New UK visa changes... Earn over 35,000£ or get out!

[Bernard Flint]

Did you know migrants let into the UK to work can/could claim benefits if their income was to low........

I thought they had to be in the uk a minimum amount of time

Dunno, read it on I think yahoo news a couple of years back, the figure quoted was 32,000 were claiming. Pisses me off that I paid into a system all my life and can't get a couple of quid a week upgrade on my pension per year cos I am in LOS, but a foreigner, even a Thai, can be given cash when they haven't paid in a lifetime of tax and NI into the UK coffers as l/we have...

Dont forget generations od dole scroungers get that too, basicaly a free pension, without paying a bean. Iam the same, as an expat, but i knew this so i dont worry about it, just made other arrangements to increase my funds yearly.

[Donutz]

I note that these proposals do not apply to UK resident bringing their spouse to the UK.

The requirements of this are draconian already, my last enquiry (last year) revealed that to return to the UK with my spouse I would be required to have £63,000 in the bank or an annual income of in excess of £19,000. Despite owning my own home in the UK valued in excess of £600,000 which is mortgage free, on the income or capital requirements I can not qualify. I wonder how many retirees can. Surely being unable to live with my wife in my country of origin is a Breach of my Human rights to a family life.

This is something being used all the time for criminals to avoid being deported from the UK, yet I am precluded from living out my life in my country of birth with my chosen partner

Silly rules if you ask me, if one earns enough to support themselves (or say atleast full time minimum wage), is no burden or nuisance to the state or neighbourhood, why would anyone wish to stop a (married or unmarried) couple to live together??!

Now the whole EU&immigrants are evil and to blame for all our problems is sadly quite a popular story right now but you could still write to political parties and explain your unfair situation. One letter won't change a thing, maybe not even a thousand but you'd hope that eventually they realize that the rules are not exactly fair.

I got some very nice but also silly replies from Dutch parties. The Dutch Labour Party for instance wrote "we feel your pain, your girlfriend and you are not one of the people we target as you will do just alright but we need all these rules against some of the immigrants" (that it meant a lot of costs, bureaucratic BS and other nonsense for us is an acceptable fact or evil). The Liberal Party (it's economically liberal, socially more conservative and therefor the party for employers and wealthy families) wrote an even more silly reply, not giving a damn about my/our liberties at all even though we where no threat to anyone such as the treasury (wellfare) or neighbourhood. Arguing that the rules need to be made even stricter to solve problems with immigrants. Even though the most well known problems (those that get attention in the media) which the public worries about are either 2nd generation (and even they don't usually wish to get a mail order bride to use as their personal maid & housewife locked up behind closed doors), often with Dutch nationality or 1ste generation labour guestworkers which came here under Liberal administrations in the 60-80's which at the time was only interested in cheap labour and did not wish them to integrate.

The irony of the Liberals taking away our liberties is just laughable. But according to thrm we could always excersize our freedom to live together elsewhere. Err? But other parties sent a much more constructive reply. I fully understand the need to stop abuse and other problems but just blaming immigrants and the EU and then proposing generic fast solutions is just wrong. The reasons and solutions regarding immigration & integration are much more complex and you cannot lumpsum all (family) migration together. But it may take a lot of patience for politics to return to more fair rules and solutions.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Donutz

[transam]

Did you know migrants let into the UK to work can/could claim benefits if their income was to low........

I thought they had to be in the uk a minimum amount of time

Dunno, read it on I think yahoo news a couple of years back, the figure quoted was 32,000 were claiming. Pisses me off that I paid into a system all my life and can't get a couple of quid a week upgrade on my pension per year cos I am in LOS, but a foreigner, even a Thai, can be given cash when they haven't paid in a lifetime of tax and NI into the UK coffers as l/we have...

Dont forget generations od dole scroungers get that too, basicaly a free pension, without paying a bean. Iam the same, as an expat, but i knew this so i dont worry about it, just made other arrangements to increase my funds yearly.

For sure, but our system was built and fought for to provide that for it's citizens. LOS ain't got a system, many countries ain't got a system, thats why huge numbers of foreigners are trying to get into the UK to use that system that we pay/paid for.

