Best / Easiest Second Citizenship For Americans

[crawford]

What's the best (and/or easiest) country for an American to become a citizen of?

I think I want another passport for travel, and maybe want to quit the country altogether. I support the ideals this country stands for - 100%, and I even support the war on Islamist terror, also 100% - but...

I just feel like something is wrong. I feel edgy and fearful all the time, and I'm sick of feeling this way. It didn't just start when George Bush became president, or even post 9/11 - no, I'm thinking it goes back way before that. Maybe it started in the early 90's, when 'gansta crap' pushed just about all cool, happy, fun music off the radio?

For years now it seems like there are more and more security guards everywhere. And cameras. And yet I feel less and less safe. And I'm sure there will be more 9/11s - I'm only surprised they haven't happened yet. But they will - I just know it. Proabably worse than 9/11.

And with all these problems - with drug gangs running most of our cities - gang graffiti everywhere to prove it - customs officials have to harrass perfectly law-abiding citizens just because they're coming back from Thailand? They ask you about "girls"? "He has PORN on his computer" means you're a criminal? Man oh man....

Something is wrong. Or is it me? Am I crazy? Someone help me out here, please.

[GuestHouse]

As an American, unless you are born with a dual citizenship you cannot elect to become a citizen of another country without loosing your US Citizenship.

[GU22]

You cannot simply choose to change your nationality or take out dual citizenship with another country. Most countries require a reason, usually residential. So, if you are serious you will first have to decide where you want to live and then move to that country; provided you qualify for a residential visa.

For example, the UK allows dual nationality and British citizenship is quite easy to obtain, provided you are a UK resident. The residential requirement is that you must have been living in the UK for at least 5 years, unless you are the spouse of a British citizen in which case it is 3 years.

There is also a citizenship test to pass, but a little bit of study will get you through that.

The difficulty for an American is that you also have to demonstrate a basic ability in the English language!

[otherstuff1957]

Nonsense! The US government doesn't have any problem with dual citizenship. In fact, it says somewhere on one of the State Depts. websites that dual citizenship is OK.

Many US citizens have dual citizenship because they were born elsewhere and didn't give up their previous citizenship, but others acquired dual citizenship as adults. One of my cousins has dual US/Canadian citizenship (our mothers were born in Canada).

Some US citizens get dual citizenship through ancestry - countries like Germany, Italy and Ireland are fairly easy to get citizenship with if you can prove that a parent or grandparent came from there. Many US citizens have gone that route in order to work or do business in the EU more easily.

Some US citizens have acquired a second citizenship through residence and meeting other requirements. There are US/Thai citizens who post here on TV who can assure you that they did not have to surrender their US citizenship when they got their Thai passports!

This is a relatively recent change. Twenty years or so ago I think that your statement would have been correct.

[crocodilexp]

Since you're posting on this board, I assume you do have an interest in SE Asia.

I'm looking into Singaporean citizenship, and it doesn't seem terribly difficult to obtain. First, you ought to obtain Permanent Residence, which takes ~3 months (you can apply as soon as you get a work visa, which is really easy with a job offer and a college degree). You can get citizenship after 2-6 years of permanent residence (not sure why the range), and can actually interview after only 1 year. All in all, 2.5 years or so should be enough, and Singapore is pleasant enough place to live and work, and close to Thailand to boot.

This is much better than 4-6 years on H1B for the green card + 6-7 years for the citizenship in the U.S. (officially 5, but by the time they process the app...)

An extra perk of SG citizenship is that you're eligible for an ASEAN card that exempts you from silly visa restrictions that Thailand is trying to impose these days.

The only unknown with the SG citizenship is the 1yr National Service (Army) requirement -- it can be waived for a PR, not sure about a citizen. If you're born a U.S. citizen, I think you can't lose your citizenship by serving in SG army, but if you're Naturalized, I think you might (the oath mentions something about not serving foreign gov'ts).

Update: SG may require you to renounce current citizenship. Odd, very few countries do so.

Edited September 14, 2006 by crocodilexp

[Old Croc]

Is this Thai related?

