Koh Tao: Men accused of killing Brit backpackers plead with victims' families for justice

boomerangutang · July 3, 2015

Money dynamics in a nutshell: The prosecution, who is paid by the same people (taxpayers) as the cops, have deep pockets. Essentially unlimited funding. Even the self-appointed PM (also paid by taxpayers) has weighed in, with his opinions. Does anyone think the prosecution will ever be low on funds?

In contrast, the defense is working pro-bono and has limited funds. Some things they want to do (re-examine evidence, for example) - they may not be able to afford.

Every indication since the 2nd RTP team took over in early Oct '14, is that Thai officialdom want the B2 to be found guilty. To a man, they are all focused on that eventuality. Excepting the silly press event to test NS's DNA (no match, what a surprise!) - the RTP haven't lifted a finder to look for any evidence which may implicate anyone other than the two they're focused on. As for former prime suspects? Fogedabowdit, they were let off easier than jaywalking cop - never to be looked at again.

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

SICK, we can all see how you regard the defense and the rights of the accused. Have you noticed the accounts that are regularly published by Andy Hall on the spending of the funds

No! I have seen that. Seems to me this is as good as place as any for you to Link that for all of us to see.

Quite surprised he has time for that, considering he is fighting his own prosecution case in Thailand right now.

Seems to me you can find your own links so long as it fits with your bizarre opinions but fail to find anything else. If your so surprised Andy has time to fight for justice on the behalf of other people when he himself is the victim of persecution by draconian libel laws in Thailand then why not email him and ask him, his contact details are widely available on the internet, go on give it a try. Heres your starter for 10:

For further enquiries on the Koh Tao murder case or MWRN’s fundraiser, please contact:

1. Andy Hall MWRN International Affairs Advisor

[email protected] +66(0)846 119209 (English/Thai)

2. Nakhon Chompuchat Head Koh Tao Case Defence Lawyer

[email protected] +66(0)818 473086 (English/Thai)

3. Ko Sein Htay MWRN President

[email protected] +95(0)949278500 / +66 (0)94 679 2478 (Myanmar/Thai)

All funds raised have been deposited into a Thai bank account specifically and jointly opened for the case by Andy Hall and Nakhon Chompuchat, the two main advisors to MWRN’s fund:

Account Name: Mr. Andrew Hall and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat;

Account Number: 405-870484-8;

Bank: Siam Commercial Bank Public Company Ltd; Bank Branch: 5280 Terminal 21;

Bank SWIFT code: SICOTHBK).

Summary reports of spending and case assistance updates are reviewable by all, available on request and are published regularly on MWRN’s Facebook site and other social media.

It was you who mentioned to me about having seen the regular published fund spending by Andy Hall in this case, in which I replied honestly and told I never have. So assumed you had, to make such a bold statement here, and thus could easily provide the Link you saw as proof.

But it appears I was fooled again by you and more Bla!Bla!Bla! as you never saw anything.

boomerangutang · July 3, 2015

As far as I know, the victims' families made one public statement in December. One member of one family claimed to be speaking for all members of both families. We're all familiar with families, and how differing opinions are part of any family. Don't be surprised when other members of the victims' famlies speak up, and we find they don't agree with what the RTP wants everyone to think.

sambum · July 3, 2015

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?

First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

No, you have! "Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?" This is not the USA, and I doubt if the procedure that you are describing would be followed religiously here in Thailand.

The reason why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men? (Or if you prefer, "Why would someone.......etc") At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by one of your 2 or 3 followers - MONEY sounds like a strong enough contender! Also the fact that huge amounts of FACE are obviously at stake - especially in the light of a very high ranking Police Officer saying "No Thai could do this" , hence, possibly, "Find somebody to blame, but make sure they're not Thai" And the ARROGANCE of being totally convinced of their ability to solve the crime on their own without any outside help, hence the "invitation" to the British Police to "observe" only.

I believe Wimbledon is on if you are feeling up to it!

stephenterry · July 3, 2015

You prove I'm wrong. Send me the link that the rtp sent anything to Singapore. You won't find it.

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

Goldbuggy - you are full of fecal matter!!! I very much doubt that you have followed the case form the very first day, what in the contrary a good chunk of "official story doubters" did. You are like a carbon copy of that other brain deads back then, (JDinAsia, JohnThailandJohn) when the story was still "hot" repeating over and over again some brainless blahblah about the DNS samples not lying... Please do us the favor and get out of here so we can continue on working to find out what really happened and to make sure that no patsies will hang for what those indespicable mafia c__nts have done! Thank you!

So which side of the Fence do you sit on? Guilty or Innocent?

Look Man, there is no need for Name Calling. If you believe they are Innocent then fine. I happen to differ than you and believe they are Guilty. As you, I am entitled to my opinion. I am not part of the Legally Team as in the Lawyers, Prosecution, or a Judge. So I don't have to assume they are Innocent until they are proven guilty. I can assume anything I want. That is my right under the laws of Free Speech and this Site!

