They say it comes in 3s. Time to give up the bike, perhaps?

[Happy Grumpy]

Live is all about how you view it.

For example:

You see scooters smashing into you and dangerously fitted tires by idiots.

Others see lottery numbers.

All how you view it, dude.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[CarolJadzia]

Not sure how soap has come about. It was tire lube with the same consistency as KY jelly or similar. If the numpties have simply wiped it with a rag, the chances are it has got on the main tread, even if a little!

The photos don't do it justice. My finger was caked in the stuff after running it around.

Yes thats tyre soap. Normally comes in a tub hanging on the tyre fitting machine. Normally applied with a paint brush round the tyre rim.

Car tyre fitting garages splash it on as they don't have to worry about it.

Specialist motorcycle tyre fitters know to be careful with it. We don't want to get blamed for someone coming off on their new tyres.

Riders tend to be very good at ignoring the warnings and going for a blast on their new shoes, then trying to find blame when they do come off.

Not directed at OP. If you did not know about the warnings then not your fault.

Sorry you found out the hard way.

[BBJ]

No harm, bit of pride but the dust has settled.

I guess anyone having tires fitted make sure you check thoroughly yourself.

They were very apologetic about it just fortunate it happened where it did.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[Dutchbike]

First thing I do after having a set of new tyres fitted.

[kovaltech]

OP, re-reading your post and after numberous times watching your video... (frame per frame )

1. Did you get your front tyre changed to ?

2. It looks that it might been your front wheel slipping on the painted stripe, no way to control the handle bar any more ( quick sharp left )

If your rear wheel takes of, your automated reaction is steering to compensate the drift ( you will steer right in this case )

I see : a quick slip left, then the breakout of your rear and then the engine revs up.

[nithisa78]

I think you would have a tough time making your case. Move on. I'm glad you didn't get hurt. Forget that 3 stuff and enjoy.

[Happy Grumpy]

User Error.

Always deeply inspect every part of your bike that a Thai has a had contact with.

Chief head mechanic at AP Honda, matters not a jot.

If a Thai mechanic has touched it, you inspect it before you ride.

[Happy Grumpy]

I like how a Thai inflates the tires and then when you ask in Thai what PSI they inflated it to, they look lost and say it's done well, good job.

Then you ask how mush PSI is recommended for those tires, and they start to look confused and angry.

Sad really.

[macknife]

My bad...was replying to OP mainly...but as i said, simply spending a couple of minutes buffing the tyres with coarse sandpaper is all that is needed...go fast/lean extreme basically as soon as you want...Should be compulsory for tyre fitters to do this or at least offer to...had one clown who didn't want to because he would lose some kilometers of tyre use.. proof that you can only help those who want to help themselves.

This is a myth and makes zero difference. The terminology of "scrubbing" in new tires, which wrongly implies that the surface of the tire itself needs to be scrubbed or abraded to offer traction. While this may have been the case long ago when manufacturers used a mold release compound, it most definitely is not the case today.

It's all about the heat. You're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well.

Go to any track day, NO ONE is getting out the sandpaper on new rubber. You do 1-2 warm up laps then you are good to go dragging your knees. All you need in a tire is heat for it to work. there is no such thing as a "break in period" nor has "mold release" been used for a long time on tires. Watch an Isle of man TT race once. they come in for a new rear and ride off at full bore and sometimes with a sticker still on the tire. that's becasuse they've been kept in tire warmers and they are ready for action at that point.

The OP slipped simply due to tire soap.

[kovaltech]

The OP slipped ....

[Lokie]

New tyres fitted;

if they have left excess tyre soap (you refer to as 'lube') up the side wall then it should be removed before riding, then as stated in posts new tyres need to be 'ridden in' (the release compound removed, this waxy substance is used to help release the tyre from the tyre mould at the factory) New tyres extreme care for first 50 miles (80klms) still seems odd for the bike to go over from your clip, there was no diesel in the area or oil in front of garage that the rear has come into contact with?

[Laisze]

I like how a Thai inflates the tires and then when you ask in Thai what PSI they inflated it to, they look lost and say it's done well, good job.

Then you ask how mush PSI is recommended for those tires, and they start to look confused and angry.

