Ex-commerce minister out on Bt20m bail

[scorecard]

My belief H90 is that the UDD totally opposed amnesty for Suthep, Abhisit et al for perceived crimes. That is in my view where a big problem lies, without amnesty the country of Thailand slips back to a very dark age filled with revenge. Some believe that only Thaksin is corrupt in Thailand and some believe only the military and police are corrupt. Both views are wrong. Corruption is embedded in Thai society. They are some of the nicest people in the world but that does not stop them being corrupt.

I'll balance your belief against their voting record - how many voted against it? The SUPPORTERS of UDD may be totally against it, but the mercenary mouthpieces jump to Thaksin's tune. IIRC there was ONE abstention, and he was putting his income level at serious risk.

IMHO no-one believes "only Thaksin is corrupt." Only apologists believe that is a reason not to prosecute him and his lackeys.

You can correct me if I am wrong Halloween but I understood no UDD member or official can vote in Thailand's parliament because they are not a political party but an organisation or movement which is opposed to amnesty for all. I happen to disagree with the UDD about this. The amnesty I refer to was the one proposed for Abhisit and Suthep which I would support.

You understand wrongly. Most of the UDD "leadership" are also PTP MPs, a position given them as a reward for their criminal actions in 2010 and to (successfully) delay prosecution. Those MPs could have expressed their opposition by a vote against the amnesty - none did.

Abhisit and Suthep have no desire or need for an amnesty for charges laid to encourage them to accept it. the claim that as members of the government they acted as private citizens is illogical and farcical.

if you have any information of the UDD as an organisation, I would be happy to see it. Stuff like membership lists, how you join, when are votes for positions taken, who gets to vote, funding. Until I see such, I will continue to believe it is a political facade, with Thaksin's mercenary propagandists making paid pronouncements "for the people".

"if you have any information of the UDD as an organisation, I would be happy to see it. Stuff like membership lists, how you join, when are votes for positions taken, who gets to vote, funding. Until I see such, I will continue to believe it is a political facade, with Thaksin's mercenary propagandists making paid pronouncements "for the people".

Well said! I (and I'm sure many others) would like to see the same information.

Actually these same questions have been asked many times before. Example: When was the vote taken which puts jatuporn and tida before him into the 'chairpersons' job, who voted, who organized and counted the vote, is the count public information, were there any any other candidates, etc etc. There has never been any answer or response...not one word!

All of this from a mob who claim to be the champions of democracy!!! Transparency... none!

'Political facade'. Agreed, you can describe it many ways. I see it as a political fascade to attempt to cover the paymasters 'get real rich real quick club', huge gains coming from the common wealth of all Thais through scaly schemes / your turn at the trough.

Qualifications to join the 'get real rich real quick club' quite simple: no need for knowledge or insights which would benefit all Thais, no need for past valuable experiences, qualifications etc., which would be valuable to develop policies to take Thailand forward, actually not wanted.

Lack of ethics a plus, ability to just say 'yes' to everything with no conscience and keep your mouth shut a plus.

Edited June 15, 2015 by scorecard

[glenmohr]

Thank you Robby and Haloween for your opinions.

The Asian Correspondent, Oct 29th 2013, under the name of Saksith Saiyasombot and I quote " There is opposition coming from Pheu Thai's own supporter base, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, who issued a statement voicing their disagreement with the draft re write since it could potentially acquit those responsible for the deadly crack down on the anti government protests in 2010"

There was enough publicity around at that time of this statement and the notes accompanying to corroborate that the author got it right.

I disagree with the UDD on this matter.

It is only when the various factions that make up Thailand can forgive and reconcile that the country can move forward instead of being in virtual lockdown since 1932.

Those are not opinions they are facts.

And I see you sort of agree with them but still want to continue defending the indefensible.

So you believe the charges against the Ex commerce minister should just be dropped and forgotten about, no problem just let him keep his ill gotten gains. Same with all the other corruption so the corrupt can be reconciled and happy.