I have followed the case from front to back. Checking my early posts from many months ago will prove that. I have read all of what the Police have sent out to the media as Evidence thus far. I have read many Conspiracy Theories from several different people that these guy are scapegoats because of this or that. I have read them called Kids here, and many times Boys, and yet both are men over the age of 21. But now let me tell you what in all this time what I haven't read here.

I haven't read from anyone here even one shred of evidence, by some Link, to even suggest the 2 accused are Innocent. Not One shred even One Time! But I have read a preponderance of evidence here to suggest they are guilty.

So keep your opinion and let me keep mine, and try to be civilized.... will you?

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?

First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

No, you have! "Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?" This is not the USA, and I doubt if the procedure that you are describing would be followed religiously here in Thailand.

The reason why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men? (Or if you prefer, "Why would someone.......etc") At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by one of your 2 or 3 followers - MONEY sounds like a strong enough contender! Also the fact that huge amounts of FACE are obviously at stake - especially in the light of a very high ranking Police Officer saying "No Thai could do this" , hence, possibly, "Find somebody to blame, but make sure they're not Thai" And the ARROGANCE of being totally convinced of their ability to solve the crime on their own without any outside help, hence the "invitation" to the British Police to "observe" only.

I believe Wimbledon is on if you are feeling up to it!

Maybe the reason why someone would do this is because they found the guilty parties.

They singled out several people before they singled out the accused. Davids friend and travel companion, with the cut hand, for one. A Man who made a pass at Hannah at the bar, as another. A Foot Ball Club yet another. A Long Boat Operator as another. Even the Head Man's Son. But all of these men were cleared because the DNA did not match the sample they got from Hannah, they had a Good Alibi, or both.

It was much later when they learned of the 3 Migrant Workers sitting on the beach close to the crime scene late at night, and drinking. Yes 3 Migrant Workers. One was released as no evidence could be pinned on him to the crime. It was after further investigation when they found David's Cell phone with one of the accused. Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's. The cigarettes butts found at the crime scene that matched, and who knows what hasn't come out yet, or I missed. But lastly, and perhaps the most important, both of there DNA matched what was taken from Hannah.

Now put together these facts that these guy were placed at a time and place which makes them very close to being the last ones to see these Victims alive, if not the last one, which provided "Opportunity". Hannah was raped and Davids Cell phone went missing, which provided a "Motive". The believed the Hoe was the Murder Weapon, which they may or may not have gotten any evidence from, and they had the dead bodies.

Now I ask you honestly. If this happened in your country, what more would your Police Force need as evidence to arrest the accused? Baring not having a witness to this crime this case is about as open and shut as they come. But Hey! This is Thailand Right! Things are different here Right? Just another opportunity for the Thai Bashers to bash the Police Force here again. Right?

The Trail will start soon. We will see!

.

Sooo Upto Me · July 3, 2015

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy
In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?
Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

So where's your so called evidence that u think they are guilty?

As u hav been rambling on about this.

Sooo Upto Me · July 3, 2015

Goldbuggy post 121 in response to Berybert

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

Actually, it's pretty easy to provide false information in order to convict the B2. All the RTP need to do is to report that the DNA found on the victim exactly matches the B2 DNA. (Please note reports have stated there are over 300 DNA reports and 900 pages of evidence that the defence have to sift through).

As this 'evidence' has not been validated, verified, or independently tested it's not yet authenticated. While they don't have to permit the defence to carry out an authentication process, if this 'evidence' was 'perfect' there really wouldn't be any defence and 'everyone' would be satisfied. Logically, then, there must be a certain doubt regarding the veracity of this 'evidence', IMO. But this is Thailand - arrogance and face are prime motivators.

And, as the defence (if permitted) won't have time to carry out independent testing during this trial they cannot challenge it, only the collection and storage process. Thus the outcome of this trial could convict the B2, but (if necessary) there's the Appeals court, and eventually the Supreme court once the defence can authenticate the DNA evidence and can confirm or challenge the prosecution's assertions.

For anyone on here to jump to the opinion that the B2 are guilty re the DNA match, is only hearing the prosecution's assertions. As the defence has not released their case to accept or challenge this, it is premature, IMO. And that would apply to any other evidence provided by the prosecution.

Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?
First, a sample is taken from a Doctor as soon as the victim reports the rape, in the presence of 2 Police Officers, as witnesses. The sample is then sealed in a special container where if open the seal would show it was broken. It is then taken to the lab for analysis, with signatures all along the way. Do you mean to tell me that all this Lab Tech has to do now is throw that sample in the garbage, and just say there was no match, so end of story. No Way!

There would be several people involved in this analysis and many procedures they would have to follow, like the police had to, to keep it from being tampered with or producing falsified results. They would also have to produce the results, and thus why 3 papers to one analysis. Including the procedure they followed and witnesses, to sign on. The Lab Tech just doesn't get a piece of scrap paper and say the DNA Matches, and pass it on. He has to show proof of that under strict conditions and procedures.

But even under these strict conditions and procedures it is possible to falsify DNA Results. If intentional this carriers a very stiff penalty. So I question why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men, when they didn't have to arrest anyone. Which is the huge part you left out of my post.

