Tea awareness in Thailand

[honu]

I could only comment about what I've tried from Dilmah, since surely they make a range of products, but their tea bags are not so good, and loose black tea is ok.

What I've tried was typical machine-made CTC tea though, astringent enough that if you don't prefer to drink tea with milk or sugar, or both, most people probably wouldn't like it.

[honu]

I just visited a World of Coffee and Tea Expo at Impact (in Bangkok, really Nonthaburi, close enough), and Dilmah had a booth there (related to the last post).

They seemed to have loose teas that might be on the level of what Twinings sells, although since I've not been drinking a lot of Twinings or Dilmah that comparison is just a guess. They sell mostly Ceylon teas (from Sri Lanka, the old British colony name there, which stuck to the tea).

They had lots of flavored blend tea bags at their display booth last weekend (a week ago now), but sold other teas like "darjeeling" and "lapsang souchong" (both almost certainly from the region in India and from the related Wuyishan area in Fujian, China, respectively). Since they weren't offering samples of those teas I can't say how they were. I tried a tea-bag version of a loose oolong from Sri Lanka (my first) and it was pretty awful; could've as easily not been tea in that bag. But then tea dust is often like that.

It sounds like a negative conclusion about Dilmah teas is implied, but I don't mean it that way; I've really not tried their better teas.

There wasn't a lot more there to see related to tea, oddly. This blog post says what was there, another Ceylon vendor, a standard Thai commercial tea producer (Boon Rawd, the company that makes Singha), and one smaller producer vendor, Chaidim, but only one of their teas really stood out for me. I've been to an organic foods expo that seemed to do more with presenting different teas; I'll keep my eyes open for that. There was a booth related to a Nespresso compatible coffee capsule machine that made tea with results from that a bit inconclusive. Really it doesn't seem possible that above average tea can be brewed in 15 to 20 second using a similar process to expresso but I only tried one, that orangish "Thai tea," and it was ok, not great.

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-bangkok-world-of-coffee-and-tea-expo.html

[honu]

Greetings again! At the risk of talking to myself in this thread I'll mention another category of teas I've been on lately, aged oolongs.

Why would someone let a perfectly good oolong get old, to wait a decade or two to drink it (or much longer)? One answer is that the character of the tea changes, and improves, if someone likes the characteristics that develop.

A different answer is that trends in tea come and go and this was just one more variation, a way for teas that were set aside for different reasons to become an in-demand new category.

I've recently tried three relatively old oolongs, a 21 year old version from Thailand, a 30 year old tea from Taiwan (both of those Chin Shin, one traditional plant type from Taiwan), and a 40 year old Tie Kuan Yin from China, which I tried in a Bangkok Chinatown tea shop, Jip Eu. I really liked the Thai tea and the other two were interesting but less enjoyable.

The related blog posts go into lots of detail about them, and why I didn't like the two, but the Taiwanese tea tasted a bit musty for a few infusions, and the Chinese tea was unusual, structured and complex but not really pleasant in the sense of having nice flavors (it tasted like coffee; I guess a good thing for a coffee drinker).

There is talk of a "taste of age" that comes with aged teas, a consistent type of flavor profile, or other related aspects, a feel. The teas were complex, all of them, but it works best when those tastes are in a pleasant range, not just unique and complicated. More on all that in write-ups:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/07/trying-40-year-old-tie-kuan-yin-at-jip.html

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/07/comparing-aged-teas-21-and-30-year-old.html

[honu]

More of me just talking to myself about tea; my favorite tea shop in Pattaya (Tea Village) added a small seating section, so having tea on-site there is an option now, with scones and such available related to whatever they prepare just then.

 

Seems there should be more to update.  I've been trying teas from Nepal lately, and pu'er, compressed tea from China, commission-produced versions by a shop in Kuala Lumpur, Golding.  I just tried an exceptional pu'er-style tea from Myanmar, sold by the Tea Side vendor.  It's interesting how those variations of known types works out; for example, Nepal is 50 miles from the growing areas in Darjeeling, so they are making similar teas, which can be quite different when they use different processing styles or tea plant types.  The tea growing area in Myanmar is right across the border from where pu'er is made, Yunnan, with the old traditions not necessarily divided by where the current border lies.  The tea trees themselves can be hundreds of years old, although age of trees is a hot topic, not easy to determine, and often exaggerated for marketing purposes, but regardless of that the tradition extends over that long time-frame.

