Solar Installation

[thedivezone]

For those interested in doing a grid-tie system, Amorn Solar now publish prices all-inclusive of installation:

http://www.amornsolar.com/promotion-install.php

Prices for single phase systems range from about 54-65 Baht per watt-hour.

Wow ! The 3 kW on-grid single phase system is quoted at 107 000 baht full install, if i read this correctly, have the prices come down that much since Ginboy did his? Or is there something missing in this package ?

Coupled with the price increase for electricity by 12 % effective nov 16th this looks like a good opportunity to get into solar.

They way I read it, the 3kw single phase system is 103K Baht for parts only (DIY install), or 172,550 fully installed (current meter spinning backwards), or 186,500 fully installed as part of the solar rooftop scheme (where you have 2 meters).

Ahh, ... thanks for clarifying that, still a very good deal considering the recent electricity price hike.

Could you tell me what the difference is between having one and two meters ?

Thanks.

[IMHO]

For those interested in doing a grid-tie system, Amorn Solar now publish prices all-inclusive of installation:

http://www.amornsolar.com/promotion-install.php

Prices for single phase systems range from about 54-65 Baht per watt-hour.

Wow ! The 3 kW on-grid single phase system is quoted at 107 000 baht full install, if i read this correctly, have the prices come down that much since Ginboy did his? Or is there something missing in this package ?

Coupled with the price increase for electricity by 12 % effective nov 16th this looks like a good opportunity to get into solar.

They way I read it, the 3kw single phase system is 103K Baht for parts only (DIY install), or 172,550 fully installed (current meter spinning backwards), or 186,500 fully installed as part of the solar rooftop scheme (where you have 2 meters).

Ahh, ... thanks for clarifying that, still a very good deal considering the recent electricity price hike.

Could you tell me what the difference is between having one and two meters ?

Thanks.

That's the Solar Rooftop progarm - where your harvested power is fed back into the grid via a 'sell' meter, and you're paid around 7 Baht/unit for what you generate.

More info (in Thai):

http://www.mea.or.th/profile/index.php?l=th&tid=3&mid=3031&pid=3030

https://www.pea.co.th/vspp/Pages/Solar%20Rooftop.aspx

[Langsuan Man]

Hi GB2,

I also congrat you for the nice and for many of us important info. I myself recently moved to Bang Saray, Sattahip, and considering installing solar power, but I want it to supply energy in case of grid power failure which happens quite often here. And would like later to be able to add a battery storage system, when those costs have gone down... Can you confirm if your installation is of this socalled Island type, where inverter automatically shuts down in case of grid failure so your panels thus cannot provide you with local energy during the out-period? And have you had any thoughts about adding energy storage to tap from during the night etc.?

Thanks in advance

Before you do anything you had better check with Sattahip electric cooperative since you are in Bang Saray and they are serviced by the "Navy Electric Welfare Concession" not a traditional electric company such as MEA or PEA and they may not have signed on to the program yet

[thedivezone]

Thanks for that, i thought i read somewhere that that rooftop scheme had been abandoned, definetely need to do more research on the subject.

Wow ! The 3 kW on-grid single phase system is quoted at 107 000 baht full install, if i read this correctly, have the prices come down that much since Ginboy did his? Or is there something missing in this package ?

Coupled with the price increase for electricity by 12 % effective nov 16th this looks like a good opportunity to get into solar.

They way I read it, the 3kw single phase system is 103K Baht for parts only (DIY install), or 172,550 fully installed (current meter spinning backwards), or 186,500 fully installed as part of the solar rooftop scheme (where you have 2 meters).

Ahh, ... thanks for clarifying that, still a very good deal considering the recent electricity price hike.

Could you tell me what the difference is between having one and two meters ?

Thanks.

That's the Solar Rooftop progarm - where your harvested power is fed back into the grid via a 'sell' meter, and you're paid around 7 Baht/unit for what you generate.

More info (in Thai):

http://www.mea.or.th/profile/index.php?l=th&tid=3&mid=3031&pid=3030

https://www.pea.co.th/vspp/Pages/Solar%20Rooftop.aspx

[BHW]

Hi

Does Amorn system / price include the following.

Grounding / earthing the system including the panels.

