Big Impact Expected From Tougher Visa Rules

[angusandtj]

Someone said earlier in this thread that the tourist industry only accounts for 17% of the GDP for Thailand and this small amount of money that will be lost will not be significant. Are you kidding?!?! If even 5% of that were taken away the results would be tremendous.

The tourist industry is hardly going to be affected though. I personally can't see that people who will leave because of this account for 5% of GDP. Those that do leave will soon be replaced by others coming in.

I don't know about you, but I spend almost as much living here as when I was a "good tourist" and I'm sure I'm not the only one. There will be others that come here to vacation but who will help the Thais during the low season after that a huge portion of the "bad tourists" have left?

No doubt tourist numbers will continue to increase as will people looking to live in Thailand on retirement/marriage/work visas.

New, stricter visa laws = increase????? If you say so...

[Tuschno]

Do you think the "bad guys" do not have the funds to go back to the US or UK? I think many involved in criminal activity have a lot more resources than you do ramidin!!! Why are people constantly telling us that bad guys have no money and good guys do? What does money have to do with someones character? Please explain it to me as i find this point of view rather shallow.

I'm not sure, but I don't think ramidin was referring to "bad guys" as not having funds or resources. Criminals choose Thailand as their refuge for various reasons, and usually it is not their intentions to fly back to their "home country" when on the run.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Someone said earlier in this thread that the tourist industry only accounts for 17% of the GDP for Thailand and this small amount of money that will be lost will not be significant. Are you kidding?!?! If even 5% of that were taken away the results would be tremendous.

The tourist industry is hardly going to be affected though. I personally can't see that people who will leave because of this account for 5% of GDP. Those that do leave will soon be replaced by others coming in.

I don't know about you, but I spend almost as much living here as when I was a "good tourist" and I'm sure I'm not the only one. There will be others that come here to vacation but who will help the Thais during the low season after that a huge portion of the "bad tourists" have left?

No doubt tourist numbers will continue to increase as will people looking to live in Thailand on retirement/marriage/work visas.

New, stricter visa laws = increase????? If you say so...

Yes, I do say so. The visa laws aren't stricter for tourists that wish to stay for less than 90 days (which is the vast majority) and tourist numbers, particularly from other Asian countries, will continue to increase.

As I have said elsewhere, it will have a short-term affect but it won't be the financial meltdown that some are predicting.

[taxexile]

Look at it from their point of view sitting on the floor eating their daily staple of rice and ??? while you and your high horse are deciding what you'd like to eat tonight.

controversially , some might see it as a comeuppance for all the double pricing , bill padding , short changing , falang..you pay , baht bus extortion that the tourist/visitor has had to endure whilst here.

consider it a simple balancing of the books.

whilst i know that life for many thais is a daily fight for survival , i also know that there is no shortage of jobs in this country for those who want to work.

there are too many in the tourist business who just want to rake in the maximum amount of money for the least amount of effort , some will now have to adopt a different attitude.

[LoveDaBlues]

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

It is simply the honest and obvious truth, icecubes, regardless of how much you and other prudes would like to deny it.

So its the reason you are here???

Obviously! Just like nearly every other foreign man living in Thailand.

looks like I'm a prude too. rather be called that than a grubby, sad, sex tourist

Your assumptions about the hygeine or psychological state of we sex tourists are largely inaccurate, Markyprude. I for one wash frequently and am a very cheerful fellow.

The difference between you and britmaveric, and myself is that I am honest about why I am here.

Well, we'll have to disagree on that. It is unfair to expect me to argue with someone who knows my own mind better than I. Oh, and don't tell me, every Thai g/f or wife is a former bar girl from Issan. Look outside your own little bubble occasionally - not everyone is like you.

Which one of you two (brit & opebo) is the 'Amazing Carnac' and which one is the sidekick? Wow you guys are great mindreaders!

In my village the farang I know are happily married and faithful to one woman. Glad you're not a soap dodger though.

