Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system

[Thai at Heart]

I know some practising chirugians in BKK who only work for farang in private hospitals and i agree they make a huge amount of money. Even their collegues from the West can only dream of that.

All medical staff deserves a proper salary in my opinion but the ones who want to become millionaires should have become bankers. I don't understand why medical staff in the West (and also in Thailand it seems) has become so greedy.

What stops you to become a surgeon yourself and become a millionair also?

Maybe the 6 years of medical school with 60+ hour work weeks followed by 4 years of specialisation with 80+ hour workweeks (I know one doctor who is currently specializing to become a surgeon and he makes 20 hour workDAYS regularly). If you can get in at least, as they do require you to be at the top of your class to even be considered to enter.

And the pay during those 10 years? Most get paid so little that they need to find side jobs during that period if their parents don't send money (taking shifts in the hospital where they study or a nearby hospital).

Bob,

Your post is perfect - I have no idea what most of the people on this thread are talking about. The prices I see at Bangkok hospital for top service with often Western educated specialists is a fraction of the US costs.

As an example seeing a Western trained specialist for an appointment that is scheduled for up to a half an hour is 600 baht with no insurance. So just under $20. A similar important in the US would be a large multiple of $20.

Medicine at the hospital pharmacy is more expensive than an outside pharmacy so I get what they call a passport which is a summary of your prescribed medicine which I then take to an outside pharmacy - no problem no pressure.

All this price comparison means little until something goes wrong. The reason that the care is so expensive in the USA is liability insurance.

Go and see how well compensated u are in Thailand if there is negligence versus elsewhere in the world. So, u are rolling a dice.

In the USA you would be compensated with millions of USD. In Thailand you would be compensated with barely million of baht. This is the fundamental reason for the difference in pricing with overseas.

One would have to conclude that the private hospitals here are gouging horribly since one can get the same surgeon in a different building for massively reduced rates. Does Brumrungrad hold some global insurance policy against negligence? I think not.

On their website they say: "The hospital and all Bumrungrad physicians carry full liability insurance"

https://www.bumrungrad.com/BIHFiles/17/17f83143-182b-4ca0-b22e-cb3794702f8a.pdf

Well, I would suggest that some reading of the small print might be necessary on that one.....to see if it equates to similar insurance in the west...

[Scuba 1st]

The price for foreigners is low compared to their home country, thats why they go to Thailand in the first place. What would bd good is if the Thai government could tax the "expensive" hospitals and improve the system for the benifit of the Thai people.

[cumgranosalum]

The price for foreigners is low compared to their home country, thats why they go to Thailand in the first place. What would bd good is if the Thai government could tax the "expensive" hospitals and improve the system for the benifit of the Thai people.

This is not actually true - for Americans maybe, but most Europeans have universal healthcare....

how many Brits or Germans do you know who are paying off a giant medical bill?

[ChrisY1]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

That pretty much sums it up.

It use to be "cheaper " but from personal experience I find it is the same if not more expansive now.

Shoulder surgery Bkk Hospital- close to 500k

Shoulder surgery in Sydney Australia, private room -$16000,close to 500k

The only competitive prices remain is the physio and dental, everything else is about the price of Western countries

You mention shoulder surgery...just had a reconstruction....new ball joint, 250K....Rama Hospital

[Pib]

On their website they say: "The hospital and all Bumrungrad physicians carry full liability insurance"

https://www.bumrungrad.com/BIHFiles/17/17f83143-182b-4ca0-b22e-cb3794702f8a.pdf

No doubt they do but to meet "Thailand liability needs" which I think we all know is pretty low based on almost daily news reports of someone getting compensated for an injury or death at some ridiculously low amount compared to what we are use to seeing western countries.

[HooHaa]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

yes medical costs are so much more reasonable in the "western" world.

[stoli]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

You have to be joking. They don't come close to the out of control health care greed in the US. And in those countries that provide "free" or subsidized medical care, services are being cut back and the governments funding the services are sinking under debt that is unlikely ever to be repaid.

And in the US, potentially life-saving medical procedures are routinely withheld from those who can't afford them. Even those who pay for expensive insurance coverage are not really protected. Insurance companies can decided with a flip of the coin whether or not to pay for anything out of the ordinary.

How any farang can come to Thailand and "see" greed here as if it didn't exist on a far higher scale in his own country ought to be amazing ... but then this is Thai Visa where posters wear rose colored glasses when thinking about the farang paradise from which they fled as economic refugees and now they wile away their time in Thailand sitting by the pool, looking for things to criticize.

Your sarcasm does not prove your point.

Did you read the post, or just have a need to say "Your sarcasm does not prove your point."? The post is point on.....

[cumgranosalum]

It would seem that the majority of posts on this thread are off topic.

