Seeking Honest Advice How To Deal With A Strange Thai English Teacher At My Son’s School..

[lostinisaan]

Hello and Sawasdee Khrap,

Our 16 year old son, now “studying electronics” at the local technical college in his second year was chosen by his English teacher to deliver a speech in a few days. Here’re some details to understand the whole story and the problem with a guy who doesn't want to lose face.

The director of this institution is aware that our son’s English is way better than his teacher’s English, which seems to create huge problems for him, but also for me. It was about 18 months ago when our son played the main character in a skit and they finally made it to the capital, competing against all the EP programme schools and his “no name school” surprisingly won the gold medal.

The students, our son and four girls put a lot of time, hard work, emphasis, traveling from competition to competition and a good part of their free time in, to reach their goal, which was fantastic for all involved. When I first saw the script, I started laughing. Nothing made any sense, but the kids had to say what they thought was “good English.” Then after a discussion with their teacher, I agreed to “help them” a little bit.

My part was to rewrite the whole script into something that was funny, made sense and I gave them the right tips when and how to use body language, raise their voice, start laughing, etc…

The kids saw that their educators received 400 K in cash, when they gave them their gold medals. You’d think that the teachers would at least show their appreciation to the students in form of some cash, a little holiday, or similar. But the creme de' la creme of the school, people who’d nothing to do with the whole skit then went on a fantastic luxury holiday, residing in a five star hotel, right at a nice beach, finest food and entertainment.

Of course did all the “educators” also get some pocket money to do some shopping and only the Lord Buddha knows what happened to the “rest” of the money that was left.

The kids could see how they’re using the money on their teachers’ facebook pages, but they received absolute nothing. Neither a little holiday for the guys who made this happen ,nor a little bit money for them, Nothing. But they always had to come to school after the “event” for some photo shooting purposes. My wife and I always drove him to these sessions and we met people who had really nothing to do with it, but took all the credit for it. Only one of them said a short “thank you”, before they drove to Bangkok.

All five made up their minds and started to hate this system, the fake smiles, the “gaeng maak” bullshit and all decided to never participate in any competitions again. All five were really close to a nervous breakdown and they finally stopped meeting each other, “their lesson” from their teachers was something they couldn’t understand. I saw them all crying like little kids and it also affected me, it was so strange how they’re being used and then thrown away like a freaking condom.

Now about 18 months later, the superiors at his college want him to do a speech. I spoke to him about it and he said he’d like to give it a try. His Thai English teacher gave him a sheet with two topics on it, he took one that was about somebody who loves to play online games and then invents his own game, blab la bla.

Okay, I sat down wrote a suitable one, considering a five minute time frame and went through the vocabulary with him. The next day the shock. His teacher “didn't know many words”, deleted them and made my speech to something laughable

Now this particular teacher changed it in a way that it sounds so ridiculous that I said stop. My beginning: “ Ladies and gentlemen, I’m xxxxxxxxxxxxx, but you can call me xxxxxx became to lady and gentlemn My name is ( nickname), my find say xxxxx ( real name) to me and that goes on and on and on.

Actually, I wanted to post the whole <deleted> here, but then decided not to.

I made the speech a little bit shorter, gave it to him and told him if his teacher isn't okay with this one, that they might consider to take another student.

I completely understand that it’s a sort of a power play now, the teacher doesn't want to lose face over a student who’s better in the subject he’s teaching.

I’d really appreciate some good ideas how to tell this guy that he’s so freaking wrong.

No sorry, teachers here are never wrong.

My decision stands and if he doesn't accept my speech, our son won’t deliver the speech sometime next week. HTF would you deal with such an idiot?

[JOC]

>>Okay, I sat down wrote a suitable one, considering a five minute time frame and went through the vocabulary with him. The next day the shock. His teacher “didn't know many words”, deleted them and made my speech to something laughable<< Quote

I you stopped doing your son's homework, you wouldn't be so offended, when it is rejected.............

[quidnunc]

You seem like a smart guy but I think you are way overi=nvested in this. I think your resentment is dictating your actions. If your son goes ahead with the speech as you wrote it, can this English teacher screw your son's academic career? I think you should let go of your resentment and just let your son go ahead with the ridiculous speech as the teacher wrote it. Unless, of course, your son's refusal to speak won't have any bad consequences for him. In any case, it should be up to your son to decide.

