Seminar: BKK is sinking at 10 mm/year with the worst subsidence in Ramkhamhaeng area

[FritsSikkink]

Is Singapore similar?

As i understand it, on of the main problems in BKK is the LACK of water...the p-lace is built on a delta - swampy flatlands.......but the increased drainage caused by the canalisation of the river channels drains the surrounding land causing it to sink.

This I believe is only one of several factors that threaten Bangkok's survival at a average of 1.3 metres above sea level?

The Dutch of course are experts at living below sea level, but Bangkok is huge - bigger than any city in the Netherlands.

half of the Netherlands is below sealevel, an area bigger the Bangkok

No - about 25% of the country is below sea level and 20% of the population....the population of the Netherlands is about 17 million so 20% of that is LESS than greater Bangkok. (about 7 million)

The Netherlands have been "claiming" land below sea level for hundreds of years - bit by bit.....the idea of doing something like this is Bangkok over a short period of time is a whole different ball game....both in terms of area and population numbers.

i am talking about an area bigger then Bangkok not the population

firstly you stated that half of the Netherlands were below sea level - that is incorrect.

Then I pointed out that to claim this amount of land the Dutch took centuries - since the 15 hundreds mainly. I also pointed out that Bangkok is bigger than ay city in Netherlands.

What are you trying to say?

Basically it seems your premises are incorrect and your conclusions obscure.

get a life

[Guest]

Is there something wrong with saying 1 centimeter? Why not 10000μm?

Mathematically 1 cm can be anything between 0,5 and 1,5 cm.

10mm (1.0 cm) can be anything between 9.5 and 10.5 mm

Or look at it in this way: 1.0 cm is more accurate than 1 cm

Excuse me?

Now numbers do not have absolute value?

Can you please loan me $100,000 ?

I will be happy to give you back somewhere between 0 and 200,000.

Think "$1"

[F4UCorsair]

in a few years TAT can come up with: the VENICE of the EAST

In the past Bangkok was known as the Venice of the East because of the multidinious klongs, many of which have now been filled

filled, canalised or simply covered over..........an eco-disaster and a tourist attraction lost....

True, but I think the flooding risk was so great that at least some of the filling was necessary. It was easier, and a LOT cheaper, to fill klongs than to build concrete walls along every klong as has been done along the Chao Phraya. There will be, and have been, plenty of arguments against filling the klongs, but it's been done, and won't be undone. I guess movement by boat was far easier than surface transport a century ago, and now many of the old klong routes are roads.

[cumgranosalum]

[cumgranosalum]

Description of Bangkok Clay

"The soft Bangkok clay has been well known for high water content, low shear strength, and high compressibility, to geotechnical engineers for several decades. For constructing highway embankments on soft Bangkok clay, the main geotechnical concerns are excess settlement and potential stability failure. "

[sydneyjed]

When I first arrived in Bangkok October of 1982 they were saying the same thing...and here we are some thirty odd years later!

Jakarta is predicted to sink first they reckon if they don't act soon!

[cumgranosalum]

When I first arrived in Bangkok October of 1982 they were saying the same thing...and here we are some thirty odd years later!

Jakarta is predicted to sink first they reckon if they don't act soon!

Yes, i think we all know that. what some don't realise is how imperceptibly slow it can seem...yet the symptoms are there - sink holes and subsidence and of course increased severity of flooding.....

People are not suggesting that all of a sudden we'll wake up to find out houses permanently under 3 ft of water.

they are saying that we should be taking steps to prepare for and mitigate the effects of this.

we can take steps - regulate building size and water consumption and handling, then there is the possibility of some Dutch-style sea level land claiming projects.

all of this involves forward urban planning, which unfortunately does not fit in with the general culture of graft and nepotism within Thai authorities.

[bangon04]

in a few years TAT can come up with: the VENICE of the EAST

In the past Bangkok was known as the Venice of the East because of the multidinious klongs, many of which have now been filled

filled, canalised or simply covered over..........an eco-disaster and a tourist attraction lost....

True, but I think the flooding risk was so great that at least some of the filling was necessary. It was easier, and a LOT cheaper, to fill klongs than to build concrete walls along every klong as has been done along the Chao Phraya. There will be, and have been, plenty of arguments against filling the klongs, but it's been done, and won't be undone. I guess movement by boat was far easier than surface transport a century ago, and now many of the old klong routes are roads.

So filling in the Khlongs has improved Bangkok transportation, improved Bangkok water drainage, and improved Bangkok's appearance? It hasn't helped with the rubbish disposal, as they have fewer places to throw their sewerage into....

[cumgranosalum]

In the past Bangkok was known as the Venice of the East because of the multidinious klongs, many of which have now been filled

filled, canalised or simply covered over..........an eco-disaster and a tourist attraction lost....

True, but I think the flooding risk was so great that at least some of the filling was necessary. It was easier, and a LOT cheaper, to fill klongs than to build concrete walls along every klong as has been done along the Chao Phraya. There will be, and have been, plenty of arguments against filling the klongs, but it's been done, and won't be undone. I guess movement by boat was far easier than surface transport a century ago, and now many of the old klong routes are roads.