How does that work with the victims of corruption, in this case the taxpayer and their children who will be paying for the money borrowed to fund this scheme for many years.

Will they be happy to pay so the corrupt can get away with their crime and be happy ?

No way. Go after the corrupt prove them guilty in court then after jailing them for a very long time, strip them of their assets right down to their underwear to get as much back for the country and the people as possible.

Of course I agree with you if we were discussing theory, Robby. But to be practical, quite apart from discussing the hatred and venom that pervades Thailand, where are the extra police and where are the extra judges going to come from? Where will the new jails be built and who will fund it? Law breaking is rampant in Thailand. Balance can only be restored by wise parenting and school teachers setting an example into the future. All this frothing at the mouth and spewing hatred is actually not going to progress Thailand one inch. I was impressed when living in China at how many they were sending abroad to all 4 corners of the earth, police , lawyers, academics, I helped train some of them. They wanted to progress their society by taking the best of other societies and blending the learnings with their local society. That is what Thailand should be considering rather than spending all their time in revenge. In the current climate of fear and retribution 2010 could become a little blip compared to what may be unleashed next time. Amongst other things, I have made a study of Pol Pot and discovered he was an absolute nobody and a solo loose cannon until the elitists in Phnom Penh became so autocratic the rural people rose up under his previously un heard of rhetoric. Is this what you want for Thailand? , I hope not.

[scorecard]

Thank you Robby and Haloween for your opinions.

The Asian Correspondent, Oct 29th 2013, under the name of Saksith Saiyasombot and I quote " There is opposition coming from Pheu Thai's own supporter base, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, who issued a statement voicing their disagreement with the draft re write since it could potentially acquit those responsible for the deadly crack down on the anti government protests in 2010"

There was enough publicity around at that time of this statement and the notes accompanying to corroborate that the author got it right.

I disagree with the UDD on this matter.

It is only when the various factions that make up Thailand can forgive and reconcile that the country can move forward instead of being in virtual lockdown since 1932.

Those are not opinions they are facts.

And I see you sort of agree with them but still want to continue defending the indefensible.

So you believe the charges against the Ex commerce minister should just be dropped and forgotten about, no problem just let him keep his ill gotten gains. Same with all the other corruption so the corrupt can be reconciled and happy.

How does that work with the victims of corruption, in this case the taxpayer and their children who will be paying for the money borrowed to fund this scheme for many years.

Will they be happy to pay so the corrupt can get away with their crime and be happy ?

No way. Go after the corrupt prove them guilty in court then after jailing them for a very long time, strip them of their assets right down to their underwear to get as much back for the country and the people as possible.

Of course I agree with you if we were discussing theory, Robby. But to be practical, quite apart from discussing the hatred and venom that pervades Thailand, where are the extra police and where are the extra judges going to come from? Where will the new jails be built and who will fund it? Law breaking is rampant in Thailand. Balance can only be restored by wise parenting and school teachers setting an example into the future. All this frothing at the mouth and spewing hatred is actually not going to progress Thailand one inch. I was impressed when living in China at how many they were sending abroad to all 4 corners of the earth, police , lawyers, academics, I helped train some of them. They wanted to progress their society by taking the best of other societies and blending the learnings with their local society. That is what Thailand should be considering rather than spending all their time in revenge. In the current climate of fear and retribution 2010 could become a little blip compared to what may be unleashed next time. Amongst other things, I have made a study of Pol Pot and discovered he was an absolute nobody and a solo loose cannon until the elitists in Phnom Penh became so autocratic the rural people rose up under his previously un heard of rhetoric. Is this what you want for Thailand? , I hope not.

"...where are the extra police and where are the extra judges going to come from..."

"...Pol pot ..."

Ultimately these are not valid arguments and can never ever be toted as applicable arguments.

This is a bit like the big company which is going bankrupt, but all concerned say ' don't do anything because it will be too hard - just go bankrupt'.

