Do Thais really have to learn English in school?

[scorecard]

The only Thai I know who speak English well, apart from the mrs is an 8 year old at a private School in Chiang Rai. Even kids at private Schools in Bkk don't seem to get further than hello, how are you what is your name, I'm fine thank how are you. But they can read much better, there is far too much emphasis on useless grammar that puts them off and is both boring and not necessary.

Kids in most schools in Thailand today do have English lessons, but in most cases it means learning English grammar, with little to zero focus on vocabulary development, little to zero focus on learning construction and little to zero focus on developing listening and comprehension skills and on learning conversation skills.

Add to that in most Thai schools (especially government schools), English grammar is taught by Thai teachers and 99% of the words they use to explain English grammar are Thai words, plus 99% of these same teachers cannot converse in English at all and most of them have a very small English vocabulary.

Add to that, the majority of the kids who are lucky enough to learn English conversation at school:

- Have zero conversation practice outside of the class room, either at home (parents can't speak any English) or elsewhere.

- Have parents / family who can speak simple English or Tinglish, meaning the spoken English they are exposed to at home is all wrong and just pushes these kids to also learn Tinglish.

Add to that some of the more expensive schools do have non-Thai English teachers, some are native speakers of English, some are not but in many cases have pretty good spoken English, and some have very weak spoken English skills peppered with wrong grammar etc. But it's very rare to see non-Thai teachers in government schools.

Also, (know this from my neighbor) some kids go to more expensive schools which have Thai nationals teaching English conversation but in the class room it often reverts for long periods to teacher and student speaking Thai, not English. Different scenario, I'm aware that at some universities which have international programs (meaning everything is in English) the Thai lecturers (often can speak advanced English) often revert back to spoken Thai, even for whole lessons, and leave the exchange / international students (can't speak Thai) just sitting there lost and confused and ignored.

Also, from my own experience, better not to interfere. My Thai son could speak advanced English and Thai (for his age) when he started kinder, and was pretty much a full native speaker of English (and Thai) by about P3. He / I learned to never make even simple comments about English classes conducted in Thai.

At university he once privately politely commented to his Thai English teacher (18 yrs old, no qualifications for anything, niece of the director) that her hand written teaching handouts* had mistakes. He rewrote the wrong sentences and gave the handout back to the teacher, making sure nobody else could see him, and said, 'can I please help a little bit'.

Teacher then gave him an F for English for the next 2 semesters. (*Example: 'Yesterday I go already to went shopping to go you shopping two girls ladies yesterday already now to go, you?')

Also, at the end of school many kids have achieved an A for English grammar (but their English conversation skills are zero) and they apply for jobs which say 'must have good English skills'. On the job application for English they write A.

Later somebody gives them an English spoken test and they can't answer even very simple / very basic questions. Then they are told they don't qualify for the job, then they object 'but this is very unfair, I got A for English'.

[MrBrad]

Thai students ... the ones who are not motivated, don't have to learn a thing.. you see it as they come to class..

You can take the horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink.

[Cornhack]

So many teachers employed for price and not qualifications. There is your problem.

[fred Kubasa]

Of crse de teach Thailess watcha tink ?

[lostoday]

I feel really sorry for the kids. They learn easily but there is no coordination from one teacher to the next and one year to the next.

It would be so easy to change. I could do it tomorrow on line in a couple of hours. Have all the Thai English teachers log into their facebook accounts and have some military guy tell them what to teach for the next three years. If they all were working on the same thing at the same time it would be a large improvement.

Simple stuff teach them to say a few words in kindergarten a few more in first grade and so on. Simple stuff like songs and athletic words to play games. A few things every year make it fun and they could learn it. Who cares about grammar? Where is the toilet. The toilet is over there. That would be a big improvement.

[thaibeachlovers]

I feel really sorry for the kids. They learn easily but there is no coordination from one teacher to the next and one year to the next.

