Tamir Rice: US police face charges over boy's death

[webfact]

Judge rules there's evidence to charge US officers
MARK GILLISPIE, Associated Press

CLEVELAND (AP) — Enough evidence exists to charge two police officers in the fatal shooting of a 12-year-old boy who was holding a pellet gun outside a recreation center, a judge ruled on Thursday.

Footage from a surveillance camera shows Tamir Rice being shot by new officer Timothy Loehmann within two seconds of a police cruiser, driven by his partner Frank Garmback, skidding to a stop near the boy. The officers had responded to an emergency call about a man pointing and waving a gun at a playground next to the recreation center. Footage from the surveillance camera shows Tamir reaching for the gun, which was a realistic-looking toy, from his waistband when Loehmann shot him once in the abdomen.

The shooting of Tamir, who was black, by a white officer raised questions about how police treat blacks and spurred protests around the city.

The judge's ruling is symbolic because he cannot compel prosecutors to charge the officers in the death of Rice last November. But Judge Ronald Adrine ruled there's probable cause to charge rookie officer Loehmann with murder, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide or dereliction of duty. And he ruled there's evidence to charge Garmback, with reckless homicide or dereliction of duty.

"This court reaches its conclusions consistent with the facts in evidence and the standard of proof that applies at this time," the judge wrote.

The judge made his ruling after a group of activists submitted affidavits asking the court to charge the officers.

Police officials have said Loehmann ordered Tamir three times to put his hands up.

The city released the surveillance video showing the shooting of Tamir, who was carrying an airsoft gun that shoots non-lethal plastic pellets.

Much of the footage showed what appeared to be a bored kid alone in a park on an unseasonably warm November afternoon. Tamir was seen pacing, occasionally extending his right arm with what appeared to be a gun in his hand, talking on a cellphone and sitting at a picnic table with his head resting on his arms.

But the gun wasn't real — it can be bought at sporting goods stores for less than $20. Tamir's was lacking the bright orange tip that is usually put on such weapons to indicate they're not real guns.

Tamir's family said it had seen the video of his shooting.

"It is our belief that this situation could have been avoided and that Tamir should still be here with us," the family said shortly after the shooting in a statement released by its attorneys. "The video shows one thing distinctly: the police officers reacted quickly."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-06-12

[Usernames]

A lot of information about this judge missing from this article. Google him up.

[quandow]

This shooting took place last year. Black communities across America are starting to put pressure on similar shootings so that just solutions are reached. If they hadn't, this shooting would most likely have been ignored until it died a dusty death.

Edited June 12, 2015 by quandow

[Pigdog474]

What do you expect, the prosecutors and police work together. they look out only for themselves. When a crime like this occurs, Prosecutors should be brought in from a different area of the state where they aren't personally connected to these killer cops. If the Governor had any balls, he would see that it's done. Don't forget there is the police union that is corrupt and will protect their own and making life miserable for anyone saying anything against fellow officers. No wonder police are now hated, they're no longer there to protect the public.

[Pigdog474]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

[mikebike]

A lot of information about this judge missing from this article. Google him up.

Does it surprise you that they would pick a sympathetic judge? Police do this all the time when obtaining a warrant... Edited June 13, 2015 by mikebike

[MaxYakov]

Easy to Monday-morning quarterback, but I don't see why they pulled up so close to the kid with their cruiser. This seems to me to have severely limited their response options and decision time and risked their being the victims if the gun had been real. It wasn't as if there were scores of people around and the kid was an immediate, potential threat to the public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GaaMYhrw0

Edited June 13, 2015 by MaxYakov

[Publicus]

Too many police in the US are doing irreversible damage and harm to themselves and to policing in the US. These guys don't learn so they're going to have to be hammered in this way by judges.

The Republican party governor John Kasich is running for prez so he's doing a cop out on this one.

Going to the state judiciary in each individual state appears the only way to provide some checks and balances on the local police and their excesses. We'll see how this develops to include whether the Cleveland police mimic the sad and sorry Baltimore police by engaging in an illegal work slowdown. Again, the courts would need to resolve this.

[chuckd]

The municipal judge in this instance has no jurisdiction.

He is providing an opinion only.

