Electric showers.. are they all crap or do some of them actually work properly?

[Keesters]

I have a National brand multi-point heater in my bathroom. Now 28 years old and used every day. Never broke down EVER. It was made in Japan.

I have a Fujika for the kitchen sink. Installed 10 years ago. Broke down after 3 months minimal usage, got it fixed. Broke down again soon after. Got it fixed again. Broke down again. Gave up. It was made in Thailand.

The Fujika broke down ? made in Thailand or Japan ? just wondering ...

also, I believe it's best to make sure the small inside tank is copper and not nylon or plastic as most are.

Fujika ... It was made in Thailand.

The answer to your question was in my original post.

[Pib]

I've got two identical Fagor 6000W heaters....both 7 years old....did have to have an intermittent flow switch replaced in one at the approx the 2 year point but that was done under warranty.

They could scald you and put you in the hospital with 3d degree burns unless you balance the hot and cold water flow. The Fagor heater I have has no external controls....it only has a simple on or off LED...none of this spaceship control panels like you see on a lot of heaters....it has it's input water water line where cold water comes in and and then its output hot water line feeds into my the hot water side of my water tap (just the design of my shower)....your hot and cold water is controlled by you adjusting the hot and cold water taps on the wall...when you turn on your hot water tap a flow control value in the heater senses water flow and the heater turns itself on. The heaters are mounted at the very top of the shower wall.

Keep in mind the heating tubes within these small heaters we are talking about are only 1/4 or 1/8 inch in diameter and not long in total length which really cuts down on the water flow through them due to the small diameter so you need to have good pressure to get some good volume out of them.

But if the flow is too fast/pressure is too high the water is not in the heating elements long enough to get good and warm/hot...and if the flow is too low you may end up turning on too much cold water to get a stronger shower but at the same time too much cold water is cooling down your hot water too much. How the cold and hot water mix occurs will vary depending on the design/plumbing of your shower but water pressure and flow can have a big impact. Sounds like the OP has just been experiencing cases of low water pressure and/or small heaters like 3,500W.

I live in Bangkok and even in the winter time sometimes (i.e., Dec-Jan) I'm glad I've got 6000W heaters because a 3,500W heaters just would not hack it unless maybe turned down the water flow quite a bit which reduces the shower strength...the force of the water hitting the dirty body...and for some people unless the water force is almost beating them down to the shower floor they are not happy.

[sappersrest]

hi everyone it beats me why in Thailand they don't use solar panels ,with the amount of sun we have ,free hot water

They are about here in Chiang Mai about 50k depending on size etc.

[Pib]

hi everyone it beats me why in Thailand they don't use solar panels ,with the amount of sun we have ,free hot water

Costs....not cheap to install. Even in western countries it's not cheap and many western countries have to offer big tax breaks to motivate folks and make the payback time reasonable.

Another factor is cost of electricity in a country....if from a country where electricity costs are high (usually due to govt taxes) and you have plenty of sun for most of the year then that's a good motivation. But electricity prices in Thailand are not high compared to most other countries.

And of course combine high cost to install solar panels with a low income country such as Thailand (throw in no tax incentives) and you have the right combination for low adoption of solar panels. In my Bangkok moobaan of approx 750 homes in the Bt5M to Bt50M range (most are around Bt7-12M) I've only seen one home with solar panels...and it's only a couple of panels probably just for a water heater.

[trogers]

Small condo units may have only one bathroom with a shower (no tub), thus needing only an electric shower heater.

Choose a heater with variable power setting from 3.5 to 4.5 Kw to suit cold spells during end of the year.

[RigPig]

I have 2 Panasonic both great on local water main pressure Clean the inline filter once a year never cleaned the head no idea on KW

Yes I am pretty sure from playing around that the pressure is critical, you can buy units for low pressure installations and you will probably don´t have in line filters in them. The matrix (radiator) that heats the water has very fine orifices and (hence the filters) this restriction alone is enough to cause the pressure to fluctuate. I don´t like the ones with the attached shower rose, the ones they mount inside the shower recess. Water and electricity.......

They do have a flow switch in them so the water is flowing over the element.

I personnally wouldn´t rely too much on the in built ELCB to save my life!!!

[Phaeton]

Just wanted to add that after airBnBing several condos in Bkk, I really like these electric units, as it give you control over what is happening. I am presently staying in a pretty upscale condo near the Peninsula hotel. First I was in one condo, then switched to this one in the same building, as it was a bit cheaper. What I wanted to tell you is that both condos have had a problem with controlling water temperature to the shower. Which means a lot of wasted water and wasted time, jumping in and out of cold/scalding water. This place the condo building supplies the hot and cold water, from some central heater. So while the shower may be more aesthetically pleasing, with no electric heater, it doesn't work very well.

