Confederate flag sets off debate in 2016 Republican class

[cantplay]

The birdbrain, blockhead rednecks think its the first half of the 19th century, not unlike the birdbrain, blockhead militants that join IS.

TIME WARP 2015. "Hey smarten up!." - wishful thinking.

Heres were the winners meet, blockhead central. The politically correct Klan

http://conservative-headlines.com/

Edited June 22, 2015 by cantplay

[sdanielmcev]

Sick, sick people, not many thankfully but very vocal on TV. Thankfully most expats and even many Americans have more than one working brain cell. Those that disagree with the article are haters and they cannot/will not see their own sickness. There is nothing hateful in the article, but the truth does hurt. As I predicted, the right would reject an expert with real knowledge because they can't accept the real facts or the truth.

I guess you failed reading comprehension. Did you even think to read it with an open mind? Or was your idea to only agree.?

[CMNightRider]

CMNightRider,

At the risk of yet another of my postings being deleted, may I inquire which God you believe in? I ask .. because you brought it up first.

Is it Jesus Christ, the Lord of Mercy, Forgiveness and Peace. Is it the Good Shepard who commanded his followers to turn the other cheek and love his fellow man? Is it he who healed the sick and stood to protect the weak, less fortunate and downtrodden?

Is your God the King of the Jews who fought against tyranny and slavery?

The one whose name is synonymous with mercy and forgiveness?

if so ... how do you reconcile the teachings of the Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, with your beliefs about guns and the countless graves filled via their use?

Would Jesus Christ be for ... or against ... the proliferation of guns?

Thank you in advance for your thoughtful reply. i am confident it will be food for thought and an "ah ha" moment for me. It really could be a one word answer ... For? ... or ... Against?

And before we "jump the gun" and delete this posting .. please go back a few postings to "....I forgot to mention, this small group of haters on Thai Visa hates God as well. Thanks for reminding me." (CMNightRider)

I'm surprised you would concern yourself with my belief in God. Since it seems so important to you and you asked, I believe in the God who created the universe and sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. Nine out of ten Americans share the same belief. Although, there are less liberals who tend to share this belief.

As far as your question, "would Jesus be for....or against....the proliferation of guns?" I have no idea. Why don't you hold on to that thought and ask him yourself when you meet him.

One poster thinks we are organisms dropped off here by aliens. Another poster compared God with Santa. I have no idea what your beliefs are nor do I care.

All of this has nothing to do with the Confederate flag. Why is it so difficult for you to just share your opinion about the current topic and not to go off on God, Jesus, and guns?

[Gecko123]

The fact that the Confederate flag is embraced by so many American white supremacy groups, completely undercuts the argument that this symbol benignly honors Southern ancestry and history.

Interesting blog on this subject:

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/message-claim-confederate-flag-represents-heritage/

[klikster]

The "tight thing" for a small town in Texas might not be the "right thing" for a Brit located in Thailand.

Especially if she is a "Red".

[NeverSure]

I don't think it's OK to fly a swastika across the street from a synagogue. If someone does that's up to him.

Acts are different from speech if the act is violence. "Sticks and stones" and all of that. Violent actions are illegal.

It's too easy to defend someones right to say something you agree with. Where the rubber meets the road on free speech is "are you willing to defend someone's right to say something you disagree with"? If you aren't you don't believe in free speech.

In 1992 the US Supreme court ruled strongly that a juvenile boy was within his rights to burn a cross (KKK symbol) on his family lawn across the street from some new neighbors who were black. Link What he did was ugly but I can't expect anyone to defend my liberties if I don't defend theirs, especially when I disagree.

It's the left wing "tolerance" people who are so intolerant but I'd never get them to admit it. They want tolerance of them. They want tolerance of things they agree with to the exclusion of things they disagree with.

I take the non-pointed part of what you're saying, and agree in principle. Voltaire said as much.

But there is a flaw in the idea; Sticks and stones inflict visible harm, but verbal (or symbolic, as in the case at hand) offense may very well hurt more. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect that is profound.

The very fact that you disagree with a swastika across the street from a synagogue means that at some level you empathise and know it offends.

One of our esteemed members often cites how "mental trauma" is harmful and is worthy of killing those that inflict the mental trauma in a different scenario. I could cite numerous legal precedents where inflicting mental anguish is deemed a crime and punishable. Society is slowly accepting that it's not just sticks and stones that hurt. Words hurt. Symbols hurt. Words have been know to send an offended person to suicide...and that's not isolated cases, either. Words can certainly harm.