It would be so easy to change. I could do it tomorrow on line in a couple of hours. Have all the Thai English teachers log into their facebook accounts and have some military guy tell them what to teach for the next three years. If they all were working on the same thing at the same time it would be a large improvement.

Simple stuff teach them to say a few words in kindergarten a few more in first grade and so on. Simple stuff like songs and athletic words to play games. A few things every year make it fun and they could learn it. Who cares about grammar? Where is the toilet. The toilet is over there. That would be a big improvement.

I was going to say something to the effect of why do you think they all have facebook accounts?, but sadly they probably all do.

[Mot Dang]

Theoretically, yes, for those who are presently in school. But in some communities there are no teachers who can speak or read English. And that is the situation today. For Thai adults, the older they are, the less exposure to English they likely had during their school days.

Another factor is educational attainment more broadly. Today, Thai students are staying in school longer. But 30 or 40 years ago,many never got beyond elementary school, if indeed they completed that.

You are correct in all the points you have raised. I have a nearly 12 yo daughter in school located in Chumpon. She has been learning English since last year, but I was not happy with her progression so went to see her teacher. The teacher could barely speak English herself, and became very arrogant when I asked questions about the curriculum. My daughter has a cousin , same age but goes to another school in the Chumpon district, and has also being taught for again about 18 months. She is doing excellent I believe the two girls try hard (and study together) and are of equal intelligence. Her teacher is very different, being able to converse very well, and presents herself as a good teacher.

I puzzled on this for a while. Why does the school tolerate such a mediocre teacher ? The answer I found was of course the holey BAHT. Don't believe it when you hear the government say all state schools are equal. My wife's sister pays extra to get the good teacher. These schools are within 10 km of each other and are attended by the same socio-group. I.e. rubber and oil plantation folk.

On your last point, my wife in Chumpon at 41 yo did not go to school at all, but through determination now speaks excellent English and is relatively good at math. But she does suffer from (that unavoidable condition), Thai logic. 8-)

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mot Dang

[Baerboxer]

I know PhD students who study in English, passed Master's degrees in Australia and the USA but are unable to hold a basic conversation in English. I corrected a Master's dissertation for one Thai as the English language level was deemed unacceptable. Nice guy, again not able to hold a conversation in English. He had previously passed a Master's at an Australian University!

Most Thais who I know over the last 25 years are not confident to speak English - where ever they live. Once back in Thailand, they just stop using it unless forced to. Not all - probably 10% are good, and like using it.

Most teachers I've met, and I know a lot as my wife is a teacher, can't really speak English. A sizable portion speak basic English, will say a standard comment then when replied to just look confused. It's English parrot fashion and scripted - not fluent understanding.

A lot of the English language teachers now are Filipinos. Some are good, a few very good but many hardly able to converse themselves. The kids pick up their strong accents and total use of American English. There again, they get paid lower than their Thai peers.

My 8 year old speaks better English than several of the Filipino teachers at her school. She's in the bi-lingual program which does have very good teachers from the US and UK. Not just knowledgeable on their subject, but competent professional teachers. Interestingly, they are always the most popular ones with the kids too.

[smotherb]

Theoretically, yes, for those who are presently in school. But in some communities there are no teachers who can speak or read English. And that is the situation today. For Thai adults, the older they are, the less exposure to English they likely had during their school days.

Another factor is educational attainment more broadly. Today, Thai students are staying in school longer. But 30 or 40 years ago,many never got beyond elementary school, if indeed they completed that.

Great reasons, but that still doesn't explain why the locals in neighboring countries, which have the same limitations, speak better English. Have you spoken to locals in Vietnam or Cambodia? To me, more locals from varied walks of life in both countries speak better English than do their counterpart Thais.

According to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailand-ranks-near-bottom-in-English-proficiency--30218895.html, "All over Asia, Thailand's ranking is only above Kazakhstan. Leading the regional league is Malaysia with a score of 58.99 score, followed by Singapore. The others - India, Hong Kong, South Korea, Indonesia, Japan, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Taiwan and China - are all over 50 points, while Thailand gained only 44.44."