So I think I would rather the ability to swap out something if I wasn't happy with it, instead of living for years with whatever the condo building supplies.

[stament]

Interesting post, I was told yesterday that in the countryside where water is generally pumped from underground you need an ore powerful shower as the water is colder than in the City.  The sales guy recommended 4500 minimum for the countryside and said a 3500w would suffice for city folk in Chiang Mai.

 

 

[impulse]

On 6/23/2015 at 2:42 PM, Phaeton said:

So while the shower may be more aesthetically pleasing, with no electric heater, it doesn't work very well.

So I think I would rather the ability to swap out something if I wasn't happy with it, instead of living for years with whatever the condo building supplies.

 

I had an apartment in China where the rate charged for hot water was significantly higher than the rate charged for cold water.  It was geothermal and poorly designed so it took 10-15 minutes to get genuinely hot water- longer in winter, and I got charged for hot water the whole time.  The electric on-demand heater I installed paid itself out in a couple of months.

 

In answer to the OP:  I've been pleased with the on-demand shower water heaters in every long term lodging I've had in Asia- after getting them dialed in.  Some of the hotel units I've experienced were a little less than useless.

[Pdaz]

Yes, they are all crap. A solar water heater ( solahart or similar )  3/4" OD pipe and a decent pump is really the only way to get a great hot shower with plenty of flow.  There aren't any decent cost effective alternatives. A comprable 300 litre electric water heater would be far  more expensive in the long run. Plus less reliable and more prone to problems. Both my properties here have had solar heaters fitted. The first was a "no name" Thai brand, 10 yrs and still going strong. Latest one is an Aussie Solahart, 3 yrs no issues. About 90k delivered and fitted. Super-Hot water at any time of day for the whole house (4 bathrooms and kitchen) The deluge of water available from the 350mm Hans Grohe "rain" showerhead in the master en-suite is brilliant.

 

Sounds pricey, but not when compared to the cost of five heat at point electric heaters or a central heated tank. 

Even then you are still going to have crappy flow..

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Pdaz

[KhunBENQ]

Some water heater threads in the DIY, some in Electrical.

Here it's about lack of water pressure and/or electrical power.

 

Moved to the Electrical forum.
 

[KhunBENQ]

On 22.6.2015 at 9:57 AM, Pib said:

I live in Bangkok and even in the winter time sometimes (i.e., Dec-Jan) I'm glad I've got 6000W heaters because a 3,500W heaters just would not hack it unless maybe turned down the water flow quite a bit which reduces the shower strength..

 

And just think about the "extreme cold" we have in the northeast around new year.

When there is 13 C in the morning nobody cares for an early shower with the 3.5 kW model

As already written: insufficient water pressure is a separate issue.

We have tank and pump, during the coldest days need to reduce water flow with the valve at the heater.

[Gary A]

Just a little information;

 

I live upcountry where the winters can get pretty cold. I had a 5,300 watt off brand shower heater. It got a little glitchy and would not warm the water enough when it was cold outside. I replaced it with a 4,500 watt Hitachi. That's the biggest the local store had. I was amazed that even during the coldest days I never had to set the temperature above the 3/4 mark. Unfortunately it died after about three years. I expected it to last longer than that. I wanted no off brand unit so I replaced the Hitachi with a 4,500 watt Sharp. I was disappointed that it will not heat the water enough even when turned to maximum. I have to limit the water going in for a comfortable shower. There is a big difference between heaters of the same wattage. I should have bought another Hitachi.

[stament]

Went with the Panasonic 3500 digital option in the end. Proof will be in the showering in Jan once installed in our place in the village. 

[CGW]

On 12/9/2016 at 8:29 AM, stament said:

Interesting post, I was told yesterday that in the countryside where water is generally pumped from underground you need an ore powerful shower as the water is colder than in the City.  The sales guy recommended 4500 minimum for the countryside and said a 3500w would suffice for city folk in Chiang Mai.

 

 

I lived in Pattaya for 15 years and never had any problems with hot water, up here in the wilds of Isaan in the depths of winter!!! different story, I have an 8,000w unit for the main shower, when it cools off and the water is cold you have to choke the water flow right back to get a "hot" shower. The water is stored in a stainless tank which is painted black to help, I'm sure I read somewhere that these units are only designed to raise the water temperature by 10c?

[KittenKong]

On 13/12/2016 at 7:10 PM, CGW said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that these units are only designed to raise the water temperature by 10c?

 

"Instant" water heaters are quite common in Europe where the temperature difference needed could easily be 40 degrees or more. They seem to work OK there.