[Throatwobbler]

It's a competition for school students and yet you wrote the speech. Do you do his other homework for him?

[nev]

I have to agree, stop helping him to much, let him free and make his own way on this, you learn by your mistakes so let him make some if need be.

[EmptyHead]

Perhaps he should write his own speech. Not his teacher, nor you.

[lostinisaan]

It's a competition for school students and yet you wrote the speech. Do you do his other homework for him?

The problem seems to be solved and he's doing his own speech. Do you really think that any "impromptu speech" in Thailand was written by a student?

Nope, I don't do his homework. But I could give him some useful information about Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg, which is a part of the speech, discussed some historical events regarding software and he'll use his own words to express his opinion(s).

Anyway, thanks a lot.Please see the "corrected version of "our speech." lol.

[WhamBam]

As a teacher and as a parent are you not supposed to be guiding him along and not doing things for him?

We learn by being shown / taught, not by having things done for us.

I feel you need to step back and let the development(s) happen.

[lostinisaan]

As a teacher and as a parent are you not supposed to be guiding him along and not doing things for him?

We learn by being shown / taught, not by having things done for us.

I feel you need to step back and let the development(s) happen.

I totally agree with you. We did discuss all in his speech, talked about some important things he'd never heard of, Googled Bill Gates's and Mark Zuckerberg's past and then wrote the speech together, mainly using his ideas and words.

I'm only a tool to help him to get the right ideas.I believe that discussing a lot of things helps a lot to enhance his personal development.

Finally,he's the one who has to deliver the product. BTW, thanks a lot for your nice post. Deeply appreciated.

[SlyAnimal]

It's an impromptu speech or a prepared speech? If he has good English, then with an impromptu speech you should only need to teach him about the topic + topic specific vocab + how to structure an argument.

If it's a prepared speech, then it's just going to be personal preference on who writes it, depending on what will result in the best speech. Particularly as you'll check the speech either way to make changes, and your stepson can simply say "Teacher, I got my Farang step-dad to check the speech, and am going to use these changes". As although it's a loss of face for the student to correct his teacher, having his Farang step-father (Who's also an English teacher), modify it shouldn't cause any problems (So long as it's phrased diplomatically, e.g. It's "modified" not "corrected").

[MaeJoMTB]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

Edited June 11, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[puchooay]

You mention "they decided" and "he decided". Looks like you meant to write "I decided".

[casualbiker]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

What complete rubbish.. Technical college is technical college. It is to learn a technical trade. They have a bad name generally because of Thailand's enfercise on degrees. But you as a student are certainly not forced to go there.

[puchooay]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

What complete rubbish.. Technical college is technical college. It is to learn a technical trade. They have a bad name generally because of Thailand's enfercise on degrees. But you as a student are certainly not forced to go there.

Maybe the post was a bit strong but, generally, it is the weaker students that give up school at 15 and go to Tech College.

[SlyAnimal]

Generally a lot of the boys who want to be mechanics etc go there. Often they are interested in these professions, rather than say engineering or medicine, as they're not interested in science/English etc. So in many respects a lot of the "poorer" students go there, but that's because they don't need the "academic" skills that they'd learn in school for their chosen profession, normal school would have just been a waste of time for them (And many of these were likely encouraged to go to the technical colleges).

A lot of quite smart students goto the technical colleges as well, the ones who are studying to be accountants or other professions which do require more academically focused students. (And many of these students were also likely encouraged to goto a technical college, as they can then learn more profession specific knowledge, as most normal schools in Thailand don't offer much training in accounting/economics/nursing etc).

But that's all by the by we're talking about an English speech which he's giving.

[casualbiker]

What surprises me. Is that you wrote a speech that your son did not understand so how will his peer group understand it?

[Likener1]

The OP said

"My decision stands and if he doesn't accept my speech, our son won’t deliver the speech sometime next week. HTF would you deal with such an idiot?"

Maybe stepping back and letting things go, sure home school but not take the lead as it puts the kid in a difficult position at college.

Not only with one teacher but with them all.

Just saying........