Society has deemed that physical expression must be limited to the point where it draws short of harming a person.

Symbols can hurt too. As you know in the swastika scenario. Why is that hurt trumped by the hurter's right to freedom of expression?

"Society has deemed that physical expression must be limited to the point where it draws short of harming a person.

Symbols can hurt too. As you know in the swastika scenario. Why is that hurt trumped by the hurter's right to freedom of expression?"

You can actually choose whether to be upset by words. Yes you can. Stick and stones. You can't choose whether physical injury will hurt. Instigating violence is illegal. Stating an opinion isn't.

How many time have I heard liberals say "You can't legislate morality"? They do want a lot of legislation for things they disagree with, but want laws repealed if they curtail what they believe in.

I hate the flying of that Confederate flag because it used to be a symbol of racism. I don't believe it is now, but that's just me. I would far more hate to see the Constitutional guarantee of free speech begin to erode because that's a slippery slope we don't want to start down.

My stance isn't really about that flag which I think should come down voluntarily and for sure. My stance is about the freedom to do something I disagree with so that another day I can do something someone else disagrees with. It's about freedom even when it's disagreeable. That's what being free is.

Edited June 23, 2015 by NeverSure

[Guest]

CMNightRider,

At the risk of yet another of my postings being deleted, may I inquire which God you believe in? I ask .. because you brought it up first.

Is it Jesus Christ, the Lord of Mercy, Forgiveness and Peace. Is it the Good Shepard who commanded his followers to turn the other cheek and love his fellow man? Is it he who healed the sick and stood to protect the weak, less fortunate and downtrodden?

Is your God the King of the Jews who fought against tyranny and slavery?

The one whose name is synonymous with mercy and forgiveness?

if so ... how do you reconcile the teachings of the Lord, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, with your beliefs about guns and the countless graves filled via their use?

Would Jesus Christ be for ... or against ... the proliferation of guns?

Thank you in advance for your thoughtful reply. i am confident it will be food for thought and an "ah ha" moment for me. It really could be a one word answer ... For? ... or ... Against?

And before we "jump the gun" and delete this posting .. please go back a few postings to "....I forgot to mention, this small group of haters on Thai Visa hates God as well. Thanks for reminding me." (CMNightRider)

I'm surprised you would concern yourself with my belief in God. Since it seems so important to you and you asked, I believe in the God who created the universe and sent Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. Nine out of ten Americans share the same belief. Although, there are less liberals who tend to share this belief.

As far as your question, "would Jesus be for....or against....the proliferation of guns?" I have no idea. Why don't you hold on to that thought and ask him yourself when you meet him.

One poster thinks we are organisms dropped off here by aliens. Another poster compared God with Santa. I have no idea what your beliefs are nor do I care.

All of this has nothing to do with the Confederate flag. Why is it so difficult for you to just share your opinion about the current topic and not to go off on God, Jesus, and guns?

I very much appreciate your reply that is, as always, well written and in a civil tone.

It is not lost on me, and possibly other readers for your postings, your dexterity in jumping from one side of the fence to the other when it serves your purpose and allows you to skirt an issue.

When you find yourself in a position where a direct question is asked .. you simply go "Moderator" and whine that "the topic is "X"" so ... no .. "no comment."

However sir, it is you, who needs to go back a few postings to "....I forgot to mention, this small group of haters on Thai Visa hates God as well. Thanks for reminding me." (CMNightRider)

You have become a fixture on Thai Visa as a strong and articulate advocate of American Gun "rights" , anti liberal views, and pro Christian values.

My question, as you well know, was the classic ... where those who preach the Word of their Lord, Jesus Christ, seem to cherry pick exactly what part of his message to heed, and which portions to discard.

They seem to see the Cross as a catch all bucket that they can dip any uncomfortable issue in, pull it out, and tell others to conform to the shade it has been dyed, or burn in hell.

You are a good writer, ans would make an excellent politician, since your ability to dodge a question is amazing.

I feel that your "non answer" .. is and answer, and the answer I infer though your non comment is that ... no .. you can not reconcile the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth against a conservative ideology that supports more violence, and the symbolism of bigotry that the Confederate Flag is, in fact.