[Jing Joe]

Have a 3.5 kW Sharp shower heater I bought back from LOS to Oz I was going to use when there was about 4+ days of no solar hot water here, but even with an earth leakage circuit breaker in the house and for overcautious safety reasons I bought a  Chinese gas heater instead for about $AUD 60.

(I'm sure the ELCB in the Sharp  unit could be trusted so long as the integrity of the earth wire to was ok)

This suggestion might go well for simpler applications e.g. up country,  and  it could easily run from a gas bottle nearby with a flexible hose . 

Must be careful about the carbon monoxide emissions, but in 8 seconds it provides a lovely  pre-set temperature even from very low pressure head. e.g 8 PSI.

 

[lopburi3]

Gas is a step back rather than forward - there used to be many deaths here in Thailand when they were being used 3 decades ago - the shift to electric has been great IMHO.  Not only was gas a danger for breathing and fire it was almost always too hot so water was scalding at lowest setting if you did not manually block burners.  You normally do not need much of a temperature rise here in Thailand.  Keep the gas for cooking.

 

The ELCB does not require any ground wire to operate - it works from the difference between neutral and live when you or something else becomes the alternate path to ground and an imbalance is sensed.   

[Jing Joe]

On 14/02/2017 at 8:36 PM, lopburi3 said:

Gas is a step back rather than forward - there used to be many deaths here in Thailand when they were being used 3 decades ago - the shift to electric has been great IMHO.  Not only was gas a danger for breathing and fire it was almost always too hot so water was scalding at lowest setting if you did not manually block burners.  You normally do not need much of a temperature rise here in Thailand.  Keep the gas for cooking.

 

The ELCB does not require any ground wire to operate - it works from the difference between neutral and live when you or something else becomes the alternate path to ground and an imbalance is sensed.   

Yes you are right about the function of an ELCB and I should have known better.     My lapse in thinking was more oriented towards having the hot water heater earthed in case there was an element fault or other cct fault causing a safer earth-wire unbalance rather than earthing via the person showering,  Ouch.

Horses for courses re using gas. e.g. limited power.  That reason alone for me was a great step forward and like I said taking essential CO precautions.  My gas shower heater is fully controllable, auto ignition, select switch for one or two burners. Extremely tolerant to low water pressure not like the needs of the electric. They work like a charm and some even have digital temperature readouts.   Haven't researched fully but there are some  indoor burners with CO reduction techniques.    Maybe you are comparing a Merc. with horse and cart?      Times have really changed re gas water heaters.  Even cooking with gas in enclosed spaces needs precautions.

 

[lopburi3]

Yes they may have been improvements in the burners over the years but they do not seem popular here in Thailand where almost everyone has gas for cooking so suspect there is a reason for that.  The models I used were imported from Japan where it does get cold so likely worked well there but had no way to limit burner used (I had to resort to blocking with toothpicks most of the year).   And agree the electric units do need to have a ground wire (and are so noted) to help trip breaker in case of fault (even with ELCB speed you would much prefer not to be the trip source).   The big issue with gas here is most bathrooms are open window but in cold season many covered them forgetting the heater issue.  But gas as you mention has issues - even for cooking - and many people still do not use safety (leak stop) regulators and they cost very little more than those without.  We keep our gas cooking outside (as you need good airflow for the peppers).    

[Jing Joe]

23 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Yes they may have been improvements in the burners over the years but they do not seem popular here in Thailand where almost everyone has gas for cooking so suspect there is a reason for that.  The models I used were imported from Japan where it does get cold so likely worked well there but had no way to limit burner used (I had to resort to blocking with toothpicks most of the year).   And agree the electric units do need to have a ground wire (and are so noted) to help trip breaker in case of fault (even with ELCB speed you would much prefer not to be the trip source).   The big issue with gas here is most bathrooms are open window but in cold season many covered them forgetting the heater issue.  But gas as you mention has issues - even for cooking - and many people still do not use safety (leak stop) regulators and they cost very little more than those without.  We keep our gas cooking outside (as you need good airflow for the peppers).    

Not sure what a safety leak stop regulator is. ?? please help. 

I could imagine places right up-country with no power* would benefit from a modern cheap gas water heater and playing it safe i.e. mount it on the outside wall of house just outside shower room if possible and best under cover.    Drill hole through wall for heater output flow into a shower rose.

Once set, no need to go outside ** just turn on inside tap and 8 seconds later --  lovely warm water.

                                                     ** Winter /summer variations excepted.  

              *Been hearing about frequent blackouts up-country lately. too.

[lopburi3]

They normally look like this in basic version.