 

Nothing new has been coming up related to Thai teas.  I gave a presentation introducing Thai tea to an expat meet-up group  event, Random Thainess, in Sathorn, BKK, over a month ago now, nothing new, but the summary and discussion format was different.  I'll add some blog links in case any of that is of interest, along with including a picture of that shop cafe area here (so small it's not really a cafe, but it works out similarly).

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/09/random-thainess-expat-meet-up.html

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/10/myanmar-old-tree-hei-cha-sheng-from-tea.html

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/10/kanchanjangha-estate-nepalese-teas.html

 

 

[honu]

Always more awareness to get to on this subject theme, and most recently about Christmas theme teas.  I wrote two blog posts about making two different blend versions recently:

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/12/standard-christmas-tea-blend-revisited.html

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/12/making-chocolate-covered-cherry.html

 

The short version is that black tea combined with clove, cinnamon, orange, and any number of other ingredients can be considered a Christmas / holiday themed tea blend.  In the one post I took that in a different direction, and used cacao nibs to make a chocolate covered cherry blend.

 

It's a completely different subject but I researched caffeine in a recent post, how much is too much, about withdrawal, and the long term effects of caffeine intake.  Anxiety is part of that, of course, a potential side effect, especially past the normal recommended limit of 400 mg per day (over four cups of coffee, or around ten cups of tea).  The interesting twist was that even if insomnia isn't an issue caffeine can change your REM cycle during sleep, possibly resulting in a long-term drop in energy and clarity.

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/12/effects-of-long-term-caffeine.html

 

 

[llp]

I recently got some Oolong Number 17, comes from Doi Mae Salong in Chiang Rai.  My first quality tea it was 380 baht / 200 grams.  Whole leafs and organic.  Thoughts on this tea? I've been cold brewing it overnight.

 

[honu]

On 1/20/2017 at 3:56 PM, llp said:

I recently got some Oolong Number 17, comes from Doi Mae Salong in Chiang Rai.  My first quality tea it was 380 baht / 200 grams.  Whole leafs and organic.  Thoughts on this tea? I've been cold brewing it overnight.

 

 

I just saw a tea that must be either that or nearly the same thing on sale at Central Embassy, for essentially that same price (320, that one, but tea versions do vary).  That's more or less the tea that got me really interested in tea, although I'd been drinking Japanese green tea and tried farmer produced tea from Laos well before that.

 

I could ramble on about background lots.  Number 17 is nice tea (a nice plant for making tea out of, to be clearer), a cultivar / hybrid from a numbered series from Taiwan that is named Bai Lu, but more typically incorrectly called Ruan Zhi here (which is a different one).  The other main type they plant and sell is number 12, or Jin Xuan, known for being buttery, for having a rich taste and feel, with number 17 having a hint of spice to it too, so maybe a little more complexity.  The most traditional and common oolong-basis plant type in Taiwan is Chin Shin (I lose track of transliteration conventions a little, maybe also called Qin Xin, but one is seen as more correct now, based on mainland China embracing standardization more).  It's possible to find Thai teas from that plant but not common.

 

Thai oolongs are nice, but some from Taiwan tend to be better.  I've heard that the best Thai oolongs go to Taiwan to be sold as fakes, counterfeit tea, so maybe there is better from here that doesn't make it to the market.  There are actually different types and versions of Royal Project products but in general those tend to be ok, and consistent.

 

Cold brewing is trendy in the US now, for quite some time.  I tend to use it more to get the last of a tea that I've brewed a couple of times but don't have time to wait on just then.  I've not experimented with it enough when only cold brewing to know what the advantages and drawbacks are, or how well it works to decompress the tightly rolled balls only by sitting those in cold water over time.  The typical understanding is that it brings out good flavors from teas but limits astringency, which really isn't much of an issue for Thai oolongs anyway, but it potentially could still be better that way, or as with many other aspects might just depend on preference. 

[honu]

I've been writing so much about tea lately I wanted to check in about all that, although not much has a close tie to Thailand.  I've been drinking teas from Taiwan, based on visiting Taipei on a short stop on the way back from the US.  I also did some tea shopping and wrote about that.

 

Before that trip I was trying some Darjeeling (Gopaldhara), and new teas from Farmerleaf, a Jing Mai Yunnan vendor, and I've been doing more with teas from Nepal lately, and have a new batch from a new source to talk about.  I keep reviewing teas from my favorite producer in Wuyishan, China, last some black teas and a bit of Dan Cong (that's from a different area), and now she's just sent more Wuyi Yancha to try.  I'll mention some posts and one tea event coming up and get back in touch about those Nepal teas and oolongs.