It is not up to the Prosecutor or Legal Defense to verify anything. It is up to the Judges to decide if this is Evidence and whether or not they will allow it as such in their court, or if independent testing is going to be allowed or required. I highly doubt the Judges will ask for independent testing if the procedure where carried out correctly, and especially if independent testing was already carried out in Singapore.

You are watching too much TV Son.

No, you have! "Have you ever seen a Rape Kit in the USA and how they carry this out?" This is not the USA, and I doubt if the procedure that you are describing would be followed religiously here in Thailand.

The reason why someone would do this just to convict 2 innocent men? (Or if you prefer, "Why would someone.......etc") At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by one of your 2 or 3 followers - MONEY sounds like a strong enough contender! Also the fact that huge amounts of FACE are obviously at stake - especially in the light of a very high ranking Police Officer saying "No Thai could do this" , hence, possibly, "Find somebody to blame, but make sure they're not Thai" And the ARROGANCE of being totally convinced of their ability to solve the crime on their own without any outside help, hence the "invitation" to the British Police to "observe" only.

I believe Wimbledon is on if you are feeling up to it!

Maybe the reason why someone would do this is because they found the guilty parties.
They singled out several people before they singled out the accused. Davids friend and travel companion, with the cut hand, for one. A Man who made a pass at Hannah at the bar, as another. A Foot Ball Club yet another. A Long Boat Operator as another. Even the Head Man's Son. But all of these men were cleared because the DNA did not match the sample they got from Hannah, they had a Good Alibi, or both.

It was much later when they learned of the 3 Migrant Workers sitting on the beach close to the crime scene late at night, and drinking. Yes 3 Migrant Workers. One was released as no evidence could be pinned on him to the crime. It was after further investigation when they found David's Cell phone with one of the accused. Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's. The cigarettes butts found at the crime scene that matched, and who knows what hasn't come out yet, or I missed. But lastly, and perhaps the most important, both of there DNA matched what was taken from Hannah.

Now put together these facts that these guy were placed at a time and place which makes them very close to being the last ones to see these Victims alive, if not the last one, which provided "Opportunity". Hannah was raped and Davids Cell phone went missing, which provided a "Motive". The believed the Hoe was the Murder Weapon, which they may or may not have gotten any evidence from, and they had the dead bodies.

Now I ask you honestly. If this happened in your country, what more would your Police Force need as evidence to arrest the accused? Baring not having a witness to this crime this case is about as open and shut as they come. But Hey! This is Thailand Right! Things are different here Right? Just another opportunity for the Thai Bashers to bash the Police Force here again. Right?

The Trail will start soon. We will see!

.

Wot TRAIl is this then?

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

You prove I'm wrong. Send me the link that the rtp sent anything to Singapore. You won't find it.

Read my post again and then yours.

I said that the Police said they were thinking of sending the DNA Samples to Singapore, but never confirmed after that if they did or did not. You said they did not, and for me to forget it.

Here is the Link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763494-special-report-investigation-into-koh-tao-murders-seriously-flawed/

But it really doesn't matter if they sent it or not as they don't need that to get a conviction in Thailand. Just like they don't in the USA, UK, or Canada.

Sooo Upto Me · July 3, 2015

Very Good Point!

I wonder how much of this money actually goes to the accused and their families? Would zero be close I wonder?

It reminds me of all those Fake Evangelists we used to see all the time on TV asking for money, when their net worth was in the Millions of Dollars. But Hey! If you got naive people you can milk, then you milk them for all the are worth. Right?

Hell, if I was one of the lawyers in this case and looking at a huge pay check each week, I might even be tempted and

want to keep this Gravy Train a Rolling. Like telling the accused to plead Not Guilty, by telling them the Prosecutions doesn't have a case against them. Then, when they found guilty and given the Death Sentence I could really Milk these Bleeding Hearts for all they are worth, on an appeal, which could last many years.

I mean in a land where people here think all the Police are corrupt, and would plant evidence, and the Lab Analysis is falsified to make the Police's Case, where Money Talks, and you can buy yourself out of anything, then surely there must be plenty of Corrupt Lawyers here as well to. So maybe the guys are right, and that someone is making a

lot of money off this case. It is just that it isn't the people they think it is.

SICK, we can all see how you regard the defense and the rights of the accused. Have you noticed the accounts that are regularly published by Andy Hall on the spending of the funds

No! I have seen that. Seems to me this is as good as place as any for you to Link that for all of us to see.
Quite surprised he has time for that, considering he is fighting his own prosecution case in Thailand right now.

