Camronwit still stuck in Japanese custody

[Lite Beer]

Camronwit still stuck in Japanese custody
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Former top cop's son, lawyer visit him as investigation into gun case continues

POL LT-GENERAL Camronwit Toopkrajank, a former Metropolitan Police commissioner, remains in police custody in Tokyo after he was arrested for carrying a gun into Narita International Airport on Monday.

A source said Camronwit's son and his lawyer visited him yesterday. "He tried to assure them that he is fine," the source said.

Camronwit was travelling with a group of Thais when he landed in legal trouble. He said he had unintentionally put the gun in his carry-on luggage.

Officials at Narita Airport detected a suspicious item in the carry-on luggage and found the small weapon.

The source disclosed that the North American Arms .22-calbre gun was a gift from one of Camronwit's friends.

"He has now assigned a close|aide to contact his friend to get the registration papers for the gun, which will be used as evidence," the source said.

An official of the Japanese government, when contacted by the Kom Chad Luek newspaper, reportedly said the gun was inside Camronwit's medicine bag and it was loaded with five bullets.

"Records show that judging by his facial expression, Camronwit was shocked to have seen the gun there. Speaking via a guide, he claimed he had no intention to carry a firearm on to an aircraft … he didn't know that the gun was inside his medicine bag," the official said.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the official said the investigation found that Camronwit put the medicine bag in the carry-on luggage for a flight out of Bangkok on June 18.

The official said police had submitted the gun to Japan's Scientific Crime Detection Unit to determine its power and whether it was legally registered.

"Public prosecutors will then decide whether to pursue a case against Camronwit," the official said, warning that gun-related offences in Japan carried harsh punishments.

"The offence is particularly serious as he took the gun into the airport and was about to board a flight," the official said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Camronwit-still-stuck-in-Japanese-custody-30263224.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-27

[Somtamnication]

Please stay there until due process. No favours for Thailand please.

His shocked face doesn't surprise me. You should see mine, when my wife catches me with chocolate I should not have eaten!

[bangkokfrog]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

[Pimay1]

Revision #3 and counting.

The source disclosed that the North American Arms .22-calbre gun was a gift from one of Camronwit's friends.

[NongKhaiKid]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

I would suggest the registration papers, if they exist, are something of an irrelevance as they are only applicable to Thailand.

Carrying a gun overseas without clearance from the host country is stupid and it's unlikely to have been given. Apart from the fact that the Japanese are hot on gun control and possession why would he need one when the purpose of visit was supposedly inspecting waste disposal systems ?

Thais need to learn, no mean feat, that who they think they are, what they can do, what they can get away with ends when they leave the country.

[Somtamnication]

I so confew. Airport says no guns went through their scans. Family says friend is trying to find the registration papers.

Question: Friend is looking for registration papers in Thailand or some Kao San Road equivalent in Tokyo?

[ezzra]

It warms the cockles of my heart to read that a Thai god like figure in his country is being kept

like a lowly criminal in Japan, maybe few days in the slammer will change his views on life...

[selftaopath]

"surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid ....."

SERIOUSLY? lol Oh no they are indeed known for their intellect; just like the other "geniuses" running the asylum.

[Manbing]

'The source disclosed that the North American Arms .22-calbre gun was a gift from one of Camronwit's friends.'

This is exactly what i said on day one, only to be shouted down as a fantasist.

I suspect the story(ies) that resulted claimed the gun was already owned by Ca'moron'wit and was taken out of Thailand, was to protect the person who gave it to him or avoid some tax or some such idiocy.

These criminals are all the same. When will they learn to come up with a single story and stick to it.

[NeverSure]

That gun is tiny by gun standards. It raises a lot of questions for me. It's .22 caliber which is far too light to be a real stopper but it's deadly just the same. It doesn't seem to be a gun an off duty cop would carry for protection. It's too small to be accurate especially at any distance and rather than hit hard it makes a very small hole with good penetration.

I'm not speculating but I wonder if something like that could truly be forgotten by someone who's used to traveling in Thailand and simply picks up the bag. Watch this guy shoot one at 1:04.

Edited June 27, 2015 by NeverSure

[Robby nz]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

Indeed only yesterday we were told :

Earlier it was suspected that Camronwit may have bought the gun in Japan. However, Thai police spokesman Pol Gen Prawut Thawornsiri told reporters that Camronwit had the gun from long before he retired. His son is now in Japan to show a registration document to Japanese police.

Could it be that the papers the son took with him were from a different gun and not the one his father had in his bag ?

If he cant produce papers for the particular weapon and he cant prove that he did take it with him from Thailand then the suspicion must remain that it was procured in Japan.

How many guns does he own and are they all legal. Can he prove the gun the Japanese are now holding was in his possession in Thailand ?

If not then the fact that it was not detected when he left the country could mean he didn't have it with him when he left.

What he appears to be saying now is that a friend (unnamed) gave him the gun without papers and he has sent someone to find this friend to get the papers.