PV cabling.

Mountings for panels.

Any surge protection.

AC cabling, alterations to existing installation.

Isolators / disconnect swithches both for DC & AC.

Anything else, the web site says panels & inverter only.

Thanks for any information.

[Crossy]

Hi

Does Amorn system / price include the following.

Grounding / earthing the system including the panels.

PV cabling.

Mountings for panels.

Any surge protection.

AC cabling, alterations to existing installation.

Isolators / disconnect swithches both for DC & AC.

Anything else, the web site says panels & inverter only.

Thanks for any information.

AFAIK. The "parts only" (cheapest) option is panels and inverter.

If you choose either of the installation options you get all the additional jiggery-pokery to make it work.

Have a look at GB2's photos earlier on in this thread.

[RichCor]

Hi

Does Amorn system / price include the following:

I would have asked if it included the requisite paperwork that needs to be filed with the electric authority to allow Grid-Tied operation, unless you were planning to assemble it with inverters designed for isolated/off-grid operation.

[BHW]

Yeah thanks

I'm trying to work out why it looks a good deal, added extras !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards

[Crossy]

Hi

Does Amorn system / price include the following:

I would have asked if it included the requisite paperwork that needs to be filed with the electric authority to allow Grid-Tied operation, unless you were planning to assemble it with inverters designed for isolated/off-grid operation.

If you go for the Solar Roof option it most certainly does include a stack of paperwork.

GB2 had a pile of paper with his installation but it's unclear which option he got.

[GettingOlder]

Hi GB2,

I also congrat you for the nice and for many of us important info. I myself recently moved to Bang Saray, Sattahip, and considering installing solar power, but I want it to supply energy in case of grid power failure which happens quite often here. And would like later to be able to add a battery storage system, when those costs have gone down... Can you confirm if your installation is of this socalled Island type, where inverter automatically shuts down in case of grid failure so your panels thus cannot provide you with local energy during the out-period? And have you had any thoughts about adding energy storage to tap from during the night etc.?

Thanks in advance

Before you do anything you had better check with Sattahip electric cooperative since you are in Bang Saray and they are serviced by the "Navy Electric Welfare Concession" not a traditional electric company such as MEA or PEA and they may not have signed on to the program yet

Thank you for that vital info - another complication when buying property in Bang Saray... Since I did not succeed on internet in digging any info up about the navy-run Sattahip Electric Welfare company providing electricity to this area I will soon go visit their office.

In the meantime I have tried getting info about the general application procedure and current status for selling electricity back to the grid, but retrieved only historic info... The last application period for Rooftop <10kW projects ended in June 2015, comprising a sell back TIF of 6.85 Bht/Kwh for 25 years (reduced from 6.96 in 2014) and operation due to start operation within 2015. The number of projects were capped at a total power generation of 200 MW, however divided into regions. The regional applications seem not to exceed the available amount except in North-East region where a slight "over-subscription" happened. But no info about the next round and which TIF would apply - I wonder if others could enlighten us here, or perhaps this is perceived as confidential info to reduce the degree of over-subscription which next time probably will be dramatic due to the recent reduction in equipment cost.

The capped amount 800 MW for the larger commercial projects were "over-subscribed" around 20 fold in the most recent application period this year, and here will in December 2015 be a lucky draw to identify the projects who will be awarded a sales contract. The TIF is less for those projects but apparently still a very attractive business opportunity. I am aware of a 2 year old solar farm installation in Chonburi area, enrolled under the previous "Adder"-program, were the owner expects the initial capital to be paid back in another 2 years (less than 5 years total).

[Langsuan Man]

Here, if you know a fluent Thai speaker they might be able to give you a better translation of the name of the electric company. The office is located before the South entrance to the Navy Base along the waterside road (go to the wet market at the end of the road connecting to Sukumvit and turn left )

There was a very personable supervisor who spoke excellent English the last time I went to the office about a billing problem, the telephone number is on the attachment below:

[Issangeorge]

Why are they capping solar installations, and at the same time trying to build a new coal plant in Krabi? It seems to me they should be doing the opposite, capping all coal plants and only allowing solar and wind generation.

[BHW]

Thai thinking.