[angusandtj]

Look at it from their point of view sitting on the floor eating their daily staple of rice and ??? while you and your high horse are deciding what you'd like to eat tonight.

controversially , some might see it as a comeuppance for all the double pricing , bill padding , short changing , falang..you pay , baht bus extortion that the tourist/visitor has had to endure whilst here.

consider it a simple balancing of the books.

whilst i know that life for many thais is a daily fight for survival , i also know that there is no shortage of jobs in this country for those who want to work.

there are too many in the tourist business who just want to rake in the maximum amount of money for the least amount of effort , some will now have to adopt a different attitude.

So I suppose you enjoy putting in the max amount of effort for the least amount of money? Interesting. And you're successful using those business practices?

Lots of jobs, true. How many hours and days do you work? Do you or could you work out in the April sun for 12 hours a day, seven days a week? Give it a try, maybe it would be something you'd enjoy.

Edited September 17, 2006 by angusandtj

[Backpack_thailand]

This is hilarious! People move to Thailand to avoid heating bills?! They move to Thailand for SEX, Martin.

You prat, what a thing to say, bet your dick is as small as your brain.

So its the reason you are here???

Obviously! Just like nearly every other foreign man living in Thailand.

Just out of curiosity Opebo, have you spoken with "nearly every foreign man" living in Thailand?

Tosser!

[zeusbheld]

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

LMAO.

No, I like the view from my high horse, thank you.

if this is what it takes to make you feel important and special, knock yourselves out. don't let anyone tell you that feeling special because of your work permit may be indicative of a hollow, petty existence, just enjoy it, shine on you crazy diamonds. just try not to trip over your bloated sense of your own superiority, k?

[zeusbheld]

Look at it from their point of view sitting on the floor eating their daily staple of rice and ??? while you and your high horse are deciding what you'd like to eat tonight.

controversially , some might see it as a comeuppance for all the double pricing , bill padding , short changing , falang..you pay , baht bus extortion that the tourist/visitor has had to endure whilst here.

consider it a simple balancing of the books.

whilst i know that life for many thais is a daily fight for survival , i also know that there is no shortage of jobs in this country for those who want to work.

there are too many in the tourist business who just want to rake in the maximum amount of money for the least amount of effort , some will now have to adopt a different attitude.

i think it is delusional to see it as justice for anyone, even if incidentally some people who deserve it get shat upon. if fact, even if almost all of the people who get shat upon deserve it, it is still nothing more than politicking to curry favor at election time through nationalist, protectionist immigration and economic policies.

PS keep your eyes open, the next speeding bus may be heading toward you--anything may change, it's TRT pushing for all this, and TRT doesn't stand for 'we love farrangs'. and contrary to what the various and sundry windbags claim, it doesn't stand for 'we love the GOOD farrangs' either.

[astral]

The RED STAMP is here now!

Oct 1 immigration at all entrys will look into incomming passports and make a quick decision about how many stamps the holder has. When they are over the limit they will be given a RED STAMP put in a profound spot (like the first page). This RED STAMP says " Upon exiting Thailand you MAY NOT be permitted to reenter"

That is when you get deported.

They will need a new one now, in English, so the airlines can recongnise and read it.

[F1 Visa Runner]

when children observe adult behaviour patterns on a regular basis it becomes the 'norm' to them.

a child who watches adults smoke cigarettes all day every day will see nothing wrong in adopting that behaviour.

a young girl exposed regularly to the antics of beer bar greeters or go go girls will see that as normal female behaviour.

kids seeing adults in beer bars or pubs sucking on beer bottles all day will have the wrong message imprinted into their heads and when those adults are falangs then the association becomes extremely negative indeed.

these places should be away from schools , preferably strictly zoned , and not open to the street.

Tax - last I checked thats what Parents are for - teach their lil ones. Do as you are told, not what you see.

Anyways I don't think most people who frequent those spots are up at 9am - more like afternoon.