[micmichd]

I note that these proposals do not apply to UK resident bringing their spouse to the UK.

The requirements of this are draconian already, my last enquiry (last year) revealed that to return to the UK with my spouse I would be required to have £63,000 in the bank or an annual income of in excess of £19,000. Despite owning my own home in the UK valued in excess of £600,000 which is mortgage free, on the income or capital requirements I can not qualify. I wonder how many retirees can. Surely being unable to live with my wife in my country of origin is a Breach of my Human rights to a family life.

This is something being used all the time for criminals to avoid being deported from the UK, yet I am precluded from living out my life in my country of birth with my chosen partner

So you are living on less than 19 grand a year in uk, how do you manage that. Some rules are designed to stop the dole criminals, claiming and doing jobs with cash in hand, or even selling ciggies/drugs etc. If u love her that much get a loan from your big house, easy, stick in ye bank and job done

To be honest if u had a million squid house, all paid for and u cannot show a measly 19k, no wonder they are suspicious

Suspicious about what?

Maybe he's a pensioner, and pensions are not that high in UK.

Doesn't a pensioner also have a human right to live with a partner of his choice in the country of his choice?

The only right he has, is abide by the rules or suffer. i live in Thailand and have to have 800,000 baht in my CURRENT account, when re-applying for another yearly extension. So why should he have it easy

Because he's British.

[DDuval]

I note that these proposals do not apply to UK resident bringing their spouse to the UK.

The requirements of this are draconian already, my last enquiry (last year) revealed that to return to the UK with my spouse I would be required to have £63,000 in the bank or an annual income of in excess of £19,000. Despite owning my own home in the UK valued in excess of £600,000 which is mortgage free, on the income or capital requirements I can not qualify. I wonder how many retirees can. Surely being unable to live with my wife in my country of origin is a Breach of my Human rights to a family life.

This is something being used all the time for criminals to avoid being deported from the UK, yet I am precluded from living out my life in my country of birth with my chosen partner

Sell your house...Problem solved :-)

[superal]

I note that these proposals do not apply to UK resident bringing their spouse to the UK.

The requirements of this are draconian already, my last enquiry (last year) revealed that to return to the UK with my spouse I would be required to have £63,000 in the bank or an annual income of in excess of £19,000. Despite owning my own home in the UK valued in excess of £600,000 which is mortgage free, on the income or capital requirements I can not qualify. I wonder how many retirees can. Surely being unable to live with my wife in my country of origin is a Breach of my Human rights to a family life.

This is something being used all the time for criminals to avoid being deported from the UK, yet I am precluded from living out my life in my country of birth with my chosen partner

I could not agree more with you as I am in an almost identical situation , asset rich but cash poor ( enough to live on comfortably ) . The British government are discriminating against the senior true Brit who were born and bred in the UK and almost certainly made significant contributions from taxes and national insurance. One other point is that why has the government come up with a figure of £19,000 income + £63,000 savings . Yet they expect the single O.A.P. to live on a meagre state pension of around £130 a week or under £7000 a year along with savings of £15,000 or under . They really have shot themselves in the foot here and I believe that this needs to be challenged in the European courts . It makes me very annoyed to look at the benefits given to UK immigrants and the stingy treatment of the true Brit .I can understand government concerns of a senior guy bringing a much younger partner into the country who then disappears or if she becomes a widow she would be asking for support from benefits but these issues could easily be addressed .

[Jonathon]

The unintended consequences (governments excel at unintended consequences don't they?) could well be that decent people are kept out whilst the illegal riff-raff from certain parts of the world still get free ticket to everything.

[micmichd]

The unintended consequences (governments excel at unintended consequences don't they?) could well be that decent people are kept out whilst the illegal riff-raff from certain parts of the world still get free ticket to everything.

Could be good business conditions for all kinds of pimps and human traffickers.

Edited June 26, 2015 by micmichd

[watso63]

I note that these proposals do not apply to UK resident bringing their spouse to the UK.

The requirements of this are draconian already, my last enquiry (last year) revealed that to return to the UK with my spouse I would be required to have £63,000 in the bank or an annual income of in excess of £19,000. Despite owning my own home in the UK valued in excess of £600,000 which is mortgage free, on the income or capital requirements I can not qualify. I wonder how many retirees can. Surely being unable to live with my wife in my country of origin is a Breach of my Human rights to a family life.