I do try to converse with all levels of people wherever I go--service people in restaurants, hotels, bars, taxis, etc; professional people at banks, government offices, travel agencies, business associates, etc. I have recently travelled in Cambodia and Vietnam. In both countries, it was common for service people, especially taxi drivers, to speak at least some English. In Vietnam, I talked with a young girl who sold postcards--granted a tourist-related occupation--she even used proper verb tenses and proper plurals and possessives; many TV posters have trouble doing those things. I asked her where she learned English, in school was her answer. She said she had been selling post cards for only a week to help support her family--yeah, yeah, I know, a good story often told by bar girls, but I like good stories, especially when told in proper English by a pretty girl.

I recently took a taxi from Phuket airport--one would think the drivers there should speak some English--the taxi driver actually stopped to have another taxi driver ask where we wanted to go. When I asked if our driver understood tong pai, leo sai and leo qua, the English-speaking driver told him to follow our directions.

In Cambodia, I had to change taxis on the road from Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville--some 250km. The PP taxi broke down and I flagged a local taxi about 150km from PP. He spoke tolerable English, even made small talk, so we stopped to have a beer. A waitress in that restaurant in the middle of nowhere Cambodia spoke good English--try that in nowhere Thailand.

I think the Thais have a false sense of pride associated with their language--somewhat akin to the lack of English spoken in France, even by English-speaking Frenchmen. I guess they feel their culture and national identity will suffer if they abandon--speak English--their language for another. They apparently do not see the need for learning English or any other language widely used in the world--maybe the reality of the need to speak another language will surface with ASEAN interaction.

[steven100]

Do Thais really have to learn English in school?

Yes they do .... english is the international language used globally and if young thai graduates want to get ahead then english is a must ...

tourism requires english

everyday communication with foreigners

jobs overseas

management positions if dealing with international clients

banking staff deal with many expats in english

If Thailand doesn't want to be left behind .... then it needs to enforce english in the curriculum.

[thaibeachlovers]

Thai children are able to learn conversational English. I know because I visited an after school English class in the village, so it's not down to their inability to learn that is the problem.

[The Beguiled]

The present Thai Government need to take a good look at how English is taught to disabled Thai students by the Father Ray Foundation at Pattaya. Here is a quotation from their June 2015 newsletter.

"In March we came to the end of another school year and we said farewell to a group of students from the Vocational School for People with Disabilities. Thirty four graduated, including eight who have spent the past two years learning English.

These eight young adults, two male and six female, came from provinces all over the country, from Nong Bua Lamphu in the north east to Songkhla in the south and several in between. Most could speak no English before arriving in Pattaya, but now they are fluent and all have jobs to go to.

Most of the jobs for our graduating students were found through our Job Placement Agency, something most people don't know anything about".

Why can this organisation be successful when the whole of Thailand's government school systems seems to fail?

Amazing Thailand

[Saan]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

I had Dutch, French, English and German in high school, still read books in each and every language, the writers language.

You are a very lucky man, I guess you were at school in Belgium, as French, Flemish and German are all spoken in Belgium. Also if you were in Belgium you would have seen TV in all those languages. I saw more programmes in English on TV in Laos in one night than I've seen in Thailand in nearly 2 years. I mean I've even had to watch "Top Gear" dubbed in Thai. I think as long as they blanket dub non-Thai programmes then the kids will struggle. Heck there are enough channels to choose from, so many in fact there could be 2 or 3 in each important language.

In Britain we have enough problems trying to understand each others accent, especially the Scots & Welsh. And then of course the English have always been lazy in learning anybody else's language, but then again why should we as over the last 200 years we fought and beat them all !!!!!!!!! please just joking.

I find most of the Scots and Welsh easier to understand than a lot Geordies or Scousers. Some of the old folks in Somerset have accents you have to cut your way through - or is it the scrumpy.

[The Beguiled]

Theoretically, yes, for those who are presently in school. But in some communities there are no teachers who can speak or read English. And that is the situation today. For Thai adults, the older they are, the less exposure to English they likely had during their school days.