Exactly taxexile, perfect said ! And thats exactly the reason for why the thais are the 3rd most drunken nation in the world. They just get that Sengsom, Mekong, Singha or Chang bottle plugged right into their mouth after being born. This will in fact be the new navel string!

You want to blame that shit on the farangs too. Give me a <deleted>#KIN break!

It more likely that they will learn other things from having foreigners around. What about seeing foreigners jogging around town.. throwing garbage where it should be.. being a little more fashion up to date.. no nose picking.. etc..

From your posts it sounds like you regard tourist areas as schools where thai people learn bad behavior. For that reason you should head straigth up to Bangkok Hilton prison and ask the inmates where they learned all their shit. They sure didn`t grow up in any of thoses places.

[blam]

Bendix and nuffsaid, get off of your high horses and get into the street level of this thing.

LMAO.

No, I like the view from my high horse, thank you.

Oh for heaven's sake komrad bendix.

Why are you in this forum if it doesn't concern you? Go out and play in the street like a good boy, just don't let the bad old Bangkok street dogs bite yer ass as you leave Starbucks.

BTW, 25 years ago, when the domestic terminal was the only terminal in Kreung Thep. All of the Thai men in the packed coffee shop were NOT drinking coffee, no they were quaffing Singha, Kloster, and Amarit... and huffing cigarettes at a nasty clip, at 6:30 in the morning! (I have these cool old vhs movies to prove it.) Maybe that's why Thai kids are so messed up now... (ala Thaksin? Oh wait, he was living in Amerika learning his kraft at the time.)

You like being the snot nosed ruffle-shirted kid with the chocolate stains on your cheek bendix? We used to beat the crap out of guys like you in Vancouver just for the short time entertainment value. We all got rich, the snot nosed kid ended up selling cars at his daddy's car dealership. You sound like the same type.

Back to the visa issue, I understand now that:

They will be very subjective at each and every border entry, air, boat, or ground, it seems to make no difference, and you are purely at the whim of the officer you happen to choose. I have so much crap in my passport, it's stuffed with: places that are questionable (Colombia, Turkey, Lebanon, etc.,) a couple of Thai overstays, a bunch of different kinds of USED full page Thai visa stickers, and maybe 20 VOAs and visa runs (especially lately.) My guess is that it's time to burn my PP and run to the Canadian Consulate saying it was eaten by my puppy 'bendix', get a new PP, and let myself be a virgin again. What say?

'Old and in the way' in Phuket

[bkkandrew]

does this attractive red stamp say NEVER or Wait for 90 days?

Simply because it puts you in their control from that point forward, you cannot wail at them on arrival from a 12-hour flight that you did not know anything about it. Equally, they can say OK - come in if they like you, you havew a good story, or, no doubt, cross their palm with...

[PeaceBlondie]

The subject of this topic is what impact these new visa rules will have upon us expatriates, and upon Thailand. We're just guessing, of course. And would it be too moderatorivistic for me to ask you expatriates to be a bit more civil? Save the insults for your next drunken binge at the pub, or on your front porch, okay? I think we're all in this thing together, comrades.

Imagine, as I got an email last night, that your friend back in the old country wrote you an email last night asking you, "Hey, can I come to Thailand, get a submissive Thai young wife, and live like a prince on a pauper's income?"

For the first time, I told my friend in Texas, "Absolutely not. Go to Mexico, or retire in the Philipines. In Thailand, you may never learn the language, the cultural differences will drive you mad, and you hate oppressive, unfriendly governments. You wouldn't want to work here even if you could, and you surely don't want to invest in this economy. Mexicans think; Thais are taught not to think. Also, you don't want to be subject to the whims of the bureaucrats who are run by a demagogue who got his Ph.D. in Texas."

How did most of us come to Thailand the first time? By recommendations of friends who thought it was a great place to live. I'm often mistaken, but I think there will be a big impact on the number of such recommendations.

[Thaiquila]

Good one, PB.