This is something being used all the time for criminals to avoid being deported from the UK, yet I am precluded from living out my life in my country of birth with my chosen partner

You could always go for equity release or downsize (in cash terms) but your point about being denied a family life is a valid point. Hire a lawyer and see where you get. Good luck if you do and let us know how you get on.

[ResandePohm]

It'certainly not going to get easier for migrants. Presumably this only applies to migrant workers and not partners/wives?

That we can only hope, But they now have weird ideas,caused through the EU Unelected MPs The whole thing is a mess.A mess that will take 300 years to clean

up. All I can say Is fxxx them all.

The clock is ticking, just wait,The Euro and the fourth reich will be the first to fall,they call it the Domino syndrome

What a load of codswallop!

Since when have EU MPs been unelected and I have never heard of the Domino syndrome nor the fourth reich

[theoldgit]

One other point is that why has the government come up with a figure of £19,000 income + £63,000 savings.

That isn't the figure, the earnings a sponsor needs to demonstrate is £18,600, if they cant demonstrate that figure they can use savings, or a combination of savings and income, they don't need both.

If a sponsor has no income at all then they need £62,500 in savings to meet the financial requirement. The OAP you quote, assuming they had no other income, could use cash savings in the region of £48,000 to meet the requirement.

I do agree that from the beginning this was ill thought out and doesn't address the issue. previously ECO's needed to satisfied that the sponsor could in fact afford sponsor their partner, all discretion has now been removed, it's just a box ticking exercise.

[Trevor1809]

Yet they expect the single O.A.P. to live on a meagre state pension of around £130 a week or under £7000 a year along with savings of £15,000 or under .

Very good point. It annoys me to hear about the so called living wage in London being about £3 an hour above the minimum wage. Most pensioners or unemployed would love to get the minimum wage let alone the living wage.

[7by7]

I wonder what impact it will have on the Thai restaurants. I guess, that it will make it very tough to bring new Thai ppl over to replace any that leave.

Most thais, who are working in restaraunts, are doing illegaly, no work permits, cash in hand, throw them out i say

From a later post you made it seems you live in Thailand; so how do you know this?

We know several Thai restaurant and takeaway owners, all of them employ staff who are in the UK legally and legally allowed to work.

Mainly Thais here on settlement visas, but also students who are legally allowed to work for up to 20 hours a week.

The law states that the onus is on the employer to check and ensure that anyone they employ can legally work in the UK; either because the potential employee is a British citizen, and EEA national or, if neither, has a visa or leave to remain which allows them to work. The penalties for employing illegal workers are severe; including a fine of up to £10,000 per illegal worker. Restaurants and takeaways are one area which UKVI enforcement teams regularly check.

Like your and other's later inaccurate comments about certain migrants being given benefits, it is obvious that your above remark is based purely on ignorance.

[7by7]

One area, as already mentioned, which will be hard hit by this rule, which was actually introduced in 2011 but has only now come to the media's and therefore the public's attention, is the NHS.

Why does the NHS recruit nurses and doctors from outside the EEA, let alone outside the UK?

Because they cannot recruit enough from within.

Not only does this absurd rule mean that non EEA national nurses will have to leave after 6 years, it also makes it harder to recruit these much needed people in the first place.

Were you a non EEA national nurse looking at overseas job offers, which would you choose; the UK where you know you'll probably be kicked out after 6 years, or another country where you know you'll be allowed to stay indefinitely after a reasonable qualifying period?

Migrant salary rules may cost NHS nurse jobs, union warns

.....British Medical Association Dr Mark Porter, speaking at the doctor's conference which is also taking place this week, also came to the defence of people from abroad who are working in the NHS.

"What did we hear in the election campaign from politicians of several parties?

"We were told immigrants are filling up our GP surgeries and our hospitals.

"Well they are. They're called doctors. And nurses. And porters and cleaners and clinical scientists. And without them, the NHS would be on its knees."

[Jonathon]

It'certainly not going to get easier for migrants. Presumably this only applies to migrant workers and not partners/wives?