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/680799915428022/

 

A tea event at a Bangkok cafe, February 24, more or less an open tasting event at Seven Suns in Ekamai

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/01/searching-for-tea-in-taipei-taiwan.html

 

About tea shopping in Taipei, Taiwan, with a different post reviewing an Oriental Beauty (not mentioned here)

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/01/tea-shopping-in-new-york-city.html

 

About tea shopping in New York City, with a bit about where I went and what I bought and also about notable places I missed

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/12/farmerleaf-moonlight-white-from-jing.html

 

Review of a moonlight white from Farmerleaf in Jing Mai.  It's hard to say what that is, just a type of white tea, but it's also sometimes associated with pu'er, although I fail to see much connection.

 

 

[honu]

I get it that most people don't share my obsession with tea, but I wanted to post a reminder that there is a tea-themed social event this week, on Friday the 24th at the Seven Suns cafe in Ekamai (Bangkok):

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/680799915428022/

 

It's a little off the page I'm typically on but they do serve tea coctails there.  I would tend to drink tea when it's time for that and beer when it's time to drink alcohol but it should work.

[eve55]

I love tea

[honu]

On 5/26/2017 at 2:34 PM, eve55 said:

I love tea

cool, that's more like it.  which types?

[honu]

I wrote a guide on tea options in Bangkok (to a lesser extent throughout Thailand), covering types made and cafe and shop options.  The post mentions a couple of online sources but mostly skips that part, sticking to physical shop outlets.

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/07/tea-in-thailand-thai-tea-types-and.html

 

I reviewed a Royal Project Jin Xuan (#12) not long ago, a good example of a basic, reasonable quality, inexpensive Thai tea.  I bought 100 grams of that version for 100 baht, enough dry loose tea to make dozens of cups nice light oolong tea for roughly the cost of a cup of coffee (or maybe three bubble tea drinks).  I usually drink higher end teas, rarer, more costly and more unusual versions but as far as buying good tea for good value goes this type can't be beat:

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/07/thai-royal-project-jin-xuan-oolong-12.html

[llp]

Whats your favorite white tea that can be bought in Chiang Mai or ordered online?  I would would prefer USDA organic or a trusted source farmer to consumer.  I tried moonsoon white needle tea but prefer the royal thai projects white tea it had a much more richer and deep taste.  Also, your favorite organic green tea?  I'm switching from oolongs to less processed tea that have a more gentle taste.  

 

What's your thought on royal thai projects tea when it comes to pesticide use?  If I am consuming a little bit of a product whether  its tea in a cafe or some vegetable I don't mind so much about organic or non organic farming, but if its something I consume everyday in large quantities I'd like it to be as chemical free as possible.

[honu]

I don't live in Chiang Mai so I wouldn't be a good reference for what is available there.  Other than Monsoon one of the plantations uses a shop in the airport as a sales outlet, and besides that I don't know of other vendors.  Online sourcing expands range to absolutely everywhere but I still don't have much for Thai white tea sources to pass on.  

 

I don't tend to love silver needle teas, preferring the complexity that comes with using some leaf material as well (so Bai Mu Dan style teas, or Moonlight whites, which seems to also be a reference to sourcing from Fuding area teas versus Yunnan teas).  I reviewed that one "wild" Monsoon vendor version that was nice but a bit unusual, but I've never tried another version of Thai white tea that fits that description at all.  

 

I'll mention sources from a number of other local countries at the end and you can look through them and see what you think, one from Laos, Indonesia, Vietnam, and both Yunnan and Wuyishan (Fujian) in China.  Really there would be good options for Fuding teas too (a main Chinese area for white teas), I've just not ran across a great source to pass on.  The one seller is a vendor that makes and sells teas in Wuyishan (Fujian, China), Wuyi Origin, someone I'm more familiar with.  I've never tried their white teas, to be honest, only their oolongs and black teas, which they are famous for, and also oolongs made in Chaozhou (Dan Cong, versus Wuyi Yancha).  I would expect their claims related to teas being grown without use of chemicals is accurate, but you would do well to take other people's opinions for what they are worth, including my own.