I wrote once, but so many of my postings to you get deleted, and even solicited a warning .. that it is disingenuous to not recognize the Confederate Flag for what it is, and how it affects people.

It is like giving someone the finger, and them saying, "Huh? Wha? The Finger? No no, that is just my "Your number one, have a nice day salute."

I do appreciate your postings, and from them I have learned much. The primary lesson was, "You nailed it, the chances you took to get the hell out of the USA were all worth it. To not be immersed in this rhetoric 24/7, and just wade in occasionally and interface and exchange ideas with folks like you .. is really enough."

God Bless the Red, White and Blue, and Long Live the King.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

The tide is changing ... Good news.

[Scott]

Let's please try to stick to the topic.

[Berkshire]

I don't think it's OK to fly a swastika across the street from a synagogue. If someone does that's up to him.

Acts are different from speech if the act is violence. "Sticks and stones" and all of that. Violent actions are illegal.

It's too easy to defend someones right to say something you agree with. Where the rubber meets the road on free speech is "are you willing to defend someone's right to say something you disagree with"? If you aren't you don't believe in free speech.

In 1992 the US Supreme court ruled strongly that a juvenile boy was within his rights to burn a cross (KKK symbol) on his family lawn across the street from some new neighbors who were black. Link What he did was ugly but I can't expect anyone to defend my liberties if I don't defend theirs, especially when I disagree.

It's the left wing "tolerance" people who are so intolerant but I'd never get them to admit it. They want tolerance of them. They want tolerance of things they agree with to the exclusion of things they disagree with.

I take the non-pointed part of what you're saying, and agree in principle. Voltaire said as much.

But there is a flaw in the idea; Sticks and stones inflict visible harm, but verbal (or symbolic, as in the case at hand) offense may very well hurt more. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect that is profound.

The very fact that you disagree with a swastika across the street from a synagogue means that at some level you empathise and know it offends.

One of our esteemed members often cites how "mental trauma" is harmful and is worthy of killing those that inflict the mental trauma in a different scenario. I could cite numerous legal precedents where inflicting mental anguish is deemed a crime and punishable. Society is slowly accepting that it's not just sticks and stones that hurt. Words hurt. Symbols hurt. Words have been know to send an offended person to suicide...and that's not isolated cases, either. Words can certainly harm.

Society has deemed that physical expression must be limited to the point where it draws short of harming a person.

Symbols can hurt too. As you know in the swastika scenario. Why is that hurt trumped by the hurter's right to freedom of expression?

I hate the flying of that Confederate flag because it used to be a symbol of racism. I don't believe it is now, but that's just me. I would far more hate to see the Constitutional guarantee of free speech begin to erode because that's a slippery slope we don't want to start down.

I'm really struck by this comment, that you don't think the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racism today. Every single article in the mainstream media that I've read on this subject has indicated that it is, which is to say everyone believes that it is. Racist organizations still use it. Even the killer Roof, who proudly waves that flag as he's burning the American flag. By the way, no one is suggesting that you or anyone else can't express yourself using the Confederate Flag. We're talking about the government (of SC) not only condoning it, but proudly displaying this symbol of bigotry on gov property. That's what this whole debate is about, not free speech.

[MaxYakov]

The fact that the Confederate flag is embraced by so many American white supremacy groups, completely undercuts the argument that this symbol benignly honors Southern ancestry and history.

Interesting blog on this subject:

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/message-claim-confederate-flag-represents-heritage/

I'll see your "I have A Message For Those Who Claim The Confederacy Flag Represents Their Heritage"

and raise you with: "The Fight Against Confederate Symbols Spreads" - The Atlantic, June 22, 2015

A War of the Flags escalates to a War of the Symbols.

Now where did I put that popcorn?

[Guest]

I don't think it's OK to fly a swastika across the street from a synagogue. If someone does that's up to him.

Acts are different from speech if the act is violence. "Sticks and stones" and all of that. Violent actions are illegal.

It's too easy to defend someones right to say something you agree with. Where the rubber meets the road on free speech is "are you willing to defend someone's right to say something you disagree with"? If you aren't you don't believe in free speech.

In 1992 the US Supreme court ruled strongly that a juvenile boy was within his rights to burn a cross (KKK symbol) on his family lawn across the street from some new neighbors who were black. Link What he did was ugly but I can't expect anyone to defend my liberties if I don't defend theirs, especially when I disagree.