That we can only hope, But they now have weird ideas,caused through the EU Unelected MPs The whole thing is a mess.A mess that will take 300 years to clean

up. All I can say Is fxxx them all.

The clock is ticking, just wait,The Euro and the fourth reich will be the first to fall,they call it the Domino syndrome

What a load of codswallop!

Since when have EU MPs been unelected and I have never heard of the Domino syndrome nor the fourth reich

There seems to be some confusion here. EU laws are made by the European Commission, a bunch of 28 unelected bureaucrats. Sure they are passed to the EU Parliament for ratification, but the parliament has very limited powers so may debate amongst themselves before accepting what comes down from the EC.

I believe I am right in saying that no law passed down from the EC has ever been rejected by the parilament. They are indeed the present day equivalent of a Fourth Reich and their plans are for the "Final Stage" of Economic and Monetary Union "at the latest by 2025".

Google:

"Five Presidents' Report sets out plan for strengthening Europe's Economic and Monetary Union as of 1 July 2015"

"Roadmap Toward a Complete Economec and Monetary Union"

If you are from the UK be very concerned - our country is being given up to these unelected bureaucrats by our own government and the Queen..

[brewsterbudgen]

The EU commission are appointed by democratically elected politicians and, as you say, all decisions have to be ratified by the European Parliament. You post sounds like UKIP talking points with little relation to the facts.

[7by7]

Whatever the confusion about how EU laws are made and by whom; this topic has absolutely nothing to do with the EU or EEA.

This is a decision made by the UK government alone, which, like all EU and EEA members, has complete autonomy over it's immigration laws as they pertain to non EEA nationals.

Except, of course, for things like Surinder Singh applications; but they have zero relevance to this topic; which is about Tier 2 workers who entered the UK under the UK's immigration rules.

[Jay Sata]

One area, as already mentioned, which will be hard hit by this rule, which was actually introduced in 2011 but has only now come to the media's and therefore the public's attention, is the NHS.

Why does the NHS recruit nurses and doctors from outside the EEA, let alone outside the UK?

Because they cannot recruit enough from within.

Not only does this absurd rule mean that non EEA national nurses will have to leave after 6 years, it also makes it harder to recruit these much needed people in the first place.

Were you a non EEA national nurse looking at overseas job offers, which would you choose; the UK where you know you'll probably be kicked out after 6 years, or another country where you know you'll be allowed to stay indefinitely after a reasonable qualifying period?

Migrant salary rules may cost NHS nurse jobs, union warns

.....British Medical Association Dr Mark Porter, speaking at the doctor's conference which is also taking place this week, also came to the defence of people from abroad who are working in the NHS.

"What did we hear in the election campaign from politicians of several parties?

"We were told immigrants are filling up our GP surgeries and our hospitals.

"Well they are. They're called doctors. And nurses. And porters and cleaners and clinical scientists. And without them, the NHS would be on its knees."

You omit to mention that there are around 100,000 UK nursing applicants every year for around 20,000 jobs.

It costs around £70,000 to train a nurse but the NHS can recruit three foreigners for that money.

The same problem exists with the training of doctors.

The NHS is overbloated with pen pushers,administrators and chief executives. The latter are usually on packages double that of the prime minister.

Blair and Brown opened the floodgates to the mass employment of foreign workers.

It is about time we started looking after our own instead of those overseas.

[7by7]

<snip>

You (7by7) omit to mention that there are around 100,000 UK nursing applicants every year for around 20,000 jobs.

It costs around £70,000 to train a nurse but the NHS can recruit three foreigners for that money.

As usual, you fail to provide any evidence to support your claim; but for once it is fairly accurate.

Except it's not 100,000 applicants for 20,000 jobs; according to the RCN it's 100,000 applicants for 20,000 training places.

80,000 UK students are told they can't train as a nurse: Thousands can't get on courses despite four in five new NHS workers being foreign

Plus, those who do manage to obtain a place and then qualify are not enough to meet the NHS's needs for qualified nurses.

NHS has to recruit one in four nurses from abroad

If the government increased the number of training places then eventually there may be enough home grown nurses available.

Then we would not have to recruit people from overseas to look after our own!