Like where I live spread rice out on half road to dry, leave un covered ova night, due falls ova night rice wet again in the morning.

Not much between the ears.

[ginglee]

Its a 5KW single phase system

that does not answer my question. i have some figures for Central Europe and would like to compare them with those of Thailand. a pricewise investment comparison is not possible because especially in my home country photovoltaic installations are heavily subsidised.

In my area at 16.533 longitude they say I can expect 4.49 hours productive sunlight per day, check out thus site http://www.ecowho.com/tools/solar_power_calculator.php

That means I would generate about 22.45kWh per day on a 5kW system. Isaan is suppose to get 300 sunny days a year, so figure 22.45 * 300 = 6,735kWh per year or 18.45kWh per day. From what I understand you lose about 20% when it is converted to normal household current, so about 14.76kWh per day or 448.85kWh per month. That's about 40kWh more per month than I average without AC.

If you borrowed ฿257,000 amortized over 25 years at 6%, the lifespan of the system your payment would be ฿1,650 per month, that works out to about ฿3.68 per kWh, just slightly less than I am paying now. And that would be for the next 25 years, no rate increase.

Instead of building dirty coal plants in Laos, I can't understand why the Thai Government doesn't facilitate long term loans for people to build solar systems, they would not have to subsidize them. I am sure there are pension funds and insurance companies that would Love to have a safe 6% return on their money. If I have made a mistake in my calculation, please let me know.

"slightly less than I'm paying now" ? So whats the real financial benefit? ...The UK government have tried this- Green deal-, hasn't taken off, as people are reluctant to sign up for a 20 year loan, for very little gain. It surprises me how little solar panels have come on in 30 years.

[RichCor]

"slightly less than I'm paying now" ? So whats the real financial benefit? ...The UK government have tried this- Green deal-, hasn't taken off, as people are reluctant to sign up for a 20 year loan, for very little gain. It surprises me how little solar panels have come on in 30 years.

So your price for Electricity hasn't changed over the coarse of 20 years (at the same residence), nor is it expected to change over the next 20 years?

Hmm.

[Issangeorge]

Ginboy, I and I'm sure other followers of this form, would be really interested in your December figured of electrical generation. A sunny month, yet the shortest days of the year, the figures would make a good comparison of the least amount of power we could expect. Thanks.

[BHW]

For those interested rkholdinggroup have just installed a 2500 Off Grid system at The Farm, Ban Pok.

At first they connected 1000 watts of panels & 400 AH of battery it run the farm shed etc for 3 days & nights using about 3.5KWH each day the load consisted of a medium size fridge, kettle & rice warmer, small pressure pump, TV & a few lights. As no body lives there they left 46 watts of lights on & the TV over night in the morning the batteries still had over 50 to 75% left.

Next they connected more panels & batteries to make 2500 watts & 800 AH of batteries at first the panels were at 7degrees were not making enough power for what was required the panels were then raised to 30 degrees production then increased by 30% in early morning & later afternoon during peak production period of 10 AM to 2.30 PM production increased by 40%.

The load consists of the farm shed as above plus a 1000 watt submersible pump which pumps 6000 plus liters an hour, it has run for up to 8 hours a day, as a test it was run on 2 occasions after sundown from 5.30 PM to 9.30 PM batteries were still over 50%, this is a good indication that instead of the pump it could handle a small house with 1 air conditioner. This system could be increased to 3250 watts of panels & 1200 AH of batteries. On average the farm is using 8 KWH a day peak use was 3 days ago of 11 KWH it was the first day in about 2 weeks with little cloud cover.

It is worth remembering at this time of the year the sun is way down south so not peak production time.

They have all sizes of solar systems & solar pumping.

If anybody requires more information just send a PM.

[IMHO]

For those interested rkholdinggroup have just installed a 2500 Off Grid system at The Farm, Ban Pok.

At first they connected 1000 watts of panels & 400 AH of battery it run the farm shed etc for 3 days & nights using about 3.5KWH each day the load consisted of a medium size fridge, kettle & rice warmer, small pressure pump, TV & a few lights. As no body lives there they left 46 watts of lights on & the TV over night in the morning the batteries still had over 50 to 75% left.