Seems to me you can find your own links so long as it fits with your bizarre opinions but fail to find anything else. If your so surprised Andy has time to fight for justice on the behalf of other people when he himself is the victim of persecution by draconian libel laws in Thailand then why not email him and ask him, his contact details are widely available on the internet, go on give it a try. Heres your starter for 10:

For further enquiries on the Koh Tao murder case or MWRNs fundraiser, please contact:

1. Andy Hall MWRN International Affairs Advisor

[email protected] +66(0)846 119209 (English/Thai)

2. Nakhon Chompuchat Head Koh Tao Case Defence Lawyer

[email protected] +66(0)818 473086 (English/Thai)

3. Ko Sein Htay MWRN President

[email protected] +95(0)949278500 / +66 (0)94 679 2478 (Myanmar/Thai)

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Dont worry i think Goldbuggy is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Pepperoni short of a pizza me thinks. Only my opinion of course.

stephenterry · July 3, 2015

You prove I'm wrong. Send me the link that the rtp sent anything to Singapore. You won't find it.

Read my post again and then yours.

I said that the Police said they were thinking of sending the DNA Samples to Singapore, but never confirmed after that if they did or did not. You said they did not, and for me to forget it.

Here is the Link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763494-special-report-investigation-into-koh-tao-murders-seriously-flawed/

But it really doesn't matter if they sent it or not as they don't need that to get a conviction in Thailand. Just like they don't in the USA, UK, or Canada.

Well, actually it does. A Singapore report would be more credible than anything that the RTP could produce. And they can't because their technology is far behind. But most importantly, they cannot lose face by admitting that because they know everything there is to know about everything. One of the historical effects of never being colonised. Arrogance in spades amongst the elite.

Thus all the talk about they would do this and do that never materialised for the above reasons. Once the defence denounce the DNA findings and custody trail (if any), possibly with the testimony of Ms Porntip, and provide a scenario that introduces reasonable doubt, it would be up to the judge whether or not the 'evidence' is accepted.

One thing that puzzles me about any posters who believe the B2 are guilty, is that the profile of the B2 (and their physical stature of being under 5 feet) and their subsequent actions of going into work the next day, don't fit with a frenzied and horrific attack on both of the victims, one of whom is considerably larger and with none of his DNA on the hoe, it beggars belief. That, for me, is why I consider them innocent.

stephenterry · July 3, 2015

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy
In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?

Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

I take it you haven't watched the re-enactment. It's on video, if you care to take a look. On a site that the moderators don't let us link to. As to police taking bribes being hearsay, and not tampering with a taxi driver to give evidence - come on, man, what planet are you from? Zogg?

The crime scene was compromised. That's factual, and a legal argument that any evidence collected is also compromised.

Smurkster · July 3, 2015

someone said something to the effect of "why would a Thai who possibly knew the truth have any reason to tell it, especially given that 2 Burmese patsies had already been made"....well again, that is nothing but an indictment on the National Character of Thailand now does it?

boomerangutang · July 3, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

But lastly, and perhaps the most important, both of there DNA matched what was taken from Hannah.

It's already been shown how easy it would be to alter the labeling of the DNA - or otherwise change the DNA trail. It would only take one or two top brass, and everyone below them either wouldn't know it was altered, and/or would be duty bound to not counter their superiors. Either way, they would have to echo their superiors. To not do so would be professional suicide or worse.

That's why authorities are so intent on blocking any independent scrutiny of anything to do with DNA. They won't even allow the Brits to see Nomsod's DNA. ....and probably are providing as little as possible to the British Coroner.

.... Hannah was raped and Davids Cell phone went missing, which provided a "Motive".

That doesn't make sense. How does a missing cell phone provide motive? Did the two pint-sized Burmese overpower and brutally kill two healthy farang, one of whom was twice their size - because they may have stolen a cell phone?

IslandLover · July 3, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

He's also claiming that some man made a pass at Hannah in the bar. I'd like to know where that information came from too.

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

Here is what the Victims Families have to say about this back in December 26th, 2014, and there last statement to the Press.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-murders-trial-begins-4875207

I think it is pretty clear on what they think about the accused and why.

GOLDBUGGY · July 3, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

He's also claiming that some man made a pass at Hannah in the bar. I'd like to know where that information came from too.

The information came from here. But there are other sources as I have seen this in a few places. You just need to learn how to look for yourself.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

cookee68 · July 3, 2015

Dead men tell no tales.

One wonders what the prosecutor knew.

cookee68 · July 3, 2015

Dead men tell no tales.

One wonders what the prosecutor knew.

Exactly, it would have been easier to have had them killed in jail and that would have been that, they are confident on the evidence they have, and the evidence that the lawyers have not seen yet, many are all to eager to say they are innocent, because the BIB tried to fabricate a few facts, but maybe, yes maybe, they are guilty, the facts and proof they seem to have suggests that, so I will stick to what is known, than to what people speculate, or believe, nothing has proved them innocent of this crime yet, no witnesses, only in a story, no evidence they did not do it, so that is me on this

AleG · July 3, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

But lastly, and perhaps the most important, both of there DNA matched what was taken from Hannah.

It's already been shown how easy it would be to alter the labeling of the DNA - or otherwise change the DNA trail. It would only take one or two top brass, and everyone below them either wouldn't know it was altered, and/or would be duty bound to not counter their superiors. Either way, they would have to echo their superiors. To not do so would be professional suicide or worse.

