic principle of submitting all these so-called sins generated by the previous Parliamentary opposition to the electorate...Turf the bums if all of this has substance.

Taking Opposition mantra's as gospel, and suggesting they are truths that ought to be adopted by the country is ridiculous. They are not sufficient to demonize an elected Govt. to the point of deposing them by means other than an election. This is anti-democratic rhetoric to the extreme.

Can you imagine taking Canadian, Australian, UK, etc. Parliamentary opposition stuff as being the final arbiter of any elected Govt's legitimacy.

But for some, they think it is OK for Thailand...A double standard if I ever saw one. They espouse the Thai electoral minority Opposition stuff as legitimizing non-electoral measures.

It gets back to my point, that the color differentiation of the political divide in Thailand is not valid anymore....Now it is simply anti-Democrat vs. Democracy.......All political commentary can be slotted into one of those two catagories.

IMHO

New avatar, old words, and so familiar.

Can you imagine Canada, Australia, UK allowing an elected government to hand over control to a non elected convicted criminal fugitive who pays all his party's MP's a salary, selects, promotes and fires them?

Can you imagine any civilized country allowing government ministers to openly and repeatedly lie, then say it's ethical to lie? Or allow MP's the cheat the opposition out of voting whilst illegally voting for missing colleagues themselves?

Can you imagine any civilized country tolerating a government that openly defies courts, breaks the law, intimidates and threatens judges? Or allows their supporters to kill opponents and innocent children, which it openly applauds on stage?

Democracy vs anti-Democrat - and no doubt you'd like people to believe Thaksin, the convicted fugitive, and his bought and paid for puppets are somehow democratic?

They remind me of the old Wild West cowboy films Hollywood used to churn out. The ones where corrupt politicians take over a town, appoint a bent sheriff and then bully, extort and ride roughshod over all. Yippee, we got elected, we can do anything we want, we own the law!

[jackanapes]

for gods sake you people get real people are sick and tired of reading about the shinawatra family there are far more pressing things to do in Thailand what she did was for the good of the people and she should not get pilloried for it.