Indeed - the standard Thai procedure for inflating tires, is to pump them up until the air compressor tops out. I've seen both car and bike tires come out of shops with up to 60 psi.

[Kondiao]

I.M.H.O. it could be a case of the wrong tires for your bike. I have experienced this phenomenon one time in my few years of riding - scattered over 5 countries, in two continents. When I bought this bike, used there were pretty new tires on it. It caused me to lose control some times in curves and eventually one fall in traffic.

When I sold the bike later - not because of the fall - the new owner told me he changed the tires and the new tires performed properly, out of the box. I personally, when riding a new bike with new tires have never had fallen.

This could happen to you too. In Thailand the mechanics could have inflicted wrong tires for your machine just as easily as they could have over-inflated or over-lub'd the rims. While you are thinking about retiring from bikes you could contact Pirelli and make certain about the specified tire model for your bike model and check that they put on these tires and not some damaged goods laying around the shop.

As for your superstition about things coming in 3's: I am of the same mind. If you are serious about it you could ask your Thai people to steer you to an honest psychic or monk who might have some insight into what they see down the road for you. If you believe in that kind of thing - if you take your safety seriously - are you going to be brave or be wise?

[BBJ]

I.M.H.O. it could be a case of the wrong tires for your bike. I have experienced this phenomenon one time in my few years of riding - scattered over 5 countries, in two continents. When I bought this bike, used there were pretty new tires on it. It caused me to lose control some times in curves and eventually one fall in traffic.

When I sold the bike later - not because of the fall - the new owner told me he changed the tires and the new tires performed properly, out of the box. I personally, when riding a new bike with new tires have never had fallen.

This could happen to you too. In Thailand the mechanics could have inflicted wrong tires for your machine just as easily as they could have over-inflated or over-lub'd the rims. While you are thinking about retiring from bikes you could contact Pirelli and make certain about the specified tire model for your bike model and check that they put on these tires and not some damaged goods laying around the shop.

As for your superstition about things coming in 3's: I am of the same mind. If you are serious about it you could ask your Thai people to steer you to an honest psychic or monk who might have some insight into what they see down the road for you. If you believe in that kind of thing - if you take your safety seriously - are you going to be brave or be wise?

Fair point but this is my second set. No issues with the first set of MT60s and I hammered those as they were free.

While I appreciate the opinions and criticism, they admitted fault in that the lube (soap) hadn't been removed, leaving a sheen on the tread.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[BBJ]

OP, re-reading your post and after numberous times watching your video... (frame per frame )

1. Did you get your front tyre changed to ?

2. It looks that it might been your front wheel slipping on the painted stripe, no way to control the handle bar any more ( quick sharp left )

If your rear wheel takes of, your automated reaction is steering to compensate the drift ( you will steer right in this case )

I see : a quick slip left, then the breakout of your rear and then the engine revs up.

No slip on the front but it was change, yes. I think the slight twitch from the front was from going over the white line.

Steering to compensate drift is fine with momentum, there was barely any forward momentum in this case. I've had this bike 120+ down dirt tracks for fun.

Edited July 2, 2015 by BBJ

[Happy Grumpy]

I like how a Thai inflates the tires and then when you ask in Thai what PSI they inflated it to, they look lost and say it's done well, good job.

Then you ask how mush PSI is recommended for those tires, and they start to look confused and angry.

Indeed - the standard Thai procedure for inflating tires, is to pump them up until the air compressor tops out. I've seen both car and bike tires come out of shops with up to 60 psi.

That's only at main dealers such as Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, where 'qualified' mechanics work.

The backyard guys do it until their nose needs picking again and they need their fingers back.

[andreandre]

My bad...was replying to OP mainly...but as i said, simply spending a couple of minutes buffing the tyres with coarse sandpaper is all that is needed...go fast/lean extreme basically as soon as you want...Should be compulsory for tyre fitters to do this or at least offer to...had one clown who didn't want to because he would lose some kilometers of tyre use.. proof that you can only help those who want to help themselves.

This is a myth and makes zero difference. The terminology of "scrubbing" in new tires, which wrongly implies that the surface of the tire itself needs to be scrubbed or abraded to offer traction. While this may have been the case long ago when manufacturers used a mold release compound, it most definitely is not the case today.