That's why authorities are so intent on blocking any independent scrutiny of anything to do with DNA. They won't even allow the Brits to see Nomsod's DNA. ....and probably are providing as little as possible to the British Coroner.

.... Hannah was raped and Davids Cell phone went missing, which provided a "Motive".

That doesn't make sense. How does a missing cell phone provide motive? Did the two pint-sized Burmese overpower and brutally kill two healthy farang, one of whom was twice their size - because they may have stolen a cell phone?

For the umpteen time, your "easy way" to tamper with the DNA results involves every person from your imaginary top brass behind the whole conspiracy down to the last lab technician that handled the samples and includes UK authorities.

Your facile explanations may be enough for you, but they carry no weigh, least of all because you provide zero evidence or substantiation for them.

As Christopher Hitchens said, "that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence", so you have shown nothing with any relation to factual reality.

GOLDBUGGY · July 4, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

But lastly, and perhaps the most important, both of there DNA matched what was taken from Hannah.

It's already been shown how easy it would be to alter the labeling of the DNA - or otherwise change the DNA trail. It would only take one or two top brass, and everyone below them either wouldn't know it was altered, and/or would be duty bound to not counter their superiors. Either way, they would have to echo their superiors. To not do so would be professional suicide or worse.

That's why authorities are so intent on blocking any independent scrutiny of anything to do with DNA. They won't even allow the Brits to see Nomsod's DNA. ....and probably are providing as little as possible to the British Coroner.

.... Hannah was raped and Davids Cell phone went missing, which provided a "Motive".

That doesn't make sense. How does a missing cell phone provide motive? Did the two pint-sized Burmese overpower and brutally kill two healthy farang, one of whom was twice their size - because they may have stolen a cell phone?

DNA Evidence is held in a sealed container, or otherwise it could not be used as Evidence in a Court of Law. Once it is open the seal is broken and can not be replace. So it is not so easy as taking it out of an Empty Beer Bottle, and putting something else in its place, as you claim. There has to be some checks and balances in place otherwise, as you said, it could easily be tampered with and thus the integrity of Evidence is lost. But No! I am not going to dig this information up for you. Find this yourself.

But I have no problem with the Defense running a separate DNA Sample from an Independent Credible Source, nor have I ever said so. In fact I hope they do. As I know that tampering with Evidence is a very serious offence which gives you a Mandatory Jail Sentence and a loss of your career. In my book a very foolish thing to try and do. Especially when it can be re-sampled by somebody else at any time.

The Blood Stained Shirt (which was actually short pants) belongs to one of the accused. It was found, along with David's Cell Phone when the Police made a house search of the accused. Other people have mentioned that here as well. I am being chased around now here like a Dog running for a Ball by others, to prove by Link everything I say, and to be quite honest I am sick of that. Especially when none of them have provided a Link of anything they said.

I never said the Cell phone was the Motive for killing these 2 People. I love how you guys who try to quote someone, but yet leave out the important parts. I said Rape, and the Cell Phone (Theft) was the Motive. The primary Motive obviously was Rape. But Hell, if you can make a few extra Buck stealing a Cell Phone, then why not? They didn't take Hannah's Cell Phone as it wasn't their at the time.

Can 2 Short Burmese overpower a man twice there size? Can 1 Short Burmese overpower you if you are standing butt naked while he is coming at you with a Garden Hoe, and your girlfriend is being held at knife point, begging you to stop fighting or else he will kill her? Who knows what went on there and how it happened, except the killers? He may have had a Gun for all we know. Although I doubt he needed one.

So to answer your question it is "Yes". Two Pint-sized Burmese with weapons can easily overcome a naked man with no weapon, regardless of his size. David Miller was not a Kung <deleted> Expert. Just a Normal Man with a few School Yard Fights under his belt. He was not a violent person nor did he have a history of violence. He was found with defensive wounds to his arms and body.

I am surprised you did not ask about "Opportunity" so thinking ahead I will answer that for you as well right now. Under a sworn and written testimony, David's Friend and roommate at the time, swore that David left there rented flat at 1 am after a night out with friends. It is also known that he soon met up with Hannah then, and shortly afterwards they wondered down to the beach. There dead bodies where found that morning at 6 am, so sometime between 1 am and 6 am they were murdered.

Now according to the 3rd Burmese Man, who was also down at the beach with the 2 accused, he said in a sworn statement that he left his friends at 1 am. He said he wanted to go visit his Girlfriend while they wanted to stay on the beach and drink some more. His story was verified with an alibi and when his DNA didn't match he was released. He will more likely be brought back as a Witness for the Prosecution, or at least this was mentioned.

So since David and Hannah wondered down to this secluded spot on the beach around that time after the 3rd Burmese Man left, the 2 accused has had to have seen them go there, as they had to have walked right past them. How long would you stay their with a woman you are not supposed to be with making naughty, when both have a B.F./G.F. back home. Can we say 1 hour or perhaps 2 hours at the most?

Either way, David was naked when he was killed, and I don't know about the rest of you guys, or how you feel, but as a man and if I was making out in a public place, the old shorts go back on right away and afterwards. So my guess is that they were both killed within that hour. So around 2 am if they got there at 1 am, or 3 am if they got there at 2 am.