It's the left wing "tolerance" people who are so intolerant but I'd never get them to admit it. They want tolerance of them. They want tolerance of things they agree with to the exclusion of things they disagree with.

I take the non-pointed part of what you're saying, and agree in principle. Voltaire said as much.

But there is a flaw in the idea; Sticks and stones inflict visible harm, but verbal (or symbolic, as in the case at hand) offense may very well hurt more. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect that is profound.

The very fact that you disagree with a swastika across the street from a synagogue means that at some level you empathise and know it offends.

One of our esteemed members often cites how "mental trauma" is harmful and is worthy of killing those that inflict the mental trauma in a different scenario. I could cite numerous legal precedents where inflicting mental anguish is deemed a crime and punishable. Society is slowly accepting that it's not just sticks and stones that hurt. Words hurt. Symbols hurt. Words have been know to send an offended person to suicide...and that's not isolated cases, either. Words can certainly harm.

Society has deemed that physical expression must be limited to the point where it draws short of harming a person.

Symbols can hurt too. As you know in the swastika scenario. Why is that hurt trumped by the hurter's right to freedom of expression?

I hate the flying of that Confederate flag because it used to be a symbol of racism. I don't believe it is now, but that's just me. I would far more hate to see the Constitutional guarantee of free speech begin to erode because that's a slippery slope we don't want to start down.

I'm really struck by this comment, that you don't think the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racism today. Every single article in the mainstream media that I've read on this subject has indicated that it is, which is to say everyone believes that it is. Racist organizations still use it. Even the killer Roof, who proudly waves that flag as he's burning the American flag. By the way, no one is suggesting that you or anyone else can't express yourself using the Confederate Flag. We're talking about the government (of SC) not only condoning it, but proudly displaying this symbol of bigotry on gov property. That's what this whole debate is about, not free speech.

Looks like we are finally closing the books on this ... Good thing, and none too soon!

[chuckd]

Only if two thirds of the SC Legislature agree with her recommendation.

The Legislature controls the issue, not the Governor.

[Guest]

Only if two thirds of the SC Legislature agree with her recommendation.

The Legislature controls the issue, not the Governor.

Thanks Chuckd, you are correct...

What was i thinking?

Oh I remember, since one third of the state is African American. it might be timely to get rid of this flag...but you know what? ... Your point is well made, the battle may have just begun ... now the Good Ol' Boys can rally 'round the flag WITHOUT their hoods on and score (white) voter points.

Yeeee ha "y'all ... its time for a good old American talking head marathon!

(Yawn)

[sgtsabai]

Yes, the legislature controls the issue but the teabag darling of a corporate governor has a lot of sway. Also by simple majority vote the legislature can repeal the law and then take down the symbol of hatred and racism by simple majority. In spite of the racists claiming the flag represent heritage it doesn't and I say that as one raised in the South. Perhaps you should read what this S. Carolinian has to say: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/20/1394980/-The-Hate-Flags-Are-Coming-Down?detail=email Also what this teacher of nineteenth-century American history at Boston College has to say: http://act.alternet.org/go/61934?t=7&akid=13233.85778.M3p3pc

[lostoday]

Yes, the legislature controls the issue but the teabag darling of a corporate governor has a lot of sway. Also by simple majority vote the legislature can repeal the law and then take down the symbol of hatred and racism by simple majority. In spite of the racists claiming the flag represent heritage it doesn't and I say that as one raised in the South. Perhaps you should read what this S. Carolinian has to say: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/20/1394980/-The-Hate-Flags-Are-Coming-Down?detail=email Also what this teacher of nineteenth-century American history at Boston College has to say: http://act.alternet.org/go/61934?t=7&akid=13233.85778.M3p3pc

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

[sgtsabai]

Not this time because I can't figure out what your point is. Robert E. Lee was an honorable man fighting for a dishonorable cause, although many if not most thought they were defending the South against the Yankees even though they never owned a slave in their lives. Kinda' like today's teabaggers in a sad way. A great general and tactician The display of the flag at his tomb, which I have visited along with most of the battlefields, is not the same as flying it over government property. http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/06/22/petition-mississippi-confederate-flag/29113157/?source=%5B%27CSAMedition%27%5D&via=%5B%27newsletter%27%5D http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/23/republican-who-kept-confederate-flag-flying-is-a-rebel-sympathizer.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/22/special-session-to-debate-confederate-flag.html

