I am fairly sure Immigration tries to illicit bad behavior … but don’t let them win.

[razer]

Today, June 17, went to Immigration at Chiangwattana … nice and early … to renew my retirement visa.

All my papers were in perfect order. Everything was perfect.

The junior officer went through my papers, ticked item by item and gave it to her supervisor.

Then supervisor does a check of my papers. She said I needed to update bank book.

I showed her the update was 16 June and today was 17 June. She said I still need to update bankbook.

Then the junior officer processing my application showed her the date of bank letter and update were the same.

The supervisor asked me if I had an ATM card to get update. I said this account does not have ATM card.

She was not happy.

She scrutinized my papers again and again. Then she said the passport photocopies were no good … they look like I scanned my passport and they want photocopies … and she said I had to make new photo copies … (Mind you, she was the same supervisor who accepted the same scanned passport photocopies last year.)

I was quiet, and polite and I got the same passport pages photocopied again … just for her.

Extension granted.

The MORAL of the story …. EXPECTATION … Expect the worst … Expect being hassled … and you won’t lose your temper. If it doesn’t happen and everything goes smoothly and efficiently … well then… when you get outside give a jump and click your heels and buy a round for your mates.

BUT ... if you did overlook something you have no one to blame but yourself ... so don't take it out on the Immigration officer.

Why does my brain always feel like I just finished reading a Kafka novel when I leave Immigration?

[Jingthing]

Well, I do think you're on to something.

It doesn't happen all the time but there is often some theater in the interaction between applicants and officers and I think it's about communicating the POWER relationship they have over us ... as if we didn't know.

[ubonjoe]

Chaeng Watana has been reported several tmes as wanting the bank book updated on the same day you apply.

Not sure how she would know they were scanned copies of your passport unless you changed the size or something.

[lopburi3]

I was at the same office this morning without issues - my passport copies were on center of normal A4 from my home printer copies. I used Embassy letter but bank account has always required current day proof at Chiang Watanna AFAIK (they have branches of most banks one floor down so an easy process and became the norm after the move there).

[Cuchulainn]

I was there too this morning to pick up my extension. Had to wait 90 mins for extension approval (30 days consideration). I see now that you have to go to desk L1 without a queue number instead of a normal queue number for counter "I".

Was longer than the old "I" counter but still a far cry from the bad old days at Sun Pluu!! Then got a Re entry Permit. In and out in just over 2 hours. Not bad and the staff are great!!

Take everything (had to get the kitchen sink past the Xrays!!) and dress neatly and behave politely.

Never had much of a problem at CW.

[Jingthing]

I took the OP's message not as literally as some.

Not so much about technical details or one specific office's policies, but more like sometimes, for seemingly irrational reasons, the officers are looking for something to give you a hassle about just for the sake of giving you a hassle. Also in the face of that, it's a challenge to remain calm because if you don't remain calm, you make it worse.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Chaeng Watana has been reported several tmes as wanting the bank book updated on the same day you apply.

Not sure how she would know they were scanned copies of your passport unless you changed the size or something.

She'd know my copies are scanned due to the superior quality.... colour gives it away too, but they've never complained at Jomtien.

Edited June 17, 2015 by tropo

[lopburi3]

Believe the issue may have been placement on A4 page as they want in center so can all be seen easily after bound in there folders. You can do this with your computer scanner in copy mode but if you try to print from computer it will likely want to place at top regardless of where it was when you scanned. Expect the feeling is computer adjusted printout could have been modified. Not to mention it may not be actual size.

[Kitsune]

I agree with the OP.

Hassle is the norm at Chaeng Wattana.

If you expect it you will have a better day.

You are lucky you only have to see them once a year.

[BuckBee]

I went to printing on basement floor at CW as supplying own even when exactly same or better in term of clarity printed at ITF's photocopy & printing shop was not good enough. is a total crap-shoot as can go for ages as acceptable then wrong officer & wrong day you get the Cartman 'respect my authoritah' treatment. I avoided immigration as much as possible as it makes my blood boil & I hate paying them the fees for forced butt licking . much prefer Singapore as rule are followed with clarity & humane understanding logic .

Edited June 17, 2015 by BuckBee

[partington]

I have done many extensions at Changwattana, and have never had a problem. This I think is a result of always expecting a problem and trying to pre-empt it.

If they specify photocopies then bring photocopies, if they want the bank book updated on the same day then do that. The same day requirement has been posted here numberless times, including at least twice by me.

Expect problems, do what they specify, not what you think makes sense, and bring every possible document you can think of to any immigration visit just in case. The worst thing that will happen is you carry a few extra papers around for an hour or so.

Bureaucrats DO like to exert power, but they can only do that if you break their arbitrary rules. So as far as you can, don't break them!

Edited June 17, 2015 by partington

[Time Traveller]

Let me give you the tip. Immigration officials are constantly being watched and any official seen to be friendly or not giving the applicant a difficult time will raise suspicion that there is some kind of bribery involved.