Next they connected more panels & batteries to make 2500 watts & 800 AH of batteries at first the panels were at 7degrees were not making enough power for what was required the panels were then raised to 30 degrees production then increased by 30% in early morning & later afternoon during peak production period of 10 AM to 2.30 PM production increased by 40%.

The load consists of the farm shed as above plus a 1000 watt submersible pump which pumps 6000 plus liters an hour, it has run for up to 8 hours a day, as a test it was run on 2 occasions after sundown from 5.30 PM to 9.30 PM batteries were still over 50%, this is a good indication that instead of the pump it could handle a small house with 1 air conditioner. This system could be increased to 3250 watts of panels & 1200 AH of batteries. On average the farm is using 8 KWH a day peak use was 3 days ago of 11 KWH it was the first day in about 2 weeks with little cloud cover.

It is worth remembering at this time of the year the sun is way down south so not peak production time.

They have all sizes of solar systems & solar pumping.

If anybody requires more information just send a PM.

The thing with batteries is, if you want them to last you can't ever go below 50% charge - so in your example, that battery bank (800Ah) is still only good for about 4kWh, which could run a small 9000 BTU AC for only 5-6 hours.

You haven't mentioned the battery bank voltage, but I'm hoping it's not all just in parallel (12V), otherwise those batteries aren't going to last very long

[Dibbler]

For those interested rkholdinggroup have just installed a 2500 Off Grid system at The Farm, Ban Pok.

At first they connected 1000 watts of panels & 400 AH of battery it run the farm shed etc for 3 days & nights using about 3.5KWH each day the load consisted of a medium size fridge, kettle & rice warmer, small pressure pump, TV & a few lights. As no body lives there they left 46 watts of lights on & the TV over night in the morning the batteries still had over 50 to 75% left.

Next they connected more panels & batteries to make 2500 watts & 800 AH of batteries at first the panels were at 7degrees were not making enough power for what was required the panels were then raised to 30 degrees production then increased by 30% in early morning & later afternoon during peak production period of 10 AM to 2.30 PM production increased by 40%.

The load consists of the farm shed as above plus a 1000 watt submersible pump which pumps 6000 plus liters an hour, it has run for up to 8 hours a day, as a test it was run on 2 occasions after sundown from 5.30 PM to 9.30 PM batteries were still over 50%, this is a good indication that instead of the pump it could handle a small house with 1 air conditioner. This system could be increased to 3250 watts of panels & 1200 AH of batteries. On average the farm is using 8 KWH a day peak use was 3 days ago of 11 KWH it was the first day in about 2 weeks with little cloud cover.

It is worth remembering at this time of the year the sun is way down south so not peak production time.

They have all sizes of solar systems & solar pumping.

If anybody requires more information just send a PM.

The thing with batteries is, if you want them to last you can't ever go below 50% charge - so in your example, that battery bank (800Ah) is still only good for about 4kWh, which could run a small 9000 BTU AC for only 5-6 hours.

You haven't mentioned the battery bank voltage, but I'm hoping it's not all just in parallel (12V), otherwise those batteries aren't going to last very long

How would the Tesla Powerwall shape up as an alternative to a battery bank? They may not be available yet in Thailand but presumably might be in future? Now available in Australia and the first installation was done recently in Sydney. Looks like a good system for use with 4 or 5kWh systems.

[BHW]

To answer some queries brought up about solar at The Farm.

The batteries can be configured either 24 or 48 volt.

The inverter can be sent so batteries are not discharged below a certian value, this system is 60% then grid power cane take over if needed, batteries can last 8 plus years if managed carefully like never under 50%.

There are other types of battery systems other than Telsa also Lithium but the costs are at least 3 times as much. The forecasters say in time they will come down then may be an option. Who know's what the technology will be in 5 years even 1 year.

[IMHO]

For those interested rkholdinggroup have just installed a 2500 Off Grid system at The Farm, Ban Pok.

At first they connected 1000 watts of panels & 400 AH of battery it run the farm shed etc for 3 days & nights using about 3.5KWH each day the load consisted of a medium size fridge, kettle & rice warmer, small pressure pump, TV & a few lights. As no body lives there they left 46 watts of lights on & the TV over night in the morning the batteries still had over 50 to 75% left.