[lostoday]

Not this time because I can't figure out what your point is. Robert E. Lee was an honorable man fighting for a dishonorable cause, although many if not most thought they were defending the South against the Yankees even though they never owned a slave in their lives. Kinda' like today's teabaggers in a sad way. A great general and tactician The display of the flag at his tomb, which I have visited along with most of the battlefields, is not the same as flying it over government property. http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/06/22/petition-mississippi-confederate-flag/29113157/?source=%5B%27CSAMedition%27%5D&via=%5B%27newsletter%27%5D http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/23/republican-who-kept-confederate-flag-flying-is-a-rebel-sympathizer.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/22/special-session-to-debate-confederate-flag.html

Look at the flags in the background. You want to remove those too? That was my point. A flag is a flag is a flag.

Edited June 23, 2015 by lostoday

[sgtsabai]

I saw the flags, still what is your point? Let me try again, the flag display in his tomb is ok with me, it is the flag display on government, be it federal, state or local property that people are rightly upset about. His tomb is a museum, exactly where that flag belongs. A flag is a flag is a flag, NOT. That flag is a symbol of hate, racism and slavery and should never be displayed on any government property. Go fly it in your yard if you wish, good for the neighbors to know what kind of person you are.

[sgtsabai]

At least one from the right sees the light, at least one other doesn't: http://elink.thedailybeast.com/4e5568b3e018bee76c353db32qz5y.3em9/VYlxmkmO16sIPZ5SCf731 http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/06/rob_portman_josh_mandel_others_got_contributions_now_linked_to_racist_leader.html

[lostoday]

I saw the flags, still what is your point? Let me try again, the flag display in his tomb is ok with me, it is the flag display on government, be it federal, state or local property that people are rightly upset about. His tomb is a museum, exactly where that flag belongs. A flag is a flag is a flag, NOT. That flag is a symbol of hate, racism and slavery and should never be displayed on any government property. Go fly it in your yard if you wish, good for the neighbors to know what kind of person you are.

Do you know how many statues of Robert E Lee are on government property? Do you know how many graves of confederate soldiers are on government property?

Do you know how many historical exhibits of the Civil War and the Stars and Bars are on government property?

I have never met a person who has served in the Armed forces of the United States of America that does not respect the Confederate soldiers who died during the Civil War and also their battle flag (exception being the soldiers inside LBJ).

Edited June 23, 2015 by lostoday

[Mrjlh]

It's time for the "Confederate Flag" and all it's forms to be retired into a musuem where it belongs along with many other flags from the period of time. It represents a era of American history and that's it. It has many meanings to many different groups of people. In one case for some, it is a flag of pride for showing a defiance against the ruling govrnment. At the same time it can be consier a sysmbol of treason, hate, and racism. Several groups adopted it for their stance of out right racism.

South Carolina Governor today finally said enough is enough in so many words. She wants it removed from all government buildings in her state. It is now up her legislature to pass the law which will apply "only" to government buildings not private areas. She is hoping others follow suit. It will pass and I 'm sure there will be those unhappy about it, but it is time to move on. We often get caught up living in the past and not living for the future.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Mrjlh

[sgtsabai]

Were you a Marine in VN? Yes, those are Marines, I know well. I saw that a few times and while I didn't take offense then, it did some how bother me. I know our black brothers did. I think maybe you never met many black members of the USMC. I don't give a rat's ass how many memorials, statues of Robert E. Lee, and graves are on government property of one type or another, it is the flag that is symbol of hatred, racism and slavery on government property that is the problem. I also think you don't read very well. Here I'll help you read a bit of my previous post, oh and btw I had an great uncle that was a Confederate colonel: "Robert E. Lee was an honorable man fighting for a dishonorable cause, although many if not most thought they were defending the South against the Yankees even though they never owned a slave in their lives. Kinda' like today's teabaggers in a sad way. A great general and tactician The display of the flag at his tomb, which I have visited along with most of the battlefields, is not the same as flying it over government property."

[Publicus]

I saw the flags, still what is your point? Let me try again, the flag display in his tomb is ok with me, it is the flag display on government, be it federal, state or local property that people are rightly upset about. His tomb is a museum, exactly where that flag belongs. A flag is a flag is a flag, NOT. That flag is a symbol of hate, racism and slavery and should never be displayed on any government property. Go fly it in your yard if you wish, good for the neighbors to know what kind of person you are.