Always expect that any "perfect" application will result in requests for additional documents, explanations, witnesses, or threatened rejections.

I've experienced the same crap year after year. Nothing changes, documents same, but somehow they absoulutely need the same copy done again.

The only time when it was simple was when I was working and my employers had a "special" arrangement with immigration.

[ChrisB87]

To be fair, I always found them fine at CW. Even when I was supposed to have copied something which I didn't, they just told me to go copy it and come right back. I didn't lose me queue number.

If a particular office has a requirement try to fulfill it. If that means you update your passbook on the same day every year, so be it - then go for a pint.

[KhunBENQ]

Living in the sticks has its advantages (Khon Kaen)

Always have bank book and letter from the day before.

Once the officer pointed to the photo, smiling and told me that it is quite old.

"Next time bring new photo".

Worst incident ever: wife had not signed one of the copys.

How stupid of me Cost me tea money to avoid a 200 km roundtrip.

Longest time ever spent in the office: about 45 min.

Edited June 17, 2015 by KhunBENQ

[nzexpat]

Living in the sticks has its advantages (Khon Kaen)

Always have bank book and letter from the day before.

Once the officer pointed to the photo, smiling and told me that it is quite old.

"Next time bring new photo".

Worst incident ever: wife had not signed one of the copys.

How stupid of me Cost me tea money to avoid a 200 km roundtrip.

Longest time ever spent in the office: about 45 min.

What was being applied for that resulted in "tea" money having to be paid ?

[Litlos]

If you watch at CW the senior lady regularly sends someone off to get a photocopy. Then proceeds to make business/personal calls or do emails while waiting for the person to come back. I got the feeling she had a lot to do and needed some time to do it, hence off to the photocopy shop. If I was feeling uncharitable I would say she must have shares in the photocopy shop, but at the price they charge would be hard to make any real money on photocopies alone.

Is a bit annoying but she can also be helpful if required. Anyway next trip to immigration will be Jomtien in January, so will see how that goes.

Cheers

[Suradit69]

I took the OP's message not as literally as some.

Not so much about technical details or one specific office's policies, but more like sometimes, for seemingly irrational reasons, the officers are looking for something to give you a hassle about just for the sake of giving you a hassle. Also in the face of that, it's a challenge to remain calm because if you don't remain calm, you make it worse.

"the officers are looking for something to give you a hassle"

They must be able to determine who would be most easily set off ... especially those applicants who think they're playing a power game.

Many people seem to deal with immigrations year after year without any officer trying to "illicit" (generally known as "elicit") any kind of reaction. The farang fear of losing face must be evident in some more than others or at least some farang are better able to escalate the trivial things to conspiratorial drama.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Suradit69

[pmarlin]

Five retirement extensions done at CW and never a problem. Make my own copies at home using my all in one printer.

[stevenl]

So the Op had paperwork that did not meet the requirements of that office. But they still helped him, even though some of the other paperwork was also a bit iffy.

And that leads the OP to the conclusion "immigration illicits bad behavior'?

[dbrenn]

Well done to the OP for taking the high ground and showing restraint.

As hard as it is to keep your cool with the bureaucracy here, it is essential that you do or they will give you an even harder time.

[Langsuan Man]

IMHO, I think this story has absolutely nothing to do with the OP but was a power play between the junior officer and the supervisor, the OP just happened to be caught in the middle

[dbrenn]

IMHO, I think this story has absolutely nothing to do with the OP but was a power play between the junior officer and the supervisor, the OP just happened to be caught in the middle

Regardless, the OP got his visa and he can now curse the bureaucracy in private, not having anything to worry about for another year.

[nzexpat]

If I did not know better tales like this would fill me with dread .

It is, of course , also important to remember that here only one side of a story is told .......

I know, from many years experience, that when I attended immigration for yet another extension of stay that I will be treated politely by Officers who are both pleasant and professional.

Some "farang" perhaps need to examine their own attitudes and behaviour .

Edited June 18, 2015 by nzexpat

[NancyL]

Remember that all the forms are checked by a supervisor after the Immigration officer interviews you. There could be a power struggle going on between the I/O and his/her superior, thus the apparent change in what's acceptable from one year to the next -- maybe a change in who is checking the person's work.

I agree though, there is an sometimes an element of the I/O just making up silly "rules" just so you have to trot off to the copy shop so they can make a personal phone call or so they can have a little power rush. I don't think they do it, though, to "try to illicit bad behavior". Do they really want to see us have a major farang fit in front of them?

[alantheembalmer]

I was at the same office this morning without issues - my passport copies were on center of normal A4 from my home printer copies. I used Embassy letter but bank account has always required current day proof at Chiang Watanna AFAIK (they have branches of most banks one floor down so an easy process and became the norm after the move there).