Edited June 26, 2015 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

My facts were correct in that unless a student gets on a nursing course and qualifies then they cannot get a job in the UK. So 80,00 prospective UK nurses are being denied a job every year in favour of foreign nurses.

The same applies to doctors. For some strange reason the UK operates a quota system why denies those who want become a doctor a place at medical school.

For 2013-2014, English universities were allowed to recruit just 6,071 medicine students, even though the General Medical Council registers 13,000 doctors each year and the NHS struggles to recruit enough staff.

So once again the NHS recruits foreign doctors in record numbers while denying work to those born her.

An estimated 6,000 newly-registered doctors each year are foreigners who trained overseas.

Experts have warned this practice puts lives at risk, because many of these doctors have poor English and are not always familiar with drugs used in this country.

Source http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/TrainingourNHSHealthWorkers

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jay Sata

[durhamboy]

It'certainly not going to get easier for migrants. Presumably this only applies to migrant workers and not partners/wives?

That we can only hope, But they now have weird ideas,caused through the EU Unelected MPs The whole thing is a mess.A mess that will take 300 years to clean

up. All I can say Is fxxx them all.

The clock is ticking, just wait,The Euro and the fourth reich will be the first to fall,they call it the Domino syndrome

What a load of codswallop!

Since when have EU MPs been unelected and I have never heard of the Domino syndrome nor the fourth reich

There seems to be some confusion here. EU laws are made by the European Commission, a bunch of 28 unelected bureaucrats. Sure they are passed to the EU Parliament for ratification, but the parliament has very limited powers so may debate amongst themselves before accepting what comes down from the EC.

I believe I am right in saying that no law passed down from the EC has ever been rejected by the parilament. They are indeed the present day equivalent of a Fourth Reich and their plans are for the "Final Stage" of Economic and Monetary Union "at the latest by 2025".

Google:

"Five Presidents' Report sets out plan for strengthening Europe's Economic and Monetary Union as of 1 July 2015"

"Roadmap Toward a Complete Economec and Monetary Union"

If you are from the UK be very concerned - our country is being given up to these unelected bureaucrats by our own government and the Queen..

I am no great lover of the EU but it is an absurd comment to label the EU as the Fourth Reich and offensive to the memory of all those who perished under the Third Reich. Criticise the EU as much as you like. That is your democratic right. Such rights were not available under the Third Reich. Enough said.

[micmichd]

One area, as already mentioned, which will be hard hit by this rule, which was actually introduced in 2011 but has only now come to the media's and therefore the public's attention, is the NHS.

Why does the NHS recruit nurses and doctors from outside the EEA, let alone outside the UK?

Because they cannot recruit enough from within.

Not only does this absurd rule mean that non EEA national nurses will have to leave after 6 years, it also makes it harder to recruit these much needed people in the first place.

Were you a non EEA national nurse looking at overseas job offers, which would you choose; the UK where you know you'll probably be kicked out after 6 years, or another country where you know you'll be allowed to stay indefinitely after a reasonable qualifying period?

Migrant salary rules may cost NHS nurse jobs, union warns

.....British Medical Association Dr Mark Porter, speaking at the doctor's conference which is also taking place this week, also came to the defence of people from abroad who are working in the NHS.

"What did we hear in the election campaign from politicians of several parties?

"We were told immigrants are filling up our GP surgeries and our hospitals.

"Well they are. They're called doctors. And nurses. And porters and cleaners and clinical scientists. And without them, the NHS would be on its knees."

You omit to mention that there are around 100,000 UK nursing applicants every year for around 20,000 jobs.

It costs around £70,000 to train a nurse but the NHS can recruit three foreigners for that money.

The same problem exists with the training of doctors.

The NHS is overbloated with pen pushers,administrators and chief executives. The latter are usually on packages double that of the prime minister.

Blair and Brown opened the floodgates to the mass employment of foreign workers.

It is about time we started looking after our own instead of those overseas.

Would British doctors work in the NHS for foreign doctors' wages?

[7by7]

My facts were correct in that unless a student gets on a nursing course and qualifies then they cannot get a job in the UK. So 80,00 prospective UK nurses are being denied a job every year in favour of foreign nurses.