Another factor is educational attainment more broadly. Today, Thai students are staying in school longer. But 30 or 40 years ago,many never got beyond elementary school, if indeed they completed that.

Great reasons, but that still doesn't explain why the locals in neighboring countries, which have the same limitations, speak better English. Have you spoken to locals in Vietnam or Cambodia? To me, more locals from varied walks of life in both countries speak better English than do their counterpart Thais.

According to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailand-ranks-near-bottom-in-English-proficiency--30218895.html, "All over Asia, Thailand's ranking is only above Kazakhstan. Leading the regional league is Malaysia with a score of 58.99 score, followed by Singapore. The others - India, Hong Kong, South Korea, Indonesia, Japan, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Taiwan and China - are all over 50 points, while Thailand gained only 44.44."

I do try to converse with all levels of people wherever I go--service people in restaurants, hotels, bars, taxis, etc; professional people at banks, government offices, travel agencies, business associates, etc. I have recently travelled in Cambodia and Vietnam. In both countries, it was common for service people, especially taxi drivers, to speak at least some English. In Vietnam, I talked with a young girl who sold postcards--granted a tourist-related occupation--she even used proper verb tenses and proper plurals and possessives; many TV posters have trouble doing those things. I asked her where she learned English, in school was her answer. She said she had been selling post cards for only a week to help support her family--yeah, yeah, I know, a good story often told by bar girls, but I like good stories, especially when told in proper English by a pretty girl.

I recently took a taxi from Phuket airport--one would think the drivers there should speak some English--the taxi driver actually stopped to have another taxi driver ask where we wanted to go. When I asked if our driver understood tong pai, leo sai and leo qua, the English-speaking driver told him to follow our directions.

In Cambodia, I had to change taxis on the road from Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville--some 250km. The PP taxi broke down and I flagged a local taxi about 150km from PP. He spoke tolerable English, even made small talk, so we stopped to have a beer. A waitress in that restaurant in the middle of nowhere Cambodia spoke good English--try that in nowhere Thailand.

I think the Thais have a false sense of pride associated with their language--somewhat akin to the lack of English spoken in France, even by English-speaking Frenchmen. I guess they feel their culture and national identity will suffer if they abandon--speak English--their language for another. They apparently do not see the need for learning English or any other language widely used in the world--maybe the reality of the need to speak another language will surface with ASEAN interaction.

You are right on the money "smotherb". I too have traveled through S.E.Asia and on my first trip to Cambodia from Thailand I was blown away buy the number of Cambodian people that I met who could converse in English, enough to catch a taxi; order a meal at a small roadside eatery; etc.

I believe that one of the reasons Thai's don't really accept learning English comes from their history where Thai's is deemed to be more superior to their neighbours.

Example is when you are in a western country and you meet a person that looks to be from Yhailand/Cambodia/Lao and you ask them where are they from, most say Thailand and when you ask further what part of Thailand, you are given their town and if you know enough about the boarders of Thailand you find that these people are usually from the Cambodian; Laos or from Myanmar of the boarder of Thailand!

These people say Thailand because it is a more advanced and wealthier country than theirs.

Amazing Thailand

[maderaroja]

same as history,mathematics,physics,chemistry and certainly geography....

Basically, the teachers are not worth their salt.

[Saan]

The biggest slice of the 2015 Thai budget is going into education. The schools will now focus on giving Thai history and culture more emphasis, classes in "moral soundness and virtues" will be introduced.

This will really drag them into the 20 (twentieth) century. After all the PM went through a similar system introduced by another junta and we can all see or listen to the results.

If Thainess prevails as the basis of their education system Thailand must fall behind most ASEAN countries.

It is not something I want to see.

[lostoday]

same as history,mathematics,physics,chemistry and certainly geography....

Basically, the teachers are not worth their salt.

I'd go up a rung and say administrators. When the football team loses you don't fire all the players now do you?