It's all about the heat. You're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well.

Go to any track day, NO ONE is getting out the sandpaper on new rubber. You do 1-2 warm up laps then you are good to go dragging your knees. All you need in a tire is heat for it to work. there is no such thing as a "break in period" nor has "mold release" been used for a long time on tires. Watch an Isle of man TT race once. they come in for a new rear and ride off at full bore and sometimes with a sticker still on the tire. that's becasuse they've been kept in tire warmers and they are ready for action at that point.

The OP slipped simply due to tire soap.

Not a myth at all for me in person and thats what counts!...It is a ritual i've always done and i know full well all that you have posted here.but even if its only mind over matter or not neccessary in your eyes , i'd guesstimate that i've had 100 new tyres fitted in my 700.000 klms road riding and not once ever have i dropped a bike because of slippery new tyres. I do think i realise the importance of heated tyres etc...

I know that new tyres mostly do not have mold release agent used, but by nature of being new they are very glossy..glossy=slippery..Yes? Hence my tyre buffing is here to stay.Confidence and competence are a major part of being a happy rider IMO..and my tyres being scrubbed and checked out personally also for tyre soap etc and especially check correct pressure before even getting on my bike gives me the freedom to ride away just the same as if the tyre was not brand new.

PS Bridgestone, have the same thoughts as me also.

As posted earlier by Carole;

In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance Bridgestone strongly advises that they should be ridden very cautiously for at least the first 125 miles / 200 km in order to condition and settle them on the rim, this allows the tread surface to be “scuffed-in” and function properly.

In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance Bridgestone strongly advises that they should be ridden very cautiously for at least the first 125 miles / 200 km in order to condition and settle them on the rim, this allows the tread surface to be “scuffed-in” and function properly.

The tyres should then be checked to ensure correct seating and inflation. After this initial period, lean-angles and acceleration and braking forces can be gradually increased. Please remember that the tyre works most efficiently after it reaches its operating temperature.

Directly after the tyres are mounted, sudden acceleration, maximum braking and hard cornering must be avoided. This will also allow the rider to adjust to the “feel” and handling characteristics of the new tyres. It is also recommended that immediately after fitting a new tyre, the dealer or fitter should ensure that the tread surface is not contaminated in any way (e.g. by excess fitting lubricant). It is also advised that the tread surface should be “buffed” with a dry cloth around the circumference, please also ensure that the label is removed before use.

To sum up, the running in of tyres serves several purposes:

• The tyre needs to settle itself onto the wheel rim.
• The various components of the tyre (carcass, tread strip, etc.) need to settle in to one another.
• When tyres are new the tread has a smooth surface and this surface needs to be “scuffed-in” to obtain maximum grip.
• The rider is able to get used to the new tyre and ride accordingly.

PS..to OP..If you really enjoy riding, why would a couple of very minor incidents make you consider giving up the bike? Do you mean, this particular bike or bike riding totally? Just curious..

Edited July 3, 2015 by andreandre

[BBJ]

^I'm considering a KX450F and sticking to off road only.

This is my fourth set of tires on this bike, second set of MT60s. I slipped due to lube being on the tires, and admitted by the installer. There was no forward momentum for me to catch the slip. And as I lifted my feet onto the pegs roughly in tandem with applying throttle, add this with little, to no forward movement, then the result was obvious.

I hit a dog at 120kph, which threw me halfway off the bike but I kept control because I hammered the throttle just after impact. Does that make me a better rider than those that weren't as fortunate, or just plain lucky?

Edited July 3, 2015 by BBJ

[billd766]

I like how a Thai inflates the tires and then when you ask in Thai what PSI they inflated it to, they look lost and say it's done well, good job.

Then you ask how mush PSI is recommended for those tires, and they start to look confused and angry.

Indeed - the standard Thai procedure for inflating tires, is to pump them up until the air compressor tops out. I've seen both car and bike tires come out of shops with up to 60 psi.

The day after I have had work done on my bike I check and adjust the tyre pressures in the cooler part of the morning. I have 2 gauges and my own small air compressor. I do the same on my Ford Ranger pickup truck when it comes back from the shop.