 

Green tea is my least favorite type of tea.  That makes it hard to recommend those or keep track of what seems best, being outside my typical range of preference.  I do drink Longjing, one exception, probably the main Chinese green tea type, which tends to be less grassy and vegetal due to how it is processed, tasting more nutty or like toasted rice.  The Thailand vendor Tea Village sells a decent version but it really is mid-range; for people really into that tea type it might not be the quality level they are looking for.  Again I don't have a suggestion for a better online source.  I've bought good Longjing versions in shops in the Bangkok Chinatown, and a US vendor friend passed on a competition grade version once that was better than those.

 

It's a tough question related to the amount of chemicals in Royal Project tea.  I'd only be passing on hearsay, little better than a guess.  From what I've heard Thai teas in general are grown using more chemicals than is typical for other types, and that may or may not be true of those sold through Royal Project outlets.  It's hard to know who to trust related to claims about that.  Organic certifications mean something, they do testing related to that, but from what I've heard "local" certifications and testing processes outside those defined and enforced by European and US agencies may not mean as much.  

 

Just because there isn't a claim based around a certification there may not necessarily be chemicals used.  At a guess in all these sources mentioned at the end far less chemicals would be used than for most Thai tea sources, but the claims that each is completely organic I'm not so sure about.  Toba Wangi grows teas in a conventional farm set-up, giving them good control over the inputs, and they sell directly, but others growing in more "natural" environments may be better set up to grow tea effectively without using chemicals.  Only Wuyi Origin of the others is the actual farmer, the one growing and picking tea, and a lot of that within the natural park area in Wuyishan, where chemicals cannot be brought in (to some extent they monitor that).  The others may understand that their teas are grown without use of any chemical pesticides but they may or may not know.  It's really hard to place what "organic" even means since a naturally derived chemical can also be unhealthy, and the "organic" restriction would still allow that use.  I research random topics related to tea but haven't went far with reviewing organic farming or contaminant issues yet.

 

Those other vendors (I can talk more about these, if you have questions, and I've reviewed white teas by all of them, except from Wuyi Origin):

 

https://www.facebook.com/kinnaritea/  (Laos tea, reseller and processing consultant)

 

http://www.tobawangi.com/products/speciality-tea/  (Indonesian tea, plantation owner and processor) 

 

https://www.farmer-leaf.com/  (Yunnan tea producer and reseller; their involvement depends on product type)

 

http://drinksbeansandleaves.com/  (Indonesia vendor background page:  http://hatvala.com/hatvalacoffe/teas-vietnam)

 

http://www.wuyiorigin.com/  (Wuyishan, Fujian tea grower and producer)

[honu]

Related to the subject of getting started on tea coming up in Facebook groups and Reddit threads I wrote a post about that:

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/09/advice-to-beginners-about-tea.html

[honu]

This thread isn't really working to promote discussion here but I'll mention a few more recent themes anyway.  I just wrote about tea devices, an overview of types used to brew tea, and about ideal brewing temperature for oolong, and the best storage conditions for pu'er (compressed tea that improves with age).  In case any of those are of interest I'll add links to make clicking there easier.  The last also covers what relative humidity is in detail, a bit of a chemistry basics tangent.

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/11/tea-gear-on-brewing-devices.html

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/11/is-there-one-best-oolong-brewing.html

 

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2017/11/puer-storage-optimums-and-relative.html

[honu]

The latest thing I'm into, beyond trying lots of teas, which I'm passing on mentioning here, is tea tastings.  I held a free, open tea tasting at the Benjasiri Park about three weeks ago, which went well. 

 

Tomorrow (as of time of posting this) I'll hold a second at the Dusit Zoo, on Saturday the 18th, from 10 to 12 AM at the food court there, beside the elephant pen and acrobatics show.   The idea is to share tea experience, since writing blog posts and mentioning tea in forums only goes so far. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/245314849431085/

 

We'll probably try a compressed white tea (Gong Mei), a fresh Nepalese white tea, some version of oolong that's not standard, a black tea (maybe an aged Shai Hong, a Yunnan black), and most likely some sheng and shou pu'er, compressed Yunnan tea, with the second type pre-fermented.  Few enough tea enthusiasts would have ever tried all that, and for people not really into tea hardly any of it would ring a bell.  There's no need to bring anything if you do want to join, just try not to run too late, since that place will get really crowded at noon, and setting aside seating after 11 won't work.  I don't plan to accept any donations; the theme is just sharing some tea.  That zoo closes the end of this month so it's a good time to check it out too.