Next they connected more panels & batteries to make 2500 watts & 800 AH of batteries at first the panels were at 7degrees were not making enough power for what was required the panels were then raised to 30 degrees production then increased by 30% in early morning & later afternoon during peak production period of 10 AM to 2.30 PM production increased by 40%.

The load consists of the farm shed as above plus a 1000 watt submersible pump which pumps 6000 plus liters an hour, it has run for up to 8 hours a day, as a test it was run on 2 occasions after sundown from 5.30 PM to 9.30 PM batteries were still over 50%, this is a good indication that instead of the pump it could handle a small house with 1 air conditioner. This system could be increased to 3250 watts of panels & 1200 AH of batteries. On average the farm is using 8 KWH a day peak use was 3 days ago of 11 KWH it was the first day in about 2 weeks with little cloud cover.

It is worth remembering at this time of the year the sun is way down south so not peak production time.

They have all sizes of solar systems & solar pumping.

If anybody requires more information just send a PM.

The thing with batteries is, if you want them to last you can't ever go below 50% charge - so in your example, that battery bank (800Ah) is still only good for about 4kWh, which could run a small 9000 BTU AC for only 5-6 hours.

You haven't mentioned the battery bank voltage, but I'm hoping it's not all just in parallel (12V), otherwise those batteries aren't going to last very long

How would the Tesla Powerwall shape up as an alternative to a battery bank? They may not be available yet in Thailand but presumably might be in future? Now available in Australia and the first installation was done recently in Sydney. Looks like a good system for use with 4 or 5kWh systems.

The Tesla Power Wall *is* a battery bank - it just has a charger built in. I did the math before, and I'd need 3-4 of them to get off the grid...

LifePo4 batteries are shaping up to be the best replacement for lead acid so far.

[IMHO]

Comparing the powerwall to deep cycle lead acid..

The powerwall is rated to a usable capacity of 7000Wh - which means it's probably a 10,000Wh bank run to 70% DOD.

In order to replicate this capacity using lead acid, we'd need 14,000Wh of batteries or more (max 50% DOD).

A 200Ah 12V deep cycle lead acid costs about 7500 Baht, and is good for 2400 Wh - so 6 of them would be 14,400 Wh and cost 45,000 Baht (giving you up to 7,200Wh usable capacity).At 1/3rd the price of a powerwall, this still makes the most sense if you have to do something right now, IMHO.

Logic says that by the time this 45K Baht bank needs replacing, tech has gone up and prices have come down, a lot.

[Gary A]

I have two small off grid solar systems. One is at home. we often have main power outages. I had a small UPS that allowed me to shut down my computer without losing anything but it was too small to run the computer for more than about 15 minutes. When it died, I bought a much larger UPS. It would run the computer for an hour or so. I replaced the two batteries once and it finally died. At that point I decided that solar power would be better for me. I started out with one 310 watt panel and one 65 AH sealed AGM battery. The charge controller and inverter were large enough to allow me to expand the system. I ended up with a second panel and three more AGM sealed batteries. This system runs my computer, printer, lights and a fan from morning until I go to bed in the evening. As mentioned by another poster, I never allow my batteries to go below fifty percent discharge. After about three years everything still works and I have had no problems. It serves my needs very well, my computer is off the grid and I have no outages, surges, electrical spikes or lightening strikes to worry about.

The other system is at the farm which is off the electrical grid. That system is almost exactly the same except I have two 125 AH flooded batteries. That system runs a TV, satellite dish, lights and a fan. It can also run a small household water pump when water is needed. It too has never had any problems other than topping the batteries with water when needed. The sealed AGM batteries are about double the price of flooded batteries. I have the sealed batteries at home because they are inside the house. (No fumes).

I would love to have a larger system but we have entirely to many trees. Just a little bit of shade kills the panel output. You have to make sure that the panels have full sun or you will be sorely disappointed. I had no help choosing the components or installing everything. There is a lot of information on the Internet but much of it is crap. You have to find the articles that are accurate. Some guys buy kits and suddenly become solar experts.