Edited June 15, 2015 by scorecard

[halloween]

Thank you Robby and Haloween for your opinions.

The Asian Correspondent, Oct 29th 2013, under the name of Saksith Saiyasombot and I quote " There is opposition coming from Pheu Thai's own supporter base, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, who issued a statement voicing their disagreement with the draft re write since it could potentially acquit those responsible for the deadly crack down on the anti government protests in 2010"

There was enough publicity around at that time of this statement and the notes accompanying to corroborate that the author got it right.

I disagree with the UDD on this matter.

It is only when the various factions that make up Thailand can forgive and reconcile that the country can move forward instead of being in virtual lockdown since 1932.

The author certainly got it right. They publicly announced that they were against the amnesty, and then they voted for it, which is exactly what mercenary hypocrites are paid to do.

[Equalizer]

Another kick in the guts for the poor farmers who he and his mates were screwing, seeing them being able to put up tens of millions in bail while they, the poor farmers are struggling deep in debt.

That just shows your ignorance to the facts. Basically you have no clue about the scheme at all. The farmers lost out AFTER the coup when the banks where ordered to stop funding it. The scheme benefited the farmers tremendously. The internal corruption screwed the scheme and we are not talking about red shirts here. It failed because people in power who where against the scheme working made sure it would fail. ''Another kick in the guts for farmers hahaha'' clueless

I would call that blank lie. It was long before the coup that the government could not fund it anymore. They couldn't fund it because the couldn't sell the rice/the rice was rotten. There were lots of farmers who came to protest in Bangkok, partly separate, partly together with the PDRC. Several farmer suicide because they had debt, no money and no seeds for planting new rice. After the coup the military paid the farmers.

That the rice scheme won't work was clear from the beginning, but the amount of corruption and careless was not known for a long time.

Sorry i disagree. The rice was not rotten at all. Lots of it went missing yes but the rotten came later when the banks through pressure from the establishment ceased the loan funding. This rice scheme was the perfect opportunity for the opposition to sabotage internally. It was Yinglucks white elephant because the powers that be made it so.

[billd766]

Another kick in the guts for the poor farmers who he and his mates were screwing, seeing them being able to put up tens of millions in bail while they, the poor farmers are struggling deep in debt.

That just shows your ignorance to the facts. Basically you have no clue about the scheme at all. The farmers lost out AFTER the coup when the banks where ordered to stop funding it. The scheme benefited the farmers tremendously. The internal corruption screwed the scheme and we are not talking about red shirts here. It failed because people in power who where against the scheme working made sure it would fail. ''Another kick in the guts for farmers hahaha'' clueless

I would call that blank lie. It was long before the coup that the government could not fund it anymore. They couldn't fund it because the couldn't sell the rice/the rice was rotten. There were lots of farmers who came to protest in Bangkok, partly separate, partly together with the PDRC. Several farmer suicide because they had debt, no money and no seeds for planting new rice. After the coup the military paid the farmers.

That the rice scheme won't work was clear from the beginning, but the amount of corruption and careless was not known for a long time.

Sorry i disagree. The rice was not rotten at all. Lots of it went missing yes but the rotten came later when the banks through pressure from the establishment ceased the loan funding. This rice scheme was the perfect opportunity for the opposition to sabotage internally. It was Yinglucks white elephant because the powers that be made it so.

Try doing a little research on the subject before posting. It helps.

Under the law the banks were not allowed to lend the money to the caretaker government simply because the law states clearly that NO caretaker government can take on ANY extra debt. Only a proper working government can do so.

If they could the caretaker government could rack up trillions of baht of debt, not get elected and the new government would be left with the bill.

The rice scheme certainly WAS Yinglucks white elephant as it was all her idea (with perhaps some help from her brother). She initiated it, she was in charge of it, it was her responsibility. She dissolved the government but did NOT put the funding in place to pay the farmers because there was no money in the revolving self financing account to pay all the bills.

