Greece, creditors dig in their heels on eve of meeting

[micmichd]

Spending other peoples money like drunken sailors on shore leave and then complaining about

having to pay some of it back and insisting on more so they can get the party restarted. Some

have the nerve.

Banks do it all the time.

[micmichd]

The Greek PM and his Finance Minister both look and beahav like theirs doesn't stink. Where I come from, if you borrow money, from a bank for instance, you pay it back with interest - simple fact. Expecting the likes of the German taxpayer to bail them out and then ask for a chunk of it to just be written off is at best naive in the extreme.

Left-wingers are entitled to other people's money...

It's all 'ill-gotten' anyway.

The loonies have taken over the asylum in Greece.

Which loonies, which asylum?

Banks and capital want more and more money, Greek workers and pensioners want to live. There's no such thing as tax-financed welfare in Greece, so either or. Life for the working people, or sacifrice them for bank capital. It's the people (the bodies) that elect a government, so the Greek government is doing their job.

You're sociopaths if you value capital interest higher than human life.

Edited June 18, 2015 by micmichd

[Squeegee]

And then there's those Greeks who avoided paying any taxes for years now crying boo hoo.

But more than any other foolishness, they voted in a government on the basis they would get the EU to give them what they want, as if that wasn't some deeply misguided and childish fantasy.

[Anthony5]

Fine Greece last chance of today to reach an agreement has failed. Their next last chance will be Monday, and probably the last one after that last one on Wednesday, but the very very very last chance most possibly on Friday next week, until the reach an agreement, that the Greeks have no intention to honor anyway, on Monday 29 June so that the bail out money is released the next day.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-merkel-presses-greece-deliver-reform-074225455.html

8:00 p.m. (1800 GMT, 2:00 p.m. EDT)

A summit of the eurozone's 19 leaders has been called for Monday to find a breakthrough in Greece's bailout talks following another failure at a meeting Thursday.

[Basil B]

Mr Tsiparas please dont cut the pension of costas, we need him here on TV!

Interesting comment, Costas seems to have been unusually silent of late. He usually comments on just about everything, but I've seen nothing for a while now?

Yes, I miss Costas and his wisdom...

Hope he is well.

[stevenl]

There is simply no way this can be repaid. Grexit is the only option left.

[micmichd]

"no way this can be repaid"

Maybe you're right. So, what? Deficit spending is common procedure in Europe.

"Grexit"

means Greece would not be part of EU economy, EU legal system and EU military system anymore. Greece would have her own laws, and event seek military help from Russia.

Turkey wouldn't like that, but has problems with the Kurds who now turn out to be the strongest power against IS. Etc etc.

So, Grexit is an option with all ķinds of possible consequences you wouldn't like to take into account because then you wouldn't be able to sleep at night anymore.

EU can redefine "Grexit" if they want to, the sheeple usually accept everything.

And then tell you "here have your Grexit now, but we had to introduce a special welfare program for Greece"

Other options are thinkable.

[robblok]

"no way this can be repaid"

Maybe you're right. So, what? Deficit spending is common procedure in Europe.

"Grexit"

means Greece would not be part of EU economy, EU legal system and EU military system anymore. Greece would have her own laws, and event seek military help from Russia.

Turkey wouldn't like that, but has problems with the Kurds who now turn out to be the strongest power against IS. Etc etc.

So, Grexit is an option with all ķinds of possible consequences you wouldn't like to take into account because then you wouldn't be able to sleep at night anymore.

EU can redefine "Grexit" if they want to, the sheeple usually accept everything.

And then tell you "here have your Grexit now, but we had to introduce a special welfare program for Greece"

Other options are thinkable.

Just kick the Greeks out they are not Europeans they are lazy people who live of the European subsidies (sure they are corrupt to get those). We should never have let those cheats in the Eu. These people are nothing but trouble. Send them back to their 3 world status and make sure they can never loan money again. Make them serve as an example what happens when you don't pay back what you loaned.

No welfare for the Greeks.. really dump hard. Stupid arrogant people

Edited June 19, 2015 by robblok

[robblok]

There is simply no way this can be repaid. Grexit is the only option left.

Agreed take our losses and make sure it hurts the Greeks a lot because we loose out too.

[NongKhaiKid]

Off to see Putin now.

Greek PM supposedly to meet Putin today but BBC reporting Russia is denying it will offer any funds.

A question might be does Russia have the type of money needed to loan and as things stand who's prepared to trust Greece ?

[robblok]

Off to see Putin now.

Greek PM supposedly to meet Putin today but BBC reporting Russia is denying it will offer any funds.

A question might be does Russia have the type of money needed to loan and as things stand who's prepared to trust Greece ?

I am soon new sayings will spout like as untrustworthy as a Greek and so on. Or don't go Greek on me (refusing to pay) ect. I for one have had it with those guys. They cause nothing but trouble. We should take our losses now instead of letting this saga go on. Make sure they feel it too and then let the Greek populace deal with their leaders. They are the ones who are responsible not Eu.