This places the accused to be the near or the last ones to see this couple go to this secluded spot, and since the did not see anyone else go there, this places them as either the near or the last ones to see them alive. Since they did not see anyone else at the beach during this time, and this place was secluded and hidden away so that nobody could see from a distance, then in all likelihood they were the only ones who knew they went their.

It is interesting to note that from their Confessions (or Forced Confessions if you prefer) that they claim to have seen David and Hannah going there. That they felt there were up to something. So they decide to sneak up on them to see what they were doing for fun. That when they saw them in the act, they got worked up, and then decided they want a piece of this action to. The rest is history now.

Forced Confession or not, this seems to make good logical sense and fits into the time line perfectly. A few Beers for guys this small can also put them over the deep end very quickly and out of there not normal state of mind. Who else could have seen them go their when there was nobody else on the beach thus nobody following them? The Man in the Moon?

It should also be noted that the 2 accused were held along with 4 other Burmese Guys at first for questioning and Sampling, as by then the DNA Samples proved that the culprits were Asian. But all 6 of them were let go due to a lack of evidence. It was only after the DNA Sample came back with a match that these 2 were arrested and charged. Firstly for Immigration Charges, which doesn't require the presents of a lawyer, and later for the crime of Rape and Murder, when more evidence cold be gathered.

They may have been threatened by the Police, as I don't know. I do know the an investigation was asked to be launched into this matter. What I do know for sure is that they did not look beat up when they were reenacting the crime. If my life was threaten I would take my chances, as I know I still wouldn't admit to a crime that I did not do, which carries the death penalty. I would rather they ended it now, then show my body and explain later what happened to me.

Personally I hope they have a good Defenses Team, as they are going to need one, and they get to present their evidence of innocents, if they have any. I won't support them financially to do this though, and for my own personal reasons. If I was to give I would rather give to the Families of the Victims in this case, to come here for the trial and seek justice for their lost and Brutally Murdered Children. To me they are the ones who will always suffer the greatest loss.

.

GOLDBUGGY · July 4, 2015

You prove I'm wrong. Send me the link that the rtp sent anything to Singapore. You won't find it.

Read my post again and then yours.

I said that the Police said they were thinking of sending the DNA Samples to Singapore, but never confirmed after that if they did or did not. You said they did not, and for me to forget it.

Here is the Link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763494-special-report-investigation-into-koh-tao-murders-seriously-flawed/

But it really doesn't matter if they sent it or not as they don't need that to get a conviction in Thailand. Just like they don't in the USA, UK, or Canada.

Well, actually it does. A Singapore report would be more credible than anything that the RTP could produce. And they can't because their technology is far behind. But most importantly, they cannot lose face by admitting that because they know everything there is to know about everything. One of the historical effects of never being colonised. Arrogance in spades amongst the elite.

Thus all the talk about they would do this and do that never materialised for the above reasons. Once the defence denounce the DNA findings and custody trail (if any), possibly with the testimony of Ms Porntip, and provide a scenario that introduces reasonable doubt, it would be up to the judge whether or not the 'evidence' is accepted.

One thing that puzzles me about any posters who believe the B2 are guilty, is that the profile of the B2 (and their physical stature of being under 5 feet) and their subsequent actions of going into work the next day, don't fit with a frenzied and horrific attack on both of the victims, one of whom is considerably larger and with none of his DNA on the hoe, it beggars belief. That, for me, is why I consider them innocent.

You don't live in Thailand do you? You have never been to trail here or ever arrested here, have you?

You mean the testimony of "Ms. Make Believe" don't you? As to your knowledge there is no such person. But Hell, I am game to hear that from the Trial.

Hey! Let the Defense run their own DNA Testing from a credible source. I am all for that. I never said at any time I was against them getting a fare trial. But I am against throwing out a Murder Trail, and letting 2 murderers go free, based on your feelings it is not up to UK Standards, or there DNA Testing Procedures. It was good enough to match 2 accused out of some 300 or more DNA Samples they took. For me that is good enough.

Besides that, you cannot convict on DNA Samples alone. This is only because the accuracy rate is something like in 1 in every 100 Million or so. So DNA can only be used as supporting evidence.

Yes! I think 2 Smaller Burmese Men with Weapons can overpower a much larger man who is Butt Naked at the time and has no Weapon, and is not a Martial Arts Expert, and like David Miller wasn't. Do you think you could under those conditions?

boomerangutang · July 4, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.
Where did you hear that?
He's also claiming that some man made a pass at Hannah in the bar. I'd like to know where that information came from too.
The information came from here. But there are other sources as I have seen this in a few places. You just need to learn how to look for yourself.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

The Mirror article makes no mention of Hannah's shirt or blood evidence. I'll ask again: where did you find/hear that? ...or is it yet another of GOLDBUGGY'S fabrications? - in order to cement the framing of the B2. P.S. RTP love folks like you, for backing their frame-up scenarios.

boomerangutang · July 4, 2015

.....but maybe, yes maybe, they are guilty, the facts and proof they seem to have suggests that, so I will stick to what is known,...