[kerrysum]

You seem like a smart guy but I think you are way overi=nvested in this. I think your resentment is dictating your actions. If your son goes ahead with the speech as you wrote it, can this English teacher screw your son's academic career? I think you should let go of your resentment and just let your son go ahead with the ridiculous speech as the teacher wrote it. Unless, of course, your son's refusal to speak won't have any bad consequences for him. In any case, it should be up to your son to decide.

Makes perfect sense to me.... I applaud your comment.... Too politically correct in Thailand......

Let them be what they are for once, and let them have a day in the sun...... kilosierra

[iTravelNow]

@lostinisaan, I like much of your writing. Also I consider you to be quiet experienced when it comes to communication. Further you are very publicly engaged - that, I pretend, puts you under pressure. That explains to me why you help your son to write his "perfect" speeches. I further pretend this will one day backfire to you and your son.

I read you already took action and let the boy write his own speech that was based on a more informative discussion you had with him. I truly like this approach much better. My view in such a case is the following: [1] discuss the topic, show examples, links etc so the person can do his/her own researches, [2] let him/her write the speech/presentation and [3] (that is important) correct the paper not to have nice sentences but merely give suggestions that does not change the character of the content.

You know yourself that every person has his/her own character in writing. If you correct such a paper, then your character is inserted. If you only give suggestions and let them do the amendments in their own words then their character is on display.

Regarding the Thai (English) teacher there is unfortunately little a student can do. What came to my mind when the teacher corrected all in a wrong manner was, that he probably wanted to embarrass the kid publicly and as such embarrass you. For now I only have the (diplomatic) suggestion that your son is talking to his teacher in "private" telling him that he will ONLY use his fathers writing advises and giving one logic reason. If he does this in public the teacher loses face and sure will kick back one day.

Last but not least - me in your position would see that whole situation as a good ground for a solid education on character, power, kindness, envy - what ever. We can teach our kids that even this is not fare they do all this because they can learn something. On the other hand they should not even think of being the same dig as the teacher is. Just my 2c

[recom273]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

How rude .. I teach at a technical college. I have to admit lots of students are failures in their high schools and come to us not being able to write their own name without copying from their shirt.

Electronics students are the best students in college and most deserve more than to be lumped in with rest of the population, but it's a good place to start. The amount of information they absorb is huge, the lecturers are really solid and they are the only people I have seen teach in Thailand.

I love my electronics students, many of the kids made me proud by going onto the petrolium program which is sponsored by the big companies in the O&G field - after completion they stand a good chance of getting jobs in the industry.

Kids at a technic mature very quickly, they come in at M4, as lowers for 3 years and then an optional 2 years which gets then a headstart in university. They develop skills ( including smoking and wheelies I'm sorry to say ) from their peers which they don't at school because they are surrounded by younger students.

[klauskunkel]

have him deliver two speeches, first the officially sanctioned one and then...

[Emster23]

Son should write his own speech. If teacher wants to "correct" it, son should say "I'm supposed to write the speech, aren't I?". If someone else (you, teacher) required to write speech, student should respectfully decline being in competition.

Edited June 12, 2015 by Emster23

[recom273]

With regard to the speech - there are a lot of 'correct' comments here bro, but doesn't mean they are right.

I'm not going to comment but just to say your in a hard place and I wouldn't want to be in your position.

The story of the money is disgusting, but it's to be expected, what your son receives is a leg-up the ladder in the future.

I train the college 'swat' I don't like him or his personality but every Thai teacher loves him and can't do enough to push him all the way.

I don't even argue with the speech content anymore I just work on pronounciation and presentation whilst cringing and slowly changing the odd sentence.

Maybe just take a back seat, I have never had any support or input from a Thai parent.

I can see you don't want the boy to fail either. Tricky.

[mmh8]

I am not sure if it is you who posted the info or not, opr where the post is now, however there was a discussion about taking children out of school and sending them to do individual bacclaureate or alevels at the british counciul instead of paying for internaitonal school. Alternativly the amercian equivalent which is something like gpa( imo american system looks pretty dumbed down the sat tests for engineers etc is taken from a tabloid papers difficult problems quiz but anyway)

either way, it works cheaper in the long run and better than schooling.