(had to do it after everyone picked on my last thread here! )

[jdinasia]

Thailand is hard to get citizenship in

feel better Croc?

[fxm88]

What's the best (and/or easiest) country for an American to become a citizen of?

I think I want another passport for travel, and maybe want to quit the country altogether...

I'm not sure I understand. Have you found travelling with a US passport to be a lot of trouble? In what ways?

You may find some useful information and links here.

[OldAsiaHand]

Nonsense! .... There are US/Thai citizens who post here on TV who can assure you that they did not have to surrender their US citizenship when they got their Thai passports!....This is a relatively recent change. Twenty years or so ago I think that your statement would have been correct.

No, it is still correct, so be somewhat cautious how you fling around your cries of 'nonsense!".

As a practical matter, the law may be unenforceable -- the FBI is not going to raid your home and sieze your US passport because you have chosen to take another -- but it is still the law that, if you swear allegiance to a foreign power as you do when you assume another citizenship, you forfeit your US citizenship.

[GuestHouse]

Thank you OAH,

I took legal advice on this matter and have spoken directly with US Consul Officials on the issues surrounding dual citizenship for US Citizens.

There is even a warning in the notes page of the US Passport that warns of acts that can lead to loosing US citizenship.

If the OP is seriously considering persuing another nationality he should take early legal advice.

[soic]

Thank you OAH,

I took legal advice on this matter and have spoken directly with US Consul Officials on the issues surrounding dual citizenship for US Citizens.

There is even a warning in the notes page of the US Passport that warns of acts that can lead to loosing US citizenship.

If the OP is seriously considering persuing another nationality he should take early legal advice.

I agree... That's a Heck of a Bridge to burn. Once the citizenship would be lost, it would be a lot harder to get back, I'd think. It's easy to say... I want to change. It would be harder to actually have to live with it, or without it in this case. It's always good to be able to go HOME, if you need to. I'd think it through before I jumped.

[mittheimp]

Nonsense! The US government doesn't have any problem with dual citizenship. In fact, it says somewhere on one of the State Depts. websites that dual citizenship is OK.

Many US citizens have dual citizenship because they were born elsewhere and didn't give up their previous citizenship, but others acquired dual citizenship as adults. One of my cousins has dual US/Canadian citizenship (our mothers were born in Canada).

Some US citizens get dual citizenship through ancestry - countries like Germany, Italy and Ireland are fairly easy to get citizenship with if you can prove that a parent or grandparent came from there. Many US citizens have gone that route in order to work or do business in the EU more easily.

Some US citizens have acquired a second citizenship through residence and meeting other requirements. There are US/Thai citizens who post here on TV who can assure you that they did not have to surrender their US citizenship when they got their Thai passports!

This is a relatively recent change. Twenty years or so ago I think that your statement would have been correct.

which is a different example to what GH said!! He is talking about US citizens becoming something else - NOT citizens from another country coming to the US! (which is what you were on about!)

I'm sure a grovelling apology will make it alright!

[chingching]

I saw a website, but i forget what country it was from. Somewhere in Bahamas, but you could literally buy citizenship, It was not cheap, $160,000 or so. But there's no wait, u pay , u get a passport.

[Ulysses G.]

All of the conspiracy-theory nutters that I know keep claiming that America will be blown up by terrorists any day now.

Maybe a Singapore passport would be worth having?

[otherstuff1957]

OK, maybe nonsense was too strong a word . Here's the link to the state Dept. that I didn't look up earlier:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Here's what they actually have to say about it:

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

[mrbojangles]

You might gain another passport but you'll never lose your accent, ya'all

[GuestHouse]

And where does what I said conflict with #15?

And while working that out, consider also, what might have caused me to take legal advice on this matter and why I might have spoken to a US Consular Official on the matter of US Dual Nationality?

Edited September 14, 2006 by GuestHouse

[thohts]

Do you want to make a statement, or make it so that you don't ever have to return to the US again?

Renouncing citizenship from the US is kinda silly, I think. It may come in handy one day.