The OP is about the effect the policies of private hospitals is having in respect in medical tourism will have on the NATIONAL healthcare systemsystem.

It is not about how much various procedures cost in relation to the US.

"The medical hub policy should be reconsidered, she said, because private hospitals are focusing more on foreign customers who can be charged 50 per cent higher than Thai patients. As a result, the overall outlook for fees would be an increase for local patients in order to keep a balance. "

[bazza40]

"government tackle the problem by implementing a medical tax on tourists to lower their purchasing power, forcing private hospitals to cut their treatment fees."

Let me see if I get this right: perhaps a 20k tax on a 70k procedure for total of 90k. This is such a warped view of how to apply econ 101.... Hospital at least gives treatment, whereas government may even be reason had to go to hospital (lack of traffic law enforcement led to accident). This is so odd.... do they see medical care like a pack of cigarettes, trying to lower consumption with a tax.... It boggles my mind.... medic!

Think the person responsible for this egregiously stupid idea is confusing retirees here with tourists, putting them all in the same basket. Have a tax on tourists, fewer will come here for medical treatment. Fixed costs for the hospitals rise as a result, profit goes down. Perhaps this logic is too obvious to be valid.

[Soutpeel]

The price for foreigners is low compared to their home country, thats why they go to Thailand in the first place. What would bd good is if the Thai government could tax the "expensive" hospitals and improve the system for the benifit of the Thai people.

Excellent idea, and if they require resident farangs to have proper medical insurance before getting the extension/visa, all resident farangs can use the private "expensive" hospitals and the the amount of tax collected per your idea would be increased thus being able to put more money into the "Thai system"

Edited June 23, 2015 by Soutpeel

[stoli]

My wife's experience needing ESWL treatment for kidney stones was that the big American hospital in BKK was at least 6 times cheaper than what we would have paid in the US.

Two sessions of ESWL 80k THB for first session, 20k THB for second (plus some incidental's total 120k) In the US it would have easily cost over 500k THB for the same treatment.

We went to at least five different hospitals, some suggesting two nights stay, others suggesting treatment for over a month. We ended back at my first choice (wife had to shop around) and found it to be the best option.

The experienced Urologist we found laughed and said one treatment with a second follow-up in three days to ensure the stone was removed.

I would find it very difficult to believe the private hospitals in Bangkok come anywhere close to the US costs.

It may well be 6 times cheaper than the USA. However, the USA is well know for being extremely expensive for medical care compared with the rest of the world.

I recently got medical insurance worldwide except N America. To include N America would have more than doubled the cost of the policy.

Please stop comparing every thing with America. That's what the doctors and hospitals are doing. Thailand is not America. Your comparison hurts people who are retired here. You may be a visitor and consider the charges moderate compared with the U.S. But people who live here have to shell out six times more money because of frivolous comparisons.

The OP made a valid comparison.

[Soutpeel]

"government tackle the problem by implementing a medical tax on tourists to lower their purchasing power, forcing private hospitals to cut their treatment fees."

Let me see if I get this right: perhaps a 20k tax on a 70k procedure for total of 90k. This is such a warped view of how to apply econ 101.... Hospital at least gives treatment, whereas government may even be reason had to go to hospital (lack of traffic law enforcement led to accident). This is so odd.... do they see medical care like a pack of cigarettes, trying to lower consumption with a tax.... It boggles my mind.... medic!

Think the person responsible for this egregiously stupid idea is confusing retirees here with tourists, putting them all in the same basket. Have a tax on tourists, fewer will come here for medical treatment. Fixed costs for the hospitals rise as a result, profit goes down. Perhaps this logic is too obvious to be valid.

I would suggest having the tax on the "Residents" over the tourists seeing as these are the ones using Thai infra-structure more, and very few of them pay income tax in Thailand, so unless you can prove you pay income tax in Thailand or your a genuine tourist, you pay a "residents" tax

This way there is no impact on increasing the costs for bona fide medical tourists

[stoli]

My relative was in a hospital in bkk and everyone knew this patient would never be able to leave the hospital....In and out of ICU more than two dozen times....half for problems that were from unsanitary actions.......Unlimited Health coverage....at a cost of near 4 million.....DOLLARS......living nightmare. Was shown the cameras a dozen times by staff to make sure everything would remain as it should.......This poor person was a cash cow.......for years........I could write a book.

Get a life.....You can not even write a response that makes any sense.

[kingdratsab]

I can only say on personal experience of BUMRUNGRAD..was quoted originally 750k for lung cancer surgery...saw 2nd consultant 30 mins later...quoted 950k....surgery "NEXT DAY"...A Result!...left to have chemo in UK ...after adding all ADD ONS,...50 k short of 2 MILLION Baht. Was told in UK by the consultant an excellent job done in BKK.. Although grateful for that, I was not happy with the under handed way they removed that cash from my hip pocket...regrettably no insurance.