[CMNightRider]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

I'm not certain where the "Rambo" comment comes from but it appears the kid should of followed police instructions, and dropped the gun and put his hands up.

There is a lot to be said for obeying the law. If one were to have any questions or concerns, it seems it would be better to share those once you have complied with a lawful order.

Life can be tough but it is much tougher when you are stupid.

[impulse]

The municipal judge in this instance has no jurisdiction.

He is providing an opinion only.

Perhaps not, but publicizing his opinion may put this case higher on the priorities of the state and federal prosecutors who can charge them with crimes and take them into court, even if prosecutors at the city or county level decline to do so.

[impulse]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

I'm not certain where the "Rambo" comment comes from but it appears the kid should of followed police instructions, and dropped the gun and put his hands up.

There is a lot to be said for obeying the law. If one were to have any questions or concerns, it seems it would be better to share those once you have complied with a lawful order.

Life can be tough but it is much tougher when you are stupid.

You must have amazing reflexes if you can hear, understand, react, and comply with an order in 2 seconds or less. In fact, it probably took the cop longer than 2 seconds to bark out the order, leaving the kid zero time to understand, react and comply.

We pay (and train) these guys to be better than that.

Was the kid stupid? Sure. Did he deserve to be shot to death? Doubtful.

Edited June 14, 2015 by impulse

[Publicus]

The municipal judge in this instance has no jurisdiction.

He is providing an opinion only.

That is in the OP and news accounts.

No one has posted to the contrary.

We'll see how the DA handles it, also Gov John Kasich the likable Republican who is among the clowns running for prez.

[Publicus]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

I'm not certain where the "Rambo" comment comes from but it appears the kid should of followed police instructions, and dropped the gun and put his hands up.

There is a lot to be said for obeying the law. If one were to have any questions or concerns, it seems it would be better to share those once you have complied with a lawful order.

Life can be tough but it is much tougher when you are stupid.

The kid was 12 years old.

This militant right wing absolute demand people comply with the police practically before the police arrive with guns blazing is extreme in the extreme.

There's just no consideration of the kid here by the trigger happy cops or by their fellow right wing extremists.

The kid was a kid playing with a toy gun. I'd still like to know more about the guy who was watching from -- was it a nearby bench -- and who called the cops to report a kid with a gun, and that it may be a toy. That was one hellova move on his part. Maybe the kid interrupted the guy's tea party.

[F430murci]

A lot of information about this judge missing from this article. Google him up.

Does it surprise you that they would pick a sympathetic judge? Police do this all the time when obtaining a warrant...

Really, and you speak from what experience?

[CMNightRider]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

I'm not certain where the "Rambo" comment comes from but it appears the kid should of followed police instructions, and dropped the gun and put his hands up.

There is a lot to be said for obeying the law. If one were to have any questions or concerns, it seems it would be better to share those once you have complied with a lawful order.

Life can be tough but it is much tougher when you are stupid.

The kid was 12 years old.

This militant right wing absolute demand people comply with the police practically before the police arrive with guns blazing is extreme in the extreme.

There's just no consideration of the kid here by the trigger happy cops or by their fellow right wing extremists.

The kid was a kid playing with a toy gun. I'd still like to know more about the guy who was watching from -- was it a nearby bench -- and who called the cops to report a kid with a gun, and that it may be a toy. That was one hellova move on his part. Maybe the kid interrupted the guy's tea party.

"The kid was 12 years old?" When I was 12 years old, I already knew it would be in my best interest to obey a police officers instructions. This is not rocket science we are talking about. Well, maybe for you it is.

The kid could have been 8 years old. If the police thought he was brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner, and was refusing to comply with a police officers instruction to put the gun down and put his hands up, one would think this isn't going to go well.

Toy guns today don't look like the toy guns that kids played with in the forties, fifties, and sixties. From a short distance, they look like a real weapon. There is nothing "right wing" about this incident.

[F430murci]

Too many police in the US are doing irreversible damage and harm to themselves and to policing in the US. These guys don't learn so they're going to have to be hammered in this way by judges.

The Republican party governor John Kasich is running for prez so he's doing a cop out on this one.

Going to the state judiciary in each individual state appears the only way to provide some checks and balances on the local police and their excesses. We'll see how this develops to include whether the Cleveland police mimic the sad and sorry Baltimore police by engaging in an illegal work slowdown. Again, the courts would need to resolve this.