[smotherb]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

Most French do. I did in high school and college. I even used it in France, Vietnam, Cambodia, Loas and Lebanon. Actually, knowledge of French helped me in France on several occaisions. The French are really pleasant, when you speak their language. When my wife was pregnant with our son, we drove into a small village outside Lyon late one night. An old woman opened up her inn and fixed us dinner when I explained to her in French that we had gotten lost and my wife was pregnant, tired, and hungry. I waited there for almost a week, but no three wise men showed.

[smotherb]

same as history,mathematics,physics,chemistry and certainly geography....

Basically, the teachers are not worth their salt.

I'd go up a rung and say administrators. When the football team loses you don't fire all the players now do you?

Your analogy is wrong. When comparing a football team and a school, the players are synonymous with the students, not the teachers. However, the teachers are synonymous with the coaches, and you should think about firing the coaches.

[lostoday]

same as history,mathematics,physics,chemistry and certainly geography....

Basically, the teachers are not worth their salt.

I'd go up a rung and say administrators. When the football team loses you don't fire all the players now do you?

Your analogy is wrong. When comparing a football team and a school, the players are synonymous with the students, not the teachers. However, the teachers are synonymous with the coaches, and you should think about firing the coaches.

Not so. Coaches are usually ex players or sometimes even current players. Administrators, teachers and students. Coaches, players and spectators.

Or in the army. Generals, NCO's and soldiers. If the battle goes bad you don't change all the soldiers you simply get another general.

[Shaunduhpostman]

Having taught esl for sixteen years and gotten fluent in two foreign languages (Thai and Spanish) and studied a few others half-heartedly (Korean and Chinese), it seems to me that it boils down to a student's interest and motivation not to mention situation ie, is there a need and/or opportunities to practice. Even with no teacher at all, if one has many chances to try and speak and listen and has the desire, discipline, focus and resources such as good books and tapes etc one can learn regardless of there being no good teacher around.

For some, I think, classroom language learning can even be a hinderance and demotivational, particularly if one is a slow learner or not as fast to catch on as other students, it can be too demoralizing and one develops the notion that you aren't any good. It is in my case, I am slow and I don't care for classroom pecking orders which seem more intense in language classes. Students are continually having to open up and be vulnerable and often fail at speaking and others including many teachers will use that to subtly assert superiority.

[masuk]

I rarely meet a Thai that speaks English ( I don't live in a tourist area ), so either they don't have to learn it in school, or their teachers are rubbish.

I had heard that it was supposed to be taught in school.

That's true. But I rarely come across foreigners that speak Thai neither despite living here. (I'm not better to be honest)

Well, I'm one of those foreigners WHO does not speak Thai. I found Malay/Indonesian so much easier, as I can read their alphabet!!

I've found it more important to help my Thai friend improve his English so that he can get a decent job in the future, rather than waste his time trying to stuff another language between my ears.

[Thunderbirds20]

they usually have a Thai person teaching then English, so they learn Thai english which does not get then far, ..... centun instead of central as an example. Unless you know how Thais speak english,you do not understand them. They never get to use it and when they do, they are not understood, so they all hate to learn English

[smotherb]

smotherb said, “Your analogy is wrong. When comparing a football team and a school, the players are synonymous with the students, not the teachers. However, the teachers are synonymous with the coaches, and you should think about firing the coaches.”

lostoday said, “Not so. Coaches are usually ex players or sometimes even current players. Administrators, teachers and students. Coaches, players and spectators. Or in the army. Generals, NCO's and soldiers. If the battle goes bad you don't change all the soldiers you simply get another general.”

Are you so lost every day? Did you ever stop to think that teachers are usually ex-students or sometimes even current students? That coaches, players and spectators is wrong, it should be management, coaches, players. Spectators, are not part of the team heirarchy and should not be fired because the team does badly. In this case, spectators may be synonymous with the general public. Or, that there are a few officers between generals and NCOs? If a battle goes badly, you frequently have to get new soldiers.