Unfortunately, there are few facts. Most of the 'facts' could well be fabrications put forth by Thai officials in their manic determination to frame two powerless, poor, young scapegoats. Already we, the general public, have shredded some of those 'facts' ("Hannah's phone found behind the Burmeses' shack, and dozens of other 'facts'").

Here are some facts to stir in to your morning coffee: Thai officials won't cooperate with Thai forensics re; DNA. They refuse to send NS's (and likely other former prime suspects') DNA typing to the Brit experts.

Another 'fact:': The Thai self-appointed PM specified that Brit experts will be allowed to come to the island, but as 'observers only.' NO INVESTIGATING, NO QUESTIONS TO ANYONE BUT THEIR RTP MINDERS, no follow-ups to clues.

Yet another 'fact': The judge said yes in April, to allowing re-examination of DNA. Then he said 'not now. I'll make a decision on the first day of the trial' a few days later.

Edited July 4, 2015 by boomerangutang

GOLDBUGGY · July 4, 2015

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy
In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?

Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

I take it you haven't watched the re-enactment. It's on video, if you care to take a look. On a site that the moderators don't let us link to. As to police taking bribes being hearsay, and not tampering with a taxi driver to give evidence - come on, man, what planet are you from? Zogg?

The crime scene was compromised. That's factual, and a legal argument that any evidence collected is also compromised.

So you would rather take the word of a Taxi Driver who may have been pissed off because he got a traffic ticket that day over the entire Thai Police Force, and up to Generals? That Figures!

I can't wait to hear his testimony in court next week. Or maybe he won't show now because someone told him the penalty for "Perjury". Lets wait and see from the Trail stating next week.

boomerangutang · July 4, 2015

So you would rather take the word of a Taxi Driver who may have been pissed off because he got a traffic ticket that day over the entire Thai Police Force, and up to Generals? That Figures!

I'll try to make it simple for you: It would only take one or two top brass to alter the entire direction of the investigation. Every single aurhority under them, down to the meter maid, would have no choice than to believe their superior officers.

If you want to call that a conspiracy, that's your choice. Either way, the thousands of lower ranked authorities are not involved directly with a conspiracy, unless they know their top brass are lying (and don't speak out about it). How likely is it for a lower ranked person to speak out against their bosses? Never happens in Thailand.

On a side note: We don't even know if the Burmese stole the mobile phone and sunglasses. They admitted to doing that under torture. Well, you or I would admit to being 3-legged frogs if enough torture was exerted.

GOLDBUGGY · July 4, 2015

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy
In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?

Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

I take it you haven't watched the re-enactment. It's on video, if you care to take a look. On a site that the moderators don't let us link to. As to police taking bribes being hearsay, and not tampering with a taxi driver to give evidence - come on, man, what planet are you from? Zogg?

The crime scene was compromised. That's factual, and a legal argument that any evidence collected is also compromised.

The crime scene being compromised does not mean it was destroyed, as someone else here suggested. It means it was compromised, which is to accept standards lower than is desirable. Which just means they had to do more work to find the same amount of Evidence.

Yes, I did see this video long ago after the 2 accused confessed to this crime of Rape and Murder. But no, I am sorry I did not see them all beat up by the Police forcing this confession out of them, or anyone holding a gun to their head. So what did you want me to look for then?

GOLDBUGGY · July 4, 2015

 

berybert,

Quite on the contrary. There is a preponderance of evidence that all point to the accused. It has all been brought up here several times in the past, only to be argued by many speaking about some Grand Conspiracy Theory. It would have to be "Grand" as there theory does not only involve the Local Police planting some evidence, but includes some of the Highest Ranking Police Officials in this Land, and several different Labs falsifying evidence.

And for what I may ask? To accuse some poor Migrant Workers? This Grand Conspiracy Theory even extends to the Head Man of the Village paying the police to let his son go free. Someone even came out with a figure of 112 M Baht. But yet it has been reported by the Police and Media that his Son wasn't even on the island during the time of the murders nor could he have been. He was off island in school where many of his Classmates are willing to testify to this. So now all of them would also have to have been paid off in this Grand Conspiracy Theory as well. Not accepting perhaps the truth for a second, and that his Son had a reason for not being charged, which is called a "Good Alibi".

Even if this Grand Conspiracy Theory actually existed, which I don't believe for a second, why not just say his Son has a Good Alibi, so it can't be him, and collect the 112 M? Why try to accuse 2 innocent men knowing this High Profile Case will drag on afterwards. Why not just say that the DNA evidence collected from Hannah did not match anyone on island. That the perpetrators must have left the Island and Thailand already and we have no way at the present time to narrow down who this (these) people are. That is believable isn't it? Which also puts an end to this whole story.

In the past, the Media have uncovered many Conspiracies. What comes to mind for me is the greatest Cover-up of all time, "Water Gate", which resulted in the most Powerful Man in the World, the President on the United States, to step down, and put some others in powerful positions in prison. Uncovering Conspiracies helps sell newspapers.