Police have done what they had to do to keep control of the inner cities and a lot of bad people out there. They are now backing off as they are in no-win situations. This result in these inner city areas imploding and the bad guys taking each other and other citizens in those areas out. These inner city thugs are just like ISIS. Give them a little room to roam and they will wreak havoc. I suppose after they wreak havoc as we are now seeing in Baltimore the victims and good people in these inner city areas will start getting very vocal and begging for more intervention.

What makes me sick is all of the idiots that politicize stuff like this. We are talking about the safety and welfare of a lot of people being compromised, but some see this as a game to make money and garner popularity without really analyzing how this will hurt a lot of good, innocent people in the end.

Cool, let them implode and let the thugs run wild in the inner cities for a while. Short sighted people like Publicus will then see how well their little personal agendas and belief systems works on a much larger scale. Easy to whine behind a key board when you don't actually have some skin in the game.

[CMNightRider]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

I'm not certain where the "Rambo" comment comes from but it appears the kid should of followed police instructions, and dropped the gun and put his hands up.

There is a lot to be said for obeying the law. If one were to have any questions or concerns, it seems it would be better to share those once you have complied with a lawful order.

Life can be tough but it is much tougher when you are stupid.

You must have amazing reflexes if you can hear, understand, react, and comply with an order in 2 seconds or less. In fact, it probably took the cop longer than 2 seconds to bark out the order, leaving the kid zero time to understand, react and comply.

We pay (and train) these guys to be better than that.

Was the kid stupid? Sure. Did he deserve to be shot to death? Doubtful.

Where do you get the 2 seconds or less to comply with an order? Try for a moment to place yourself in this kids place when this incident took place. You are holding what appears to be a real firearm, and walking around pointing it at people. The police respond to your location with guns drawn, and order you to put the gun down and put your hands up.

Please forget about the 2 seconds or less, since that is what you have made up.

What do you think you would have done? (A) Obeyed the police officers instructions. B Refuse to obey the police officers instructions and continue holding what appears to be a firearm.

If you answered "(A)" that is the correct answer. if you answered "(B)" then you shouldn't be allowed to leave your home without adult supervision, and you shouldn't be posting silly comments on Thai Visa anymore.

Edited June 14, 2015 by CMNightRider

[Publicus]

Too many police in the US are doing irreversible damage and harm to themselves and to policing in the US. These guys don't learn so they're going to have to be hammered in this way by judges.

The Republican party governor John Kasich is running for prez so he's doing a cop out on this one.

Going to the state judiciary in each individual state appears the only way to provide some checks and balances on the local police and their excesses. We'll see how this develops to include whether the Cleveland police mimic the sad and sorry Baltimore police by engaging in an illegal work slowdown. Again, the courts would need to resolve this.

Police have done what they had to do to keep control of the inner cities and a lot of bad people out there. They are now backing off as they are in no-win situations. This result in these inner city areas imploding and the bad guys taking each other and other citizens in those areas out. These inner city thugs are just like ISIS. Give them a little room to roam and they will wreak havoc. I suppose after they wreak havoc as we are now seeing in Baltimore the victims and good people in these inner city areas will start getting very vocal and begging for more intervention.

What makes me sick is all of the idiots that politicize stuff like this. We are talking about the safety and welfare of a lot of people being compromised, but some see this as a game to make money and garner popularity without really analyzing how this will hurt a lot of good, innocent people in the end.

Cool, let them implode and let the thugs run wild in the inner cities for a while. Short sighted people like Publicus will then see how well their little personal agendas and belief systems works on a much larger scale. Easy to whine behind a key board when you don't actually have some skin in the game.

These inner city thugs are just like ISIS.

ISIS are foreign mass murderers in the Middle East that are fanatic lunatics hell bent on killing Americans and anyone else who disagrees with them and that they don't like. ISIS is in short not a reference point in this thread. Come back down from out in lunar orbit plse thx.

This was a 12 year old kid born in the USA in human form who was in fact human.

So I commend the judge for his judgement in the case. It encourages me concerning many lawyers.