Maybe they come begging back after they have been kicked out, but should never be allowed back in.

[Basil B]

Suggestions Greek banks will have no money by Monday.

OMG... I bet Oxfam is already planning it's next appeal...

[micmichd]

So, Greeks (the inventors of democracy) are not European? What are they? Asians?

Aristoteles Onassis - was he also an Asian, or what?

Your willingness to sacrifice everything to money is well noticed.

It's the paranoia of a dying middle class that wanted (and pretend) to be upper class. Sorry, you failed, and, please, don't blame it on the "third world".

We already know you're only liberal to people from the "third world" as long as you can squeeze some money out of them. You don't care if they starve or die when they have nothing to add for "your" personal wealth anymore. Would you care if someone came up and physically kill them? I doubt it.

[micmichd]

ECB is afraid that Greek banks are running out of money soon...

Where's the advice from those Euro political experts here?

Grexit and bank run, or not?

Edited June 19, 2015 by micmichd

[robblok]

So, Greeks (the inventors of democracy) are not European? What are they? Asians?

Aristoteles Onassis - was he also an Asian, or what?

Your willingness to sacrifice everything to money is well noticed.

It's the paranoia of a dying middle class that wanted (and pretend) to be upper class. Sorry, you failed, and, please, don't blame it on the "third world".

We already know you're only liberal to people from the "third world" as long as you can squeeze some money out of them. You don't care if they starve or die when they have nothing to add for "your" personal wealth anymore. Would you care if someone came up and physically kill them? I doubt it.

They loan they pay up, besides the Greeks are known to be lazy. Look at the age they retire and stuff like that. The Greeks who invented democracy would turn around in their grave if they knew what idiots their ancestors are. But please come with a bit more recent example of things Greeks have done. Who says the ancient Greeks are the same as those who live now.

They should blame their government and not the ones that loaned it, they are the ones who brought them in trouble. I feel no pity for people living above their means and then moaning when the creditors come to collect.

Its unfair to other Europeans to pay for those lazy Greeks, they work longer and harder while the Greeks retire far to early and when they work

[micmichd]

I happen to be German. Sorry for that, I was forced to be, also forced to join the Euro zone without any referendum.

I know quite a few Greeks, none of them as lazy as an average German.

The factual average retirement age in Greece is 61.4 years, exactly the same as in Germany.

The big difference is, the Germans get welfare (paid by me, the taxpayer) even if they never worked in their lives and consequently don't quality for Social Security. No such thing as welfare in Greece, sometimes a whole family is dependent on a pension.

Me (the taxpayer) thinks: Welfare for all people, or no welfare at all.

Where "people" means: the people that worked (wheresoever) or raised children.

Me (the bank customer) thinks: Hands off my property, fees only for useful services that I asked for, pay interest if you want my money to "work".

Where "bank" means: European bank.

Edited June 19, 2015 by micmichd

[SheungWan]

Off to see Putin now.

Greek PM supposedly to meet Putin today but BBC reporting Russia is denying it will offer any funds.

A question might be does Russia have the type of money needed to loan and as things stand who's prepared to trust Greece ?

One of the first places hot Russian money went to after the collapse of the USSR was Greece. There will be a few Russians with assets just waiting to have those assets re-assessed in New Drachmas. Same church so one big happy family really.

[micmichd]

According to German SPIEGEL, Greek banks are running out of Euro cash now.

Time is money, run or relax...

Edited June 19, 2015 by micmichd

[micmichd]

See, cybernetics (the art of governance) works when it comes to bank runs.

I'm quite confident they'll find a solution which allows both sides to keep face - maybe by redefintions, maybe we get another new word in the political dictionary.

The main problems remain: The logical impossibility of exponential economic growth in a world of scare resources, and the fact that the rich need a motivated working class.

[thaibeachlovers]

With 300-500 million dollars being withdrawn daily from banks by worried depositors,

how long before Greece will be bankrupt? and yet, the still want to keep their days

of wine, songs, siesta and working very little going on for ever,

with huge unemployment, despair and hopelessness every where how long will they last?

somehow, Greece assume that the world owe it some kind or debt of gratitude

for just being Greece, and that the EU will not let it fold, time will tell......

If ever a country deserved to go bankrupt it would be Greece. Impossible to feel sorry for them.

I hope the EU doesn't fold at the last minute just to keep the losers in the EU.

[Anthony5]

With 300-500 million dollars being withdrawn daily from banks by worried depositors,

how long before Greece will be bankrupt? and yet, the still want to keep their days

of wine, songs, siesta and working very little going on for ever,

with huge unemployment, despair and hopelessness every where how long will they last?

somehow, Greece assume that the world owe it some kind or debt of gratitude

for just being Greece, and that the EU will not let it fold, time will tell......

If ever a country deserved to go bankrupt it would be Greece. Impossible to feel sorry for them.

I hope the EU doesn't fold at the last minute just to keep the losers in the EU.