They have always accepted a letter from my bank from the previous day. Unfortunately, I have an account that requires a letter from head office in downtown Bangkok, so it would be virtually impossible for me to get to the bank, sit around for an hour, or two, then get to CW. It sometimes takes a bit of explaining about what type of account is, but so far they have accepted it. As others have said, I sometimes get the impression that the "Boss Lady" is exercising her authority over her subordinates, and we are just incidental bystanders.

However, sometimes things do seem a little odd. My wife's friend recently went to CW for her first retirement extension, and they said that the bank letter she gave them was a forgery! She asked them to ring the bank, which they did, but would still not accept it. Maybe they had taken the issue too far to then back down; who knows? Anyway, she left after being there over 4 hours with no extension, but with plenty of confusion and annoyance.

[Oceanbat]

Remember that all the forms are checked by a supervisor after the Immigration officer interviews you. There could be a power struggle going on between the I/O and his/her superior, thus the apparent change in what's acceptable from one year to the next -- maybe a change in who is checking the person's work.

I agree though, there is an sometimes an element of the I/O just making up silly "rules" just so you have to trot off to the copy shop so they can make a personal phone call or so they can have a little power rush. I don't think they do it, though, to "try to illicit bad behavior". Do they really want to see us have a major farang fit in front of them?

Agree. I also think they try and illicit it out of Thais as well. I often think public servants in Thailand are selected on their ability to take one look at you and figure out what document you don't have with you and they will ask for it. Even if you have called ahead the day before to confirm exactly what is required. They seem to forget they are public servants. If you have had any experience dealing with similar government departments in Singapore/HK or even Japan it's a dream by comparison.

OB

[partington]

I was at the same office this morning without issues - my passport copies were on center of normal A4 from my home printer copies. I used Embassy letter but bank account has always required current day proof at Chiang Watanna AFAIK (they have branches of most banks one floor down so an easy process and became the norm after the move there).

They have always accepted a letter from my bank from the previous day. Unfortunately, I have an account that requires a letter from head office in downtown Bangkok, so it would be virtually impossible for me to get to the bank, sit around for an hour, or two, then get to CW. It sometimes takes a bit of explaining about what type of account is, but so far they have accepted it. As others have said, I sometimes get the impression that the "Boss Lady" is exercising her authority over her subordinates, and we are just incidental bystanders.

However, sometimes things do seem a little odd. My wife's friend recently went to CW for her first retirement extension, and they said that the bank letter she gave them was a forgery! She asked them to ring the bank, which they did, but would still not accept it. Maybe they had taken the issue too far to then back down; who knows? Anyway, she left after being there over 4 hours with no extension, but with plenty of confusion and annoyance.

You have got the wrong end of the stick here (and I suspect with your forgery tale also, but that's a separate issue.)

What the OP was discussing, that needs a same day update, is the photocopy of the last bankbook page NOT the bank letter.

Bank letters from the day before (and longer sometimes) have always been fine at CW, as long as the total in your account detailed in the bank letter is the same total as the last entry in your bankbook, which must be updated on the day you make your application.

[JLCrab]

Just to help those who especially are not native English speakers:

ILLICIT means contraband or illegal

ELICIT means to evoke or draw out a response.

And I have never had a problem of any consequence at the Khon Kaen office since it opened.

[razer]

To be fair, I always found them fine at CW. Even when I was supposed to have copied something which I didn't, they just told me to go copy it and come right back. I didn't lose me queue number.

If a particular office has a requirement try to fulfill it. If that means you update your passbook on the same day every year, so be it - then go for a pint.

My bank, LH Bank, is a small bank that pays a higher interest than the big banks. They do not have any machines or a branch at or near the Immigration office.

Just what can happen to an update made less then 24 hours before getting a queue number?

My visa deposit has been active for two years. If it were a dodgy deposit just for the visa extension I'd just let the benefactor withdraw the money a day after I got my extension as would anyone with the dodgy deposit.

[partington]

To be fair, I always found them fine at CW. Even when I was supposed to have copied something which I didn't, they just told me to go copy it and come right back. I didn't lose me queue number.

If a particular office has a requirement try to fulfill it. If that means you update your passbook on the same day every year, so be it - then go for a pint.

My bank, LH Bank, is a small bank that pays a higher interest than the big banks. They do not have any machines or a branch at or near the Immigration office.

Just what can happen to an update made less then 24 hours before getting a queue number?

My visa deposit has been active for two years. If it were a dodgy deposit just for the visa extension I'd just let the benefactor withdraw the money a day after I got my extension as would anyone with the dodgy deposit.

See post 27: it's the bank book that must be updated on the same day as the application NOT the letter from the bank saying how much you have in the account.

I always get the letter dated the day before I make the application for the extension at CW, but after I get the letter I deposit 1000B using a machine, then on the morning of the application I use a machine to take this 1000B out again, and use the bankbook updating machine to get a same day update giving a total that is identical to that on the letter.

This is very easy, can be done anywhere there are ATM/bankbook updaters and many hours before you travel to CW if you wish. I have always done this and it's always been accepted without question at CW.