Do you know how many statues of Robert E Lee are on government property? Do you know how many graves of confederate soldiers are on government property?

Do you know how many historical exhibits of the Civil War and the Stars and Bars are on government property?

I have never met a person who has served in the Armed forces of the United States of America that does not respect the Confederate soldiers who died during the Civil War and also their battle flag (exception being the soldiers inside LBJ).

I have never met a person who has served in the Armed forces of the United States of America that does not respect the Confederate soldiers who died during the Civil War and also their battle flag.

This astounding statement cannot go uncontested. It is a preposterous claim that causes me as an Army veteran to question the experience of the claimant....was he the full time duty corporal at Lee's church tomb???

In my own military service during the 1960s, which was during the zenith of the Black Civil Rights Movement and the war in Vietnam is exactly contrary. My voluntary military experience was also during the time of military conscription, so the armed forces had a far better representation of the larger society than it has had since the draft was ended in 1974.

During four years of university ROTC and then four years of active duty service in Infantry, I and many other regulars in the armed forces expressed among one another our great contempt of the Confederacy, its soldiers, its symbols such as the battle flag, and all the Confederate States of America in fact were and to the present continue to represent. The Reb soldiers from the Old Confederacy that I shared military service with during the 1960s were dubious soldiers indeed, largely unrepresentative of American society, culture, civilization, as a whole and historically.

The CSA were entirely about treason, a shameless insurrection, human bondage, contempt of the Constitution of the United States of America. I knew many many fellow Americans, who, same as I, were in the uniform of the armed forces of the United States who had only contempt for the Confederacy and of its legacy whether the legacy in our time manifested as civilian or US military, Gov. George Wallace and his kind in particular.

Our black American military personnel tolerantly suffered the rednecks in uniform but only because they had no choice in a racist society that had a history of a racist military as well as racism across its institutions from education to religion to government and so on. Still, there were those of us whites who did not accept it either but we white guyz could speak out without fear of a direct racist backlash, even if one had to often speak discretely in the presence of cracker officers of any rank and nco's too.

Confederate soldiers fought bravely but mostly wildly and each one got what he deserved for his miserable regional cause, society, culture, sub-civilisation.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Mass shooting tragedy. Debate flags.

I love America, I really do.

But on this, their sense of priority is warped due to being fearful of the NRA. It ain't oppressive government you fellas news worrying about it seems.

What on earth does the "NRA" have to do with the "Confederate flag?" There is a small group of haters on Thai Visa, at every opportunity display distain for the NRA; America; American police; Tea Party; Fox News; and guns. I suspect most of these individuals lead boring and miserable lives.

The Confederate flag is merely a symbol of southern pride. Romney must have bumped his head, siding with Obama on anything. Of all things to concern yourself with, the Confederate flag should be at the bottom of the list.

The confederate flag and the Battle Flag in particular have been high on the list of many people for a long time.

Now it is at the top of almost everyone's list as well it should be.

If Romney did bump his head it certainly resulted in what could look like a rare moment of genius, however passing it surely will be.

"Southern pride" is being redefined so do try to keep up plse thx.

[lostoday]

I saw the flags, still what is your point? Let me try again, the flag display in his tomb is ok with me, it is the flag display on government, be it federal, state or local property that people are rightly upset about. His tomb is a museum, exactly where that flag belongs. A flag is a flag is a flag, NOT. That flag is a symbol of hate, racism and slavery and should never be displayed on any government property. Go fly it in your yard if you wish, good for the neighbors to know what kind of person you are.

Do you know how many statues of Robert E Lee are on government property? Do you know how many graves of confederate soldiers are on government property?

Do you know how many historical exhibits of the Civil War and the Stars and Bars are on government property?

I have never met a person who has served in the Armed forces of the United States of America that does not respect the Confederate soldiers who died during the Civil War and also their battle flag (exception being the soldiers inside LBJ).

I have never met a person who has served in the Armed forces of the United States of America that does not respect the Confederate soldiers who died during the Civil War and also their battle flag.

This astounding statement cannot go uncontested. It is a preposterous claim that causes me as an Army veteran to question the experience of the claimant....was he the full time duty corporal at Lee's church tomb???

In my own military service during the 1960s, which was during the zenith of the Black Civil Rights Movement and the war in Vietnam is exactly contrary. My voluntary military experience was also during the time of military conscription, so the armed forces had a far better representation of the larger society than it has had since the draft was ended in 1974.