(The UK is getting to be too much like the US. In the paranoia aspect, it already is)

[boppia]

I think your could take the right to dual citizenship of all Americans to court. To me it seems that those who have dual citizenship have an advantage over those who do not. For example, take a Thai person who acquires dual citizenship with the US. That person will be able to do business in America and in Thailand without problems yet your average native-born citizen who wishes to do business in Thailand has his business options limited without citizenship in that country. Why let some Americans have dual citizenship and the opportunities that go with it and not allow others to have the same opportunities. It seems like discrimination to me.

If an American who seeks citizenship of a foreign country is seen as some sort of threat to the US then why wouldn't a foreigner who refuses to denounce his citizenship be seen as a threat?

There's really no grounds for denying some individuals opportunity while allowing it for others.

What do you think about this?

[TRIPxCORE]

As an American, unless you are born with a dual citizenship you cannot elect to become a citizen of another country without loosing your US Citizenship.

Thank you OAH,

I took legal advice on this matter and have spoken directly with US Consul Officials on the issues surrounding dual citizenship for US Citizens.

There is even a warning in the notes page of the US Passport that warns of acts that can lead to loosing US citizenship.

If the OP is seriously considering persuing another nationality he should take early legal advice.

A US Citizen can become a dual national, just like that link from the State Department showed. What this person is talking about is becoming a dual national but not revoking his US citizenship. I have even checked into this myself because I was born in the US but my father was born in Italy and I wanted dual US/Italian citizenship. It is allowed, there is nothing they can do about it.

[Sulaphat]

Here is another US Department of State policy statement which seems to confirm that the default mode is to allow dual nationality:

Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality

ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP

AND DUAL NATIONALITY

The Department of State is responsible for determining the citizenship status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States.

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING STATUTES

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

(2) taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

(3) entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

(4) accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or ( a declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

(5) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

(6) formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only "in time of war") (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

(7) conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE

As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship.The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to routine declarations of allegiance to a foreign state, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

DISPOSITION OF CASES WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE IS APPLICABLE

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

(1) is naturalized in a foreign country;

(2) takes a routine oath of allegiance or

(3) accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.

When, as the result of an individual's inquiry or an individual's application for registration or a passport it comes to the attention of a U.S. consular officer that a U.S. citizen has performed an act made potentially expatriating by Sections 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2), 349(a)(3) or 349(a)(4), the consular officer will simply ask the applicant if there was intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when performing the act. If the answer is no, the consular officer will certify that it was not the person's intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship and, consequently, find that the person has retained U.S. citizenship.

[britmaveric]

Dunno I'd think you'd swear allegience when you are sworn in as a citizen of another country.

[NovaBlue05]

All of the conspiracy-theory nutters that I know keep claiming that America will be blown up by terrorists any day now.

Yeah...but the Islamofascists know America is one bigassed country to "blow up" so they are currently migrating to Europe for advanced basic training in a friendlier climate.

[liketobe]

OK-listen up my friends-no matter where the loss of U.S. citizenship is discused the answer is all ways the same-you have to officialy declar it-no matter what other countrys passports you hold.

It is a separate issue that you take up with the U.S., if you do not take this action you retain U.S. citizenship-best to keep it simple like it realy is

[liketobe]

I think your could take the right to dual citizenship of all Americans to court. To me it seems that those who have dual citizenship have an advantage over those who do not. For example, take a Thai person who acquires dual citizenship with the US. That person will be able to do business in America and in Thailand without problems yet your average native-born citizen who wishes to do business in Thailand has his business options limited without citizenship in that country. Why let some Americans have dual citizenship and the opportunities that go with it and not allow others to have the same opportunities. It seems like discrimination to me.

If an American who seeks citizenship of a foreign country is seen as some sort of threat to the US then why wouldn't a foreigner who refuses to denounce his citizenship be seen as a threat?

There's really no grounds for denying some individuals opportunity while allowing it for others.

What do you think about this?