It would be of a great importance if there could be some psychological testing of the cops involved because we know from experience there are a certain number of racial police in the US who are psychiatric cases and who are not competent or qualified to wear a badge and to have a gun they can feel free to do anything they like to do with while legally claiming fear of their own life.

A 12 year old boy. I understand where the judge was coming from in his advisory opinion, so there's no shame on him in this.

[F430murci]

Too many police in the US are doing irreversible damage and harm to themselves and to policing in the US. These guys don't learn so they're going to have to be hammered in this way by judges.

The Republican party governor John Kasich is running for prez so he's doing a cop out on this one.

Going to the state judiciary in each individual state appears the only way to provide some checks and balances on the local police and their excesses. We'll see how this develops to include whether the Cleveland police mimic the sad and sorry Baltimore police by engaging in an illegal work slowdown. Again, the courts would need to resolve this.

Police have done what they had to do to keep control of the inner cities and a lot of bad people out there. They are now backing off as they are in no-win situations. This result in these inner city areas imploding and the bad guys taking each other and other citizens in those areas out. These inner city thugs are just like ISIS. Give them a little room to roam and they will wreak havoc. I suppose after they wreak havoc as we are now seeing in Baltimore the victims and good people in these inner city areas will start getting very vocal and begging for more intervention.

What makes me sick is all of the idiots that politicize stuff like this. We are talking about the safety and welfare of a lot of people being compromised, but some see this as a game to make money and garner popularity without really analyzing how this will hurt a lot of good, innocent people in the end.

Cool, let them implode and let the thugs run wild in the inner cities for a while. Short sighted people like Publicus will then see how well their little personal agendas and belief systems works on a much larger scale. Easy to whine behind a key board when you don't actually have some skin in the game.

These inner city thugs are just like ISIS.

ISIS are foreign mass murderers in the Middle East that are fanatic lunatics hell bent on killing Americans and anyone else who disagrees with them and that they don't like. ISIS is in short not a reference point in this thread. Come back down from out in lunar orbit plse thx.

This was a 12 year old kid born in the USA in human form who was in fact human.

So I commend the judge for his judgement in the case. It encourages me concerning many lawyers.

It would be of a great importance if there could be some psychological testing of the cops involved because we know from experience there are a certain number of racial police in the US who are psychiatric cases and who are not competent or qualified to wear a badge and to have a gun they can feel free to do anything they like to do with while legally claiming fear of their own life.

A 12 year old boy. I understand where the judge was coming from in his advisory opinion, so there's no shame on him in this.

ISIS is what happens when you have bad people that will not be held accountable for their actions and they are permitted to do what they do with impunity. Same with Mexican cartels. Would be exactly the same with a lot if the inner city gang bangers.

The 12 year old boy incident is truly sad, but WTH? Why does a 12 year old think its cool to brandish a pistol and scare others? The even sadder part is that 12 year olds in these inner cities will shot you without thinking twice about it.

[Publicus]

Too many police in the US are doing irreversible damage and harm to themselves and to policing in the US. These guys don't learn so they're going to have to be hammered in this way by judges.

The Republican party governor John Kasich is running for prez so he's doing a cop out on this one.

Going to the state judiciary in each individual state appears the only way to provide some checks and balances on the local police and their excesses. We'll see how this develops to include whether the Cleveland police mimic the sad and sorry Baltimore police by engaging in an illegal work slowdown. Again, the courts would need to resolve this.

Police have done what they had to do to keep control of the inner cities and a lot of bad people out there. They are now backing off as they are in no-win situations. This result in these inner city areas imploding and the bad guys taking each other and other citizens in those areas out. These inner city thugs are just like ISIS. Give them a little room to roam and they will wreak havoc. I suppose after they wreak havoc as we are now seeing in Baltimore the victims and good people in these inner city areas will start getting very vocal and begging for more intervention.

What makes me sick is all of the idiots that politicize stuff like this. We are talking about the safety and welfare of a lot of people being compromised, but some see this as a game to make money and garner popularity without really analyzing how this will hurt a lot of good, innocent people in the end.

Cool, let them implode and let the thugs run wild in the inner cities for a while. Short sighted people like Publicus will then see how well their little personal agendas and belief systems works on a much larger scale. Easy to whine behind a key board when you don't actually have some skin in the game.