50 psi is nothing unusual to see from the shop.

Edited July 3, 2015 by billd766

[andreandre]

My bad...was replying to OP mainly...but as i said, simply spending a couple of minutes buffing the tyres with coarse sandpaper is all that is needed...go fast/lean extreme basically as soon as you want...Should be compulsory for tyre fitters to do this or at least offer to...had one clown who didn't want to because he would lose some kilometers of tyre use.. proof that you can only help those who want to help themselves.

This is a myth and makes zero difference. The terminology of "scrubbing" in new tires, which wrongly implies that the surface of the tire itself needs to be scrubbed or abraded to offer traction. While this may have been the case long ago when manufacturers used a mold release compound, it most definitely is not the case today.

It's all about the heat. You're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well.

Go to any track day, NO ONE is getting out the sandpaper on new rubber. You do 1-2 warm up laps then you are good to go dragging your knees. All you need in a tire is heat for it to work. there is no such thing as a "break in period" nor has "mold release" been used for a long time on tires. Watch an Isle of man TT race once. they come in for a new rear and ride off at full bore and sometimes with a sticker still on the tire. that's becasuse they've been kept in tire warmers and they are ready for action at that point.

The OP slipped simply due to tire soap.

Not a myth at all for me in person and thats what counts!...It is a ritual i've always done and i know full well all that you have posted here.but even if its only mind over matter or not neccessary in your eyes , i'd guesstimate that i've had 100 new tyres fitted in my 700.000 klms road riding and not once ever have i dropped a bike because of slippery new tyres. I do think i realise the importance of heated tyres etc...

I know that new tyres mostly do not have mold release agent used, but by nature of being new they are very glossy..glossy=slippery..Yes? Hence my tyre buffing is here to stay.Confidence and competence are a major part of being a happy rider IMO..and my tyres being scrubbed and checked out personally also for tyre soap etc and especially check correct pressure before even getting on my bike gives me the freedom to ride away just the same as if the tyre was not brand new.

PS Bridgestone, have the same thoughts as me also.

As posted earlier by Carole;

In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance Bridgestone strongly advises that they should be ridden very cautiously for at least the first 125 miles / 200 km in order to condition and settle them on the rim, this allows the tread surface to be “scuffed-in” and function properly.

In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance Bridgestone strongly advises that they should be ridden very cautiously for at least the first 125 miles / 200 km in order to condition and settle them on the rim, this allows the tread surface to be “scuffed-in” and function properly.

The tyres should then be checked to ensure correct seating and inflation. After this initial period, lean-angles and acceleration and braking forces can be gradually increased. Please remember that the tyre works most efficiently after it reaches its operating temperature.

Directly after the tyres are mounted, sudden acceleration, maximum braking and hard cornering must be avoided. This will also allow the rider to adjust to the “feel” and handling characteristics of the new tyres. It is also recommended that immediately after fitting a new tyre, the dealer or fitter should ensure that the tread surface is not contaminated in any way (e.g. by excess fitting lubricant). It is also advised that the tread surface should be “buffed” with a dry cloth around the circumference, please also ensure that the label is removed before use.

To sum up, the running in of tyres serves several purposes:

• The tyre needs to settle itself onto the wheel rim.
• The various components of the tyre (carcass, tread strip, etc.) need to settle in to one another.
• When tyres are new the tread has a smooth surface and this surface needs to be “scuffed-in” to obtain maximum grip.
• The rider is able to get used to the new tyre and ride accordingly.

PS..to OP..If you really enjoy riding, why would a couple of very minor incidents make you consider giving up the bike? Do you mean, this particular bike or bike riding totally? Just curious..

My guestimate of 100 tyres was off the mark on re thinking .... no coffee intake when i posted earlier.....more like 50 including when buying new bikes=new tyres, but still same tyre check proceedure by me on new bikes also.

[andreandre]

^I'm considering a KX450F and sticking to off road only.

This is my fourth set of tires on this bike, second set of MT60s. I slipped due to lube being on the tires, and admitted by the installer. There was no forward momentum for me to catch the slip. And as I lifted my feet onto the pegs roughly in tandem with applying throttle, add this with little, to no forward movement, then the result was obvious.