It may seem like discrimination but infact those who come to U.S. must follow the rules over a set period of time in order to gain citizenship just as we must follow the rules to get citizenship in there country. Those coming to the U.S. who proced legaly in any of the endevers they . chose have the advantage of the sistems benifits. The only real dicrimination is in the property ownership rules.

"dual citizenship of all americans to court" sorry your not thinking to good today as I am most of the time. What does the citizenship of another country have to do with U.S. court-nada zip and 0

[boppia]

liketobe, the issue, as I see it, is the current system discriminates against some Americans. Why should some Americans be able to benefit from the law and not others. I'm not complaining against Thai law. I just think two citizens from the same country should have the same rights and opportunities under the law. At the moment, Americans who wish to do business in Thailand without citizenship have many more requirements than those who do not, such as minimum investments for visas, visas payements and hassles, company ownership rules, etc? Meanwhile an American who has dual citizenship doesn't have to deal with this mess as far as I know.

As for recieving or having dual citizenship at the moment, unless you recieve it at birth or it is bestowed on you without choice, you may be breaking rules if you try to 'acquire' it.

Some countries give citizenship to 'outstanding' individuals. This would not be something someone has sought after yet under the law seem to be able to accept.

Something interesting which I believe is legal under the law is that Americans may fight in foreign armies. I'm not going to go net searching to back this up but I'm sure someone will. An Israeli soldier may be both an American and an Israeli.

Whatever the truth is the law seems to be typical BS language. It might be this way to slow the rush going out of the border and to get more US citizens to spend invest their money in the US.

[Thaiquila]

If you give up your US citizenship, the IRS will still go after you and legally can go after you, especially if they suspect you gave up your American citizenship to evade taxes.

I think there are some Caribbean countries where you can buy citizenship/passport: Grenada and Dominica for example.

Leaving the US because of bush is kind of silly. He is on his way out. Hallelujah!

http://bushclock.lose.com/

[vinny]

See also US won't give passport to US citizen

[soic]

Aside from old farts like us, I just don't see a mad rush of people wanting to leave the U.S. I believe the rush is virtually everyone from every other country that wants to go to America. I may not agree with everything that my country does, but I'd hate to lose my citizenship for any reason. It's a heck of a chance to take. I feel more safe with my American passport than I would without it. I'd be too afraid that I couldn't get it back if I really needed to. In reading the rules regarding citizenship, I believe that they've made it as easy as possible for someone to renounce their U.S. citizenship, what they've done is make it pretty much a one way road. It should give someone pause to consider whether it's a road worth travelling in the long run.

liketobe, the issue, as I see it, is the current system discriminates against some Americans. Why should some Americans be able to benefit from the law and not others. I'm not complaining against Thai law. I just think two citizens from the same country should have the same rights and opportunities under the law. At the moment, Americans who wish to do business in Thailand without citizenship have many more requirements than those who do not, such as minimum investments for visas, visas payements and hassles, company ownership rules, etc? Meanwhile an American who has dual citizenship doesn't have to deal with this mess as far as I know.

As for recieving or having dual citizenship at the moment, unless you recieve it at birth or it is bestowed on you without choice, you may be breaking rules if you try to 'acquire' it.

Some countries give citizenship to 'outstanding' individuals. This would not be something someone has sought after yet under the law seem to be able to accept.

Something interesting which I believe is legal under the law is that Americans may fight in foreign armies. I'm not going to go net searching to back this up but I'm sure someone will. An Israeli soldier may be both an American and an Israeli.

Whatever the truth is the law seems to be typical BS language. It might be this way to slow the rush going out of the border and to get more US citizens to spend invest their money in the US.

[jdinasia]

If you give up your US citizenship, the IRS will still go after you and legally can go after you, especially if they suspect you gave up your American citizenship to evade taxes.

I think there are some Caribbean countries where you can buy citizenship/passport: Grenada and Dominica for example.

Leaving the US because of bush is kind of silly. He is on his way out. Hallelujah!

http://bushclock.lose.com/

It used to be pretty easy to get a passport from Belize ...Probaby still is!