Added - Two important things are that you should buy a good MPPT charger. That converts extra voltage to amperage that charges the batteries. Without a good charge controller, you lose a lot of power from the panels. The second is to buy a pure sine wave inverter. Cheaper modified sine wave inverters may damage some appliances or electronic gadgets.

[Gary A]

The government talks green power but it appears that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. I know a guy near Udon Thani who applied for the necessary permits and went ahead and installed the rather large system himself. His application was denied and the PEA raised all sorts of hell with him. They forced him to pay what his average bill had been before his grid tie system went online. He did use components that were approved by the government, which I am sure were massively overpriced. He was stuck with a grid tie system that was useless. I talked to him at length and he finally bought a huge battery bank to be able to use the system off grid. After he was denied, they came and installed a meter that cannot turn backwards. Since then he has bought an inverter that senses his battery bank voltage and it automatically switches to the grid when the battery voltage is too low. I should add that this guy is educated in electronics. It has worked out pretty much OK for him but he spent a pile of money that he had not planned on and he feels cheated by not being able to sell the excess electricity.

[Dibbler]

At the end of the day Thailand is a developing country with third world country government bureaucracy whose public servants are not motivated to assist members of the public so we can't expect cutting edge energy technology and systems to be integrated seamlessly with the existing grid system.

[Crossy]

The government talks green power but it appears that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. I know a guy near Udon Thani who applied for the necessary permits and went ahead and installed the rather large system himself. His application was denied and the PEA raised all sorts of hell with him. They forced him to pay what his average bill had been before his grid tie system went online. He did use components that were approved by the government, which I am sure were massively overpriced. He was stuck with a grid tie system that was useless. I talked to him at length and he finally bought a huge battery bank to be able to use the system off grid. After he was denied, they came and installed a meter that cannot turn backwards. Since then he has bought an inverter that senses his battery bank voltage and it automatically switches to the grid when the battery voltage is too low. I should add that this guy is educated in electronics. It has worked out pretty much OK for him but he spent a pile of money that he had not planned on and he feels cheated by not being able to sell the excess electricity.

Worrying.

Was the system big enough that he became a net-exporter of power? This does seem to raise the hackles of PEA when it comes to grid-tie.

Was any reason given for denying the application (was it under the My Solar Roof project or something else)?

Possibly the fact that he did it DIY was the killer, the paperwork that AmornSolar (or their installers) provide for PEA approval is fairly comprehensive. See earlier in this thread.

[Gary A]

&amp;nbsp;

The government talks green power but it appears that the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing. I know a guy near Udon Thani who applied for the necessary permits and went ahead and installed the rather large system himself. His application was denied and the PEA raised all sorts of hell with him. They forced him to pay what his average bill had been before his grid tie system went online. He did use components that were approved by the government, which I am sure were massively overpriced. He was stuck with a grid tie system that was useless. I talked to him at length and he finally bought a huge battery bank to be able to use the system off grid. After he was denied, they came and installed a meter that cannot turn backwards. Since then he has bought an inverter that senses his battery bank voltage and it automatically switches to the grid when the battery voltage is too low. I should add that this guy is educated in electronics. It has worked out pretty much OK for him but he spent a pile of money that he had not planned on and he feels cheated by not being able to sell the excess electricity.

Worrying.

Was the system big enough that he became a net-exporter of power? This does seem to raise the hackles of PEA when it comes to grid-tie.

Was any reason given for denying the application (was it under the My Solar Roof project or something else)?

Possibly the fact that he did it DIY was the killer, the paperwork that AmornSolar (or their installers) provide for PEA approval is fairly comprehensive. See earlier in this thread.

&amp;nbsp;

If I remember correctly, he bought 16 280 watt panels from Amorn. That gave him more power than he could use during the sunshine hours. His installation was before Amorn offered much help. I do remember that he was having a difficult time finding components that were on the government approved list. The components that he had to use were much more expensive than was available from other reliable suppliers. I don't think they even bothered to inspect his system.

[Issangeorge]

Hobbit, any chance of an update on how the system is working?

[Issangeorge]

Hobbit, any chance of an update on how the system is working?

Sorry auto correct took over, I meant "GinBoy2.

[GinBoy2]

Well from the Hobbit to Middle Earth....all is working great