I also tell friends about the situation in Thailand, and for the most part they are giving it a pass. Its still for me, but could be masochistic tendencies.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Thaiquila

[bendix]

How did most of us come to Thailand the first time? By recommendations of friends who thought it was a great place to live. I'm often mistaken, but I think there will be a big impact on the number of such recommendations.

Let's hope you're not mistaken.

Really . . . I have never ever heard so much nonsense talked as has been expressed in these threads. Only a fool of the highest calibre can't see what the aim of these new rulings are - it isnt an anti-farang policy in general; it is aimed at those farang who:

1) have systematically exploited a loophole in the lax immigration laws for years; and

2) a growing criminal class who seem to have found a home in Bkk, Phuket, Pattaya and CM and who have bought their freedom for the sake of a 3m investment visa.

Let's not over-react.

Some good people will, sadly, suffer as a result of this but that is life. Such people have to live by the law as guests in a strange country, regardless of how much or how little they pump into the economy, directly or indirectly.

Any farang knows - and this applies to us all - that we are here as guests and that laws can change very quickly. Tough; that's the real world. But stop thinking that we have some god-given right to (as another poster so pithily put it) have tailormade visas made for every circumstance we find ourselves in.

[bendix]

By the way, to the poster who suggested I'm russian and a leninist. LMFAO.

I would have thought it obvious from my posts that I'm a great believe in individual responsibility and not relying on others to prop up our own lives. That's as far from leninism as i can imagine. The same could be said of your post and the word 'intelligent'.

[angusandtj]

How did most of us come to Thailand the first time? By recommendations of friends who thought it was a great place to live. I'm often mistaken, but I think there will be a big impact on the number of such recommendations.

Let's hope you're not mistaken.

Really . . . I have never ever heard so much nonsense talked as has been expressed in these threads. Only a fool of the highest calibre can't see what the aim of these new rulings are - it isnt an anti-farang policy in general; it is aimed at those farang who:

1) have systematically exploited a loophole in the lax immigration laws for years; and

2) a growing criminal class who seem to have found a home in Bkk, Phuket, Pattaya and CM and who have bought their freedom for the sake of a 3m investment visa.

Let's not over-react.

Some good people will, sadly, suffer as a result of this but that is life. Such people have to live by the law as guests in a strange country, regardless of how much or how little they pump into the economy, directly or indirectly.

Any farang knows - and this applies to us all - that we are here as guests and that laws can change very quickly. Tough; that's the real world. But stop thinking that we have some god-given right to (as another poster so pithily put it) have tailormade visas made for every circumstance we find ourselves in.

Bendix, stop trying to read between the lines and getting it wrong. If you really are trying to get a feel for the atmosphere then this is it: alot of the people here are upset about losing something they've grown accustomed to but will abide. That is a given. The sentiment you're not picking up on is that it is not really the farangs that will be hurt most by this as most have other options. It is the average Thai and most of the posts here are trying to point out that this was a rash decision that will have harsh consequences for the average Thai. So the good people that will suffer the most will be the Thais that depend on that money. Quit being so abrasive and just listen with an open mind.

Edited September 17, 2006 by angusandtj

[Jimjim]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

[angusandtj]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

[John K]

OK here is what I see at this particular moment.

First is to the best of my knowledge this still has not been in the Thai media. The longer the delay in getting there the more it suggests that this is politically motivated and has little or nothing to do with the reasons cited by the Thais. Why has it only appeared in English media? For a country that is a tourist destination, news of tourist visa changes should be front page on all Thai papers.

Very simply it is time to be proactive and not reactive. Don’t think so much about yourself, but think about the Thais that you see and know. Get the word out to the working Thais as they are the ones who will suffer when the people leave Thailand. Help them connect the dots if they don’t see it. If they know they will make some noise. It is that noise and possibly only that will end this. So push away from the keyboard and spend some time talking to the Thais.