These inner city thugs are just like ISIS.

ISIS are foreign mass murderers in the Middle East that are fanatic lunatics hell bent on killing Americans and anyone else who disagrees with them and that they don't like. ISIS is in short not a reference point in this thread. Come back down from out in lunar orbit plse thx.

This was a 12 year old kid born in the USA in human form who was in fact human.

So I commend the judge for his judgement in the case. It encourages me concerning many lawyers.

It would be of a great importance if there could be some psychological testing of the cops involved because we know from experience there are a certain number of racial police in the US who are psychiatric cases and who are not competent or qualified to wear a badge and to have a gun they can feel free to do anything they like to do with while legally claiming fear of their own life.

A 12 year old boy. I understand where the judge was coming from in his advisory opinion, so there's no shame on him in this.

ISIS is what happens when you have bad people that will not be held accountable for their actions and they are permitted to do what they do with impunity. Same with Mexican cartels. Would be exactly the same with a lot if the inner city gang bangers.

The 12 year old boy incident is truly sad, but WTH? Why does a 12 year old think its cool to brandish a pistol and scare others? The even sadder part is that 12 year olds in these inner cities will shot you without thinking twice about it.

Why does a 12 year old think its cool to brandish a pistol and scare others

OTT again....

as usual....

Even wormed Mexican cartels in to the post besides.

America needs to get some quantifiable data concerning unstable police officers in the cities, counties, states throughout the country, the minority of racial police who are in need of professional psychiatric counselling services, to include psychological counseling as appropriate.

Who will be the next self-detonating unstable and over stressed police officer, and where will that be? No one knows or can say, so let's get professional assessments and recommendations to police officers in need.

The public safety requires it.

[sdanielmcev]

Because this judge has no standing in this case, this story is muck-raking, and could throw any charges into the shooting out the window. This is no no more than media grandstanding.

[Publicus]

Killer police officer Timothy Loehmann had been released by a PD outside of Cleveland for being a pussy around guns and, moreover, having psychological instability and insecurities. How did this guy become a police officer anywhere in the United States? He'd already been psychologically profiled by another PD as unstable before the Cleveland PD considered his application.

Here's from the judge, Ronald Adrine who has been a long-time judge on the bench...

"After viewing it several times, this court is still thunderstruck by how quickly this event turned deadly," he wrote.

The judge noted that neither officer moved to provide Tamir with medical aid after the fatal shots were fired, and that they kept the boy's sister from approaching him.

He also criticized Loehmann's near immediate decision to fire, and questioned police accounts that Tamir had ignored the officer's orders to drop the toy gun he was holding.

"There appears to be little if any time reflected on the video for (Tamir) to react or respond to any verbal or audible commands. ... Literally, the entire encounter is over in an instant," he wrote.

http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/tns-judge-officer-tamir-rice.html

Within two seconds and anyone who wants to challenge the fact is welcome to challenge it.

And whatever happened to police stopping some reasonable space and distance away from a person who'd been reported to have a gun, and that the gun may be a toy gun? Where is the caution in this. Where are the interests of public safety and to protect and serve. Why did the police speed drive right up alongside the kid and within two seconds Loehmann jumped out of the police car and started firing his weapon?

As one commenter points out:

“Are we expected to pretend as if it is normal protocol to drive right up to someone, who you think has a deadly weapon, and shoot them? You know, versus stopping a ways back and demanding they drop the weapon and (so that they can actually showcase that top notch training they received) INVESTIGATE the situation, first? No one was in immediate danger when they arrived.

Are we also expected to act as if we do not live in America and that our gun culture is not ingrained into our society and that millions of kids, from all socioeconomic backgrounds, play with toy guys, BB guns and even real guns, on a regular basis?”

http://filmingcops.com/its-probably-fake-911-caller-warns-that-12-yr-old-childs-toy-gun-is-fake-cops-shoot-and-kill-child-anyway/

There are in fact psychologically and psychiatrically unqualified and unstable police on the job in a number of police departments throughout the United States. The killer cop in this case is one, and so is his partner who drove the police car.

The fact needs to be treated concerning these two police and in the many police departments throughout the US. Police departments need to conduct a special round of testing of police officers identified by their superiors and community leaders to possibly be in need of psychological and psychiatric testing, evaluation, treatment as may be necessary or required, to include discharge on reasonable grounds.