[stoli]

But surely medical tourism is not a justifiable excuse for charging the same fees for Thai and Expat patients

There is no recognition of 'expat' status here. None. Unless you're one of a handful who have been granted residency, you're a tourist. We all are. Even after 20,30 years. Having to apply for tourist extensions of stay (based on whatever) each and every year should be a clue.

As with most countries, you can become a Thai national. Just because you choose not to is not their fault.

[Soutpeel]

This is an open secrete that Thai private hospitals are fees gougers and some time to the extreme,

Most local business acumens is to milk the proverbial cow to it's last drop and milk and gut

the goose that lays the golden eggs, they don't know where to stop, and how much is too

ridiculously too much already, yes, they have fantastic facilities with fairly advanced good

care, but they make you sick again when you get the bill...

In short, Our service is great , but our prices will kill you,

For a foreigner at a privet hospital with insurance, Sometimes just sometimes if you can produce a yellow house book you can get a much reduced price.

The public system is the same, My wife worked in the health business for a decade or more.

1. for a Thai person, if you have not resisted your name with that particular hospital you go too the 30 baht scheme will not apply.

2. The hospitals purchased price of medicines and health supply's and the price charged is MASSIVE.

3. Anything that is specialist based :ie, staff equipment, and medicines, the mark up is again MASSIVE.

4. Many out-patient procedures are directed to be in-patient procedure, and the system is manipulated to generate money.

5. Public hospitals Basic patient care is NOT done by the nurses but the family members, anyone who has been in a public hospital ward will know this.

6. Any checks and balances are simply lip service as the money that is made is on a scale only those in the business know.

7. So if there were real transparency instead of open corruption the health care budget could be slashed by how many MILLIONS???

8. The privet hospitals don't give a flying @#$*&^ what is happening to the public sector or those that can't afford privet hospitals, MONEY IS EVERYTHING!!!

Just an opinion as truth in a country of lies can be a crime, TIT

I am sorry for you. To live a life so jaded. To mistrust everyone. You don't even know how long your wife was in the medical field. Why should anyone believe your comments?

I struggle to believe what he has written, certainly this little gem below...

1. if you had insurance why would you be bothered securing a reduced price with them, that's a job for your insurance company if they believe they have been charged too much

2. I don't have a yellow house book, and in 14 years here using the private hospitals can think of any occasion where it appears I haven't been charged anything other than the "local price"

or a foreigner at a privet hospital with insurance, Sometimes just sometimes if you can produce a yellow house book you can get a much reduced price.

[Soutpeel]

I can only say on personal experience of BUMRUNGRAD..was quoted originally 750k for lung cancer surgery...saw 2nd consultant 30 mins later...quoted 950k....surgery "NEXT DAY"...A Result!...left to have chemo in UK ...after adding all ADD ONS,...50 k short of 2 MILLION Baht. Was told in UK by the consultant an excellent job done in BKK.. Although grateful for that, I was not happy with the under handed way they removed that cash from my hip pocket...regrettably no insurance.

OK but to draw a comparison, when you put your car in for a service or repair work, is the price quoted typically the one you pay ? no usually the actual price is higher, for one reason or another, seems to me they provided you with an estimate which you accepted, did you question why the differences ?.....when you had the surgery was there something which came up which wasn't anticipated ?

I don't see nothing under handed, they gave you an "estimate" which you accepted and accepted the T&C's, you could have gone somewhere else if you perceived "underhanded practices"

If you had insurance, you wouldn't have been bothered about the price differences correct ?

[kingdratsab]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

[kingdratsab]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

..............if a car dealer gave you a price of 100k baht for a new gear box would you be happy with a bill in excess of double the amount?....I think not.

[cumgranosalum]

The price for foreigners is low compared to their home country, thats why they go to Thailand in the first place. What would bd good is if the Thai government could tax the "expensive" hospitals and improve the system for the benifit of the Thai people.

Excellent idea, and if they require resident farangs to have proper medical insurance before getting the extension/visa, all resident farangs can use the private "expensive" hospitals and the the amount of tax collected per your idea would be increased thus being able to put more money into the "Thai system"

so you still believe in the "trickle down" theory? You'll be telling us that fairies exist next......

[cumgranosalum]

The price for foreigners is low compared to their home country, thats why they go to Thailand in the first place. What would bd good is if the Thai government could tax the "expensive" hospitals and improve the system for the benifit of the Thai people.