However, those are not the issue. An analogy compares the relationships between two or more sets of things. In this case, team : players :: school : students, or team : coaches :: school : teachers, or team : management :: school : administrators.

[little mary sunshine]

Of course it's the education system employing some of

The so called English Teachers; they have some sort

of degree, in something, and feel they are capable of

teaching English. Don't speak Thai and very poor

Grasp of the English language ...And you expect the

students to learn....so sad.

[MrBrad]

As a rule, the student will not learn more than the teacher knows, unless the student is very motivated to do extra work--real work--on the computer or studying books outside of school. This is frightening given that--as previously noted many times by others here--the teachers cannot carry on a conversation in English.

Every kid can learn to speak English, unless he or she has a mental or physical disability that hinders language. Many of us can find a 3-year-old kid, Thai or not, who can ask for, demand, agree with, and simply just talk about almost anything that pleases him or her. [i'd love to be able to speak Thai like a 3-year-old Thai kid (if I didn't have to work so hard at it).] Politics and philosophy are out of the question, but everyday needs can be communicated quickly and adequately.

It doesn't take 12 years to speak English! 6 months of concentrated--but not intensive--study would have everyone enjoying basic communication. 2 or 3 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week for even three or four weeks would change everything. The kids would surely know more than 99% of the teachers.

And there's the problem. Loss of face. Besides, a kid who's really advanced in English cannot be bumped up to study English with a higher level of students; he or she is stuck in a classroom with all the rest, and worst of all, with curricula and a teacher that are not fit for language learning.

It is really sad that these kids' lives are so wasted, whether with acquiring a foreign language or knowledge in any other area. I don't have any false hope for great changes, regardless of the proclamations coming out of the mouths of those who claim to be in control.

[lostoday]

smotherb said, “Your analogy is wrong. When comparing a football team and a school, the players are synonymous with the students, not the teachers. However, the teachers are synonymous with the coaches, and you should think about firing the coaches.”

lostoday said, “Not so. Coaches are usually ex players or sometimes even current players. Administrators, teachers and students. Coaches, players and spectators. Or in the army. Generals, NCO's and soldiers. If the battle goes bad you don't change all the soldiers you simply get another general.”

Are you so lost every day? Did you ever stop to think that teachers are usually ex-students or sometimes even current students? That coaches, players and spectators is wrong, it should be management, coaches, players. Spectators, are not part of the team heirarchy and should not be fired because the team does badly. In this case, spectators may be synonymous with the general public. Or, that there are a few officers between generals and NCOs? If a battle goes badly, you frequently have to get new soldiers.

However, those are not the issue. An analogy compares the relationships between two or more sets of things. In this case, team : players :: school : students, or team : coaches :: school : teachers, or team : management :: school : administrators.

I don't have to insult you to make a point. You have one boss and thousands of middle management. It is not realistic when making a change to fire the thousands of middle management. BTW you left off the General and Soldiers analogy.

Clearly any rational person would opt to change the boss, PM or leader rather than the all the workers/bureaucracy. I am proposing a reasonable change that could reasonably be accomplished that would drastically change the education standards while you on the other hand would destroy the education system and the economy of Thailand by firing all the teachers.

Edited June 29, 2015 by lostoday

[mick01827]

Students are taught very basic stuff....

This is a book, this is a pencil, my name is........you get the idea but the children are very shy to practice their English in case they make mistakes, I learn thai on a one to one basis with a qualified teacher every time I'm in Thailand and sometimes I feel shy to use what I've learnt in case I get it wrong.

[duanebigsby]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

Canadians.

French is mandatory for us even though I lived 5000 kilometres from Quebec.

I took 8 years of it, didn't care for it, did just enough to pass, and don't speak a word of it now.

I understand how many Thai kids don't learn English.

[duanebigsby]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

I had Dutch, French, English and German in high school, still read books in each and every language, the writers language.

The Dutch school system must have fantastic language programs because every Dutch person I've met is a polyglot.

The Thais should hire some Dutch people to help reform English training here.