The two cops handcuffed Tamil Rice's sister and threw her in the back of their police car while her brother lay eight minutes without any first aid or treatment except for a nearby FBI agent not trained as a first aid officer or a medic. Rice died the next day.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The cop told the kid to put his hands up 3 times and all this happened within 2 seconds, I think the cop is full of it. Another case of a lying police officer being backed by other officers, no way can you tell the kid to put his hands up 3 times in 2 seconds. Some cops think their Rambo

Yes indeed, and the standards and qualifications to be a gunman police officer in the United States need to be radically upgraded across the board and across the country.

Psychological and psychiatric standards especially. And on a continuing basis cause too many police do burn out pretty rapidly. Certain police in the United States are conducting a race war so a fundamentally different approach needs to be conceived and pursued by the state. There needs to be a new kind of sheriff in town.

No handouts but no shooting galleries either.

Unstable gunslingers need not apply.

[stevenl]

If an internal investigation would have cleared him there would have been many doubt about that.

Best way to sort this out is via charges and the court system. Not the most pleasant way for anybody involved, but IMO the only way.

[mikebike]

Really, and you speak from what experience?

Yep.

[arjunadawn]

What do you expect, the prosecutors and police work together. they look out only for themselves. When a crime like this occurs, Prosecutors should be brought in from a different area of the state where they aren't personally connected to these killer cops. If the Governor had any balls, he would see that it's done. Don't forget there is the police union that is corrupt and will protect their own and making life miserable for anyone saying anything against fellow officers. No wonder police are now hated, they're no longer there to protect the public.

Wow, what an inventive and smart idea. I agree.

[arjunadawn]

Easy to Monday-morning quarterback, but I don't see why they pulled up so close to the kid with their cruiser. This seems to me to have severely limited their response options and decision time and risked their being the victims if the gun had been real. It wasn't as if there were scores of people around and the kid was an immediate, potential threat to the public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1GaaMYhrw0

Bingo! This was my observation exactly!

I was watching thinking to myself if that kid has the gun out when the police arrive he will be in grave danger. While watching I considered the near universal prohibition of guns and anything depicting guns sweeping America. Toy or not, a police officer just does not have time to deliberate this. As I watched the patrol car come to a stop my first thought was this is totally wrong?

Even with a gun in hand the first thing officers should be doing is demanding a person drop the gun. Normally, threat is articulated by proximity, intention, and capability. The youth may have had intent but this is not know. He appears to have capability, but he does not have proximity. (Proximity for a knife differs for a gun). When the police rolled up directly upon the youth they themselves provided the proximity. The boy did not provide this. Thus it is fair to assume intent is diminished. By all accounts he still had capability because the officers could not have known the gun was a toy. Thus, it does not appear to me that this boy needed to be disarmed by a weapon. The officers should have stopped a reasonable distance away, greater than 20 meters or more, and demanded he disarm. It is difficult to accurately engage a target at 20 meters unless trained.

I would be surprised if the stop in this manner followed protocol. I saw no indication the car was sliding. Perhaps I missed this.

Note: After watching again I highly doubt one or both police officers were not in the car shouting "gun" or something similar. That weapon was drawn as the door was opening. The weapon cleared the door frame while one foot was on the ground. I am confident. This was unnecessary use of force, but not murder.

Edited June 15, 2015 by arjunadawn

[F430murci]

Really, and you speak from what experience?

Yep.

Lol, Yep does not really answer that question. Think you missed the what. I, however, do get annoyed when people try to act all knowledgeable about courts and judges when they really have absolutely no clue about either. Might also be nice if people like you would not selectively remove posts that are needed to put questions in context.

[CMNightRider]

This shooting took place last year. Black communities across America are starting to put pressure on similar shootings so that just solutions are reached. If they hadn't, this shooting would most likely have been ignored until it died a dusty death.

Blacks should look in the mirror instead of pointing their fingers at the police. One would think their concern should be about killing each other. Black on black killings is epidemic, yet the liberal media fails to address that issue. The police are not the enemy, as a few liberal posters on this site suggest. For some reason, the left seem to delight in fanning the flames of racial discontent.