If this is true then he had a gun in his possession without the required paperwork, would that not be another offense to add to the list ?

Little wonder they are holding him for another 10 days. If reports are anything to go by he has been a little careless with the truth.

[NongKhaiKid]

The BP website has a story that if convicted in Japan Kamronwit faces a charge in Thailand of smuggling a firearm out of the country carrying a penalty of 2+ years in prison and a Bt80,000 fine. However there's still the reminder that AOT say he couldn't have done it.

I wonder if ' faces ' will join the list of other words like could , might, possibly etc used to explain the potential for something to happen yet rarely does when it comes to certain people.

Mind you the reputation of Swampy is at stake and that of Thai aviation so get the hard line message out now. If he does time in Japan there's the possibility that Thai aviation will still be under scrutiny when he's released so the charge may have to be proceeded with to prove LoS is ' doing it's best '.

Edited June 27, 2015 by NongKhaiKid

[Robby nz]

That gun is tiny by gun standards. It raises a lot of questions for me. It's .22 caliber which is far too light to be a real stopper but it's deadly just the same. It doesn't seem to be a gun an off duty cop would carry for protection. It's too small to be accurate especially at any distance and rather than hit hard it makes a very small hole with good penetration.

I'm not speculating but I wonder if something like that could truly be forgotten by someone who's used to traveling in Thailand and simply picks up the bag. Watch this guy shoot one at 1:04.

The gun was identified as a Sidewinder 22 magnum 5 shot revolver somewhat more powerful than a 22lr. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta-ekVR0rX4

They are very capable of killing in a limited space......like the inside of a plane. Any airline has every right to be worried about someone carrying such a loaded weapon on a plane.

[Seastallion]

""Records show that judging by his facial expression, Camronwit was shocked to have seen the gun there."

Softening the public up for his impending release.....he really just made a mistake. And remember...we've also been told that he's an old man and forgets easily.

Shocked to have been caught, more like it.

[Banzai99]

He's got 23 days before they decide to prosecotue or not, they may let him go, or don't you think the Japanese are corrupt, if you think that, you know nothing about Japan

[Banzai99]

Ill tell you what, most of the replies will be from people who couldn't find Japan on a map of the world, when they start slagging off Japan or Japanese people, or Thailand and Thai people, they have probably never been to Asia, and if they they have been they didn't do much research, you went to a 3rd world country and expected what ? Monaco. Geneva, Tokyo, what did you expect, did you expect a fully developed country when you CHOSE to come to Thailand ?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Banzai99

[bangkokheat]

guess he felt he was above the law, he just forgot he wasnt in thailand where he can throw his weight around and do as he pleases

[Acharn]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

I would suggest the registration papers, if they exist, are something of an irrelevance as they are only applicable to Thailand.

Carrying a gun overseas without clearance from the host country is stupid and it's unlikely to have been given. Apart from the fact that the Japanese are hot on gun control and possession why would he need one when the purpose of visit was supposedly inspecting waste disposal systems ?

Thais need to learn, no mean feat, that who they think they are, what they can do, what they can get away with ends when they leave the country.

Looking this weapon up on Google, I'm surprised at how small it is. There are several models, and we don't know if this is the regular, the long rifle, or the magnum version, but they are all basically derringer sized, which means you could basically cover the thing with your hand. I have no idea what a "medicine bag" is. I think Native Americans used to carry magical implements and relics in what was translated from their languages as a "medicine bag." If it is used to carry medicines which must be taken regularly it's hard to see how he could not have been reminded of the presence of the thing every morning, noon, and night, or however often he had to take his medicine. On the other hand if it was filled with stuff like bandages, tourniquet, and disinfectant, to be used only in case of an emergency, it's hard to see why he was carrying it at all.

Assuming he has reason to be fearful of assassins, perhaps he has guns stashed all over his house and routinely carries something like this little dandy, and maybe he did just forget it. It's kind of bizarre. Not that a VIP like him would bypass the security check in Thailand, but that he would take a gun to Japan, where even the police are usually unarmed.

Oh, I just scrolled through some other replies and see that a helpful video was posted, telling us that this is the magnum version. Not sure how helpful it would be against a really determined attacker, but certainly deadly if you're lucky enough to hit the right spot.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Acharn

[Briggsy]

It is becoming more and more likely that Kamronwit actually got the gun from his Japanese contacts as a gift. You can imagine what type of people they might be. Hence the reason for no Thai registration papers, no evidence of the gun having passed through Suwannaphum, a macho cop carrying a very small gun, him taking an extraordinary risk, etc.

Looks like Japan is going to get some extra BOI privileges paid for by Kamronwit's family's fighting fund.

[oneday]

"...Camronwit still stuck in Japanese custody..."

Fantastic...he can learn a little humility...maybe.

[DoctorG]

I will not be surprised if he walks, but I will be disappointed.

[Acharn]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

Indeed only yesterday we were told :

Earlier it was suspected that Camronwit may have bought the gun in Japan. However, Thai police spokesman Pol Gen Prawut Thawornsiri told reporters that Camronwit had the gun from long before he retired. His son is now in Japan to show a registration document to Japanese police.