The key point I will mention again for the people who may have missed it. The people who will be effected by this have been integrated into the Thai economy. They don’t stay in hotels but they stay in apartments. Hundreds of not more of non tourist related Thai businesses have started up to support them and have them as customers. The revenue generated by them is significant. It would have about the same impact as Thailand ejecting all Muslims or any other group that is part of the economy.

I would be very curious to hear what the Thai news editor has to say about this and why it was not in the news.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

I have no idea which category Thailand belongs to but if I did, I certainly wouldn't be using wikipedia to back up my argument.

[mark lamai]

a letter to The Nation from a Thai person.

-------------------------------------------------------------

New visa rules in line with regulations elsewhere

Although I can understand LS Bergman's exasperation with potential changes to Thai visa rules ("Blanket visa regulations cause unnecessary difficulties", Letters, September 13, 2006), the writer utterly fails to understand why the rules might have been put in place. Clearly Thailand has no wish to bar foreigners from entering the Kingdom. After all most nationalities can enjoy 30 to 90 days of a visa-free, no-questions-asked visit. Instead, the new measures are aimed at preventing long-term stay of poor and/or unemployed foreigners in Thailand.

It is a bit infuriating isn't it to be judged exclusively by your economic status? That is unacceptable. But then Thailand is simply following great examples set by Western countries which do not hesitate to judge foreigners based on their nationalities and economic well-being and yet have the audacity to preach human rights. Maybe Thailand would do away with these rules once Thai citizens are treated on a reciprocal basis.

Meanwhile, with our limited natural resources, we unfortunately can only allow economically well off and productive foreigners to remain in the country.

P Ittigusumaln

Bangkok

-----------------------------------------

obviously and educated and erudite person.

but to me it illustrates the failure of clear logical thinking that is also behind the new visa enforcements.

take a poor/unemployed long-stayer.

how exactly is he/she diminishing/exploiting Thailand's natural resources?

- taking up space on a beach?

- getting free healthcare?

- eating cheap on palm oil and windfall coconuts?

it would simply be more truthful to say straight out, "we don't like them and we don't want them"

of interest also were a number of letters concerning the enforcement of company law.

they all concluded that Thailand is not a place for investment anymore.

I said elsewhere , so here again.

I think that:

the combined effect of the visa changes and the company law enforcement

will have a very significant effect on the Thai economy.

would love to hear from a suitably qualified economist with knowledge of Asia on this subject.

(wealthy retired dentists need not apply)

think about it.

if the Temasek-Shin corp deal is shot down,

Tesco, Carrefour deemed illegal operaters, which by the law they are I think.

all land owned by foreigners via a company is illegal and might be repossessed.

education companies/schools profits slide because of lack of teachers/high turnover/increased expenses.

immediate decrease in condominium sales.

already one large lingerie manufacturer is relocating to vietnam/china because "wages are too high in Thailand"

what manufacturing company would want to set up in Thailand?

I may have spent 3-5 million baht on a land/house, but certainly not now.

When I was a scumbag low-life english teacher (even though I am a fully qualified and registered teacher in Australia), I earned a humble 30-40K a month and every baht was spent back into the Thai economy.

agree , folks like me will have a minmal effect, but combined with the above it will be significant.

[angusandtj]

OK here is what I see at this particular moment.

First is to the best of my knowledge this still has not been in the Thai media. The longer the delay in getting there the more it suggests that this is politically motivated and has little or nothing to do with the reasons cited by the Thais. Why has it only appeared in English media? For a country that is a tourist destination, news of tourist visa changes should be front page on all Thai papers.

Very simply it is time to be proactive and not reactive. Don’t think so much about yourself, but think about the Thais that you see and know. Get the word out to the working Thais as they are the ones who will suffer when the people leave Thailand. Help them connect the dots if they don’t see it. If they know they will make some noise. It is that noise and possibly only that will end this. So push away from the keyboard and spend some time talking to the Thais.