So don't you think it is odd, with all this Media attention in this case, and in all this time, that not one Newspaper Reported this Grand Conspiracy Theory? That they can uncover something like the Water Gate but yet here they can't find even one villager to come forward and say he saw the murders, and it wasn't them. Or One Lab Guy, saying he was forced to falsify evidence, or one Police Man, to say he planted evidence. What a story that would make, and please don't think for a second they would be afraid to do this. If they can expose the President of United States, they are not afraid to expose anyone.

The Media haven't exposed any Grand Conspiracy Theory not because they are shy and afraid to talk to people, not because they are afraid of being arrested for asking too many questions, but only because this Grand Conspiracy Theory doesn't exist. People can talk to them and not be in fear as they won't use there real names. Happens all the time. The Media have ways to hide this better than any Police Department can find.

You asked me why I am so sure they are guilty so now I will tell you. Besides the preponderance of evidence they have against the accused already, it was the discovery of both of the accused Sperm, found inside of Hannah's Vagina and Rectum, that got my vote.This is next to impossible for a Corrupt Police Officer to plant, and would also involve the Falsifying of Lab Results to, which I think would be very difficult to do. If it was so easy to do then it could not be used as Evidence.

It was also pointed out by the Police very early on that they intended to send a separate sample to Singapore to be tested. Since then it has never been confirmed, or denied, this was or was not done. So we will have to wait for the Trail to find this out for sure I guess. But to me it just seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and trouble, just to accuse 2 Migrant Workers, when they could have washed their hands from this case ages ago.

So yes, I do believe they are guilty. But please keep in mind I am not the Judge at this Trial who has to make the important decision. I am just expressing my honest opinion here, which last I heard I was allowed to do. .

  quote from goldbuggy
In the case of Thailand I would always keep in mind the liklihood of innocence before guilt. This is the ocuntry where in September 2014 a man was imprisoned without trial on the basis of the words of a translator. This all hapopened because he was mugged apparently.

In the case of the 2 burmians they happened to be illegal workers - undocumented, thus guilty for whate ever -

reports from the others workers of beatings and burning with scolding water

no evidence ( though apparently photo evidence of torture is around) though the crime scene was destroyed by incompetant investigators, reports of police offering bribes for false witness.

on the reinaction ( a highly signifncant Thai process) they needed a lot of instructions on what to do and where to go, for instance both pointing in different directions for the press photo

hearsay ?, perhaps, but there is precedent

I would like to see you on the receiving end of this type of investigation to see if justice is truly served,

No Link to any of this? Is this the latest Bar Room talk?

Sure injustice can happen in any country. Not too long ago in Canada 2 Police Officers killed a Polish Immigrant in the Vancouver Airport. He was being held for questioning but since he did not speak English they needed to find a Polish Translator first. While waiting he got very upset and started to throw some chairs around. The Police were called and they stunned him with a Stun Gun, and he died. Believe me, this did not go over very well in Canada, Poland, or the rest of the World.

As to the destruction of the Crime Scene this is purely Hog Wash and Dribble. It was not destroyed! It was just not made as secure as it should have been. This is not the same as destroyed.

As to police taking bribes, tampering with witnesses, giving instruction during the reenactment, this doesn't even qualify as Hearsay. More like Bar Room Gossip at best. Unless of course you have proof any of this and can Link it, which again I highly doubt.

I take it you haven't watched the re-enactment. It's on video, if you care to take a look. On a site that the moderators don't let us link to. As to police taking bribes being hearsay, and not tampering with a taxi driver to give evidence - come on, man, what planet are you from? Zogg?

The crime scene was compromised. That's factual, and a legal argument that any evidence collected is also compromised.

Do you even know what the definition for "Compromise" is? I highly doubt that. But then I already explained that to you.

Look! You asked me to prove you wrong about Singapore and I did. How many more times to you want me to prove you wrong here. I am tired of your game.

Where is your Link from a Credible source that suggests the accused are innocent? And Gossip and Bar Room talk about Police taking bribes or tampering with evidence will not do. As I said many times. I can easily find Gossip and B.S. It is time for me, the Prosecution to rest my case. Now I am waiting for you, the Defense to present your evidence.

So as the wise man said here once already. Either Put Up....or Shut Up!

IslandLover · July 4, 2015

Blood on one of the shirts, which turned out to be Hannah's.

Where did you hear that?

He's also claiming that some man made a pass at Hannah in the bar. I'd like to know where that information came from too.

The information came from here. But there are other sources as I have seen this in a few places. You just need to learn how to look for yourself.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-4297320

Ha, ha, ha, now I know you're just full of hot air and we can't take anything you say seriously . Reports of an altercation in the AC bar involving Hannah, David, and local gangsters is just rumour and hearsay, dontcha know. At least, that's what we're constantly being told on this forum by the B2-are-guilty brigade. Now you are claiming it's true? As in - a man made a pass at Hannah in the bar and was let go because his DNA didn't match. Where is the proof?

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