Could it be that the papers the son took with him were from a different gun and not the one his father had in his bag ?

If he cant produce papers for the particular weapon and he cant prove that he did take it with him from Thailand then the suspicion must remain that it was procured in Japan.

How many guns does he own and are they all legal. Can he prove the gun the Japanese are now holding was in his possession in Thailand ?

If not then the fact that it was not detected when he left the country could mean he didn't have it with him when he left.

What he appears to be saying now is that a friend (unnamed) gave him the gun without papers and he has sent someone to find this friend to get the papers.

If this is true then he had a gun in his possession without the required paperwork, would that not be another offense to add to the list ?

Little wonder they are holding him for another 10 days. If reports are anything to go by he has been a little careless with the truth.

OK, I'm posting very sloppily now, I should be looking this stuff up, but I have other stuff I want to get to doing. I think one reason AOT has to take the hard line is that they spent a suspiciously large sum of money for the CTX scanners, and there was IIRC an outcry in parliament about it. If it turns out that the scanner missed even such a tiny weapon, people may want to revisit the reasons for letting that contract. A spokesman a few days ago said the scanner was "set" to detect bullets and gunpowder. Does that mean these scanners operate the same way as the Army's bomb scanners, i.e. by psychic powers? Even more reason to question the contracts and who benefitted from them. What a bizarre case. Also, I understood Japan had a hierarchical society, not unlike Thailand, and would expect the elite there to try to protect him. Wonder if he managed to offend someone who now has an opportunity to punish him by withholding the expected help. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

[captspectre]

""Records show that judging by his facial expression, Camronwit was shocked to have seen the gun there."

Softening the public up for his impending release.....he really just made a mistake. And remember...we've also been told that he's an old man and forgets easily.

Shocked to have been caught, more like it.

he is about to get a lesson on what honest,, anti corrupt honorable police officers look like! the Japanese police have never been charged or implication in bribery or corruption. Police officer at their finest!

[Acharn]

"...Camronwit still stuck in Japanese custody..."

Fantastic...he can learn a little humility...maybe.

Ha! you make the comedy.

[Banzai99]

Thank god theres an Airport with plenty of flights out of Thailand.

Who's leaving ?

Edited June 27, 2015 by Banzai99

[Somtamnication]

Thank god theres an Airport with plenty of flights out of Thailand.

Who's leaving ?

You?

[Oziex1]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

You are too polite BKF, as what we are being told is BS.

These guys couldn't lay straight in bed and the reports struggle to translate it into something believable.

[Oziex1]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

Indeed only yesterday we were told :

Earlier it was suspected that Camronwit may have bought the gun in Japan. However, Thai police spokesman Pol Gen Prawut Thawornsiri told reporters that Camronwit had the gun from long before he retired. His son is now in Japan to show a registration document to Japanese police.

Could it be that the papers the son took with him were from a different gun and not the one his father had in his bag ?

If he cant produce papers for the particular weapon and he cant prove that he did take it with him from Thailand then the suspicion must remain that it was procured in Japan.

How many guns does he own and are they all legal. Can he prove the gun the Japanese are now holding was in his possession in Thailand ?

If not then the fact that it was not detected when he left the country could mean he didn't have it with him when he left.

What he appears to be saying now is that a friend (unnamed) gave him the gun without papers and he has sent someone to find this friend to get the papers.

If this is true then he had a gun in his possession without the required paperwork, would that not be another offense to add to the list ?

Little wonder they are holding him for another 10 days. If reports are anything to go by he has been a little careless with the truth.

Could it be the papers he took all had pictures of dead American presidents on them and the Japs wouldn't accept them as evidence.

[Oziex1]

"Camronwit still stuck in Japanese custody"

To me this headline says what a great inconvenience it is for the poor man to be stuck, like stuck in a traffic jam.

"Camronwit still in Japanese custody"

States the fact

[Baerboxer]

I thought I read originally that the son was traveling to Japan with the gun registration papers. Now we hear that a "friend" who gave him the gun has the / his papers. Or is it that the local plod are too slow in coming up with a set of papers that will pass international scrutiny for a gun they have never seen? In any event, surely a senior policeman would not be so stupid as to travel abroad with a gun without carrying its papers. There is clearly more to this than we are being told.

I would suggest the registration papers, if they exist, are something of an irrelevance as they are only applicable to Thailand.

Carrying a gun overseas without clearance from the host country is stupid and it's unlikely to have been given. Apart from the fact that the Japanese are hot on gun control and possession why would he need one when the purpose of visit was supposedly inspecting waste disposal systems ?

Thais need to learn, no mean feat, that who they think they are, what they can do, what they can get away with ends when they leave the country.

I agree - apart from your first sentence. Without the registration papers he cannot prove prior ownership and therefore cannot prove where he got the gun. He would be open to additionally charges of illegally purchasing a firearm in Japan - hardly an irrelevance.