The key point I will mention again for the people who may have missed it. The people who will be effected by this have been integrated into the Thai economy. They don’t stay in hotels but they stay in apartments. Hundreds of not more of non tourist related Thai businesses have started up to support them and have them as customers. The revenue generated by them is significant. It would have about the same impact as Thailand ejecting all Muslims or any other group that is part of the economy.

I would be very curious to hear what the Thai news editor has to say about this and why it was not in the news.

Bravo.

[angusandtj]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

I have no idea which category Thailand belongs to but if I did, I certainly wouldn't be using wikipedia to back up my argument.

That was just the first link I grabbed. There are many.

[zeusbheld]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

i'm not sayin' weakiepedia is authoritative, but they *did* corroborate my impression that 'developing country' is a newer way to say 'third world country.'

you apparently know better, so correct their article, please.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

I have no idea which category Thailand belongs to but if I did, I certainly wouldn't be using wikipedia to back up my argument.

That was just the first link I grabbed. There are many.

As there are many listing Thailand as a developing country, such as the world bank etc. Type into Google 'list of developing countries' and make your own mind up.

In fact the world bank puts Thailand into the lower-middle income category. Anyway this is all a bit off topic..

Edited September 17, 2006 by Colonel_Mustard

[cclub75]

Something surprises me : why people don't call immigration services, locally and abroad ? Or send e-mail, or fax ?

Why we don't go overthere, to ask what are the details of the new regulations ?

If hundreds or thousands of people try to get bit of information. By doing a synthesis we would have a pretty clear view of the situation...

Or we would expose the fact that neither the thai officials know what to do exactly...

It would be a good test.

[Arsenal]

OK here is what I see at this particular moment.

First is to the best of my knowledge this still has not been in the Thai media. The longer the delay in getting there the more it suggests that this is politically motivated and has little or nothing to do with the reasons cited by the Thais. Why has it only appeared in English media? For a country that is a tourist destination, news of tourist visa changes should be front page on all Thai papers.

Very simply it is time to be proactive and not reactive. Don’t think so much about yourself, but think about the Thais that you see and know. Get the word out to the working Thais as they are the ones who will suffer when the people leave Thailand. Help them connect the dots if they don’t see it. If they know they will make some noise. It is that noise and possibly only that will end this. So push away from the keyboard and spend some time talking to the Thais.

The key point I will mention again for the people who may have missed it. The people who will be effected by this have been integrated into the Thai economy. They don’t stay in hotels but they stay in apartments. Hundreds of not more of non tourist related Thai businesses have started up to support them and have them as customers. The revenue generated by them is significant. It would have about the same impact as Thailand ejecting all Muslims or any other group that is part of the economy.

I would be very curious to hear what the Thai news editor has to say about this and why it was not in the news.

One doesn't quite know whether to laugh or cry at a post like this.Nevertheless it's just an extreme example of the self deluded long stay/permanent visa runner farang that thinks any serious body of Thai opinion regards their presence as a valuable asset.Fact is nobody really cares about their current predicament.Relax guys:it's probably not going to be as stringent as some of you think and in any case we have traded on the Thais generous immigration regime for a long time.But who can blame the Thais for tightening up and getting tough with foreigners who abuse the system.

[angusandtj]

Thailand is a third world country in case some of you have forgotten.

In case some of you have forgotten, Thailand is not actually a third-world country, but a developing country. Get your facts straight.

Get your facts straight.

Under it's current definition Thailand IS considered a third world country. You don't believe me? Try this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_world

Do a little research before you speak and try to correct someone.

I have no idea which category Thailand belongs to but if I did, I certainly wouldn't be using wikipedia to back up my argument.

That was just the first link I grabbed. There are many.

As there are many listing Thailand as a developing country, such as the world bank etc. Type into Google 'list of developing countries' and make your own mind up.

In fact the world bank puts Thailand into the lower-middle income category. Anyway this is all a bit off topic..

Was just making the point that they are the same. Just different words that mean the same thing. I don't need to Google it as it is the actual definition of the phrase that puts Thailand into that category, not you, not me, but the definition.