So filling in the Khlongs has improved Bangkok transportation, improved Bangkok water drainage, and improved Bangkok's appearance? It hasn't helped with the rubbish disposal, as they have fewer places to throw their sewerage into....

You're making a few assumptions here.

"improved the drainage"? - No it is draining the aquifer - water that maintains the level of the city.

You also seem to be confusing sewerage with drainage.

i think it's also fairly obvious that water management in bkk is pretty much disastrous.

firstly they are draining the ground water and secondly they can't handle the resulting flooding.

Rubbish disposal is something usually organised by local authorities - which as above Bkk seem reluctant to do, but it only has an after fect when there is flooding - it isn't a direct result of the sinking city.

"Improved appearance"? - Well do you think Venice's appearance would be improved if they removed the canals?

Edited June 21, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Easy to see why.

They never pack and let the layer of sand settle before building.

Not what's happening here

[DLang]

Isn't there is something about this that somehow sums up the whole of current overall situation in Thailand?

We're idiots. Mai pen rai.

?

[DLang]

Easy to see why.

They never pack and let the layer of sand settle before building.

Not what's happening here

You almost got the joke.

Well done to you.

[cumgranosalum]

Easy to see why.

They never pack and let the layer of sand settle before building.

Not what's happening here

You almost got the joke.

Well done to you.

All I see is someone who doesn't understand the geology of Bangkok and now appears to be trying to back away from their statement

[cumgranosalum]

Isn't there is something about this that somehow sums up the whole of current overall situation in Thailand?

We're idiots. Mai pen rai.

?

no! - you really don't seem to understand Thailand very well.

[DLang]

Easy to see why.

They never pack and let the layer of sand settle before building.

Not what's happening here

You almost got the joke.

Well done to you.

All I see is someone who doesn't understand the geology of Bangkok and now appears to be trying to back away from their statement

Oh I'm sure that's all you see.

Hence, why you only almost got the joke.

Never mind lad. Back to Khao San and your lonely planet guidebook.

Enjoy your holiday.

[cumgranosalum]

Not what's happening here

he layer of sand settle before building.

You almost got the joke.

Well done to you.

All I see is someone who doesn't understand the geology of Bangkok and now appears to be trying to back away from their statement

Oh I'm sure that's all you see.

Hence, why you only almost got the joke.

Never mind lad. Back to Khao San and your lonely planet guidebook.

Enjoy your holiday.

all your comments succeed in doing is to compound the impression that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Edited June 22, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[DLang]

That's your impression because you don't even know what I am talking about. I'll give a hint, it isn't the geology of Bangkok!

Enjoy your holiday.

[h90]

Is there something wrong with saying 1 centimeter? Why not 10000μm?

1 cm doesn't sound much, but if we are sinking 1.000.000 nm per year we should really panic.....

[h90]

It is the fault of these overweight falangs, they are pressing Bangkok down.

The should be charged 100 Baht per day in Bangkok.

[DLang]

It is the fault of these overweight falangs, they are pressing Bangkok down.

Don't forget all the illegal Khmer and Burmese on the building sites.

By combined weight, they almost weigh more than a single American.

[coulson]

Thats just complete rubbish

[h90]

It is the fault of these overweight falangs, they are pressing Bangkok down.

Don't forget all the illegal Khmer and Burmese on the building sites.

By combined weight, they almost weigh more than a single American.

yes put them all in jail.....

[cumgranosalum]

That's your impression because you don't even know what I am talking about. I'll give a hint, it isn't the geology of Bangkok!

Enjoy your holiday.

it's like watching a sheep trying to extricate itself from a hedge.....check the OP - it's about Bangkok sinking....

[cumgranosalum]

Thats just complete rubbish

Ok, fair enough - now please explain why....

[coulson]

Thats just complete rubbish

Ok, fair enough - now please explain why....

Apologies, not the concept, or the illustration (its actually very pretty) despite being a butchered case study originating from another City........Rainfall recharge is not slow, this is a City that floods regularly, and the Bedrock recharge is not so relevant as it is a flat plain.

I was really referring to the figures. A rate of 50-100mm per year is just not credible, where is the proof of that? Tall Buildings, with the exception of deep piled skyscrapers, would literally be skewed to the eye.

[jcisco]

Thats just complete rubbish

Ok, fair enough - now please explain why....

I'm no structural or civil engineer but in the op it's mentioned skyscrapers weight on this clay layer. Surely large buildings like skyscrapers though very lightweight would have piles through to bedrock or otherwise constructed on a floating foundation sort of design.

How far is bedrock below Bangkok in general, anyone got any idea?

[coulson]

I'm no structural or civil engineer but in the op it's mentioned skyscrapers weight on this clay layer. Surely large buildings like skyscrapers though very lightweight would have piles through to bedrock or otherwise constructed on a floating foundation sort of design.

How far is bedrock below Bangkok in general, anyone got any idea?

[jcisco]

Not sure if u have seen this https://cablegatesearch.wikileaks.org/cable.php?id=10BANGKOK454

[DLang]

That's your impression because you don't even know what I am talking about. I'll give a hint, it isn't the geology of Bangkok!

Enjoy your holiday.

it's like watching a sheep trying to extricate itself from a hedge.....check the OP - it's about Bangkok sinking....

There really is no help for you.