It sounds as if you have poor teachers that will hold your child back, just imagine all that loss of face over having a more intelligent pupil followed by jealousy etc. I recommend you take your child out and home school,

[1FinickyOne]

With a ten year old in school - I totally understand - she is being taught English by people who really cannot speak English. Sometimes the text books are wrong. It is frustrating but I have so far resisted the temptation to get involved… I know enough to not show up the teachers but not sure if I should correct them quietly or not. I would have to go out of my way to do it - - as I rarely see the teacher anyway though I am at the school daily for pick-up. I am not even sure if i should correct my niece when she mispronounces as it will take her out of sync w/the teacher and class and may put her in a battle or judged incorrect.

If you need to be involved, best might be to involve the teacher too -- suck it up and say, you have a lot of good ideas but why don't we change this a little - as if you are doing it together… surely, he will agree with you...

It is not customary for students to profit from competitions, though it is in bad form to be so blatant about using the money solely for the teachers entertainment.

good luck - I know it is frustrating…

[rijb]

And what will the boy learn from all this? Face is more important than communication.

[DavisH]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

What complete rubbish.. Technical college is technical college. It is to learn a technical trade. They have a bad name generally because of Thailand's enfercise on degrees. But you as a student are certainly not forced to go there.

Maybe the post was a bit strong but, generally, it is the weaker students that give up school at 15 and go to Tech College.

A lot of my well-off students should be in Tech college based on what they know, but because they can pay their way into some third rate uni and get a 'degree'. There's plenty of smart kids at tech college; they just weren't given the chance earlier in life, such as not having the money to pay for extra classes.

[Phaeton]

This teacher is useless. I don't think you have a choice but to involve yourself in the process of teaching your stepson and helping him.

I didn't really need to see an example of the teacher's writing, as I believed the words in your original post, but once I did see them, I see the teacher is a lost cause. I think the advice above, for your son to say to his teacher, "Hey, I thought I was supposed to write this" Is great advice if the teacher tries to impose himself in this process. But I would be very tempted to remove your son from the competition.

If you want to continue, maybe your son, should use the teachers pathetic writing as sort of outline, but then change the words again. So as an example, he seems to want your child to introduce his nickname. You guys could incorporate that early in the speech, incorporating some of what the teacher suggested so that the teacher thinks his ideas are being used.

Bigger picture. Overseas, many students burden themselves with huge debt to go to school and college. And then have no hope of a good job. And some smart people in America are pushing kids to reject that route and get technical training. Likewise, I have met at least three girls here, who are teaching because they had no other choice for work after leaving college. People here, have a belief, like they do in the states, that college is the route to success. I think the course your child is taking could work out well for him. Good luck.

[MRH1959]

You are doing the right thing by discussing the topic and 'offering' editing advice to the speech that 'your son' has written.

Be sure to state wether the speech is in American English or British English [especially on the written speech presented to the teacher].

I would suggest forwarding a copy of the written proposed speech to the English teacher and the School Headmaster with an inserted 'copywrite' mark on the page. You can upload this from the internet.

It is hard to offer advice on how to 'approach the problem of less educated English Teachers' without belittleing them. There are good teachers out there that are trying to improve their students standings and education, and then there are those that believe they are above all else.

Take the line of New Zealand's teaching style that is, 'to make the students think for themselves instead of making them follow exactly what (you/teacher) tell them is the only way to do things'.

If you son was asked to do a speech on a topic of choice, then it is 'his' speech and not the teacher's. If the teacher wants to write a speech, then let 'him' speak to the audience.

Good luck to your son, and I hope that the group of students you spoke about are better appreciated in the future.

[NanLaew]

If he's at tech college, that means he failed the high school for whatever reason.

(Naughty children, stupid children and problem children are all told to leave government high school at age 15+, after M3)

Best not to get involved, you're clearly not helping his education.

What complete rubbish.. Technical college is technical college. It is to learn a technical trade. They have a bad name generally because of Thailand's enfercise on degrees. But you as a student are certainly not forced to go there.

Maybe the post was a bit strong but, generally, it is the weaker students that give up school at 15 and go to Tech College.

And thus the myth perpetuates.

Generally, it's the dumbing down of higher learning per-qualifications that permits everyone that previously didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting accepted for university, to embark on a higher level of learning that they are totally unprepared for and thus unable to maintain. Hence the subsequent dumbing down of the degree, wherever it is offered.

Despite what the equal rights advocates tell us, we can't all be rocket scientists. Someone has to build the bloody things.