During four years of university ROTC and then four years of active duty service in Infantry, I and many other regulars in the armed forces expressed among one another our great contempt of the Confederacy, its soldiers, its symbols such as the battle flag, and all the Confederate States of America in fact were and to the present continue to represent. The Reb soldiers from the Old Confederacy that I shared military service with during the 1960s were dubious soldiers indeed, largely unrepresentative of American society, culture, civilization, as a whole and historically.

The CSA were entirely about treason, a shameless insurrection, human bondage, contempt of the Constitution of the United States of America. I knew many many fellow Americans, who, same as I, were in the uniform of the armed forces of the United States who had only contempt for the Confederacy and of its legacy whether the legacy in our time manifested as civilian or US military, Gov. George Wallace and his kind in particular.

Our black American military personnel tolerantly suffered the rednecks in uniform but only because they had no choice in a racist society that had a history of a racist military as well as racism across its institutions from education to religion to government and so on. Still, there were those of us whites who did not accept it either but we white guyz could speak out without fear of a direct racist backlash, even if one had to often speak discretely in the presence of cracker officers of any rank and nco's too.

Confederate soldiers fought bravely but mostly wildly and each one got what he deserved for his miserable regional cause, society, culture, sub-civilisation.

I believe the largest collection of NCO's ever assembled at one time from the US Army was at the NCO club at Long Binh in Vietnam. The band played Dixie and more than half stood up and sang along, The officers I knew in Vietnam were from Alabama. We had a bit of a racial problem in Vietnam in case you didn't know. Mostly it went on at LBJ. That's my experience. I believe your experience and thoughts expressed eloquently by the quote, "each one got what he deserved for his miserable regional cause, society, culture, sub-civilisation."

Your above post says a lot about you.

[WaywardWind]

The NRA? Here comes the whack-job fringe left. Did the NRA also kill Cock Robin? Maybe sunk the Titanic?.

I agree Romney is wrong on this. The Confederate flag is a symbol against what the South felt was tyranny against states' rights vs. the strong federal government the North wanted. And, no it doesn't stand for slavery. No matter what the poorly educated say.

Nonsense.

The stars and bars was the third official battle flag of the confederate states, and was later used by the KKK in their campaigns of terror across the southern states. It has since been adopted by right wing white supremacist groups for the same effect.

Have a look at the declarations of secession for the states which joined the confederacy, and you will find again and again that the issue of slavery was the prime motivator.

All the revisionism in the world will not change those words.

Edited June 24, 2015 by WaywardWind

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a couple of inflammatory posts and reply to one of them. Time to end that discussion that is off topic.

[Guest]

Not this time because I can't figure out what your point is. Robert E. Lee was an honorable man fighting for a dishonorable cause, although many if not most thought they were defending the South against the Yankees even though they never owned a slave in their lives. Kinda' like today's teabaggers in a sad way. A great general and tactician The display of the flag at his tomb, which I have visited along with most of the battlefields, is not the same as flying it over government property. http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/06/22/petition-mississippi-confederate-flag/29113157/?source=%5B%27CSAMedition%27%5D&via=%5B%27newsletter%27%5D http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/23/republican-who-kept-confederate-flag-flying-is-a-rebel-sympathizer.html?via=newsletter&source=CSAMedition http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/22/special-session-to-debate-confederate-flag.html

OK, in a moment of total irony, here are the cliff notes on Robert E Lee.

His father blew the family fortune, but he was lucky enough to marry money.

His inheritance, which included among other things, more than 80 slaves .... had a clause that those slaves had to be emancipated within 5 years of his acceptance of the properties.

"The Will of George Washington Custis

“In the name of God, amen. I, George Washington Custis, I give to my dearly beloved daughter and only child, Mary Ann Randolph Lee, my Arlington House estate. . . for her natural life. On her death it goes to my eldest grandson, GWC Lee, to him and his heirs forever. . . And upon the legacies to my four granddaughters being paid, then I give freedom to my slaves, the said slaves to be emancipated by my executor in such manner as he deems expedient and proper, the said emancipation to be accomplished in not exceeding five years from the time of my decease.”"

[JemJem]

Here is a nice, interesting and also informative article :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-e-price/yes-youre-a-racist----and-a-traitor_b_7640654.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592