I have such a feeling that your prayers will not be honored.

[thaibeachlovers]

See, cybernetics (the art of governance) works when it comes to bank runs.

I'm quite confident they'll find a solution which allows both sides to keep face - maybe by redefintions, maybe we get another new word in the political dictionary.

The main problems remain: The logical impossibility of exponential economic growth in a world of scare resources, and the fact that the rich need a motivated working class.

Given the recent development of affordable robots that can learn on the job, and can do the work of the ignorant and uneducated on assembly lines, I wonder just what is to happen once the factory owners no longer need any low tech workers?

For starters, just how much do they think they can sell if there are no customers with money as they are all unemployed? There is a limit as to how much the rich can buy, given there are less of them than the great mass of lower class people that presently buy stuff.

If governments don't bite the bullet soon, events will overtake them. Technology does not wait for pollies to wake up.

[Anthony5]

Looks like Mr Tsipras gonna sign an agreement on Monday which he has no intention to keep, so all European citizen will be in bigger depth because of this gangster.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/greece-stumbling-to-euro-exit-as-talks-end-in-frustration-ib3d3x9x?cmpid=yhoo

“Tsipras issued a dovish statement this morning, indicating that he will blink and come to an agreement,” said Miranda Xafa, a former Greek representative to the IMF who now runs a consultancy in Athens. “The Greek premier overplayed his hand, believing that Greece is systemic and therefore creditors would accept his demands for fear of contagion.”

[micmichd]

Letting robots work instead of humans may be possible for industrial jobs, maybe even for some service jobs. Doubtful for personal services and craftsmanship.

Technological development is far more advanced than you are aware, and it hits the white collar jobs (ie the middle class). IT is everywhere, including decision-making. Consequently, the middle class people have the biggest increase in unemployment.

They (like you) will soon run out of money and not be able to buy anything, so why keep them alive?

In a completely computerized society the computers might decide that they don't need the rich people anymore because they have only money, while the computers rather need electric power. So, why keep the rich people alive?

You could have a Marxist's answer to your suggestions if you want, but I'm quite sure you wouldn't accept it. Hopefully you accept abstract logic - cold machine logic.

Here's the good news: There are logical limits in computer logic and programming.

Edited June 19, 2015 by micmichd

[thaibeachlovers]

Letting robots work instead of humans may be possible for industrial jobs, maybe even for some service jobs. Doubtful for personal services and craftsmanship.

Technological development is far more advanced than you are aware, and it hits the white collar jobs (ie the middle class). IT is everywhere, including decision-making. Consequently, the middle class people have the biggest increase in unemployment.

They (like you) will soon run out of money and not be able to buy anything, so why keep them alive?

They (like you) will soon run out of money and not be able to buy anything, so why keep them alive?

I'm sure that cleverer minds than mine or yours are working on a solution as I write this.

Never underestimate the devious nature of the really rich. They are already working on how to extend their lives and have most of the money and power.

[Anthony5]

Anyone is still in doubt that the Greek criminals will get away with ?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece-gets-temporary-lifeline-turns-153712869.html

Greece gets temporary lifeline, turns hope to new summit Greece gets temporary lifeline for banks to cope with deposit drain amid bailout impasse

As a result, the European Central Bank's governing council decided to provide more emergency credit for Greece's banks to help them cope with the situation.

[Crossy]

An off-topic post has been removed

[robblok]

Looks like Mr Tsipras gonna sign an agreement on Monday which he has no intention to keep, so all European citizen will be in bigger depth because of this gangster.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/greece-stumbling-to-euro-exit-as-talks-end-in-frustration-ib3d3x9x?cmpid=yhoo

“Tsipras issued a dovish statement this morning, indicating that he will blink and come to an agreement,” said Miranda Xafa, a former Greek representative to the IMF who now runs a consultancy in Athens. “The Greek premier overplayed his hand, believing that Greece is systemic and therefore creditors would accept his demands for fear of contagion.”

I don't see the part that you quoted in the article.. did they change it.. seems here the Greeks still don't want to cave in.

[micmichd]

"Gangster"?

Please don't insult the elected Greek PM.

He turns out to be the only honest man among these bunch of opportunistic unpoliticians (Angela Merkel & Co) He was elected to save Greek people from starvation, and he does his job.

Maybe people in European countries would have been off better with politicians like Mr Tsipras. If you think you get a reward from Big Money and their technocrats for your obedience, then keep on dreaming. Don't get shocked when you wake up and find out that all your money was already spent a long time ago.

[stevenl]

"Gangster"?

Please don't insult the elected Greek PM.

He turns out to be the only honest man among these bunch of opportunistic unpoliticians (Angela Merkel & Co) He was elected to save Greek people from starvation, and he does his job.

Maybe people in European countries would have been off better with politicians like Mr Tsipras. If you think you get a reward from Big Money and their technocrats for your obedience, then keep on dreaming. Don't get shocked when you wake up and find out that all your money was already spent a long time ago.

It has, on Greece.