The powers that be had nothing to do with it at all.

[Robby nz]

Thank you Robby and Haloween for your opinions.

The Asian Correspondent, Oct 29th 2013, under the name of Saksith Saiyasombot and I quote " There is opposition coming from Pheu Thai's own supporter base, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, who issued a statement voicing their disagreement with the draft re write since it could potentially acquit those responsible for the deadly crack down on the anti government protests in 2010"

There was enough publicity around at that time of this statement and the notes accompanying to corroborate that the author got it right.

I disagree with the UDD on this matter.

It is only when the various factions that make up Thailand can forgive and reconcile that the country can move forward instead of being in virtual lockdown since 1932.

Those are not opinions they are facts.

And I see you sort of agree with them but still want to continue defending the indefensible.

So you believe the charges against the Ex commerce minister should just be dropped and forgotten about, no problem just let him keep his ill gotten gains. Same with all the other corruption so the corrupt can be reconciled and happy.

How does that work with the victims of corruption, in this case the taxpayer and their children who will be paying for the money borrowed to fund this scheme for many years.

Will they be happy to pay so the corrupt can get away with their crime and be happy ?

No way. Go after the corrupt prove them guilty in court then after jailing them for a very long time, strip them of their assets right down to their underwear to get as much back for the country and the people as possible.

Of course I agree with you if we were discussing theory, Robby. But to be practical, quite apart from discussing the hatred and venom that pervades Thailand, where are the extra police and where are the extra judges going to come from? Where will the new jails be built and who will fund it? Law breaking is rampant in Thailand. Balance can only be restored by wise parenting and school teachers setting an example into the future. All this frothing at the mouth and spewing hatred is actually not going to progress Thailand one inch. I was impressed when living in China at how many they were sending abroad to all 4 corners of the earth, police , lawyers, academics, I helped train some of them. They wanted to progress their society by taking the best of other societies and blending the learnings with their local society. That is what Thailand should be considering rather than spending all their time in revenge. In the current climate of fear and retribution 2010 could become a little blip compared to what may be unleashed next time. Amongst other things, I have made a study of Pol Pot and discovered he was an absolute nobody and a solo loose cannon until the elitists in Phnom Penh became so autocratic the rural people rose up under his previously un heard of rhetoric. Is this what you want for Thailand? , I hope not.

You are very keen on the word hate but I don't see things that way.

Neither do I believe that allowing criminals to get away with their crime and keep the proceeds of that crime will help or reconcile anyone but them. There are victims of almost all crime and some may be willing to forgive those who have committed crimes against them............. But...........As in South Africa; truth comes with reconciliation and unless the criminals are willing to confess, repent and recompense the victims then they should be charged with their crimes and if found guilty made to repay their victims for any losses the victims incurred along with ensuring that those convicted can never benefit from their crime in any way.

I agree with you that education is badly needed but that is a different subject as is Pol Pot who I have also read up on as well as visiting Cambodia and there is no possible way to compare Thailand now with Cambodia then or to compare with the way Pol Pot came to power.

This subject is about the precious minister of commerce and one fake G2G in particular, although this has yet to go to court and be proven one way or the other the fact that he and his cohorts have been through the impeachment process may give a good indication of which way a verdict is likely to go.

Until that court case is underway we will not see the evidence that the NACC presents against them but at this time we can access the evidence that was given to the NACC back in 2012. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600926-rice-deals-with-china-fake-thai-democrats/

That evidence includes statements that the rice which was supposedly sold to China was sold for only 300B per sack against a market price of around 1500B + per sack. With the quantity involved that was calculated to have made someone a profit of 20 billion B. If that is proved to be true then that was effectively stolen from the Thai people

Do you believe that should be forgotten and forgiven in the name of reconciliation ?

You know very well by now what I want for this country, you also know its not that far from what you want so please don't finish with silly questions.