I hit a dog at 120kph, which threw me halfway off the bike but I kept control because I hammered the throttle just after impact. Does that make me a better rider than those that weren't as fortunate, or just plain lucky?

Re; only off roading......Fair enough call .....you have to go with your own gut feelings..

The incident with the new tyres? As you say...shops fault...shit happens....learn from it.

The dog?..Only you know the answer to that, but hey riding a bike is always going to be full of similar incidents..you survived to live/ride another day..next please...

Hope you make the right choice and ride on.....

[English_M_in_Bkk]

So name and shame the shop then, so I know never to go there

[CarolJadzia]

So name and shame the shop then, so I know never to go there

As in the same manner as I will be careful when I get new tyres fitted in the UK as to who I get to fit them and how they do it.

May I suggest possibly that the same level of detail is done by everyone after all TiT.

Try to get tyres fitted by someone who does motorcycle tyres as a main job, rather than a general tyre fitter.

By default he should know the score, if you are unsure then watch how he is doing it.

They have to use a little of the lubricant to get the tyre to pop onto the rim.

But a smear round the tyre bead will do - not a brush full splattered everywhere.

Even then the problem of new tyres is not just the fitting soap.

The tyre needs to be run in carefully for 100 miles.

Ok on a scooter in Thailand you will prob find 50 miles and things should be ok.

But on a sports bike I would not be looking for full lean until I was getting on towards triple figures.

Yes ignore the warnings, I have in the past. Yes you can get away with it.

Thing is it is a common issue, just google "scrubbing in motorcycle tyres" and you will find plenty on the subject.

It's your bike that you slide down the road if they don't grip. So I prefer to make sure mine are done right.

[greenchair]

This happened to me. And a friend also.

I had recently changed my tire. As I drove along the back wheel would lock by itself just slightly. Then for a couple of weeks it didn't lock itself at all. Then I was riding along minding my business.

Went through a sandy patch the wheel locked hard and the bike went out from under me.

A passersby just happened to show me their was a nut missed at the connection to the brake and the brake and wheel had not been aligned correctly with the brake. The brake still so that's why I didn't think there was a problem with break. But because it was not connected properly the wheel would lock by itself on occasion.

Please check your bike again it might be similar and have another accident.

[BBJ]

So name and shame the shop then, so I know never to go there

Pirelli have since been in contact as I did a prior review and test for them of the very same tire which prompted the purchase this time around.

They have the video and confirmed there wasn't enough throttle for the bike to leg go the way it did. On the raw video I have you can see the crap left on the tire. Admittedly, there was more on the opposite side, than the side that let go, but there was a clear sheen patch on the on the tire tread at the time.

[BBJ]

So name and shame the shop then, so I know never to go there

It is a main bike dealer that I've used many times and purchased the bike from them. I will wait for Pirelli to contact me before I mention the name.

Let's just say I might change my mind about the KX450F for the moment!

Edited July 5, 2015 by BBJ

[kannot]

First thing I do after having a set of new tyres fitted.

Burn out.jpg

and the front tyre?

[BBJ]

After speaking to Pirelli it turns out I have been sold a set of tires that are 5 years old. Possible degassed. Pirelli have offered to swap them over for new ones.

Not the cause of the slip in my opinion, but nevertheless.

Edited July 9, 2015 by BBJ

[Rhys]

Sorry Bro that happened....just a string of bad luck..take a break... stay on the pegs... Watch out for the dogs... I know, feel like a spas.. but it does happen.. we drop our bike time to time, and we learn..

On the peg, bro...

Edited July 10, 2015 by Rhys

[losworld]

After speaking to Pirelli it turns out I have been sold a set of tires that are 5 years old. Possible degassed. Pirelli have offered to swap them over for new ones.

Not the cause of the slip in my opinion, but nevertheless.

Caveot Emptor here for sure including labor or work done. A few days ago I was out riding with a friend and he says "looks like your back tire is loose and wobbling". I had a tire changed a week before and the guy who did it didn't bother setting the tire in place after. Not sure I would ride if I did not have some knowledge of mechanics. I do visual checks and generally watch them work now.