Wrong again.

80,000 prospective British nurses a year are not being denied a job every year in favour of foreign nurses; they are being denied places on training courses to become nurses because the government only supplies 20,000 such places a year. If they are denied the training they need, they obviously cannot apply for the jobs as they are not qualified.

As previously shown, those 20,000 a year who are lucky enough to secure one of these places and then qualify are not enough to fill the need for nurses in the NHS; a need which has been increasing and will continue to increase as the British population grows proportionately older.

That is why the NHS has to recruit nurses from abroad.

The same applies to doctors. For some strange reason the UK operates a quota system why denies those who want become a doctor a place at medical school.

For 2013-2014, English universities were allowed to recruit just 6,071 medicine students, even though the General Medical Council registers 13,000 doctors each year and the NHS struggles to recruit enough staff.

So once again the NHS recruits foreign doctors in record numbers while denying work to those born her.

An estimated 6,000 newly-registered doctors each year are foreigners who trained overseas.

Again, the NHS needs to recruit foreign doctors because there are not enough British ones qualifying; you have proven my point for me.

Experts have warned this practice puts lives at risk, because many of these doctors have poor English and are not always familiar with drugs used in this country.

Source http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/TrainingourNHSHealthWorkers

I haven't yet had the time to read the whole of that report, but from the summary it also proves my point. The UK doesn't train enough health care professionals, so the NHS has to recruit from abroad to fulfil it's needs.

BTW, all Tier 2 applicants have to demonstrate their knowledge of English.

Most trusts have tougher tests for those non native English speakers they recruit.

The case highlighted in the report, Dr Ubani, is one where, for some reason, the proper test of his English skills were not carried out by the hospital that employed him.

Perhaps you think that native British doctors and nurses never make similar mistakes? You'd be wrong: Doctors' basic errors are killing 1,000 patients a month.

Are you now going to try and claim all those errors were committed by foreign health workers?

[Jay Sata]

You miss my point completely.

80,000 prospective UK nurses are being denied the chance to follow their chosen career every year because of the low number of training courses.

It is the same with UK medical students so while training places are restricted we import foreign doctors.

As for your ridiculous suggestion that foreign doctors working in the NHS are doing so at a reduced rate I won't even bother to go there.

There is no doubt that nurses and doctors from overseas do a good job but the fact remains we do not allow enough access for those from the UK to follow their chosen career.

With immigration running at around half a million a year and 25 % of all births in the UK being to mothers not born in this country we certainly do need a lot more medical staff.

Our free NHS and welfare sysyem is the best in the world which is why we see the illegals lining up at Calais to get their slice while ex pats living in Thailand are denied an increase in the pension they spent their life working for.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Jay Sata

[magnacarta]

Great idea,why should I pay tax as an expat and get no benefits or no pension increase when the immigrants get benefits,please justify it to me.

[magnacarta]

quite right too,why should they,tryt aking your familly back.I have a house plus savings.mcan tjhe immigrqnti am not black my wife does not wear a burhka we do not come from afrika can the immigrant ofisers let me in

[Jay Sata]

The system is slanted more in favour of immigrants than expats.

Move to Thailand and your pension is frozen.

The young males climbing on lorries in Calais have the crib sheet and know how to work the system.

[nuakmuaynina]

Access to nursing courses in the UK is something they should address. Whilst they do help with funding unless you have support from elsewhere is impossible to to live off it, and you cannot get part time work as unlike most students you are working 40+ hours a week in a placement in a hospital.

Immigrants from non eea countries cannot get any public funds for 5 years, non eea I'm less sure of but it's by no means instant.

I feel sad and often confused by all the homeless eea immigrants here, how can be being homeless in London be better than their home country?

At the moment in the news immigration is being discussed daily. The general tone is that everyone wants to come here because life is easy and they get handouts, which is the attitude of the general public too I think. Stupid scaremongering.

If they examined the realities of our system I think they'd be surprised. It's not easy. And far from what I'd call an open door policy.

[mrfaroukh]

I wonder what percentage of Brits earn so much???

[micmichd]

Is it maybe cheaper for UK to get nurses and doctors trained overseas, where they or their governments have the costs?