Excellent idea, and if they require resident farangs to have proper medical insurance before getting the extension/visa, all resident farangs can use the private "expensive" hospitals and the the amount of tax collected per your idea would be increased thus being able to put more money into the "Thai system"

so you still believe in the "trickle down" theory? You'll be telling us that fairies exist next......

[dageurreotype]

"government tackle the problem by implementing a medical tax on tourists to lower their purchasing power, forcing private hospitals to cut their treatment fees."

Let me see if I get this right: perhaps a 20k tax on a 70k procedure for total of 90k. This is such a warped view of how to apply econ 101.... Hospital at least gives treatment, whereas government may even be reason had to go to hospital (lack of traffic law enforcement led to accident). This is so odd.... do they see medical care like a pack of cigarettes, trying to lower consumption with a tax.... It boggles my mind.... medic!

Think the person responsible for this egregiously stupid idea is confusing retirees here with tourists, putting them all in the same basket. Have a tax on tourists, fewer will come here for medical treatment. Fixed costs for the hospitals rise as a result, profit goes down. Perhaps this logic is too obvious to be valid.

To them, we are all tourists. Age, marital status doesn't come into it. Having to apply for your extension of stay each and every year, compounded by having to report to Immigration every ninety days, should give you a clue. Don't go getting lulled into any false sense of security now. There ain't none. You can be gone on a whim/in a heartbeat. Sorry to spoil your day

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

and of course you queried this and what did they tell you ?

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

..............if a car dealer gave you a price of 100k baht for a new gear box would you be happy with a bill in excess of double the amount?....I think not.

no I would in the first instance, query as to why the difference in price, but then if I had "insurance" for this occurrence, I wouldn't really care, as that's what I was paying the premiums for

[Tywais]

Off topic and personal attack posts removed.

[i claudius]

My sons friend broke his arm,his mother took him to Bangkok Pattaya,they quoted a price ,she said no we are going to another hospital you are to expensive ,they halved the price there and then ,go figure

Edited June 23, 2015 by i claudius

[JohnThailandJohn]

The Thai mantra, is greed.

Only all over the world Thailand

[Traveling Sailor]

Far too many cases of sheer exploitation of people's distress is becoming a legend in Phuket. It is now one of the main topics of discussion on social occasions - bringing a very bad name to the medical profession and Thailand. One recent case - a worried couple were charged 4,500 baht by the small clinic at Laguna (canal village) for five-minute "treatment" of a young child who had been stung by a jelly fish on the beach at the Outrigger resort. The parents told everyone that the shock of the bill was almost as much as the incident on the beach

Phuket's hospitals are now all owned by the same company, bar the Government Vachira aka 'The Slaughterhouse' and small and tatty 'semi private' Mission. So 'an anti monopoly commission should be set up here. On the plus side, when they tried to charge the same prices as their main Bankok Hospital at their newly acquired Siriroj Hospital, they were market forced to lessen the prices again. BH 2,000 baht for an x-ray, Siriroj - 700 baht. I also hear from a previous member of staff at Siriroj that quality of care has weakened due to 'selfishness' resulting from their new owners attitude to health care. Money making only. Bangkok Hospital on Phuket is widely known as a 'mill'. I wouldn't go back there if they paid me.

Not knowing it is a "mill", I took my Thai partner there because 3 other hospitals and several clinics could not figure out what was wrong with her. After a 5 hour trip, two nights in a hotel, 12 hours in the hospital seeing 3 different doctors, an MRI and parting with over 28,000 baht, no diagnosis, no help, no clue. Talk about pissed! Like you, dageurreotype, I will never go there again.

Deos anyone know about Bangkok hospital in Bangkok??

Edited June 24, 2015 by Traveling Sailor

[deepcell]

From what I've read on here the costs here are sometimes 30% cheaper than the western equivalent and so foreigners think it's a good deal and we get lots of ''the hospital needs to make a profit aswell'' arguments. It makes sense since it is a business BUT the wages paid to staff here are 50 - 80% cheaper than in the west, operational costs are cheaper and propert prices are cheaper. So the hospitals are, discussed in terms of the country's economy and GDP per capita, relatively much more expensive and much more profitable than the western ones.

some docs are making a huge load of money. true na krap. If you need a doctor goto another country.

Edited June 24, 2015 by deepcell

[h82goslow]

this response is for ( soalbundy): I am going to have my hernia operated on the 2nd week of July in Isarn. Could you tell me how much your operation cost and a little about the procedure? (how long did it take, how much time did you spend in the hospital, any complications, how long were you down before being able to do anything normal?) My wife's school teachers got a quote from a private hospital in Sakon Nakhon for a private room for 3 days for 27,000 and non private room for 25,000. But I am thinking that is the Thai price. Any information you can give me would be of great help. Thanks.